China says 400 million can't speak national language
-
What about Singapore? Singapore national language is malay.
-
In China, protests underscore a rift over dialects
Beijing's proposal to switch television broadcasts to official Mandarin sparks anger in Cantonese-speaking regions. The dispute goes to the heart of Chinese identity.
Reporting from Beijing — In Guangzhou, the city formerly known as Canton, Chinese government banners hang in primary schools with instructions to use the country's official language, Mandarin, also known as Putonghua:
"Speak Putonghua, write standard Chinese, use civilized language, be a civilized person."
But residents of the city, the capital of one of China's proudest Cantonese-speaking regions, recently marched by the hundreds to protest a new government proposal to switch television broadcasts from the local dialect to Mandarin ahead of the multi-sport Asian Games scheduled for November in Guangzhou.
"Protect our mother tongue!" some Guangzhou residents shouted. "Get lost, Mandarin!"
On the same day, about 200 people marched in Hong Kong, where Cantonese is the official Chinese tongue, converging on government headquarters. A week earlier, nearly 1,000 people in Guangzhou had blocked a subway station to show their opposition to the proposed change in television broadcasts.
For years Cantonese speakers in southern China have complained that local culture is being eroded under orders from Beijing, where Mandarin dominates. The recent protests highlight a traditional rivalry between north and south as well as the government's efforts to bring the country under one language, local residents and experts say.
Cantonese — as the second most spoken dialect in China and until recently the language most common among Chinese living abroad — has long been a key part of Chinese culture.
Generations of Cantonese-speaking immigrants built America's first Chinatowns and introduced dim sum, chop suey and Bruce Lee (the martial artist and film star was born in San Francisco but mostly grew up in China).
As more Mandarin-speaking migrants from other parts of China move into Guangzhou and other Chinese communities across the world, Cantonese is becoming less prominent, analysts and experts say. And the government is speeding up the process, they say.
"Putonghua taking over local dialects is a movement we have seen for some time now," said Cheris Shun-ching Chan, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of Hong Kong.
Students in Guangzhou have been penalized for speaking Cantonese, and teachers must pass a Mandarin proficiency exam. Many employers also check whether potential hires can speak Mandarin. Fewer than half of the 12 million people in the city speak Cantonese.
The two dialects feature significant differences. Cantonese has 59 vowel sounds, twice as many as Mandarin's 23. Cantonese also has nine tones, compared to Mandarin's four. For these reasons, Cantonese is considered by some as richer and more specific. Some linguists say that it's actually a wholly separate language and not just a dialect of Chinese.
"This conflict is about local language, but it is also about a form of political struggle," said Chan, emphasizing that national political power is concentrated in the north.
Some historians and many residents of Guangdong province say Cantonese was nearly adopted as the country's official language when the Republic of China was founded in 1912. Sun Yat-sen, the leader of China's Nationalist movement, was from Guangdong. The province, having been the only region open to trade with the West, was the country's most prosperous.
But eventually, after the communist revolution, standard Mandarin became China's national language.
According to state media, government authorities proposed using Mandarin for broadcasts of the Asian Games as a way to "forge a good language environment" and cater to non-Cantonese-speaking Chinese visitors to Guangzhou. News and primetime shows would also be in Mandarin.
Local residents worry that such a switch would punish older Guangzhou residents who have never learned Mandarin.
Chun Yunian, a graduate student at Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou, said the older generation has often complained that the young people of Guangzhou don't care about their culture and are always looking up to foreign cultures.
"Now, they're proving they do care," she said. "It's like they've all woken up."
Kuo is with The Times' Beijing Bureau. Tommy Yang contributed to this report.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/08/world/la-fg-china-dialects-20100809
"Now, they're proving they do care," she said. "It's like they've all woken up."
-
The language that is best suited to the kids is their mother tongue.
So Cantonese would be better off speaking Cantonese, Teochew would be better off speaking Teochew, Malays would be better off speaking Malay, whatever
Instead of asking people to learn non-mother tongue languages to be pretended as the real mother tongue ah
-
Dun worry the world is now suck into the little pc on their hands.
-
Yes and No to it.
2 sides to a coin ..........
