Foreigners and PRs against a proposed exclusive tax on them
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by Azim Azman
inSing.com - 20 February 2013 3:59 PM | Updated 9:14 PMForeigners and Permanent Residents (PR) who inSing interviewed would feel ‘punished’ for being in Singapore if a proposed income and property tax, exclusive to them, ever comes into effect.
In a note posted on his Facebook (FB) page, Member of Parliament (MP) Hri Kumar wrote that he intends to propose the tax in the upcoming Budget debates next week.
Called the National Defence Duty Tax, its purpose is to “address a current imbalance which currently exists” of Singaporeans who sacrifice a “significant economic cost” by doing two years of National Service (NS), versus foreigners and PRs who do not.
His argument is since non-Singaporeans benefit from the security which a strong armed forces provides, they should pay a duty, “a financial contribution to the protection and preservation of their (Singaporean) lives, families, jobs, investments and properties.”
MP Kumar’s FB post on 13 February has sparked heated debate online with FB users posting 169 comments and his note being shared 145 times.
SCEPTICISM OVER TAX
Many foreigners and PRs who inSing interviewed expressed scepticism over the intent of the tax.
Advertising strategist Felix Pels says that the tax is trying to deflect attention away from the “current unrest” over the government’s recently released Population White Paper which states that Singapore could have 6.9 million people by 2030.
“(It is) attempting to 'punish' non-citizens…adding a tax does nothing to address the legitimate questions around where Singapore's population is heading and how the government intends to grow it,” said the 30-year-old Australian, who has been working in Singapore for the past one year.
He adds that Hri Kumar’s suggestion – that the objective of the tax to “create sharper distinctions between Singaporeans and others who live or do business here” – will send the wrong message to those considering a move to Singapore.
“If anything, this tax will only increase the issues (between Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans) that are causing concern today,” said Pels.
Marcelino Jr, who works as a senior manager with the Singapore Sports Council, agrees that the tax goes against current government efforts to integrate new citizens and will drive a wedge between local Singaporeans and foreigners.
He also criticises one of Hri Kumar’s points that low wage Indian workers be left out of the tax equation, as being unfair.
“If the tax is meant to offset the per-unit cost of security to each person in Singapore, then it has to be fair across the board – to all who do not contribute to NS. That means everyone foreign including foreign domestic workers. It shouldn't matter whether (they are) skilled, unskilled or professional,” the 43-year-old Filipino said.
A 32-year-old French national, who only wanted to be known as “Jennifer”, has been living in Singapore for the past nine years. She agrees that MP Kumar “should find better reasons if he wants to increase our taxes – these (current reasons put forward) are just not convincing at all.”
LOW TAXES IN SINGAPORE
However she, like many foreigners and PRs interviewed, admit that the current taxes they have to pay in Singapore are low.
“I come from a country where taxes are way higher than in Singapore so I do not consider myself as heavily taxed,” she said.
This is not the case for Ted Fordney who works as a vice president for Neptune Orient Lines. The 56-year-old says that this additional tax will add to the already high taxation United States (US) citizens have to pay.
“As a US citizen, I pay US and Singapore taxes. The tax equalisation terms I was given are such that my company subsidises the difference so that I do not have to endure double taxation. However, this additional tax might push my employer to discontinue their expatriate program, or their tax coverage,” said Fordney, who spent eight years in Singapore before heading back to the United States in 2010.
A Canadian marketing executive, who only gave his name as “Kelvin”, has a different perspective on the situation.
He says that, having lived in four different countries, away from his home country of Canada, citizens have every right to expect priority over non-citizens in all matters of policy planning.
“The decisions on how that country is run should be made by its citizens and we (foreigners) are guests here,” he said, adding that he has lived in Singapore for 13 years.
Former nominated MP and lawyer Siew Kum Hong wrote in his blog on 15 February that the tax only approaches the cost and burden of NS in economic and not real world terms.
“If we want to make up for the cost and burden of defending the country, we should give those who have served NS even more benefits than they receive today. More, much more than the tax relief and the SAFRA (Singapore Armed Forces Reservists Association) membership,” he wrote.
CLARIFICATIONS AND RESPONSES
The online debate over the proposed tax has prompted Hri Kumar to make clarifications and responses to individual FB users on his Facebook page.
In his latest post put up on Saturday, he reiterates his stance that there is a need to ensure that non-Singaporeans who come here to work do not see Singapore as a purely economic opportunity and that they integrate with the rest of Singapore society.
He firmly believes that NS is the biggest differentiation between citizens and non-citizens and that his proposed tax is the perfect way to address the imbalance.
He wrote this in response to Facebook users who expressed reservations that the time spent for National Service can be “paid off” with a tax.
