Professor .....and student
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The Professor
"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"
"Yes, sir."
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God is good."
"Is God all powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."
The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would if we could...God doesn't."
-No answer.
"He doesn't does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"
-No answer.
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"
"Err...Yes."
"Is Satan good?"
"No."
"Where does Satan come from?"
The student falters. "From...God..."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking student audience. "I think we're going to have a good semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there any evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"
"Yes."
"Who created evil?"
(No answer)
"Is there sickness in this world? Ugliness, immorality, hatred? All the terrible things--do they exist in this world?
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."
"Who created them?"
(No answer.)
The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created them, didn't he?"
(No answer.)
The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "how is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?"
The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"
(No answer.)
"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"
(No answer.)
"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, Professor, I do."
The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Jesus?"
"No, sir, I've never seen Him."
"Then tell us, have you ever heard your Jesus?"
"No, sir, I have not."
"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled your Jesus...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"
(No answer.)
"Answer me, please."
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"You're AFRAID you haven't?"
"No, sir."
"Yet you still believe in Him?"
"...yes..."
"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God does not exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"
The student does not answer.
"Sit down, please."
The Christian sits...defeated. -
Continued....
Another student raises his hand.
"Professor, may I address the class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."
The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies, "there's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very quiet.
The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat, or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further than that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than negative 458--you see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, it's just the absence of it."
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at?"
"So you 'believe' in darkness?"
"Yes."
"I'm sorry, but science says you're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly, you have nothing, and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give it to me in a jar. But you can't give me a jar of darker darkness, can you Professor?"
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This would indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes,! professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must be in error..."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"
The class is all ears.
"Explain...oh, explain." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains, "that, for example, there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing God as a concept, as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor, who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, Professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"
"Of course, there is, now look..."
"Again, I'm sorry sir, but you are wrong. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such a thing as injustice? No, injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?"
The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"
The professor's face has turned an alarming shade of red. He is so angry, he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, Professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us that it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good (the result of the love of God) over evil the result of independence or the absence of the love of God). "There is nothing greater than love. God is love and God is good. If He is good, then the innate act of his goodness would be to give man the opportunity to experience the greatest thing that exists -- love. But love cannot be forced on someone or else it is not love. There must be a choice involved. God loved us enough to allow us to make the choice. Evil is the result of the choice of independence from God."
The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this matter as having anything to do with choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."
"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies, "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir, or are you placing your 'faith' in the unobservable?"
The professor makes a sucking noise with his teeth and gives the student a silent, stony stare.
"Professor, since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an ongoing endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
The student replies: "May I follow up on the point you were making earlier to the other student?"
The professor wisely keeps silent.
"I believe you have a great mind Professor, but with all respect let me ask the class a question regarding it. Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's great mind... felt the professor's mind, touched or smelled the professor's mind?"
The class remains silent.
"No one appears to have done so. No one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever.
"While I would not dare to imply it myself, but wouldn't the limitations of what you 'believe in' (the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable, protocol, science) say that you have no mind? Wouldn't the same apply to your emotions and your will? "I believe your great mind is hidden within your brain although I cannot observe it within the small box, or within the limited parameters which you want to place God within.
"If I want to know your mind or better yet the real you (your mind, emotions, will and even your spirit), all I have to do, if you are willing to be known, is be willing to seek to know you and to spend time with you.
"You can know that God exists, .... if you are willing ... Are you willing Professor?"
Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence
The bell rings.
"Class dismissed," replies the professor. "Time is up!
Author Unknown -
The point being?
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Originally posted by jlm:
The student's points are fundamentally flawed.
[b]Continued....
Another student raises his hand.
"Professor, may I address the class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."
The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies, "there's heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very quiet.
The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat, or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further than that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than negative 458--you see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, it's just the absence of it."
Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.
"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at?"
"So you 'believe' in darkness?"
"Yes."
"I'm sorry, but science says you're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly, you have nothing, and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give it to me in a jar. But you can't give me a jar of darker darkness, can you Professor?"
Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This would indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes,! professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must be in error..."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"
The class is all ears.
"Explain...oh, explain." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains, "that, for example, there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing God as a concept, as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."
The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor, who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, Professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"
"Of course, there is, now look..."