-
Good evening Penghulu and Pengawal
Singapore is also following the footsteps of China to eradicate all dialects at all cost
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%8E%A8%E5%B9%BF%E6%99%AE%E9%80%9A%E8%AF%9D#.E5.BB.A3.E8.A5.BF
(I broke them down into points for easier reading and underline for highlight sake)
Example 1:
廣西
廣西自�就是多語言多方言的地�，從廣�傳來的粵語曾影響甚大。
- 後來，廣西自治å�€æ”¿åºœè‡´åŠ›ä½¿ç”¨è¡Œæ”¿æ‰‹æ®µåœ¨æ�±å�—部多個城市實行「推普ã€�政ç–，
- 在1996年率先把å�—寧市和梧州市公共汽車的å�—å¯§ç™½è©±ï¼ˆç²µèªžçš„åˆ†æ”¯ï¼‰å ±ç«™å�–消，
- å�—寧電視å�°ã€�é›»å�°ç‰åª’體全部ç¦�æ¢ç²µèªžï¼Œä½¿æ°‘眾在媒體廣æ’æ–¹é�¢ä¹Ÿæ²’有了å�¯ä»¥å€Ÿé‘’的語言環境。
- å�—寧當局也在å¸æ ¡å’Œå·¥ä½œå–®ä½�內宣傳說方言「粗鄙ã€�，使用普通話「文明ã€�。
- 在2001å¹´å�–消å�—寧市和2002å¹´å�–消北海市（市å�€ï¼‰çš„廣æ�±é›»è¦–å�°ç� æ±Ÿé »é�“（ç� 江å�°ï¼‰ã€‚
- 2010年底，廣西電å�°ç¶“濟廣æ’å·²æ’出18年粵語白話節目被完全å�–消。
- 2012å¹´10月，ç� 江å�°åœ¨æ¢§å·žå¸‚被廣電總局ç¦�æ’。
- å�Œå¹´12月28日起，廣西部分地å�€æœ‰ç·šé›»è¦–ä¸çš„廣æ�±å�—方電視å�°è¡›æ˜Ÿé »é�“（TVS-2）亦çª�然å�œæ’。
- ç�¾åœ¨åœ¨å»£è¥¿æ�±å�—部粵語å�€ï¼Œç²µèªžå·²ç¶“被邊緣化，çœ�府å�—寧的粵語已經æˆ�為瀕å�±èªžè¨€ï¼Œå�–而代之的是帶有粵語ã€�壯話混雜å�£éŸ³çš„「å�—寧普通話ã€�。而å�—寧最本土的方言在普通話和粵語的雙é‡�æ‰“å£“ä¸‹ï¼Œæ›´åŠ è¢«é‚Šç·£åŒ–ã€‚
The PRC government is doing all that it can, a step at a time to cut-off all links to Cantonese being used in Guangxi, Nanning.
It has accelerated in the recent 2 years owing to pressure from the Central Party wanting to clamp down on all dialects and only allowing Putonghua in all spheres of life.
Other Examples:
- Guangzhou (See 2010 reports and 2012 reports on wiping out Cantonese)
- Shanghai (See 2012 reports & Youtube on why they need to revive Shanghainese in extra-curricular school activities and how Government stepped in to restrict Shanghainese in media again to curb Shanghainese)
- Xiamen (Search Google on 2012 Preservation Exercise of Hokkien as Intangible Heritage)
- Quanzhou (Search Youtube on recent revival in kindergarten level to speak Hokkien)
- Chaozhou (From Teochew Dictionary, Preface: 一直以來，我å°�潮汕地å�€å°�å¸ç”Ÿæ½®å·žè©±èªžè¨€èƒ½åŠ›çš„退化深以爲慮。æ�®äº†è§£ï¼Œç›®å‰�潮汕地å�€æœ‰éƒ¨åˆ†å°�å¸ç”Ÿåœ¨å¸æ ¡è£�是è�¼ä¸�到也ä¸�能講潮州話的，由æ¤å¸¶ä¾†çš„å•�題是，相當部分的潮汕å°�å¸ç”Ÿä¸�會講準確ã€�æµ�利而å�ˆç”Ÿå‹•çš„潮州話å�£èªžï¼Œè€Œå�ªæœƒæ‹—è‘—å�£ï¼Œç”¨æ½®å·žè©±çš„讀音念著既åƒ�是普通話書é�¢èªžè€Œå�ˆå¤¾é›œè‘—潮州話特點的å�Šæ–‡ä¸�白的毫無生氣的“硬诔的書é�¢æ½®å·žè©±ï¼Œã€‚。。)
- Fuzhou (The worst situation of all in Fujian Province now. Search for Google all recent reports that only 30% of youngsters can speak Hockchew)
Also you may visit my previous post as some sort of reference:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/399157?page=6#post_9805246
-
Soon all will disappear along with the heritages that each dialects have.
-
What to do?
If Singaporean Hokkien disappears, there is no point to learn the full Standard Amoy Hokkien also, although it is still better than nothing. It will never be able to replace the status of Singaporean Hokkien because Singaporean Hokkien has evolved separately due to its geographical position and history.
Example:
I have been speaking of "mor-peng" (IPA: mɔ˨˩ peŋ˦) since I started speaking Hokkien as a child.
Only very recently (last 2 month) I got to know this word is originated from the Malay languages (so as not to pinpoint any Malay dialect in specific because I am not sure), bopeng, same meaning.
-
not sure about this one could be the other way round as many Malay (predominantly in early Indonesia) adapt Hokkien into their usage.
-
You are right.
