Originally posted by Fcukpap:the way of usage can be different from another country and this could be learned and enhanced .... it is not diminishing our own but its origination...the source from which we could learn further
I shall point out that Mandarin Chinese is not the "source" or "origination" of "real Chinese way" as what you may think. Mandarin Chinese as well as all other Chinese dialects are all the "source" or "origination" of "real Chinese way", Mandarin Chinese being no higher or no older than them, and being "on par" with all other Chinese dialects. Being said that, there is no need to emphasize learning or enhancing from just Mandarin Chinese alone, if that is the case, we should learn and enhance from all the regional varieties including Hainanese, Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, etc, etc, etc...
Mandarin Chinese's status is elevated by the political basis, not historical basis nor the "origination" basis. Point to note. Thanks.
nature vs nurture.....both has a role to play of course....to learn further or not is up to individual's choice and curiosity....
nature as to its roots or origination and nurture is the social, cultural and political factors that goes on to elevate or even to misuse for the propagandists as well written by George Orwell.... both dimensions could be understood in different aspects to reveal greater insights to enhance one another...
its only a matter of distinguishing differences of opinions ...and no one is wrong
yeh thank you very much for banning dialects on tv and radio. Thank you very very much. Luckily I still have TVB to catch up on my cantonese.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:Why should we learn from Mandarin language how it is used to express thoughts in the real Chinese way?
Our dialects ("our real mother tongue") is just as good for us to express our thoughts in the real Chinese way as our dialects has been proven to be the direct lineage from the Middle and Old Chinese.
You saying this sounds like you acknowledge Mandarin but not the Chinese dialects as the real Chinese way, you are so wrong, so wrong.
BTW, although in cyber space one's physical properties are unverifiable, I am not a "She".
Mandarin should be for those who want to learn the language, whatever their ethnicity.
The Singapore identity should be kept with English the language for commerce and Singlish and Pasar Malay as the lingua franca for Singaporeans. This would preserve Singapore's diverse cultural and ethnic heritage. A Singaporean identity would also emerge.
China in its moment of madness, had the Red Guards destroyed most of her heritage. Singapore need not go the same path. Preservation of the cultural traditions can only bring about better families and a better nation.
At present a true blue Singaporean can be easily identified as one who can't speak any language well and has shity manners.
And the one holding a pink NRIC would be Singapore Citizen in nationality status only, hardly able to speak a sentence in Malay, and English with a foreign twang.
I guess some thirty years down the road, WikiLeak would come up with a cable that Singapore's drive to speak Mandarin drive was a mistake.
Originally posted by mancha:BTW, although in cyber space one's physical properties are unverifiable, I am not a "She".
Mandarin should be for those who want to learn the language, whatever their ethnicity.
The Singapore identity should be kept with English the language for commerce and Singlish and Pasar Malay as the lingua franca for Singaporeans. This would preserve Singapore's diverse cultural and ethnic heritage. A Singaporean identity would also emerge.
China in its moment of madness, had the Red Guards destroyed most of her heritage. Singapore need not go the same path. Preservation of the cultural traditions can only bring about better families and a better nation.
At present a true blue Singaporean can be easily identified as one who can't speak any language well and has shity manners.
And the one holding a pink NRIC would be Singapore Citizen in nationality status only, hardly able to speak a sentence in Malay, and English with a foreign twang.
I guess some thirty years down the road, WikiLeak would come up with a cable that Singapore's drive to speak Mandarin drive was a mistake.
Well said.
I am just against people who link learning Mandarin as the (only) way or should be the way to get to East Asian values, roots, culture or whatever. I want to point out Mandarin is not the only medium nor the best language, just that it happens to be a popular language or national language elevated by political status that's all.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:yeh thank you very much for banning dialects on tv and radio. Thank you very very much. Luckily I still have TVB to catch up on my cantonese.
For Cantonese people like you, you are so lucky. Not so for other dialects.
