Why is there so much dislike towards PAP?
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Originally posted by alize:
Malaysia is indeed a terrible place but we are not comparing ourselves against Malaysia.
In Singapore we have 40 year loans. We don't want this. We don't care if Malaysia has 50 year loans.
I understand that PAP at times can be a bit "proud" and they tend not to listen to the citizens.But if you notice what you have achieved lately - it is utterly amazing. You are talking about a small island only 697 sq km. You have no mineral resources/lack water/no land for farming. Yet PAP has managed to make singaporeans a high skill society and attract a lot of foreign investors to set up HQ or Asia Pacific offices in singapore. Yet PAP has managed to provide housing in the form of HDB flats and is facing a lot of obstacles due to lack of available land. Yet PAP is able to raise the education level in singapore (many malaysians are sending their kids to singapore to study because they don't trust their own education system). Yet PAP is able to build recycling systems for singapore and help the island to sustain at least 40% of supply of their own water (relying less from malaysia).
I mean - you guys have done a fantastic job considering the kind of obstacles you have to work with (lack of resources/hostile neigbhours/multiracial tension during the70s.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
The ministers have no shame to pay themselves first ministers salary, highest salary in the world, hence no reason at all to compare with Malaysia. The govt in Malaysia are not paid that obscene amount of salary as the PAPigs, greedy pigs.
With that kind of salary they pay themselves , sad to say their performance is not up to par, it is mediocre and below. What a shame!
Much is paid, much is expected.
You sure? Yes Malaysian government ministers are not paid as well as singaporean ministers but they get a lot of kickbacks. Recently a female minister (women&culture minister) had to step down because there was a scandal involving her husband who is the chairman of National Feedlot Co (A foundation set up to help malay farmers with loan and technical aid for breeding cows). The minister's husband was caught red-handed $100 million loan for himself to buy shares in KLSE under his name.
And then there is another minister whom I shall not name. There is a scandal involving him - he is said to have deliberately hiked up the price of two submarines bought from Spain to $ 2 billion dollars. I ask you - how can two submarines be worth $2 billion ???? Much of the money must have been pocketed somewhere.
I heard from a friend who used to work as a director for a construction company that does roadworks in Trengannu that the Trengganu state government delibrately ask his company to build another highway parallel to an existing highway - just to make money. His company hike up the price and the excess is share between politicians in Trengganu and his company. The highway project is worth $100 million.
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
You sure? Yes Malaysian government ministers are not paid as well as singaporean ministers but they get a lot of kickbacks. Recently a female minister (women&culture minister) had to step down because there was a scandal involving her husband who is the chairman of National Feedlot Co (A foundation set up to help malay farmers with loan and technical aid for breeding cows). The minister's husband was caught red-handed $100 million loan for himself to buy shares in KLSE under his name.
And then there is another minister whom I shall not name. There is a scandal involving him - he is said to have deliberately hiked up the price of two submarines bought from Spain to $ 2 billion dollars. I ask you - how can two submarines be worth $2 billion ???? Much of the money must have been pocketed somewhere.
I heard from a friend who used to work as a director for a construction company that does roadworks in Trengannu that the Trengganu state government delibrately ask his company to build another highway parallel to an existing highway - just to make money. His company hike up the price and the excess is share between politicians in Trengganu and his company. The highway project is worth $100 million.
any idea why the ministers r paid well, yet many r director of nos, of companies?
do they hav the time?
is this wat u wan to say as legally corrupted?
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Originally posted by lce:
any idea why the ministers r paid well, yet many r director of nos, of companies?
do they hav the time?
is this wat u wan to say as legally corrupted?
In a sense yeah - PAP ministers are making it legal. But at least its transparent and you people know how much they are earning.Malaysian ministers? no idea. Because of the Official Secrets Act - nobody knows anything about these contracts.
Many years ago when Anwar was brought down with sodomy charges - there was a poison letter going around claiming that a certain rival of Anwar ( a former finance minister) was having wealth abroad and in malaysia worth $4billion dollars !
And then there was a former Selangor minister who belong to the BN party. He was a vice president of UMNO. He was caught carrying $3million to Australia because he failed to declare to the Australian government.
