Speaking dialect has its uses
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Nowadays, it is hard to have a very pure dialect,
All are rojak, mixed.
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lan jiao lah...... last time gahment tels us to speak engrish, don speak mandarin, then after that tel us to speak more mandarin instead of dialects, now an zua....?? speak dialects ah.......
å�Šä½ å•Š!!!!!!
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Just like a book, flip here and there.
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Army gt many hokkien vulgarities.
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Originally posted by 4sg:
Maybe what you said is true. But China is a big country and I believe there are still pockets of dialect speaking people there who can communicate dialects in their pure forms.The Teochew I heard from these two China students was indeed in its pure form - not diluted with Mandarin. I know because I wasn't eavesdropping but with them and heard them spoke Teochew among themselves for a long time in its pure form - a rarity I never encounter for a long time.
I believe you heard they are pure. When you said they are not diluted with Mandarin I hope you are not referring just to the sounds only.
But still I have to say, China is a big country, but sadly the Teochew speaking area itself is an extremely small plot of land compared to the whole of China. (consisting of the 4 varieties: http://www.sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/420371#post_10129387) So the number of speakers is not as many as we may think.
I hope the two China students are not only pure in their pronunciation (which we can discern easily), but hope they are also pure in their underlying grammatical structure.
If the Chaozhou kids below 12 years of age are already speaking a Mandarin grammar influenced Teochew, the next generation of Chaozhou people will mark the end of the pure Teochew generation.
There might be pockets of dialects that are still pure, but sadly, these pockets left are made up of old people speaking them. (which is the case happening to the Xuanzhou dialect in the Anhui province)
(Xuanzhou dialect is classified as endangered dialect already, if also nothing is done to Teochew, it will meet with the same fate)
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added: current state of Xuanzhou dialect (from web)
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-sg/%E5%A4%AA%E9%AB%98%E5%B0%8F%E7%89%87 under "方言现状"方言现状
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Originally posted by ditzy:
Its our MM Lee who doesn't want us to use dialects, as it doesn't reap economic benefits lor.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/413581/1/.html
we are not ang mohs. speak english at work but use our own language at home and among friends.
frankly, its parents who should take the blame. we all know why. typical singaporean chinese thinks its more hip to speak english. chinese and all its dialects are so uncool.
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Originally posted by dragg:
we are not ang mohs. speak english at work but use our own language at home and among friends.
frankly, its parents who should take the blame. we all know why. typical singaporean chinese thinks its more hip to speak english. chinese and all its dialects are so uncool.
Dialects is govt bah. Mandarin is ourselves - those parents in the 30s.. and the banana parents in their 40s - 70s...
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Originally posted by Singapore AFOL:
Army gt many hokkien vulgarities.
Later u go China or Taiwan, you say riao.. people say "lu gong xi mi sai?"
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Originally posted by Junyang700:
Later u go China or Taiwan, you say riao.. people say "lu gong xi mi sai?"
Our hokkien is very similar to Taiwan Min nan dialect. -
Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Good info. Got source?
Cant find the source. LOL....
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Originally posted by Singapore AFOL:
Our hokkien is very similar to Taiwan Min nan dialect.our hokkien standard.. i tink above 40 then go taiwan can communicate bah..
those ah bengs and gin-nahs in their 15s to 25s... i tell u.. only vulgarities... go there people really "ni jiang guo-yu bi jiao hao lah, mai xia-suay lah!" -
Originally posted by Junyang700:
our hokkien standard.. i tink above 40 then go taiwan can communicate bah..
those ah bengs and gin-nahs in their 15s to 25s... i tell u.. only vulgarities... go there people really "ni jiang guo-yu bi jiao hao lah, mai xia-suay lah!"
Talk chinese better. -
Originally posted by Junyang700:
our hokkien standard.. i tink above 40 then go taiwan can communicate bah..
those ah bengs and gin-nahs in their 15s to 25s... i tell u.. only vulgarities... go there people really "ni jiang guo-yu bi jiao hao lah, mai xia-suay lah!"
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though it's rojak, it's kinda still traces to our roots.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
though it's rojak, it's kinda still traces to our roots.
may consider rojak dialects but still better than "mandarinised" dialects currently spoken by many.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
may consider rojak dialects but still better than "mandarinised" dialects currently spoken by many.
Clivebenss,
we can bring this discussion to a higher level. Each dialect has it's different levels of "mandarinisation" in Singapore.