Take a look at the below article for the fate of Foochow dialect, even for those in China:
(From Foochow WanBao 2006)
�州晚报调查显示 会说�州�的�少年�到一�
http://news.fznews.com.cn 　 2006-10-19 23:15:56 　 �州新闻网
18日至19日，本报就本市å°�å¦ç”Ÿã€�ä¸å¦ç”Ÿã€�大å¦ç”Ÿå’Œç¤¾ä¼šå·¥ä½œè€…ç‰4ç§�é�’少年使用ç¦�å·žè¯�的情况å�šäº†æŠ½æ ·è°ƒæŸ¥ï¼Œ200ä½™å��é�’å°‘å¹´å�‚与了本次调查。
调查ä¸ï¼Œæˆ‘们了解到，90%以上的é�’少年没有å¦ä¹ ç¦�州方言的打算。å�Œæ—¶ï¼Œ70%以上的é�’少年表示应该ä¿�护ç¦�州方言文化。
大多数�少年��说�州�
调查结果显示，仅有39.04%的�少年日常会说�州�，7.53%的人虽然会说但�愿�说，17.12%的人能�懂但�会说，而36.3%的人既��懂也�会说。
在会说ç¦�å·žè¯�çš„46.57%çš„é�’å°‘å¹´ä¸ï¼Œå�ªæœ‰4.55%的人å�ªè¯´ç¦�å·žè¯�，10.23%的人除在å¦æ ¡æˆ–与é�žç¦�州人交谈情况下都说ç¦�å·žè¯�，43.18%的人ç»�常说ç¦�å·žè¯�，27.27%çš„é�’少年很少说，并有14.77%的人表示除é�žé�‡åˆ°å�¬ä¸�懂普通è¯�的人，å�¦åˆ™ä¸�会说ç¦�å·žè¯�。
ç”±æ¤å�¯è§�，大多数的é�’å°‘å¹´å·²ç»�ä¸�å†�说ç¦�å·žè¯�，更多的是在说普通è¯�。
ä¸�说ç¦�å·žè¯�æ˜¯å› ä¸ºå®ƒéš¾å�¬ï¼Ÿ
在ä¸�说ç¦�å·žè¯�çš„åŽŸå› è°ƒæŸ¥ä¸ï¼Œ45.79%çš„é�’少年表示是自己ä¸�想å¦ï¼Œå‰©ä¸‹çš„éƒ½æ˜¯å› ä¸ºæ²¡æœ‰è‰¯å¥½çš„è¯è¨€çŽ¯å¢ƒã€‚å…¶ä¸ï¼Œ38.32%的人表示由于身边人都ä¸�说ç¦�å·žè¯�，没有è¯è¨€çŽ¯å¢ƒï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥æ²¡å¦ä¼šè¯´ç¦�å·žè¯�，而8.41%çš„äººæ˜¯å› ä¸ºçˆ¶æ¯�ä¸�æ��倡说ç¦�å·žè¯�，还有7.48%的人在å¦äº†ç¦�å·žè¯�å�Žï¼Œæ²¡æœ‰è¯è¨€çŽ¯å¢ƒï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥æ…¢æ…¢é�—忘了。
对于ä¸�会讲ç¦�å·žè¯�çš„é�’少年，在问å�Šä»¥å�Žæ˜¯å�¦æœ‰å¦ç¦�å·žè¯�的打算时，91.59%的人表示没有这个打算，仅有8.41%的人表示以å�Žæœ‰å¦ä¹ ç¦�å·žè¯�çš„å�¯èƒ½ã€‚
在会说ç¦�å·žè¯�çš„é�’å°‘å¹´ä¸ï¼Œ45.45%çš„äººè¡¨ç¤ºå› ä¸ºæ²¡æœ‰è¯è¨€çŽ¯å¢ƒï¼Œå¾ˆå°‘说ç¦�å·žè¯�。23.86%的人认为没有必è¦�说，15.91%的人认为ç¦�å·žè¯�很难å�¬ï¼Œ6.82%çš„äººæ˜¯å› ä¸ºç”¨ç¦�å·žè¯�很难与他人交æµ�而放弃说ç¦�å·žè¯�，7.95%çš„äººè®¤ä¸ºæ˜¯å…¶ä»–åŽŸå› ã€‚
多数人认为应�护�州方言文化
虽然多数é�’少年没有å¦ä¹ ç¦�å·žè¯�的打算，但在调查ä¸ï¼Œ28.77%的人表示ç¦�å·žè¯�å¯¹ä¼ æ‰¿ç¦�州的地方文化风俗作用é‡�大，65.75%的人表示有一定作用，å�ªæœ‰5.48%的人表示没有作用。
在“推广普通è¯�çš„å�Œæ—¶ï¼Œæ˜¯å�¦æœ‰å¿…è¦�对ç¦�州的方言文化进行ä¿�护”这项调查ä¸ï¼Œ72.6%的人æŒ�肯定æ€�度，27.4%的人认为没有必è¦�。
七��少年对评�和闽剧�熟悉
评è¯�和闽剧是ç¦�å·žè¯è¨€æ–‡åŒ–的代表，也是ç¦�å·žçš„é‡�è¦�文化é�—产。但在调查ä¸ï¼Œä»…有15.07%的人熟悉评è¯�和闽剧，13.7%的人表示对æ¤äº†è§£ï¼Œæœ‰42.47%的人仅仅是å�¬è¯´è¿‡è¯„è¯�和闽剧，而竟有28.77%çš„é�’少年表示从æ�¥æ²¡å�¬è¯´è¿‡è¯„è¯�和闽剧。
超å…æˆ�人支æŒ�用ç¦�州方言创作æŒæ›²
在关于ç¦�å·žè¯�唱的æŒæ›²å’Œæ°‘谣有什么看法的调查ä¸ï¼Œ65.75%的人认为æ¤ä¸¾å¾ˆæœ‰åˆ›æ„�，表示支æŒ�，19.18%的人æŒ�有ä¿�ç•™æ„�è§�，11.64%认为用ç¦�州方言创作æŒæ›²å’Œæ°‘è°£æ¯”è¾ƒæ— è�Šï¼Œæ˜¯åœ¨çžŽæŠ˜è…¾ã€‚å�¦å¤–有3.42%的人有其他的看法，如有人表示ç¦�州方言æŒæ›²è™½ç„¶å¥½å�¬ï¼Œä½†ä»–å�¬ä¸�懂。
ç¦�州方言使用环境æ£åœ¨ä¸�æ–缩å°�，ç¦�州方言日æ¸�è�Žç¼©ã€‚我们是å�¦æœ‰å¿…è¦�对ç¦�州的方言文化进行ä¿�护？导致ç¦�州方言日æ¸�è�Žç¼©çš„åŽŸå› æ˜¯ä»€ä¹ˆã€�å©å�è¦�ä¸�è¦�å¦ç¦�州方言ã€�我们è¦�ä¸�è¦�ä¿�护ç¦�州方言ã€�如何ä¿�护ç¦�州方言？
　　