In at least 5 of the sources below, it is mentioned that the Malay bopeng could have been adopted from Chinese dialect (indicatively Hokkien).
Source 1:
ã€Šæ–°åŠ å�¡é—½å�—è¯�è¯�典》 (2002, 周长楫ã€�周清海编)
http://www.huayuqiao.org/articles/zhouqinghai/mnhcd.htm
contains entries 1) 麻� mɔ peŋ and 2) 麻�的 mɔ peŋ e
The entry 麻ç™�çš„ mÉ” peÅ‹ e (meaning pockmarked-face person) specially indicates "Malay also uses the word borrowed from Hokkien" and points to the source as 《现代马æ�¥è¯è¯�å…¸ : å�Žé©¬å�Œè§£ã€‹ (Kamus istilah baru bahasa Malaysia)
which leads to Source 2.
Source 2:
《现代马æ�¥è¯è¯�å…¸ : å�Žé©¬å�Œè§£ã€‹ Kamus istilah baru bahasa Malaysia (1984,æ�¨è´µè°Šã€�陈妙å�Žç¼–)
http://elib.uum.edu.my/kip/Record/um78329
Source 3:
《马å�Žè‹±è¯æ–‡è¯�典》 Kamus bahasa Malaysia, Tionghoa, Inggeris (1982, Lutfi Abasã€� æ�Žç»�隆ã€� 颜佳黛编)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/11822441?q&versionId=13929232
contains entry 1) bopeng = 麻��麻斑
Source 4:
Book version:《Loan-words in Indonesian / Malay》 (2007,Russell Jones)
Online version: http://www.sealang.net/lwim/
contains entry
bopéng
1 pock-marked (doubtful entry)
CF: mopéng
ETY: Amoy? 麻斑 mô·pan Campbell1914:492 CDxxxx:358aSource 5:
《Chinese Loan-words in Indonesian / Malay》 (2009,Russell Jones)
http://www.penangbookshelf.com/servlet/the-1103/Chinese-Loan-dsh-Words-in-Malay/Detail
contains entry exactly as above Source 4 as well.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
However, I tend to differ from the opinions of the above authors. Through my independent observations, I am inclined to believe that Hokkien "mor-peng" was otherwised adopted from Malay dialects.
Why is this so?
There are 3 points that I observed:
Point 1:
In the few authoritative Hokkien dictionaries published by Chinese linguists, the lack of the entry "mor-peng" is indeed very surprising.
It is not found in the below dictionaries at all:
〖闽�方言大�典〗- 周长楫
〖普通�闽�方言常用�典〗 - 林��
〖A Practical English-Hokkien Dictionary〗- Chiang Ker ChiuEspecially 〖A Practical English-Hokkien Dictionary〗written by a Singaporean Local (year unknown - before 1960s) who practically will avoid any local colloqualisms, it gives the entry for "pockmarked" not as "mor-peng" but only as "niau ~ ~" etc.
See this old post: http://sgforums.com/forums/2029/topics/355579#post_9014309
Point 2:
Assuming that Hokkien "mor-peng" loaned the word into Malay dialects, how did it became bopeng?
Thus, we shall use the list from 《Chinese Loan-words in Indonesian / Malay》 (2009,Russell Jones) to look at a list of supposedly Chinese dialects>Malay words starting with "b-" and check the probability for the occurrence of the change from the Chinese dialects "m-" to Malay "b-" :---
01. bacang / bakcang (â—„ bah tsang) = dumpling
02. bak (â—„ bak) = ink
03. bak (â—„ bah) = pork / meat
04. bakcat-hi (â—„ bak tsat hi) = cuttlefish
05. bakhi (â—„ bak hiN) = inkstone
06. bakhu (â—„ bah hu) = porkfloss
07. bakiak (â—„ bak kiah) = clogs
08. bakmi / bami (â—„ bah mi) = meat noodles
09. bakpao / bapao (â—„ bah pau) = stuff pork pau
10. bakpia (â—„ bah piaN) = mung bean pie
11. baksat / bangsat / batsat / basat (â—„ bak sat) = bedbug
12. bakso / baso (â—„ bah so) = meatballs
13. baktau / batau (â—„ ba thau) = brothel lady boss