"Again, I'm sorry sir, but you are wrong. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such a thing as injustice? No, injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?"
The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"
The professor's face has turned an alarming shade of red. He is so angry, he is temporarily speechless.
The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, Professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us that it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good (the result of the love of God) over evil the result of independence or the absence of the love of God). "There is nothing greater than love. God is love and God is good. If He is good, then the innate act of his goodness would be to give man the opportunity to experience the greatest thing that exists -- love. But love cannot be forced on someone or else it is not love. There must be a choice involved. God loved us enough to allow us to make the choice. Evil is the result of the choice of independence from God."
The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this matter as having anything to do with choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."
"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies, "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir, or are you placing your 'faith' in the unobservable?"
The professor makes a sucking noise with his teeth and gives the student a silent, stony stare.
"Professor, since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an ongoing endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
The student replies: "May I follow up on the point you were making earlier to the other student?"
The professor wisely keeps silent.
"I believe you have a great mind Professor, but with all respect let me ask the class a question regarding it. Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's great mind... felt the professor's mind, touched or smelled the professor's mind?"
The class remains silent.
"No one appears to have done so. No one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever.
"While I would not dare to imply it myself, but wouldn't the limitations of what you 'believe in' (the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable, protocol, science) say that you have no mind? Wouldn't the same apply to your emotions and your will? "I believe your great mind is hidden within your brain although I cannot observe it within the small box, or within the limited parameters which you want to place God within.
"If I want to know your mind or better yet the real you (your mind, emotions, will and even your spirit), all I have to do, if you are willing to be known, is be willing to seek to know you and to spend time with you.
"You can know that God exists, .... if you are willing ... Are you willing Professor?"
Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence Silence
The bell rings.
"Class dismissed," replies the professor. "Time is up!
Author Unknown
[/b]
1) Evolution can be proven through fossils.
2) Evil is not the absence of good
The argument of choosing good over evil reminds of the ongoing casino issue. It's like building a casino but telling Singaporeans not to go. Then what's the point of building it in the first place?
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Well... Let me ask you... Would you deny God if God is already with you and you are prospering in God ? No, you wouldn't right? But why is man seperated from God ? The gospel says, "for all sin and fall short of the glory of God". Sin seperated us from God. But yet, why did Christ have to come and die on the cross, sinless and shamed by the Romans soldiers? John 3:16 says, " For God so loved the world that He gave His begotten Son so that those who believed in Him shall not perish but have eternal life" Did you notice the word "believed" ? Yes, you have to believe in Christ that He had came and will come again for the judgement day. Do you feel that at times, you feel so empty? Feel so left out that you thought the world had crashed onto you? Did you seek God with your heart ? Or did you just push the blame to God and that the problem came because God created the problem ? The scripture says, worship in Spirit and in truth. Did you worship in truth or did you plainly worship by mumbling some words ? Did you ever uphold the things into God's hands and ask God to take control of everything? Well, if you have not experience God's love for you, are you ready to accept God, as He had called upon us as His childrens? God always forgives us when we seek His forgiveness. The scriptures also say, "the wages of sin is death". If you do not seek for His forgiveness, you will never experience His love for you. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". Are you ready to accept Christ and ask God to take control of everything in your life? Even God face percecution on earth from man. What makes you think that you will be perfect if you have God ? Even you will be tested, put to trial and faces percecution from people on earth. But are you ready to take up the cross and follow Jesus? "Whoever try to save his life will lose it, but those who lose his life for me will save it" Are you ready to lay down everything for Christ and pick up the cross ? God never force the way through. Make the decision with all your heart and soul. God is always there, but are you ready ? Are you ready to open the door of your heart and say "Jesus, take over my life" ? If you feel the words tugging at your heart, don't deny Him anymore. Pray a simple prayer and you will live a new life in Christ. Pray this prayer if you have decided."Dear Jesus, I know that you came to die for me. I know that while I'm a sinner, you set me free. Today, I want to ask you to come into my life. Lead me on from now onwards. In Jesus Name I pray, Amen." Now, with this prayer, you are new believer in Christ, you had entered God's everlasting kingdom. You now live not for what you want, nor what you are. You are living for God. Remember, even if you do not want to make a decision, it's still a decision made not to follow Him.