And another former Selangor minister from BN party was caught owning a giant mansion house worth $50mil when his salary was only $216k a year. How can he afford a $50mil mansion?
this is what happens when things are not transparent.
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
In a sense yeah - PAP ministers are making it legal. But at least its transparent and you people know how much they are earning.Malaysian ministers? no idea. Because of the Official Secrets Act - nobody knows anything about these contracts.
Many years ago when Anwar was brought down with sodomy charges - there was a poison letter going around claiming that a certain rival of Anwar ( a former finance minister) was having wealth abroad and in malaysia worth $4billion dollars !
are u 100% sure there no personal interest in other biz?LSL bought few aparment at discounted price from a listed company so was he penaltize as a leader?
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
You sure? Yes Malaysian government ministers are not paid as well as singaporean ministers but they get a lot of kickbacks. Recently a female minister (women&culture minister) had to step down because there was a scandal involving her husband who is the chairman of National Feedlot Co (A foundation set up to help malay farmers with loan and technical aid for breeding cows). The minister's husband was caught red-handed $100 million loan for himself to buy shares in KLSE under his name.
And then there is another minister whom I shall not name. There is a scandal involving him - he is said to have deliberately hiked up the price of two submarines bought from Spain to $ 2 billion dollars. I ask you - how can two submarines be worth $2 billion ???? Much of the money must have been pocketed somewhere.
I heard from a friend who used to work as a director for a construction company that does roadworks in Trengannu that the Trengganu state government delibrately ask his company to build another highway parallel to an existing highway - just to make money. His company hike up the price and the excess is share between politicians in Trengganu and his company. The highway project is worth $100 million.
Oh yes, perhaps you want to advise the Malaysia govt to be like PAP, treat the country as a business. AS i said, don't compare, PAP is paying themselves the highest salary in the world their performance ought to be top class, above that of many other countries. You still don't get it.
Besides I am a Singaporean I just take what you said about Malaysia as a pinch of salt. As a Singaporean I am concerned about how the govt in my country treat us and the country.
There is no need to state so much to defend the yucky PAP , no need to state so many blah blah blah to "justify" they are "better". Facts and reality won't lie to us.
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Originally posted by lce:
are u 100% sure there no personal interest in other biz?LSL bought few aparment at discounted price from a listed company so was he penaltize as a leader?
why the inheritance law was changed?
If you are referring to the property purchase from HPL, Freddie Lee the brother of Lee Kuan Yew is the director there.
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So funny leh, we are in Singapore and this fellow keeps comparing Malaysia with Singapore when there is no need and no reason at all to prove PAP is better.
Like I said in my previous post, facts and reality won't lie to us. However much he tries to "prove" more will get more negative about the govt called PAP.
HAhahahah! PAP means pay and pay.
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Why compare?
Every country is different.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Fresh air is free.
For now.
They will tax u soon, no worry
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
I don't know why everybody complaining about PAP. You should look at Malaysia.
Malaysia could have become an economic tiger. But sadly a lot of mismanagement by the BN gahmen. The BN now complain that budget deficit cause by high subsidies. But actual fact is the BN politicians running the country to the ground with all their mafia rackets extorting the country.
The proton car is a national racket to profit all BN politicians and businessmen. The whole supply chain network is dominated by them. They deliberately tax high import duties on jap/continental/american cars to force msians to buy their crap proton/naza/perodua cars. Which in turn all the suppliers of spare parts benefit from this. Most msians cannot afford expensive import cars are forced to buy the shit proton car which is defective and have a lot of quality problems.
Then there is land issue. A lot of state gahmen collude with BN politicians - sell them land dirt cheap price and then develop shopping malls and office blocks to make big margins.
There is the rubbish OSA law that does not allow the citizens to vet the contracts made between gahmen and private contractors - so the gahmen continue to bleed the country dry.
Also there is highway concessionaires. Many well connected BN politicians make money thru this racket. They go and build a stupid highway and then block all the small roads forcing residents to use their stupid highway and then charge toll to the residences.
There is also well connected construction companies connected to BN - they all cheat the people one. They go and quote high high price and the gahmen accept this crap contracts. In the end they use cheap substandard materials to build bridges/stadiums/infrastructures/flyovers. Sometimes schools and stadiums collapse because of this substandard materials. Imagine the margins these bastards make ! Some more no tender ! No transparency ! So nobody knows the terms of these contracts.