14. bakwan (â—„ bah oan) = pork balls
15. ban (â—„ ban) = ten thousand
16. banci (â—„ man tsik) = census
17. bangking (â—„ bang kheng) = round lacquer box for clothes storage
18. banji (â—„ ban ji) = swastika pattern
19. banpihong (â—„ ban pi hong) = children disease
20. bansun (â—„ ban sun) = dried bamboo rhizomes
21. beca / becak (â—„ be chhia) = pedicab
22. begeko / beleko (â—„ beh le ko) = glutinous syrup
23. beh (â—„ be) = horse
24. behke (â—„ beh ke) = shellfish
25. beko (â—„ bi ko) = ricecakes
26. beng (â—„ peng) = ice
27. benteng (â—„ peng thng) = sugar candy
28. bepa / bepang / bipang (â—„ bi phang) = rice/sugar cake
29. besai / bisae (â—„ be sai) = can't be done
30. bi (â—„ bi) = frill / fringe
31. bihun (â—„ bi hun) = vermicelli
32. bike (â—„ bi kheh) = rice merchant
33. bimpo (â—„ bin po) = face towel
34. binkok (â—„ bin kok) = republic of china
35. bio (â—„ bio) = temple
36. biokong (â—„ bio kong) = temple-in-charge
37. bo / boh (â—„ bo) = small handmill
38. boanciu (â—„ boan chiu) = manchuria
39. boanseng (â—„ boan seng) = I
40. boceng (â—„ bo cheng) = ungrateful
41. bocengli (â—„ bo cheng li) = unreasonable
42. bocuan (â—„ bo tsoan) = without profit
43. boeh / boek (â—„ boeh) = socks
44. bohsia (â—„ bo siaN) = pleasure-loving girl
45. bohuat (â—„ bo hoat) = cannot manage it
46. bojinceng (â—„ bo jin cheng) = ungrateful
47. bokci (â—„ pok se) = a temple
48. bokji / bokni (â—„ bok ji / bok ni) = edible black/white fungus
49. bokongto (â—„ bo kong to) = unfair
50. boksu (â—„ bok su) = pastor
51. bolui (â—„ bo lui) = no money
52. bong (â—„ bong) = tomb
53. bongkok (â—„ bong kok) = national subjugation
54. bongmeh (â—„ bong meh) = feel the pulse
55. bongpai (â—„ bong pai) = tombstone
56. bongsua (â—„ bong soaN) = graveyard
57. bopeng (â—„ mo pan) = pock-marked
58. bopo / bopok (â—„ bo poh) = to be damaged
59. bosengli (â—„ bo seng li) = no business
60. bosiukhi (â—„ bo siu khi) = not to be angry
61. botalo / botaolo (â—„ bo thau lo) = unemployed
62. botan (â—„ bo tan) = peony
63. boto (â—„ bo to) = wicked
64. boyaukin (â—„ bo iau kin) = no matter
65. bucing (â—„ mo tsang) = pigtail
66. bue (â—„ boe) = plum
67. buhiap (â—„ bu hiap) = martial arts
68. bun (â—„ bun) = literature
69. bunbing (â—„ bun beng) = civilised
70. bunki (â—„ bun khi) = decorous
71. bunli (â—„ bun li) = cultivated
72. busu (â—„ bu sut) = martial artsOut of 72 entries from supposed Chinese>Malay loanwords starting with "b-", only 3 entries (4.1%) came from Chinese dialects "m-".
This shows that the Malay language(s) has a tendency to keep the original "b-" from the Chinese dialects as "b-" (95.9%). It happens that both languages have this exact same consonantal sound.
The same tendency shows up for "m-" (about 17 entries) again where the Malay language(s) kept the original "m-" from the Chinese dialects as "m-" (100%). No change is effected because it happens that both languages have the exact same consonantal sound.
I suspect that "mor-peng" as a doubtful entry could be highly possible. (Refer to the above Source 4 classified as a "doubtful entry" by author Russell Jones)
Point 3:
Assuming that Malay bopeng loaned the word into Hokkien, how did it became "mor-peng"?
