from another topic: "off a bit to above mention of burning paper, few years back I burnt a house with a car to my late dad, and night time I dreamt my late dad driving that car. In the first place it was also my dad who came to my dream telling me he need a house hence I burnt one with a car for him"--LavenderWu
i thinking, it's acceptable now for buddhist funeral to except burning paper money etc. ? nowaday perhaps if a decease did not practice well and end up mostly in ghost realm, they do feel happier when the relative burn paper money for them? since ghosts realm is also a "projection' from the human realm. seeing many examples, perhaps they do "use" paper money? only this recent era, not the past. of coz, better to dedicate merits to them.
Don't think it's acceptable.
Is there use for paper money in the ghost realm? How would "money" there help to truly relieve their sufferings? OK, even if it can buy them an easier life, what if we make them so comfortable in hell they don't want to leave? 好�好�，干么�走啊？ Like in the heavenly realms, because life is too good or made too comfortable, they don't think about practising towards liberation from suffering.
Surely, it would be better for them to swiftly go to better realms; realms in which the Buddhadharma may be practised. Think it's more beneficial to dedicate merits and send metta (loving-kindness).
I am kind of confuse.
Normally it was practise with taoists and buddhists together especailly when you see the wake, normally they will burn the paper house together with cars, etc. so that the deceased will received the gifts from the family.
those in the ghosts/spirits realm will still have their time of rebirth. When the time comes, they will still be reborn accordingly to their own merits.
The spirits realm is just a phrase for them to stay in. Buddhist monks do not stop the families from burning paper materials stuff to them since these families still register their deceased members in the Buddhist praying ceremonies. Slowly, the merits will accumulate and they will be convinced to follow Amitabhva Buddha to His Pureland.
To burn or not to burn is not really the issue here. It's where the spirit will end up ultimately that's more important.
There was an old monk who told me about this true story. He said we could not deny that buring paper house and paper money were not true, afterall taoism had been around for a very long time.
He said there was once he helped a family burnt a paper house for the deceased. The family members came to look for him and told him the deceased let a few of his family members dreamt that he had no place to stay. He was quite puzzled as the house was already burnt during the funeral. One day, he took out the robe that he wore for the funeral and noticed the paper house deed was in his pocket, he had forgotten to burn it during the funeral. He quickly burnt it and no more complaints from the family members about dreaming of the deceased.
However, the old monk told me not to burn paper houses if the family members request for pure Buddhist funernal or the deceased is a Buddhist as we are giving 2 choices for the deceased. To be reborn in better realm or stay in the ghost realm. He said the deceased would most likely choose the later (ghost realm) as what sinwei said 好�好�. In the long run, it is bad for the deceased.
what did the Buddha said about the ghost realm? did he said there were paper houses etc? maybe not, as it was not an Indian custom.
anyway as for buddhist funeral, chanting is also no use to the deceased, as no amount of chanting can reduce the bad karma the deceased has committed. when a person dies, he/she will bring good and bad karma to the next world, where it will determine his/her next rebirth.
However, the old monk told me not to burn paper houses if the family members request for pure Buddhist funernal or the deceased is a Buddhist as we are giving 2 choices for the deceased. To be reborn in better realm or stay in the ghost realm. He said the deceased would most likely choose the later (ghost realm) as what sinwei said 好�好�. In the long run, it is bad for the deceased.
i see.
yes, Buddha never taught. though i think ghost realm is a "copy" or "continuity of attachment" from the human realm. hence it defer from the time and era.
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Part 9 of 施食仪轨：
(已施诸饿鬼悉皆饱满讫。当须以陀罗尼法��。方得归於本所。��解脱真言曰)唵　縛日囉　目　乞�　穆
Om vajra mok tiktha muh (7 times)
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With regards to �食真言/甘露水真言 (施食法), I just remembered that I'd read the above a few months ago...
The rituals for making food and drink edible for ghosts usually ends with a mantra and ritual which liberates them from suffering and punishments. (Is my understanding of the Chinese text correct?)
