Reveal average surf speed? ISPs say no
They object to Govt's proposal, arguing many factors affect Net speeds
By Jessica Lim
THE three major Internet service providers (ISPs) here have objected to the Government's proposal to get them to disclose average surfing speeds to market their broadband.
StarHub, SingTel and M1 currently market their plans based on their rarely achievable maximum speeds.
In response to the Government's proposal, all three argue that multiple factors affect Internet speeds, making it impossible for them to define an average speed. Any attempts to do so would be inaccurate and misleading, they say.
The proposal came in a consultation paper published last month, which invited public feedback.
In it, the Infocomm Development Authority (IDA) said ISPs here have historically sold their fixed and mobile broadband plans by advertising their top speeds, which are not usually achievable under normal Internet conditions.
By 5pm yesterday, the deadline for submissions, the technology sector regulator had attracted 18 views.
The bulk of respondents were ISPs including the three major players, but there was also a smattering of Internet companies such as Google, ESPN Star Sports, and Skype, as well as two individuals.
In a 20-page statement, SingTel pointed out that average Internet speeds experienced by users vary depending on how many are using the network at any given time. Speeds are also dependent on radio signal quality which can be affected by external interference, it said.
M1 aired similar views. In its response, it said it strongly objects to the proposal for ISPs to state average Internet access speeds as 'there is basically no sound, objective and equitable basis to do so considering the many variables involved'.
It said computer processing speed and power supply would also affect Internet connection, as would the type of operating system used. Instead, it urged the IDA to improve public education on broadband Internet services.
In its response, StarHub said 'requiring operators to disclose expected average Internet access speeds would serve to create even more confusion and disputes with end-users'.
However, players such as Skype applauded the IDA's move to 'improve transparency', provided the information disclosed would help users make an informed choice.
They also agreed with the other point the IDA raised in its consultation paper - that ISPs should not unilaterally block legitimate online content or services. Rules against this are already in place.
For example, an ISP cannot limit the bandwidth for Skype telephone calls to avoid losing out on fixed-line revenues.
The telcos say they agree with the IDA's current policy on this matter.
Mr Foong King Yew, research director with technology research firm Gartner, agreed that there are many factors affecting Internet speeds. However, he said ISPs can do more.
'The companies should still be able to come up with a better gauge of Internet speeds. Providing the maximum speed is vague and it does not give any indication of what paying customers can expect.'
He added that it was predictable that ISPs would be against the proposals because they make it 'easier for consumers to make comparisons'.
The IDA said the responses have generally been positive. It added that it will review the feedback and decide whether its current position is appropriate, and if regulations need to be enhanced or relaxed.
Individuals who submitted feedback, including a Mr Khong Heng Poh, support the average surfing speeds proposal. 'If ISPs are indeed providing the actual speeds as advertised, why not disclose them?' he asked. 'What's there to hide?'
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my download speed only 14mbps. upload only 1mbps.
There's always the difference between what's expected and what's feasible...
declaring average speed is good but how to declare when there are alot of factors to take into consideration? and this differs from areas to indivual household wor...
Indeed it would be confusing...
but is there any way the telco could cooperate on this matter??? I wonder... ... ...
i agree with you on this.
why not advertise the average speed instead?
arent they charging us for something they totally cant deliver?
In response to the Government's proposal, all three argue that multiple factors affect Internet speeds, making it impossible for them to define an average speed. Any attempts to do so would be inaccurate and misleading, they say.
This is hilarious.
While there may be difficulty defining an average speed, that definition should come from IDA so why would they (the telcos) find it difficult to define the average speed?
The current system of never reached or even reached maximum speeds ARE inaccurate and misleading already. If anything, this proposal seems to give a more accurate view.
Originally posted by dragg:i agree with you on this.
why not advertise the average speed instead?
arent they charging us for something they totally cant deliver?
problem is on how to define the average speed...
Depending on indivual workstation, area traffic, interferance etc, there's too much factor to look at...