Thus, we shall use my compiled lists from my old posts:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/440050?page=25#post_10401690
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/440050?page=25#post_10401727
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/440050?page=27#post_10404888
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/440050?page=29#post_10406318
http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/440050?page=29#post_10407125to look at a list of supposedly Malay>Hokkien syllables starting with "m-" or "b-" and check the probability for the occurrence of the change (or retention) from the Malay "b-" to Hokkien "m-" :---
01. Melayu â–º Bu Lai Yu = Malay
02. Mata â–º Ma Ta = Police
03. Baba â–º Ba Ba = Peranakan
04. Bali â–º Ba Li = Ship Cabin
05. Timun â–º Ti Bun = Cucumber
06. Buaya â–º Buah A = Crocodile
07. Belacu â–º Ba Tsu Por = Calico textile
08. Sabun â–º Sap Bun = Soap
09. Makan â–º Ma Kan = Eat (for scolding)
10. Mati â–º Ma Ti = Die (for scolding)
11. Bau â–º Ba U = Smell
12. Jamban â–º Liam Ban = Toilet
13. Babi â–º Ba Bi = Pig (for scolding)
14. Bangsal â–º Bang San = Shed
15. Bicara â–º Bit Tsa La = Trial
16. Botak â–º Bo Tak = Bald
17. Mana â–º Ma La = Where
18. Rambutan â–º Ang Mor Tan = Rambutan
19. Bengali â–º Bang Ka Li / Mang Ka Li = Bengala
20. Lubang â–º Lo Bang = Opportunities
21. Manggis â–º Mang Ngeh = Mangosteen
22. Nangka â–º Bang Ka / Mang Ka = Jackfruit
23. Macam â–º Ma Tsiam = Type
24. Minta â–º Bin Tah = Request
25. Sahabat â–º So Buat = Good friend
26. Malu â–º Ma Lu = Embarassed
27. Balik â–º Ba Leh = Again
28. Barangkali â–º Bang Ka Li / Mang Ka Li = Perhaps
29. Baru â–º Ba Lu = Just
30. Kemenyan â–º Kam Bun Yen = Incense
31. Masak â–º Ma Sah = Toys
32. Bomba â–º Bom Ba = Fire Brigade
33. Sombong â–º Som Bong = Proud
34. Jambu â–º Liam Bu = Jambu
35. Bangkuang â–º Mang Kuang = Yam bean
36. Belacan â–º Ba La Tsien = Belacan
37. Buah Dongdong â–º Bua Long Long = Buah DongdongOut of 37 entries of supposed Malay>Hokkien loanwords, there are
a. 4 Malay syllables having "b-" which changed to Hokkien "m-" (10.8%)
b. 20 Malay syllables having "b-" which retained in Hokkien as "b-" (54.1%)
c. 4 Malay syllables having "m-" which changed to Hokkien "b-" (10.8%)
d. 8 Malay syllables having "m-" which retained in Hokkien as "m-" (21.6%)The Malay>Hokkien loanwords has erratic tendencies to retain or change "b-" to "b-" or to "m-" as well as retain or change "m-" to "m-" or to "b-".
Even though it happens that Hokkien possesses exactly the same type of consonantal sound as Malay, there is no clear correlation between change / no change.
From the above data, we noticed a sharp contrast to Hokkien>Malay loanwords, where we saw previously that the Malay language(s) can retain to almost 95%~100% of the original "b-" as the same "b-", as well as "m-" as the same "m-".
Thus, the Malayic bopeng could highly possibly change to "mor-peng".
This I conclude my findings.
-
Thanks for the probability assessment. However I'm still inclined to Hokkien to Malay for morpeng.
If you read it's a full verse mor-peng tiao-teng you will understand why my reservation.
-
Mor-peng Tiau-teng, could be a local version invented by us right? It just happen to take the rhymes of 2 related metaphors to describe a pockmarked and scarred face.
** Tiau-teng is authentic from China (with dictionary entries even in the Teochew dictionaries) = "eyelid scars"Why I say "mor-peng" is a Malayic term becos it seems very strange that we can only find the term in the peninsular and archipelago languages here. Usually only the Hokkien, Teochew and Hainanese languages are more receptive in absorbing more Malayic terms than the Cantonese and Hakka languages. The Hokkien, Teochew and Hainanese languages also tend more to mutual influence each others too (probably due to their strong similarity in the first place).
That means, I can find "mor-peng" in Singaporean Hokkien, Singaporean Teochew, Penang Hokkien, Malaysian Teochew, Batam Teochew etc. etc.
What is strange is when we stepped out of Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, this "mor-peng" just disappears from other Hokkien and Teochew out there. For example, in the book "泰國的三個漢語方言", Thailand Teochew does not register "mor-peng" instead it registers "huae-ming" (花�).
Needless to say, all those Hokkien dictionaries and Teochew dictionaries published by China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, do not have the entry "mor-peng" at all.I wonder, if "mor-peng" is authentic to the origin, why does it go traceless there and anywhere else, and why is it that it only appears in Singaporean Hokkien, Teochew, Malaysian Hokkien, Teochew, etc.? Obviously it is because these languages came into close contact with the Malayic languages.
-
there can always be a native word adds-on to a loanword.
-
Originally posted by jlowbog:
there can always be a native word adds-on to a loanword.
Ya u r right.
Like Hokkien which already has "niau-bin", it had borrowed from Malayic "bopeng" because they lived side-by-side.
One more which I had left out in the previous lists, because usually nobody talks it and usually it gets unnoticed as well:
Asal â–º A Sa = As long as ; .... provided that ...
Example:
阿洒�有收好勢，著�驚別儂�拾去。
A Sa Li U Siu Ho Se, Tioh Bian KiaN Pat Lang Th'au Kh'eh Ki
As long as you have kept it properly, you do not need to fear it being stolen
You do not need to fear of it being stolen provided you have kept it safelyIt is borrowed from the Malayic languages (highly confirmed to be Peranakan-Baba-Nyonya): Asal , or Asalkan
-
all are losing to the little plastic.
-
Originally posted by Clivebenss:
all are losing to the little plastic.
Hi Penghulu, this is largely true, but only for us Singaporeans.