One sutra ( 佛说救拔焰�饿鬼陀罗尼� ) also states that after the ritual, these ghosts will be able to move on to a better realm.
于其四方有百å�ƒé‚£ç”±ä»–æ�’河沙数饿鬼。å‰�å�„有摩伽陀国七七斛食。å�—æ¤é£Ÿå·²æ‚‰çš†é¥±æ»¡ã€‚是诸鬼ç‰æ‚‰èˆ�鬼身生于天上。
So yes, am just mentioning this to differentiate 施食法 from the burning of paper offerings. The burning of paper offerings gives ghosts comforts, but not liberation.
Btw, never practice rituals to offer food to ghosts (施食法) at home. Such rituals should only be performed in temples under proper guidance of the Sangha.
People with 3rd eye know very well that ghost realm is very suffering, many times more suffering than human realm.
Supposing the deceased during alive done alot of bad things, like back stab, talk bad on people, bad mouth to gain promotion, see pple no up, etc...and that family burnt alot of paper money, big houses, cars, aeroplane, etc to the deceased, will the decease get those thing in the neither world or the deceased need to go for punishment for the bad karma he accumlate?
I am very skeptical on burning stuff that the deceased is able to receive. if burning stuff is authentic, why doesnt the hindus also do the same?
So yes, am just mentioning this to differentiate 施食法 from the burning of paper offerings. The burning of paper offerings gives ghosts beings comforts, but not liberation.
yea, burning of paper money does not liberate.
don't do so if family members request for pure Buddhist funeral. like my grandma funeral, we had Buddhist funeral as i requested, at first without burning money. we are to liberate her to PL or higher realm, so no need to burn paper money as she will not be needing them. but they burned a few as some relative wanted to. no choice, suit them. thinking perhaps as a backup plan, in case the merit was not good enough(wrong thinking). my grandpa, unfortunately did not have a Buddhist funeral. during the period, my aunty dream of her in nice clothing(meaning either in heaven or became a pusa in PL), while my cousin dream of my grandpa standing beside my grandma's tomb(meaning grandma no more in lower realm). the Buddhist funeral help influence a lot of our relatives toward Buddhism.
according to the earlier ghost stories, i'm still confuse whether they(ghosts) literally "use" the burned money, house, etcs. "use" as in really buying, selling things, as in literally got a house for them to live or got a car to drive in the ghost realm. i'm still thinking they don't.? they will still walk about aimlessly, i imagine like u see in zombie movies??
maybe just show a bit of filial piety, like thinking "wah my children burn so many things for me, (even though i cannot use), i'm proud that they still care for me. and so those who spend little, it will think, hmm, this son/daughter no use, spend so little on me." this kind of stuff. hehe :).
i wonder how �食真言/甘露水真言 (施食法) food and drink offering to ghosts came about. perhaps a great bodhisattva can come out with money (luring) "offering" with mantra for liberating ghosts. temperory 满众生愿 fulfill beings wish then liberate them if they accept. plausible.
anyway, following is on :-
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SIGNIFICANCE OF SMOKE OFFERING
It is commonly practiced by Tibetans in appeasing the deceased and repaying Karmic debtors in this and previous lives. The commonly practiced Smoke Offerings are the Morning and Evening sessions respectively, in Tibetan it is called Sur Puja. This method of mind training further reduces the defilement of the mind and is a practice performed throughout the 3 year 3 Month and 3 Forthnight retreats of a Lama on a daily basis.
Morning sessions: O ffering of Food that was burned to create smoke and offered to the Buddhas, Bodhissatvas and other realized beings. This is done in order to accumulate mass merits and also to practice generosity.
Evening sessions: In similar manner as above morning session, and medicinal herbs and pills were added in addition to the food. This offering is made to wandering souls trapped within this Samsara that are unable to take rebirth. It was said the reason these souls that are trapped is mainly due to strong attachment of their previous life prior death. The food were blessed through a series of auspicious prayers chanted with pure motivation and intention to benefit. The tempting smell of smoke attract these souls and thus satisfied their desires and the medicinal pills/herbs tuned their mind so that they realize that they are already dead and thus make their way to another rebirth. Depending on the aspiration and wish of the participants during the ritual, it can also be a practice to repay karmic debt accumulated since beginningless time. In a effective practice and offering, one's practice and daily live will be obstacle free and prospher.