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of cos rite
who will agree one
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This MP Hri Kumar’s proposal about taxing the SPRs and foreign workers in Singapore to distinguish them between the Singapore core and non-Singapore core population will not solved the main issues of defining the Pro Singaporean motive. I’ve mentioned in my topic of What Singaporeans Want From The Singapore Government at http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/465365?page=2 1. No CPF for PRs. 2. PRs status limit to 5 years afterwhich they must choose either to become a Singaporean or renounce their PR status. 3. Disallow PRs from buying HDB flats. 4. Male PRs, 18 years to 40 years old must serve the mandatory National Service if they want to become a Singaporean. So SPRs will not be here just for the sake of earning money and run away with their CPF when they leave for their own country or other country for good. All foreign workers should pay their own monthly levy to the Government to monitor them and their employers. During my time while I serve NS in the SAF, I knew a 24 year old Malaysian who was a SPR and 21 year old Indian national who was a SPR, they served the 2 years Full Time NS to become SIngaporeans. Those male SPRs who wants to become Singaporeans and above 30 years old, they can serve the compulsory NS on a staggered basis while working here and later become Singaporeans. Just like the law of NS act in the past, the first and second eldest male Singaporeans in the family were exempted from full time NS but they must served the compulsory NS on a part time basis on a staggered basis for one year I think. They can be a Vigilante Corp with the SPF or as a warder with the Singapore Prisons Service or serve in SCDF. My eldest brother was an ASP officer with Singapore Prisons Service and my second eldest brother was a Vigilante Corp with SPF. The way I see it, having construction workers and domestic workers in Singapore, I have no issue with it. About foreign nurses…well…let me remind all Singaporeans that during the SAR period in Singapore, many foreign nurses had resigned and left Singapore because they were afraid to be infected and die. Remember!
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The Singapore Government has to enforce these restrictions on SPRs and foreign workers if not they would take Singapore for granted. Even big countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Philippines...etc..do not give PR and Citizenship status anyhow.
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Originally posted by FireIce:
of cos rite
who will agree one
I had work in overseas before, some countries do have a higher tax for foreigner, during that time I lan lan still have to pay. -
Invite foreigners...
Tax them for more money... Get more money while claiming to favor Singaporeans...
Genius
It's funny how these money-minded pappy are able to think of ingenius ways to get more money but cannot solve problems...
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Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:
This MP Hri Kumar’s proposal about taxing the SPRs and foreign workers in Singapore to distinguish them between the Singapore core and non-Singapore core population will not solved the main issues of defining the Pro Singaporean motive.
I’ve mentioned in my topic of What Singaporeans Want From The Singapore Government at http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/465365?page=2
1. No CPF for PRs.
2. PRs status limit to 5 years afterwhich they must choose either to become a Singaporean or renounce their PR status.
3. Disallow PRs from buying HDB flats.
4. Male PRs, 18 years to 40 years old must serve the mandatory National Service if they want to become a Singaporean.
So SPRs will not be here just for the sake of earning money and run away with their CPF when they leave for their own country or other country for good.
All foreign workers should pay their own monthly levy to the Government to monitor them and their employers.
During my time while I serve NS in the SAF, I knew a 24 year old Malaysian who was a SPR and 21 year old Indian national who was a SPR, they served the 2 years Full Time NS to become SIngaporeans. Those male SPRs who wants to become Singaporeans and above 30 years old, they can serve the compulsory NS on a staggered basis while working here and later become Singaporeans. Just like the law of NS act in the past, the first and second eldest male Singaporeans in the family were exempted from full time NS but they must served the compulsory NS on a part time basis on a staggered basis for one year I think. They can be a Vigilante Corp with the SPF or as a warder with the Singapore Prisons Service or serve in SCDF. My eldest brother was an ASP officer with Singapore Prisons Service and my second eldest brother was a Vigilante Corp with SPF.
The way I see it, having construction workers and domestic workers in Singapore, I have no issue with it. About foreign nurses…well…let me remind all Singaporeans that during the SAR period in Singapore, many foreign nurses had resigned and left Singapore because they were afraid to be infected and die. Remember!
Hi there, some good and thought through terms proposed here. That MP really is he from PAP? that's really some very bad thinking!
We should not impose a tax. otehrwise its no differnece to blodd sucker. we also dont wanna send a signal to friegners and PRS that we are blood suckers by imposing tax. bery typical of PAP!
there should be cpf deductin from foreigners and PRs. but the interest rate offered to them should not be the 2.5 lah 4 percent like that is equivalent to singaporeans. they can run away with cpf, a previlege of more income form the emplyers' end, but not the higher interest rate earned from our government. its after all the workers' mony. but once they leave, the same rule to make sure they dont cum back again stays. its either they leave for good, and not cum here anytime like they wish!
yes after a few years working here they can at the status renew stage choose to stay with prevailing rules terms and benefits of the MOM as foreign or PR wsorkforce status, we should not force them to take up citizenship or go away, unless they are really problematic ones or really are lazy and bad workers that any new ones can replace. we also have the right to review theor status and qualities before accepting them as singaporeans.. some may wanna becum citizens, others dont. give them the choice to becum us, or stay to earn their higher income here and contribute to our workforce.
as for PRs having to serach NS, we should relook on what ad how they shll serve.
the navy army and irforce we should no have PRs serving. these are very sensitive appointments that reviewed to foreign people our very own military tactics (even if its basic BMTs), protocol, integrity and pride. in war i want a loyal singaporean blood fighting alonside me, not some fake mercenaries paid to fight and defend. They should be put to less sensitive roles like nursing, civil defence. Even policing is too sensitive for them in my opinion.
good point to remind people of what actually happened during sars on foreign nurses. if its true.