I don't think I have seen Malaysian-Sarawakian-Chinese stopped speaking Hockchew nor had their Hockchew standards been declining seriously just because they held onto the little plastic (well, a lot of Sarawakians working in Singapore and I can hear them speak in the public as well as workplace).
Same thing for Indonesian-Medanese-Hokkiens do not stop speaking Hokkien just because they are sucked into their little pcs on their hands while on the MRTs. They still speak Hokkien with each other while shopping in the malls, while in the tertiary education institutes (eg. at university), while at workplace.It is purely government policies in Singapore. This has also harmed the Johor Bahru Chinese population dialect standards to drop due to Singapore TV viewership.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I observed these are some new towns (referring to areas around town centres) where the Hokkien language often can still be easily heard (eg. the common language spoken among residents, shopowners, shop assistants in supermarkets, stallholders at respective foodcourts). Correct me if I am wrong (The Top 3):
(1st) Bukit Merah
(2nd) Telok Blangah
(3rd) ClementiThe following new towns where it is so hard to hear Hokkien being spoken that I believe Hokkien has ceased to exist being spoken as a common language. Please correct me again if I am wrong:
Northeast - Sengkang, Punggol
East - Pasir Ris, Tampines, Simei, Bedok
West - Choa Chu Kang, Yew Tee, Bukit Batok, Bukit Gombak, Jurong, Boon Lay
North - Woodlands, Sembawang, Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Bishan, Toa Payoh
It seems that the last bastion of Hokkien is rather Central area to Mid South-West (the area roughly starting from Bukit Purmei, Telok Blangah, Zion, Henderson, Lower Delta, Bukit Merah, Tanglin Halt, Commonwealth, Queenstown, Holland Estate, Ghim Moh and up till including Clementi / West Coast but excluding Dover and Dawson Place).* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Miscellaneous discussion:
1) I find it puzzling why "police/policeman" is called MA-TAU or MA-TAAU (馬悼) in Singaporean Cantonese, instead of others which had borrowed from Malayic "mata-mata" as MA-TA (Hokkien, Teochew, Hainanese: MA-TA 馬咑). According to Malaysian Cantonese it is MA-TA like other dialects. I wonder how it became Ma-Tau.
2) It is irritating when some Singaporean Hokkien cannot differentiate between 倩 (to employ someone) and 請 (to apply for job and be employed).
The 2 words have different meanings and same sound but have different tones:
倩, tsh'Ä©ã˨˩ (Hokkien 陰去 tone or 4th tone or Tone Mark 3)
è«‹, tsh'Ä©ã˥˧ (Hokkien 陰上 tone or 3rd tone or Tone Mark 2)From employer perspective can only use 倩, and from employee perspective can use 申請.
Eg.
Potential employee says "嘸知影å�ªé–“å…¬å�¸æ„›å€©(tsh'Ä©ã˨˩)我嘜？" (Dunno this company want to employ me or not?) or Employer says "我無倩(tsh'Ä©ã˨˩)咕哩甲我å�šå·¥ã€‚" (I don't employ worker) but × cannot say × " × æˆ‘ç„¡è«‹(tsh'Ä©ã˥˧)咕哩甲我å�šå·¥ã€‚× " -
dialects will die out sooner or later.
-
wot.
-
char si lang.
-
Originally posted by Clivebenss:
dialects will die out sooner or later.
Hi Penghulu
We are not doing enough.
-
Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Hi Penghulu
We are not doing enough.
Nothing is working, many dun even can say 123 in dialects. The ching chong chang has taken over liao.
-
Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Nothing is working, many dun even can say 123 in dialects. The ching chong chang has taken over liao.
What is surprising is that till today, Indonesians from different areas other than thosw who come from Jakarta Metropolis can often still communicate using regional versions of Hokkien. This morning while visiting EOY Cosplay I was able to hear many young Indonesians speaking their accents of Hokkien. However, this is not possible with Singaporeans. What is surprising is that Indonesia and Singapore are similar that they impose another language as the language of instruction (ie.e Indonesian & English). However to the many Indonesians, Hokkien is still used for communication.