Always we hear these few stupid companies - gamudddaaa and MMMCCC always get the lucrative govt tenders.
Then there is the blady media. They are so bias. All the newspapers - chinese/tamil/english/malay are owned by the gahmen. Everyday we hear them blast the opposition and only praise the gahmen. Whenever the opposition do good job we never hear only when they screw up the gahmen controlled newspapers post it on front page big big.
Malaysia started out on same level playing field as South Korea. But look at South Korea today - can fight Japan with Samsung Hyundai and Daewoo.
Malaysia got what? Petrol? Even that is running out.
Then our education level is like shit. This year gahmen declared 10,000 students got straight As ! Wah sound very good. Only thing is that the gahmen made the exam so easy so that the majority people can pass. A lot of chinese so pissed with our education system that they migrate overseas for better education for their kids.
So what is wrong with PAP? Yeah, theyare a bit ruthless but at least they did a GREAT JOB to put singapore where it is today.
Then election was cancelled for municipal councils by BN in 1969. This has resulted in state gahmen choosing their own municipal reps. These reps continue to develop the country out of control. Until landslides kill 50 people in highland towers. Residents try to sue but gahmen made a new statute law to place municipal councils immune to prosecution. So these corrupted municipal councillars continue to sell land cheap and develop them and pocket $$$ into their own private pockets. The development going out of control until housing areas such as Puchong expand so big resulting in 2 hour jams.
Public transportation is non existence. Last time got mini bus, srijaya and even a lot of chinese bus transport such as Toong Foong. But no no the gahmen want to control everything. Then they cancelled bus permits and awarded them to Mahathir co called Metrobus and one stupid company. So now the busses come around like once an hour ! Also some places got no bus at all. The stupid LRT only service certain places. KTM commutor always break down.
Hmmm, just like my schooling day.
When my mum ask: Why u get a bad result for this exam
Answer: U know Ah Gu, Ah Kao, Ah Meow, their result lagi worst. Is the paper too difficult. Is not my fault
Never is my fault, unless i'm the last
1.1B throw into transport can they stop the price form increasing for a few year? Alot of question mark will start coming lol
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Originally posted by Gimchow:
They will tax u soon, no worry
Don't scare me.
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damn stress.
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subjective therefore no comments
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Originally posted by CityMains:
subjective therefore no comments
What is subjective?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Don't scare me.
They give tax rebate.
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
I understand that PAP at times can be a bit "proud" and they tend not to listen to the citizens.But if you notice what you have achieved lately - it is utterly amazing. You are talking about a small island only 697 sq km. You have no mineral resources/lack water/no land for farming. Yet PAP has managed to make singaporeans a high skill society and attract a lot of foreign investors to set up HQ or Asia Pacific offices in singapore. Yet PAP has managed to provide housing in the form of HDB flats and is facing a lot of obstacles due to lack of available land. Yet PAP is able to raise the education level in singapore (many malaysians are sending their kids to singapore to study because they don't trust their own education system). Yet PAP is able to build recycling systems for singapore and help the island to sustain at least 40% of supply of their own water (relying less from malaysia).
I mean - you guys have done a fantastic job considering the kind of obstacles you have to work with (lack of resources/hostile neigbhours/multiracial tension during the70s.
PAP has goals for Singapore and to get there, has to go through a stage of "good" development that make everybody happy.
Now we are past that stage, their goals only make suffering for us. We will not work till we drop, forgo our cars, pay for our houses into retirement, live in 980 square feet per family (4 room flat) and do NS while foreigners take our jobs and school places.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
Oh yes, perhaps you want to advise the Malaysia govt to be like PAP, treat the country as a business. AS i said, don't compare, PAP is paying themselves the highest salary in the world their performance ought to be top class, above that of many other countries. You still don't get it.
Besides I am a Singaporean I just take what you said about Malaysia as a pinch of salt. As a Singaporean I am concerned about how the govt in my country treat us and the country.
There is no need to state so much to defend the yucky PAP , no need to state so many blah blah blah to "justify" they are "better". Facts and reality won't lie to us.