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wah qim qim
Anyway.. i love satan -
well.. u can love stanyou want.. it's still your decision..
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Obviously the professor does not believe in Karma...
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This whole professor student thing makes no sense.. lol
How can there be good without evil?
If there's no good, what is evil?
If there's no evil, then what is good? -
oh..im in wrong forum...i tot i can see many pretty girls here..
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i believe in karma... haha...
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Without evil as a foil there is no good. The student is wrong, the proffesor is stupid. So in anycase the writer is bias and bianess will bring ignorance which will breed more ignorance. It is OBVIOUS that the carbon decay dattings prove that the EARTH is created billions of years ago than the Christian believe that it was merely 4000 years old. The Bible is wrong!
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We will never know.
But there has to be something that created something out of us. -
K, if u say so this will nv end. Becos something have to create that thing to create us and so on....
Why are preachers everywhere???
People do good from heart. Why in Christianity is there punishment? It only creates a fear that causes ppl to do good.
And anything done in our mortal realm is finite. WHY is the punishment infinite or eternal?
If there was ever a God he should leave us on our own... -
religions are but a light of hope and faith for people to believe in
they receive comfort by praying to their gods and in turn receives the hope of being able to accomplish a certain task.
those who hv said to receive ans or mircales frm abv believe in god, but those who did not, don't
thou sci does not say god exist, but physics can prove that there is a 4th dimension, but isnt it impossible to hv other dimensions? it is a contradicting world and we live in a paradox. so who is to say god exists and dont, good or evil? -
One thing puzzles me, Adam and Eve are the only 2 person created, so when they reproduce there is only 1 race.. How we end up with so many races if we believe in the creationist theory and the the Darwin's theory?
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Same-sameOriginally posted by alexkusu:oh..im in wrong forum...i tot i can see many pretty girls here..
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I hate people who comes in, drops a thread, and goes off without a trace.
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God after creating Adam and Eve, they sin and God make them to go through the suffering of giving birth. The off springs of them were spread throughout the earth by God and some of them turned away from God. Thus the issue of many races.Originally posted by darkhatebed:One thing puzzles me, Adam and Eve are the only 2 person created, so when they reproduce there is only 1 race.. How we end up with so many races if we believe in the creationist theory and the the Darwin's theory? -
Preacher are everywhere cos God gave the commandment, " Go and make disciple of man". In Christianity, punishment is about broken relationship with God. The commandment is already there, "Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind." Thus, it's God's commandment that we love Him and not have a broken relationship with Him by denying Christ. Lastly, punishment in hell is according to how you lived. There will be different degrees of seperation, isoliation and emptiness in hell. And hell is a seperation and banishment from God. Does all these answers your question ? God did leave you on your own. Whether you decide to pick up the cross and follow Jesus anotx if on your own decission. God didn't force His way through your life. How you explain God forcing His way through your life ?Originally posted by darkhatebed:K, if u say so this will nv end. Becos something have to create that thing to create us and so on....
Why are preachers everywhere???
People do good from heart. Why in Christianity is there punishment? It only creates a fear that causes ppl to do good.
And anything done in our mortal realm is finite. WHY is the punishment infinite or eternal?
If there was ever a God he should leave us on our own... -
Wait a minute, how do you know the bible say that the earth is 4000 years old ? And the dinosaurs that were found, is also animals right ? God created man and animals too !Originally posted by darkhatebed:Without evil as a foil there is no good. The student is wrong, the proffesor is stupid. So in anycase the writer is bias and bianess will bring ignorance which will breed more ignorance. It is OBVIOUS that the carbon decay dattings prove that the EARTH is created billions of years ago than the Christian believe that it was merely 4000 years old. The Bible is wrong! -
da truth is...da professor is dumb la...he ask dis kind of question seemed juvenile and in despo denial of religion. da whole prof-student thing is a stage up at "how to answer to da average non-believer answer".
sorli ah..i dun believe in god..i like my kwanyin more. -
So Adam & Eve are monkeys huh? LOL
& btw... seems like alot of the forum users are smarter than the prof. ...
This source is obviously one-sided...
*Though i'm not a believer of god but i dun hate cristianity...
I believe cai shen... lOlx give me wealth -
finally, a thread that makes people think. i believe that God exists, but isn't 'evil' created by man from the 'bad' things they do?