Family members of the deceased normally engage monks to perform the Smoke Puja for a duration of 49 days.
Similarly the hearders of yaks or sheeps in Tibet perform this practice to dispel untoward obstacles and sickness of their herds. They perform both the morning and evening smoke offerings and inbetween sessions they recite the Chenrezig and Guru Rinpoche mantras. This is still actively practice by most Tibetans. Similarly the offering of the body of the deceased commonly known as "Sky Burial". Rather than wasting fuel cremating the body or wasting the edible flesh by burying, they offered it to the birds.
Some even perform other meritorious deeds and dedicate it to the deceased in order to close the doors of the rebirth into the lower realms. There are those who offered everything they possess such as house, animals, food, money to the monastery and then proceed on a pilgrimage journey. Once they return from the pilgrimage trip (normally taking months), they restart their lives anew from scratch. All the merits accumulated throughout the journey and all the good deeds were transfered to the deceased.
Minam Rinpoche highly recommend this practice before one proceed to offer one's own body in the practice of Chöd. This method of offering material goods is to train one's mind towards authentic generosity. Rinpoche also told of some funny stories of Chödpas in Tibet.
Ratnashri Dharma Centre in Malaysia is organizing weekly Smoke Offering on every Sunday 8:30pm. All participants are welcome to bring along family and friends and are advise to bring own food offerings which will be combined with offerings by others. Food such as medicinal herbs, honey, yogurt, biscuits and other edible snacks is recommended. Please do not make meat base offerings as this will inadverntly invite wrathful devas and other spirits that causes obstacles and terror to the vicinity. Normally meat base offerings were done in powerful places such as places where great adepts had the Dharma Wheel were turned or attained enlightenment.
by Ven. Minam Rinpoche
Originally posted by likeyou:Supposing the deceased during alive done alot of bad things, like back stab, talk bad on people, bad mouth to gain promotion, see pple no up, etc...and that family burnt alot of paper money, big houses, cars, aeroplane, etc to the deceased, will the decease get those thing in the neither world or the deceased need to go for punishment for the bad karma he accumlate?
perhaps have to differentiate hell and ghost realm when saying neither world. hell realm, definitely no. ghosts realm, i all along also pretty skeptical in my posts. i think i read in the suttas/sutras, normally, they first enter hell for punishment then, reborn into lower class ghost/animal realm, then into lower class human realm. something like that.?
what does the ghosts get from something that they cannot get is what i'm figuring out. can't say it's an "offering" either. hmm.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:People with 3rd eye know very well that ghost realm is very suffering, many times more suffering than human realm.
Originally posted by sinweiy:
normally, they first enter hell for punishment then, reborn into lower class ghost/animal realm, then into lower class human realm. something like that.?
Shurangama Sutra
"And then, Ánanda, after the living beings who have slandered and broken the precepts, violated the Bodhisattva precepts, slandered the Buddha’s Nirvana, and created various other kinds of karma, pass through many kalpas of being burned in the inferno, they finally finish paying for their offenses (in hell) and are reborn as ghosts.
.....
"Moreover, Ánanda, when his karma as a ghost is ended and the consequences of his emotion and thought are over, he comes into the world to meet his creditors and settle his accounts with them. He is born as an animal to repay his debts from past lives.
...
"Moreover, Ánanda, if while repaying his past debts by undergoing rebirth as an animal, such a living being pays back more than he owed, he will then be reborn as a human to rectify the excess.
http://www.purifymind.com/ShurangamaSutra.htm
Originally posted by Rooney9:I am very skeptical on burning stuff that the deceased is able to receive. if burning stuff is authentic, why doesnt the hindus also do the same?
actually, that's a very good analysis. why even the western funeral from this certain period of time, never got the dreaming issues.
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