Why not compare? I am not saying that you should vote PAP back to gahmen. Of course you can say no limit to comparison because you can compare singapore to somalia. But I compare malaysia to singapore because both countries got a lot of similarities. Moreover both countries used to be one country. Since LKY brought singapore out of the 1963 merger - it is good to know how singapore did since it branch out from malaysia. Also malaysia and singapore has 3 major race:indian malay chinese. Speak manglish and singlish.
Isn't it logical to compare?
Just think about it: what would you do had singapore still been part of malaysia? A good yardstick would be Penang because Penang is very similar to singapore. Today penang is also facing land shortage/rising cost of condos/crowding.
I know PAP has conducted a lot of political abuse to maintain power. Their GE is very confusing. PAP got 70% of the votes yet got 95% of the seats. Their demarcation is very unfair.
You can still choose an alternative gahmen. I am saying PAP is not good in terms of human rights/proud and too businesslike but they still do better than most gahmen in SEA region.
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Originally posted by lce:
are u 100% sure there no personal interest in other biz?LSL bought few aparment at discounted price from a listed company so was he penaltize as a leader?
Yes. Few apartment is corruption. But compared to BN politicians who bought 10 to 20 apartments and bungalows and shares in listed companies worth billions is far worst.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
So funny leh, we are in Singapore and this fellow keeps comparing Malaysia with Singapore when there is no need and no reason at all to prove PAP is better.
Like I said in my previous post, facts and reality won't lie to us. However much he tries to "prove" more will get more negative about the govt called PAP.
HAhahahah! PAP means pay and pay.
Of course pay and pay - it is call the multiplier effect - you must keep the economy rolling. What you expect? You live in small island - this is how economy works. Yuor only resource is the high skill labour. The only thing your gahmen can do is to make you pay and pay.You expect singapore to subsidise you on food/fuel/education? You not live in vast country like Soviet Union. You don't have coal/oil/plantation/farmland/minerals.
If you want gahmen is be populist then imagine Cuba but at worst scale. Drive 1960s car - if you lucky to afford one/ always power outage/ traffic jam/ amenities breaking down/wait long queues to hospital & public services.
You can only live in cheap and low cost society if you are like venezuela - rich in oil and big country. But even that is hard because Hugo Chavez is causing venezuela to be inefficient - long lines to supermarket & food and other supplies run out fast.
Hey me not supporting PAP. But me wondering why so much angst towards PAP. If not happy then vote them out. Why so many complain yet PAP is in power?
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Originally posted by alize:
PAP has goals for Singapore and to get there, has to go through a stage of "good" development that make everybody happy.
Now we are past that stage, their goals only make suffering for us. We will not work till we drop, forgo our cars, pay for our houses into retirement, live in 980 square feet per family (4 room flat) and do NS while foreigners take our jobs and school places.
I say PAP has outlived its usefulness. Last time they lead you out of economical doldrums and crisis after separation from malaysia.Singaporeans should now be seeking more say and be heard by gahmen. Singapore should seek more suffrage and human rights.
Cannot do much for cost of living. Because inevitably this is out of the gahmen control. You see the oil price rising because of mid east turmoil. Oil price rise cause everything else to rise. Also land in singapore is scarce. Can;t do anything about housing unless plan to be house underwater like seaworld. Even I go to foreign country like Taiwan & australia & new zealand - i can see cost of living rising surely this would impact singapore.
Only thing to do is to control immigration. I dislike PRC people. I don't know why you all encourage them to migrate. Mei you li mao. One day i was talking to a few friends outside a shop own by a PRC guy - he dont like us blocking his biz so he took out his broom and try to sweep us away. Really rude people. I dont understnad why PAP want this kind of people living in your country.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Why compare?
Every country is different.
Why not?Malaysia and singapore has a lot in common - race/language/culture/climate.
plus they are neighbours
plus they used to be 1 country
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
Why not?Malaysia and singapore has a lot in common - race/language/culture/climate.
plus they are neighbours
plus they used to be 1 country
haiz.. still comparing.
never learn...
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
haiz.. still comparing.
never learn...
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Originally posted by speakoutfor:
Dream what? Or are you the one dreaming?You should appreciate what you have. Sure PAP have caused you a bit of inconvenience such as expensive housing/inflation/high ministray salary. But had singapore still been part of malaysia - you be in much worse position.
I think you are the one dreaming and complaining a LOT.