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very fair
tax for them
plus rebate of COE for borned singaporeans
becos they are the reason why COE and house prices are so high -
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Originally posted by TehJarVu:
very fair
tax for them
plus rebate of COE for borned singaporeans
becos they are the reason why COE and house prices are so high
if you want tax, then at least tax those PRs and foeigner workers that exceed a certain limit of income ceiling. purchase and profits from sale of luxury items like luxury cars and houses properties - by all means tax them higher than normal singaporeans i got no say. but to just cum up with a silly new tax item out of thin air for them is really not wise - reflects badly on singapore and shows typical traits of the PAP. -
i no huan loh, any tax on any foreigners is a good thang for mi
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frankly, we should tax the ministars for stupid ideas.. 1 stupid idea = $500,000 tax
i think the country's coffers would be about a few trillion dollars richer by now
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Originally posted by TehJarVu:
i no huan loh, any tax on any foreigners is a good thang for mi
same here, but we must balance babarism from logical blood sucking. after all if we dont such them, they suck ours dry and pat their backside can leave. suka suka can cum back again. i like to tax, but tax properly so that by law and ethic they cannot complain and win in a ny arguements therafter. -
Originally posted by the Bear:
frankly, we should tax the ministars for stupid ideas.. 1 stupid idea = $500,000 tax
i think the country's coffers would be about a few trillion dollars richer by now
cum on lah, its a job for them. they run out of job very bad 1. we lower middle income people knows. we dont want the ministers to suffer without a job - a milliob teir level 1.
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dont laff, if they dont have a million dollar paycheck - very difficult to live 1.
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Originally posted by troublemaker2005:
dont laff, if they dont have a million dollar paycheck - very difficult to live 1.
Remember wat G FU said when they are talking abt lower pay..."We need to decide and shift our lifestyle and see if there any drop in the comfort and living standard" or something like tat...
Wah, if ask them take peanut paycut = living standard gone, wat abt those family right now earning 2k-3k per mth??? Beggar families???
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we r stoopid, does not means foreigners n prs r also stoopid.. if they r stoopid, y they come here?
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I think the FT should organized a Protest in Hong Lim Park. While will the number be more than the Lesser Mortals protest or not?
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Originally posted by Lazybumy:
I think the FT should organized a Protest in Hong Lim Park. While will the number be more than the Lesser Mortals protest or not?
For locals only. Foreigners are not allow to protest there.
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r they here to help our economy or taking our money home?
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You cannot put a dollar amount on NS. It cheapens the sacrifices made by our NSmen. Two of the best years of our lives, literally putting our lives at risk - that is something that can never be compensated at any tax rate.
Just force second-generation PRs to do NS. If they fail to do so and fly out of the country, then declare them to be fugitives from law, with the threat of instant arrest should they step foot on Singapore soil.
Hell, PNG the whole family and put them on the first flight out of Changi. If their sons cannot be bothered to serve this country, then our sons should not have to serve them.
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suckers will be suckers.
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Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
Remember wat G FU said when they are talking abt lower pay..."We need to decide and shift our lifestyle and see if there any drop in the comfort and living standard" or something like tat...
Wah, if ask them take peanut paycut = living standard gone, wat abt those family right now earning 2k-3k per mth??? Beggar families???
if they wanna lower lifestyle? all things aside and first things first, lower transport fares, dont increase anymore. tthey can only do a review on prices once say like 5 years. if not that one that old man with a stupig lookin face always like to increase here and then, and also any new face that takes over. lower health care costs - free and even more heavilysubsidised for severe terminal dieseases and conditon. no ore increase in property tax, taxheavily you like only when people rent, sell them. and ministers also have to make good example. stop drawing millions. we dont need one minister to have duo responsibilities of running a constituency and town council and be in parliahment at the same time!one incharge to run town councils, he will have more time and can do his job better. another will be in pariliahment, review policies collecting information and walk the gound to do so. h can communicate with hhis incharge at constituencies. the million package to be reviewed and divided between the two parties. or maybe no need to pay them so much dont do so. that money will remain in our banks and investments firms to gnerate more porfits for the conuntry, they can be utilised in times of need.
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Originally posted by Tcsaaa:
we r stoopid, does not means foreigners n prs r also stoopid.. if they r stoopid, y they come here?
that's whyi say we must deduct CPF from them foreigners also. that employer portion will come from employers anyway./ if they dont contribute CPF, then that will put our local workforce on even more disadvantge - employers will even wanna hire more foreigners! because no need CPF mah!and the governside on dispensing interests! it will eaat to their revenue more if we give them same high interest rates as 2.5 and 4 percent us singaporeans are getting.
when i wrte giving foreigners CPF, i am not a saint actually.