However are the telco really cooperating and not just give a "not feasible" full stop?
Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
problem is on how to define the average speed...Depending on indivual workstation, area traffic, interferance etc, there's too much factor to look at...
However are the telco really cooperating and not just give a "not feasible" full stop?
the problem now is not just the speed but how much they have been charging for that particular speed they advertised. its obvious they cant deliver anywhere closed enough.
why are they charging us so high? in 2 yrs we will have optics cables. they'll charge us even higher.
mmm...
most erratic is cable de.. if more ppl ard your area is using at e same time, the speed would start to vary depending on the upload content
Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
problem is on how to define the average speed...Depending on indivual workstation, area traffic, interferance etc, there's too much factor to look at...
However are the telco really cooperating and not just give a "not feasible" full stop?
I'm sure an average across singapore or the region you stay is fairly reasonable.
Originally posted by hisoka:I'm sure an average across singapore or the region you stay is fairly reasonable.
hmmm, I'm also thinking an average speed by region is a good idea...
but different equipment would affect the speed too... But having a rough average speed rating across different region is better then nthing...
The current max speed is too misleading...
Originally posted by sbst275:mmm...
most erratic is cable de.. if more ppl ard your area is using at e same time, the speed would start to vary depending on the upload content
on weekends and holidays it virtually stopped.
"requiring operators to disclose expected average Internet access speeds would serve to create even more confusion and disputes with end-users'
lol, isnt posting max speeds also creating confusion.much more misleading than average speeds.
perhaps they feel average speeds is like a benchmark, ppl can use it to argue if they got 'cheated' by the isp, or if they took shortchanged the isp by getting a faster avg speed than what was posted. the max speed way creates a huge guess zone isps can use to thier advantage
Singnet local bandwidth downolad up to 50-200mps; upload 25mps;
Singnet international bandwidth up to max 15mps.
actually quite low.
Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
hmmm, I'm also thinking an average speed by region is a good idea...but different equipment would affect the speed too... But having a rough average speed rating across different region is better then nthing...
The current max speed is too misleading...
yeah equipment would affect the speed, but the average speed is quite obvious and will give the speed for average equipment that people are using.
I forgot to say that they should give the average by time period too. Otherwise they include the 3 to 5 am.............
I heard from my friend that in Japan, their internet speed is very high.
Something like hundred of mbps. And it is cheap too.
Over here, seem like they charge a very high price.
How do you define the average speed? If defined already, one person could be on the lower end of the curve and still want to argue why he's not in the middle portion of the curve? How to win a battle like that? C'mon if I were either telco, I'll STFU about it as well.
"In a 20-page statement, SingTel pointed out that average Internet speeds experienced by users vary depending on how many are using the network at any given time."
I thought they have always marketed themselves as providers of "dedicated lines", whereas StarHub users need to share a single green pipe?
"It said computer processing speed and power supply would also affect Internet connection, as would the type of operating system used."
The fengshui of the room would have a greater impact on the connection speed than whatever power supply unit the computer is using; maybe I should drop my idea of switching to M1 fibre next year.
Originally posted by likeyou:I heard from my friend that in Japan, their internet speed is very high.
Something like hundred of mbps. And it is cheap too.
Over here, seem like they charge a very high price.
hong kong, japan and korea all charge lower and are faster than what we have here.
but then what is new right?
Originally posted by LatecomerX:"In a 20-page statement, SingTel pointed out that average Internet speeds experienced by users vary depending on how many are using the network at any given time."
I thought they have always marketed themselves as providers of "dedicated lines", whereas StarHub users need to share a single green pipe?
"It said computer processing speed and power supply would also affect Internet connection, as would the type of operating system used."
The fengshui of the room would have a greater impact on the connection speed than whatever power supply unit the computer is using; maybe I should drop my idea of switching to M1 fibre next year.
Indeed... I completely cannot understand why PSU will affect internet connection
I agree with ditzy's POV though...