Scandal between Mclaren and Ferrari
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Ferrari furious at hearing outcome
Ferrari has responded with anger and disgust to the FIA's decision not to penalise McLaren for possessing leaked data.
At today's extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris, McLaren was found guilty of having broken the sporting code when a 780-page dossier of Ferrari information was found at chief designer Mike Coughlan's home – but was not punished because there was "insufficient evidence" that the team had made use of the data.
This decision has enraged Ferrari, which believes the guilty verdict should have carried a punishment regardless of whether there was proof that McLaren had benefited from the information.
"Ferrari notes that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been found guilty by the FIA World Council," said a Ferrari statement.
"It therefore finds it incomprehensible that violating the fundamental principle of sporting honesty does not have, as a logical and inevitable consequence, the application of a sanction."
The FIA's original summons to McLaren referred only to the team having "unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, including information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula 1 car."
Ferrari vehemently rejected McLaren's defence that the case related only to a rogue individual rather than the team as a whole.
It claimed that the FIA verdict undermined Formula 1.
"Today's decision legitimises dishonest behaviour in Formula 1 and sets a very serious precedent," the statement continued.
"In fact, the decision of the World Council signifies that possession, knowledge at the very highest level and use of highly confidential information acquired in an illicit manner and the acquiring of confidential information over the course of several months, represent violations that do not carry any punishment.
"The fact that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of such information was discovered totally by accident and, but for this, the team would continue to have it.
"This is all the more serious as it has occurred in a sport like Formula 1 in which small details make all the difference.
"Ferrari feels this is highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport."
The team did not make any comment about whether it would appeal against the FIA's decision, but it will continue to pursue the cases it has brought against Coughlan and its former engineer Nigel Stepney, who is the alleged source of the leak.
"It will continue with the legal action already under way within the Italian criminal justice system and in the civil court in England," Ferrari's statement concluded. -
And now Ferrari are considering appealing against the decision.
CEO Jean Todt said the fact McLaren that questioned FerrariÂ’s compliance with the bodywork regulations at the start of the season and called for a clarification of the rules was attributable to inside knowledge of his teamÂ’s designs.
And he claimed the more stringent bodywork deflection tests subsequently introduced – which were believed to hurt Ferrari more than other teams – showed that McLaren had gained an advantage even if it had not incorporated Ferrari designs on its own car.
“During [the WMSC] meeting, the McLaren bosses, with no exceptions, admitted that their chief designer had obtained since back in March, prior to the Australian GP, documents from Nigel Stepney,” said Todt.
“Some of this data was used to prepare a clarification request submitted to the FIA, aimed clearly at us, given that throughout the Melbourne weekend, the McLaren team principal and his closest colleagues made statements in which they threw doubt over ‘some cars’.
“Therefore, such information was in fact used to obtain an advantage over us: not through an improvement in their performance, but instead through limiting ours.
“It is important to underline that the information used to try and damage Ferrari through the FIA might be only a part of the information received by McLaren.”
Todt argued that possession of leaked information was sufficient grounds for a penalty, and said it was unreasonable for the burden of proof to lie with Ferrari.
“As confirmed in that decision yesterday, the violation was already there in the simple possession of the information, which in itself constitutes an enormous advantage in a sport like Formula 1,” he said.
“In Ferrari’s opinion, it is like playing a hand of poker with a rival who already knows what cards you are holding.
“It remains incomprehensible that apart from possession, one must also demonstrate the effective and visible use of this information on the McLaren car.
“Actually, this very same fact, on the basis of available information which the FIA used to find McLaren guilty, shows that the offence lies in the possession without the need to prove anything else.
“The proof is there and this led to the FIA’s decision. Therefore I find it difficult to understand how the verdict makes sense.
“Furthermore, I have to say that the proof of effective use requested by the FIA is impossible for Ferrari to furnish, because of course, Ferrari does not have access to the McLaren car.”
Todt accused McLaren boss Ron Dennis of reneging on an understanding they had reached to establish a better working relationship between the two arch-rival teams.
“A few weeks after the race in Melbourne, the McLaren team principal proposed that we should reach a sort of agreement to establish a better relationship between our two teams, thus avoiding any future denunciations to the sporting authority,” Todt said.
“I replied that I found it impossible to believe him, because on several occasions we had seen that certain commitments had always been disregarded by McLaren.
“There was an exchange of views and, believing in their good faith, I agreed to sign this agreement on 9th June last.
“Since that time and even earlier, McLaren was perfectly aware, not only of the emails sent by their informer within our company, but also of the fact that their chief designer had stayed in contact with him and had received and continued to be in possession of a significant amount of technical information that belonged to us.
“So, on the one hand, they had come to say ‘let us trust one another’, and on the other they were hiding serious facts such as those just stated above, but making no effort to inform us as would have been in the spirit and to the letter of our agreement.” -
The FIA has referred the verdict of the McLaren and Ferrari spying case to its Court of Appeal following a request by the Italian motorsport commission (CSAI).
Ferrari boss Jean Todt had already expressed his fury at the decision, before on Monday CSAI president Liugi Macaluso wrote to FIA president Max Mosley expressing his dissatisfaction with the verdict and urging the governing body to submit the matter to the court of appeal so to give Ferrari a chance to explain its full case.
In MosleyÂ’s reply, he said the matter would be referred to the FIA court, particularly due to the "the importance of public confidence in the outcome".
He added that Ferrari, McLaren and any other team that wished would be allowed to state their positions in the appeal hearing.
“Your letter [Macaluso’s] suggests that the outcome may have been different if the Council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered,” Mosley wrote.
“Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA Court of Appeal under Article 23.1 of the FIA Statutes with a request that the Court hear both Ferrari and McLaren and any other Championship competitor who so requests and determine whether the decision of the WMSC was appropriate and, if not, substitute such other decision as may be just.” -
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I guess thats what politics is all about, it will never end.
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If a burglar's going to whine about being mugged on the way home after robbing a house, I've got only one thing to say: tough sh*t.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:“During [the WMSC] meeting, the McLaren bosses, with no exceptions, admitted that their chief designer had obtained since back in March, prior to the Australian GP, documents from Nigel Stepney,” said Todt.
“Some of this data was used to prepare a clarification request submitted to the FIA, aimed clearly at us, given that throughout the Melbourne weekend, the McLaren team principal and his closest colleagues made statements in which they threw doubt over ‘some cars’.
“Therefore, such information was in fact used to obtain an advantage over us: not through an improvement in their performance, but instead through limiting ours.
“It is important to underline that the information used to try and damage Ferrari through the FIA might be only a part of the information received by McLaren.” -
And the story takes another twist. New evidence of an unknown nature has surfaced. FIA have withdrawn their application for the appeal. The investigation will be re-opened, and on 13 September a World Motorsports Council meeting will take place.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40524
And...
"We have reasonable proof that (Nigel) Stepney was involved in this (attempt to sabotage Ferrari in Monaco)," magistrate Giuseppe Tibis was quoted as saying by the Guardian newspaper on Wednesday.
"We found powder in the fuel, while such a modest quantity was found on the trousers that I was concerned about destroying evidence and am asking for a further study to be undertaken by a judge," said Tibis.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40521 -
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Coulthard, Barrichello and Trulli?
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MCLAREN HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED FROM THE CONSTRUCTORS CHAMPIONSHIP AND FINED $100M.
However, Alonso and Hamilton are still eligible to race for the driver's championship.
The team will be required to present the MP4-23 to the FIA for examination before the start of the next season. -
this is almost disgraceful on the part of FIA...
on the surface, it seems that all that happened was that they got the McLaren staff to come testify..
then a fine of US$100 million was hammered on McLaren.. all the Constructors points were docked too... this means that the TV rights for next year, McLaren gets nothing... the amount of money McLaren loses is staggering...
and.. FIA gets US$100 million?? where does this money go?
the findings to be published will be interesting.. how the hell did FIA come up with all this is amazing.. -
We have to wait until the FIA publish their findings and statement about the evidence. It has to be really damning to warrant such a penalty.
Whatever McLaren lose in TV revenues through their disqualification will be deducted from that US$100 million. -
I just got the news
I think they deserve it, i think its ''one for all, all for one''.
One of your team member has stuff that they should not have, the whole team should be punished. -
what i don't get is that the technology 'stolen' is still being used by the drivers...
if they wanted to hammer McLaren for actual espionage, the drivers should not be allowed to race in those cars..
makes one wonder if the FIA is biased to Ferrari... it would seem so when Schuey was around.. he could get away with murder... even when he did the indefensible, he still got off with a light slap on the wrist... -
I think there was a lot of pressure on the FIA (especially from Ferrari) to do something about it, without harming the spectacle in the drivers' championship.
It's quite different from spy photography that's already taking place...even the FIA post drawings of each teams chassis updates on their website.
I'm waiting for the full report to judge for myself. -
its amazing how mcclaren become so consistent this season.
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well, one could say the same thing for Ferrari a couple of seasons ago...
or Williams when they had that bulletproof Renault engine which won Mansell the championship..
and McLaren with Prost and Senna... and the beginning of the Mika Hakkinnen and David Coulthard partnership..Originally posted by dragg:its amazing how mcclaren become so consistent this season. -
There's no argument that Coughlan had the document in his possession, but the case the FIA has to make is that information from the 780-page ferrari document was used to design the car. I'd like to see them prove that.
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can they even hope to prove it?
that's the US$100million question...Originally posted by Gedanken:There's no argument that Coughlan had the document in his possession, but the case the FIA has to make is that information from the 780-page ferrari document was used to design the car. I'd like to see them prove that. -
mclaren was crap last season..tis season suddenly super top form...only an idiot will believe mclaren didnt use the stolen datas to improve their performance tis season..
i applaud FIA decision to strip them of the constructer pts...penalising their drivers is NO NO cos its no their fault n they really drive their hearts out...but 100m fine is bit too little..should be at least 300m -
this is shocking... 100 million
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why the hell did they not do anythign about the drivers? if technical information was used to hamper other cars or improve theirs doesn't it give an unfair advantage?
or maybe its just a matteer o f politics and whether it will affect the interests in the race? -
cos if u penalised the drivers, u effectively kill of the season..who the hell wanna go watch the remaining races??..tat will cost more than 100m...moreover, its not the drivers fault in driving those cars...n also, u still need a very gd driver to win races with the best car..u cant deny both of them driving their hearts outOriginally posted by hisoka:why the hell did they not do anythign about the drivers? if technical information was used to hamper other cars or improve theirs doesn't it give an unfair advantage?
or maybe its just a matteer o f politics and whether it will affect the interests in the race? -
in other words, the FIA is more interested in gouging people for money than actual justice
man... lau lee and his ministers would fit well in there
btw, McLaren fixed their problems off-season.. they have a knack of doing that if you have been following F1.. remember the season where they had a severely underpowered Cosworth engine? with the genius of Senna, they stil managed to pull off a few winsOriginally posted by Inzaghi:cos if u penalised the drivers, u effectively kill of the season..who the hell wanna go watch the remaining races??..tat will cost more than 100m...moreover, its not the drivers fault in driving those cars...n also, u still need a very gd driver to win races with the best car..u cant deny both of them driving their hearts out