Already in Hong Kong, there is a strong awareness that Putonghua will become a threat to Cantonese in the years to come. Reading from the various Chinese and Hong Kong forums, most Cantonese have passions for their language. The awareness to preserve Cantonese is weaker in Macau than in Hong Kong. Because due to the much much smaller population of native people there as opposed to many PRC outsiders who travel to work there everyday and they communicate in Putonghua for those who cannot communicate in Cantonese. However in Hong Kong it is still a very Cantonese city that hardly tolerate if you do not speak Cantonese like them. Already in Hong Kong forums, some people have noticed primary school kids speaking Putonghua among themselves. I was as well surprised by this phenomenon when I walked passed 3 primary school kids who were on a school excursion to Lantau and they were laughing and joking with each other in Cantonese-accented Putonghua. Initially I thought they were kids from Shenzhen but later I saw them together with other kids from Hong Kong primary school. Later I checked the Hong Kong forums and some people noticed that nowadays many kids who attend the primary schools along the East Rail Lines (particularly from Tai Po Market station onwards to Lo Wu station) are using Putonghua to speak to each other due to the recent "Pu Jiao Zhong" campaign to attract students with Hong Kong passports from Shenzhen to study in the Hong Kong primary schools. But unfortunately, I was not able to notice such primary school students along the line myself. Referring to the above article posted by Ee Hoe Hean club, it is really sad to hear that in Guangxi (Kwongsai) the local authorities have recently banned all broadcasts in Cantonese due to the local authorities believing that Putonghua Mandarin is the more politically correct "language" and have embarked on the eradication of Cantonese usage particularly in the Lam Leng (Nanning) area and the Paak Hoi (Beihai) / Yen Chau (Qinzhou) area. But the authorities have a harder time to crush Cantonese in the original Cantonese heartland of Ng Chau (Wuzhou), Kwai Kong (Guigang), Peng Lam (Pingnan), Yuk Lam (Yu Lin) and thus Cantonese is currently spared from destruction in those areas.
I hope whether the authorities in Singapore can look into it and review the consequences of language loss in the next generation.
-
Sad but what's the difference is Hokkien and Bahasa are differentiated but Hokkien and Mandarin which guise as pseudo-mother tongue can quickly convert those who think ching chong chang lah. Too bad Sg dialects will be extinguished by the pseudo mother tongue that the state promote.
Being rootless is easier to rule...
-
Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Sad but what's the difference is Hokkien and Bahasa are differentiated but Hokkien and Mandarin which guise as pseudo-mother tongue can quickly convert those who think ching chong chang lah. Too bad Sg dialects will be extinguished by the pseudo mother tongue that the state promote.
Being rootless is easier to rule...
Our roots (Singaporean Chinese roots) will always be firmly rooted in the Hokkien culture.
For the youngster or the uninformed, many of Singapore's English and Malay major landmarks and place names were transliterated (音è¯) into established Chinese characters via Hokkien pronunciation (and some also Cantonese / Hakka / Teochew).
(It is parallel to Hong Kong which transliterate the English place names via its Cantonese pronunication and not from the Mandarin pronunciation) (as well as parallel to Malaysia and Indonesia which transliterate the local place names via its Hokkien or Cantonese pronunciation which would be meaningless if read out using Mandarin pronunciation)
Most of the minor roads that hasn't had common Chinese characters in the past were given a Mandarin transliteration at a much later period, whereas landmarks that are cognates with famous names (eg. Alexander Rd / Henderson Rd / Victoria St / Mt Elizabeth) uses the general Mandarin transliteration as with other Chinese speaking communities.
Taking a quick look at English & Malay original landmark and place names transliterations of Chinese characters and one will find:
Eg:
Hokkien
- � ORCHARD >> �節 (transliterated into Hokkien "OR CHART" than Mandarin "Wu-jie")
- � ALJUNIED >> 阿裕尼 (transliterated into Hokkien "AH JOO NI" and not Mandarin "A-yu-ni")