For example, I would say that the most "mandarinised" dialect in Singapore is the Hakka dialect, followed by Cantonese dialect, followed by Teochew dialect, followed by Hokkien which is the least easily Mandarinised.
Other than Mandarinisation, there is also Cantonisation in Hakka and in between Teochew and Hokkien, there are mutual Teochewization and Hokkienization between them.
For Singaporean Hockchew, Henghua and Hokchia, they have been "Hokkienized" instead of Mandarinized.
For Singapore Hainanese, they are less "Hokkienized" but no doubt still "Hokkienized" to a certain extent.
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Add: Not all mandarization happened recently in Singapore, you can trace Mandarinization all the way back to Tang Dynasty in the southern dialects. (>> the "Guan Hua"-fying phenomenon and literary bookish readings.
Currently in China, ALL the dialects are undergoing rapid deterioration from Mandarinization.
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all due to that bastard Lee Kuan Yew.
destroyer of cultures, that anglo dog bastard.
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Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:
all due to that bastard Lee Kuan Yew.
destroyer of cultures, that anglo dog bastard.
You also don't always curse curse curse only.
Please participate in fruitful discussions with stuffs and facts can?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
You also don't always curse curse curse only.
Please participate in fruitful discussions with stuffs and facts can?
no choice, whenever this topic comes up I will think of that anglo dog bastard Harry Lee Kuan Yew.
He is the root, the source, the centre of all this destruction of local cultures.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Clivebenss,
we can bring this discussion to a higher level. Each dialect has it's different levels of "mandarinisation" in Singapore.
For example, I would say that the most "mandarinised" dialect in Singapore is the Hakka dialect, followed by Cantonese dialect, followed by Teochew dialect, followed by Hokkien which is the least easily Mandarinised.
Other than Mandarinisation, there is also Cantonisation in Hakka and in between Teochew and Hokkien, there are mutual Teochewization and Hokkienization between them.
For Singaporean Hockchew, Henghua and Hokchia, they have been "Hokkienized" instead of Mandarinized.
For Singapore Hainanese, they are less "Hokkienized" but no doubt still "Hokkienized" to a certain extent.
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Add: Not all mandarization happened recently in Singapore, you can trace Mandarinization all the way back to Tang Dynasty in the southern dialects. (>> the "Guan Hua"-fying phenomenon and literary bookish readings.
Currently in China, ALL the dialects are undergoing rapid deterioration from Mandarinization.
Fusion of languages takes places when different groups of people interact on a continuous basis. Of course Hokkien and Cantonese survived better here because of the larger populations and also the regular airing of Taiwanese and Hong Kong shows.
But if there is any degrade in these media, it will in fact degrade as the spoken dialects here as well.
I'm not sure how bad the situation in China but here dialects are fast going into oblivion.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Fusion of languages takes places when different groups of people interact on a continuous basis. Of course Hokkien and Cantonese survived better here because of the larger populations and also the regular airing of Taiwanese and Hong Kong shows.
But if there is any degrade in these media, it will in fact degrade as the spoken dialects here as well.
I'm not sure how bad the situation in China but here dialects are fast going into oblivion.
Ya lor
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
I'm not sure how bad the situation in China but here dialects are fast going into oblivion.
Don't forget the suppression of dialects in state media here and the rubbish language education system.
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Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:
Don't forget the suppression of dialects in state media here and the rubbish language education system.
my ealier reply:
far too gone, dialects are systematically dismantled in Sg unless those young ones have strong parents that insist on passing down their heritage. That the price we paid for believing and trusting someone everything he said.
his mistake, your rootlessness.
Sorry if this offend anyone.
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Let it die la.
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The question is.....what to do with this situation...
I believe nothing much can be done.
Due to the fact that it is difficult to implement language teaching for different dialect groups (imagine if classrooms need to be separated into many groups), and also due to the fact that Singapore is a compact, tiny, highly densely populated and diverse city. So there is not enough critical mass for each dialect group to flourish and be envigorated. They are spread thinly and are always in contact with other speakers.
If you think dialect deterioration is bad.........actually the whole language situation is bad....
Mandarin is also deteriorating.....
Ask those people who are 1 generation above you....
Most likely they have better command of Mandarin than your present generation.
Mandarin is deteriorating all the time.
English seems to take primary dominant position gradually.
However even this situation is not good, because the majority of English speakers in Singapore are not speaking English properly. Either they have heavy accent or they use Singlish.