请登录ç¦�州新闻网论å�›ï¼ˆbbs.fznews.com.cn）“家ä½�榕城”论å�›å�‘è¡¨è¯„è®ºï¼Œä½ ä¹Ÿå�¯ä»¥æ‹¨æ‰“晚报采访部çƒçº¿0591ï¼�83722264，或者å�‘é€�邮件至[email protected]è®²è¿°ä½ çš„çœ‹æ³•ã€‚
（�州晚报记者 赵春宇 蒋丽�）
this little fucking anglo dog harry lee kuan yew, he is determined to totally wipe out all of the dialects in Singapore and anglicise the population of Singapore into cultureless freaks like himself.
insecure little bastard. that fucking harry lee kuan yew.
mess up the local cultures.
that little fucking anglo dog should had been killed after wwii for collaborating with Japanese invaders.
he don't dare to talk about his role in WWII.
he can only lie and lie and lie and lie and lie.
fucking bastard, don't even dare to admit that he is peranakan.
worse than a dog.
doesn't dare to debate political issues with real politicians also.
worthless bastard shit of a politician, that Harry Lee Kuan Yew.
Too bad, but scolding him also doesn't work either. It's better if we can help in our part to preserve and use the dialects ourselves.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:Too bad, but scolding him also doesn't work either. It's better if we can help in our part to preserve and use the dialects ourselves.
They will lament the loss in the years to come.
The only ray of light I see is when Harry Lee Kuan Yew dies.
He is the main force in destroying the mother tongue of chinese Singaporeans.
I don't think anyone else is as determined as him to extinct chinese dialects in Singapore.
He has a profound hatred and fear of chinese dialects.
Endangered species?
For goodness sake, Lee Kuan Yew practically filled the entire cabinet with inbred Peranakans.
For the last few decades in Singapore, the top positions in civil service, statutory boards, armed forces, GLCs have all along been going disproportionately to the Peranakans.
That is one reason why Singapore has been run to the ground.
Lee Kuan Yew worked with the Japanese Kempeitai and later the British colonizers to suppress the non-Peranakan Chinese.
That's why he has always been wary of non-Peranakan Chinese and could only entrust power to his own family members and his other Peranakan cronies.
http://tomorrow.sg/archives/2009/02/17/peranakans__going_the_way_of_the.html
Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:The only ray of light I see is when Harry Lee Kuan Yew dies.
He is the main force in destroying the mother tongue of chinese Singaporeans.
I don't think anyone else is as determined as him to extinct chinese dialects in Singapore.
He has a profound hatred and fear of chinese dialects.