- � PONGGOL (later Malay standardized as Punggol) >> 榜� (using Hokkien "PONG GO" than Mandarin "Bang-E")
- â—� WOODLANDS >> å…€è˜ (closer to Hokkien "OOT LAN" than Mandarin "Wu-lan")
- â—� BUGIS >> æ¦å�‰å£« (closer to Hokkien "BU KIT SI" than Mandarin "Wu-ji-shi")
- � PAYA LEBAR >> 巴耶利峇 (closer to Hokkien "PA YA LEE BA" and not Mandarin "Ba-ye-li-ba")
- â—� BEDOK >> å‹¿æ´› (closer to Hokkien "BUT LOK" than Mandarin "Wu-luo")
- â—� TEKONG >> å¾·å…‰ (transliterated into Hokkien "TEK KONG" and not Mandarin "De-guang")
- â—� BUKIT BATOK >> æ¦å�‰å·´ç�£ (better represented by Hokkien "BOO KIT BA TOK" than Mandarin "Wu-ji-ba-du")
- � ROBINSON >> 羅�申 (closer to Hokkien "LO BIN SIN" and not Mandarin "Luo-min-shen")
- � KOLAM AYER >> 哥�亞逸 (closer to Hokkien "KO LAM AH YET" and not Mandarin "Ge-nan-ya-yi")
- â—� KAMPONG GLAM >> ç”˜æ¦œæ ¼å�— (transliterated into Hokkien "KAM PONG KEH LAM" and not Mandarin "Gan-bang-ge-nan")
- � TAMPINES >> 淡濱尼 (closer to Hokkien "TAM PIN NI" than Mandarin "Dan-bin-ni")
- � BEACH Rd >> 美�路 (better represented by Hokkien "BEE CHI" and not Mandarin "Mei-zhi")
- � BENCOOLEN St >> 明�蓮街 (better represented by Hokkien "BENG KO LIEN" and not Mandarin "Ming-gu-lian")
- � CLUB St >> 客�街 (using Hokkien "KEH LAP" and not Mandarin "Ke-na")
- � ENGGOR St >> 英莪街 (using Hokkien "ENG GO" and not Mandarin "Ying-e")
- � SYNAGOGUE St >> 新那閣街 (better represented by Hokkien or Hakka "SIN NA GOK" instead of Mandarin "Xin-na-ge")
- � CHURCH St >> 漆街 (transliterated as Hokkien or Cantonese "CHHAT" / "CHUTT" instead of Mandarin "Qi")
- â—� PIPIT Rd >> 比ç†è·¯ (using Hokkien or Hakka "PI PIT" instead of Mandarin "Bi-bi")
- � SIME Rd >> 森路 (using Hokkien "SIM" or Cantonese "SUM" instead of Mandarin "Sen")
- � HAVELOCK Rd >> �樂路 (using Hokkien or Cantonese "HAP LOCK" instead of Mandarin "He-le")
- � TANGLIN >> �陵 (using Hokkien "TANG LENG" and not Mandarin "Dong-ling")
- � KEMBANGAN >> 景万岸 (using Hokkien "KENG BAN GAN" instead of Mandarin "Jing-wan-an")
- � GEYLANG >> 芽蘢 (equivalent to Hokkien "GEY LANG" instead of Mandarin "Ya-long")
- â—� TELOK BLANGAH >> ç›´è�½å¸ƒè˜é›… (better represented by Hokkien "TEET LOHK PO LAN NGAH" and not Mandarin "Zhi-luo-bu-lan-ya")
- � SIGLAP >> 實乞� (using Hokkien "SIT KEH LAP" and not Mandarin "Shi-qi-na")
- â—� JALAN KAYU >> 惹è˜åŠ ç”± (closer to Hokkien "JIAR LAN KAR EEU" than Mandarin "Re-lan-jia-you")
- � BENDEMEER >> 明地迷亞 (closer to Hokkien "BENG TEY MEE AH" than Mandarin "Ming-di-mi-ya")
- � JURONG >> 裕廊 (using Hokkien "JOO LONG" than Mandarin "Yu-lang")
- � KEPPEL >> 笈巴 (closer to Hokkien "KEEP PA" than Mandarin "Ji-ba")
- � TUAS >> 大士 (using Hokkien "TUA SI" than Mandarin "Da-shi")
Teochew / Cantonese / Hakka
- � Circular Rd -> 沙�朥路 (using Teochew "SA KIU LA" instead of Mandarin "Sha-qiu-lao")
- � Buangkok -> �國 (using Teochew "BUANG KOK" instead of Mandarin "Wan-guo")
- � Mandai -> 万禮 (using Cantonese "MAN LAI" instead of Mandarin "Wan-li")
- � Owen Rd -> 奧云路 (using Cantonese "OU WAN" instead of Mandarin "Ao-yun)
- â—� Outram -> æ�å�— (using Cantonese "AU LAM" instead of Mandarin "Ou-nan")
- â—� Kallang -> åŠ å†· (using Cantonese "KA LANG" instead of Mandarin "Jia-leng")
- � Temasek -> 淡馬錫 (using Cantonese "TAM MA SEK" instead of Mandarin "Dan-ma-xi")
- � Clementi -> 金文泰 (using Cantonese "KAM MAN TAI" instead of Mandarin "Jin-wen-tai")
- � Suffolk Rd -> 薩�路 (using Cantonese "SAT FOOK" instead of Mandarin "Sa-fu")
- � Prinsep St -> 布連拾街 (using Toishanese "PU LIN SEP" instead of Mandarin "Bu-lian-shi")
- � Farrer -> 花拉 (using Hakka "FA LA" instead of Mandarin "Hua-la")
- � Mt Faber -> 花�山 (using Hakka "FA BAK" instead of Mandarin "Hua-bai")
- � Philip St -> �立街 (using Hakka "FEE LIP" instead of Mandarin "Fei-li")
- � Ahmad Ibrahim -> 阿末�布拉欣 (using Hakka "AH MAT YEE BU LA HIN" instead of Mandarin "A-mo-yi-bu-la-xin")
Thus we can always use these chances to create the awareness for the younger generations, that if not for the original Hokkien pronunciations, those Chinese characters would make no sense if it were to be read with Mandarin pronunciations.
(Example: How does Bang-E (Mandarin for 榜�) correlate at all with the sound in Punggol/Ponggol (Malay)? If not for the original language (Hokkien), we would not know the Chinese characters 榜� should have been read as Pong-Go (Hokkien for 榜�) originally before Mandarin snatched the place as one of our official language in Singapore instead of Hokkien)