Endangered species?
For goodness sake, Lee Kuan Yew practically filled the entire cabinet with inbred Peranakans.
For the last few decades in Singapore, the top positions in civil service, statutory boards, armed forces, GLCs have all along been going disproportionately to the Peranakans.
That is one reason why Singapore has been run to the ground.
Lee Kuan Yew worked with the Japanese Kempeitai and later the British colonizers to suppress the non-Peranakan Chinese.
That's why he has always been wary of non-Peranakan Chinese and could only entrust power to his own family members and his other Peranakan cronies.
http://tomorrow.sg/archives/2009/02/17/peranakans__going_the_way_of_the.html
too far down the drain...
Originally posted by Clivebenss:Becos of the racial mix we speak English as a common medium. This sort of carry on even among our own race. Nothing to be ang moh or anything; it just happen.
The demise of local dialects worsen the situation, the younger generation have no roots to cling to and English is an easy way out. Mandarin may deem too difficult for some as it is of foreign origin (simplified northern dialect 白�).
what you said is not true. its only local chinese who think speaking english is so big deal and something to be proud of. the malays and indians definitely dont use english among their own races. only local chinese think their mother tongue is english. this is so shameful.
btw i speak hokkien at home. i speak hokkien to all my friends.
The ang moh we're using is neither e proper ang moh
Originally posted by mancha:Mandarin is whose mother tongue?
If a Chinese mother speaks Hokkien, or Cantonese, or TeowChew, what is the mother tongue of the children.
What if the government decrees that Cantonese should be the language of the Chinese. The Hokkien, Hainanese, Teowchew, who then can't speak Cantonese are not fit to be Chinese?
Lee Kuan Yew was asked why not Cantonese, when the government embarked on the Speak Mandarin campaign. His reply was: Yes if it will be, if Cantonese, or Hokkien is the main stream language.
So Mandarin is actually a chosen language, it is the language of the elite of ancient China, imposed on the minority, whose freedom to practice their own culture is "guaranteed" by the politicians.
the mother tongue should be the dialect group of the person's father. kids nowadays arent even interested in mandarin do you think they want to learn dialects?
Originally posted by dragg:what you said is not true. its only local chinese who think speaking english is so big deal and something to be proud of. the malays and indians definitely dont use english among their own races. only local chinese think their mother tongue is english. this is so shameful.
btw i speak hokkien at home. i speak hokkien to all my friends.
I not only be able to converse but write in Hokkien. But if you have family members that do not understand (they are not Chinese) I communicate with them in a common medium may it be Malay or English or whatever suitable.
English is not a common tongue but a tool, just like Mandarin or any foreign languages.
Originally posted by Clivebenss:I not only be able to converse but write in Hokkien. But if you have family members that do not understand (they are not Chinese) I communicate with them in a common medium may it be Malay or English or whatever suitable.
English is not a common tongue but a tool, just like Mandarin or any foreign languages.
just to make it clear. i am talking about chinese to chinese. if you have non chinese at home then its a unique situation.
Originally posted by dragg:just to make it clear. i am talking about chinese to chinese. if you have non chinese at home then its a unique situation.
ok.
i do not think dialects will die down but rather it becomes hideous for official reasons...
i still converse in dialects with my close buddies or anyone who share the same frequency....no doubt it becomes a downward trend...lets not confuse or make a big hooha over this issue...if it be gone, let it be gone naturally....but do not shake things up or seek to eliminate it...
if by eliminating dialects we could spruce up ourselves economically or socially, i do not think that is the right direction....what someone doesn't like to hear do not mean we are discriminating against that person...religious tolerance should also be extended to mother tongues and dialects as well....or "multi-lingual/ dialectical tolerance" if u would call it ...
lets not insult those who wish to communicate freely in his or her own desired lingual/dialects....
just let us speak our own minds in our own desired tongue...of course, decently....lol
Originally posted by Clivebenss:I not only be able to converse but write in Hokkien. But if you have family members that do not understand (they are not Chinese) I communicate with them in a common medium may it be Malay or English or whatever suitable.
English is not a common tongue but a tool, just like Mandarin or any foreign languages.
Good to hear that there are still people like you who can write in Hokkien.
In Taiwan they have a standardized set of Hokkien characters for common use.
Attached below are the files for our reference:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zhe73p5z17771y1
http://www.mediafire.com/?k8rj3cy8vud9v8w
http://www.mediafire.com/?g8xx7utymianu8n
http://www.mediafire.com/?s64czwoeqn3vydv