If heaven was perfectly blissful
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
again, u have to read and understand why God sent his beloved Son to die for our sins liao...n u r making your own prophecy...
Ahh... why do u think heaven will be different in singapore. if someone cut the Q when u board the bus in heaven, will u be angry about it ? No one says tat people who cut Queues will not be allowed in heaven u know... people who spit out gum and anyhow throw rubbish r allowed in heaven too isn't it ? People in KL can go to heaven too isn't it ? In fact they could have come from the most ungracious, rudest country in the world too. In fact the people who go to heaven can be rude, and ingracious... as long as they believe in christ, they can reach heaven. Why do u think they will change when they reach heaven ? Even in your church, there r some people u do not like or some people perform action which piss u off too isn't it ? U may be living with them again in heaven too. In fact things could be worse... They don't have to be good anymore since they r already in heaven isn't it ? They can now do anything they like or want.
Do u gossip now ? DO u think in heaven u will not gossip about other people ? Do u argue with your family/spouse/children etc now ? Do u think u will not argue with them when u reach heaven ? Everything still remains the same isn't it ?
yeah, those who pissed you are bad ppl...but they are good to others.......aaaaaa....dun wana explain again...look at my reply to ur earlier post.
As I said, one will get punished for God does not condone sin even he forgives him/her. Adhere to God's Way and u will be a better person. To feel that life is fair, be fair to urself, only then u will be able to accept God's provisions. -
There must be some different in Heaven compare to Singapore in order to be called Heaven, isn't it? All your points in based on there are no different in Heaven compare to where we are living here. The example I used to compare KL and Singapore is showing you the different between 2 places will cause someone act differently.
Wat is the diffference u hope will be ? U r telling me tat people behave differently in different places, I am trying to tell u people perceives things differently in different places. To u, spitting or throwing rubbish is something undesirable, to some people from other countries, they treat such habits as norm, and felt u r just being fussy and thought yourself as high up. These people r going to the same heaven as u. When they reach there, they may still end up spitting everywhere or throwing rubbish everywhere againLike I mention b4, you don't see the bad part of the people in Heaven, you only see the good part. That's mean even if someone cut your queue, throw rubbish everywhere...etc, you won't angry or hate them, because you still see them as loving son of their parents, you still see them as loving parents of their children and you still see them as loving people of Heaven.
Why will tat be ? U see the bad part of people now isn't it ? Why will tat view drastically change when u reach heaven ? People spitting in singapore and people spitting in heaven, u will still felt disgusted about it. In fact u will even felt more disgusted as they r doing something so off to such a "holy" place. Wat happen when someone spit onto your head accidentally ? U see only the good side of tis guy only ? Sorry man, maybe u r a saint and will not get angry, but I guess there most people, regardless whether they r in singapore or in heaven, will.It really good to see you wrote all this...means u question everything...nuthing under the carpet...but with a closed heart. Not here to convince u but let's stop and think carefully...
He never do tat.. he just ask whether r u a christian or not.. if u r, *boink* off to heaven. BTW u r a bit off topic... I am saying all these people will go to heaven ! The sinners, the serial killers, the insane, the rude, the selfish, the inconsiderate people all go to heaven ! Then wat will heaven be ?? Eventually it will turn out to be like earth again !
You thought? Are you defining according to your standard nt God's as stated in the Bible? Tell me, I may be a good person to some, but bad-mouthed by others. Am I bad or good? Someone cant get along with you, he says u r bad...You say he's bad. You like a person but he's hated by someone. A serial killer is bad coz he killed someone but he's filial to parents his whole life and kind to animals, is he good? I may nt killed anyone, but I'm cruel to my siblings or parents. Am I good? We are branding each other with different labels - good n bad or neutral. Bei gum mah. Who's good? How many demerit points for kicking a dog, telling a lie, injure someone? How many merit points to for helping an old lady across the road? Do u know your total demerit points and merit points before u die? which one is more? who keeps track of ur points? Does God say "stupidissmart, u miss by a point, u can't enter heaven"? You dun even know how many points u have chalked up. God never does tt...Saying u are living in heaven now is self-deceiving...i may nt know u but i know u feel sad at times. e.g. when ur closed ones pass away. In heaven, nobody is sad cuz everyone has gone back to God's side and rejoice.
I am sad but I am not sad ONLY when people pass away. I am angry when people offend me or disgusted when peopel perform disgusting actions. In heaven, u r gonna suffer these same things as u do in here.again, u have to read and understand why God sent his beloved Son to die for our sins liao...n u r making your own prophecy...
I have read and frankly I have many doubts about tis. There seems to ba a whole thread about it in the past before. Just a question for u... why does god want to sacrifice his son to forgive when he could have just forgive directly ? After forgiving, is there any changes to our world ? U still get pain, u still have to work and u still die... I thought god give us these punishments just because adam eat a fruit ? He never forgives isn't it ?Adhere to God's Way and u will be a better person.
I don't know man... does starting wars, eliminating clans and killing people who is rude to holy people make u a better person ? -
the world is complex....there are too many ppl who claim their way is God's Way.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don't know man... does starting wars, eliminating clans and killing people who is rude to holy people make u a better person ?
I can only say walk close to God and He will show you His Way n you will see clearer and bigger picture. -
I understand your point. The fact remain that when you living in Japan long enough you will bow.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Wat is the diffference u hope will be ? U r telling me tat people behave differently in different places, I am trying to tell u people perceives things differently in different places. To u, spitting or throwing rubbish is something undesirable, to some people from other countries, they treat such habits as norm, and felt u r just being fussy and thought yourself as high up. These people r going to the same heaven as u. When they reach there, they may still end up spitting everywhere or throwing rubbish everywhere again
Why? Because that's why it called Heaven. Like I said, if there is no different in Heaven and Singapore, then why they call it Heaven? Maybe for your "scientific" mind, you may see it this way...Heaven have different gravity, air, chemical compound, magnetic field, full of strange energy and that's make one behave differently.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why will tat be ? U see the bad part of people now isn't it ? Why will tat view drastically change when u reach heaven ? People spitting in singapore and people spitting in heaven, u will still felt disgusted about it. In fact u will even felt more disgusted as they r doing something so off to such a "holy" place. Wat happen when someone spit onto your head accidentally ? U see only the good side of tis guy only ? Sorry man, maybe u r a saint and will not get angry, but I guess there most people, regardless whether they r in singapore or in heaven, will. -
the world is complex....there are too many ppl who claim their way is God's Way.
Sorry man.. the above examples r actions tat god had performed himself, not the followers. Surely god's actions is god's way ?
I can only say walk close to God and He will show you His Way n you will see clearer and bigger picture.I understand your point. The fact remain that when you living in Japan long enough you will bow.
There r people who live in japan/spain all their life and they still anyhow throw rubbish and anyhow spits.Why? Because that's why it called Heaven. Like I said, if there is no different in Heaven and Singapore, then why they call it Heaven? Maybe for your "scientific" mind, you may see it this way...Heaven have different gravity, air, chemical compound, magnetic field, full of strange energy and that's make one behave differently.
Then since god hated men to sin so much, he should have put all those chemical compound, different gravity etc into the human world now so we will not sin isn't it ? Why doesn't he do tat ? To play with us again ?
U look forward to heaven without knowing why or how or whether it exists... God is not known to tell its victims wat is gonna happen to them in future either. -
Don't forget it is human choose to disobey God and in result being punished to leave Eden. Not God want to play with you and purposely put you in Singapore.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Then since god hated men to sin so much, he should have put all those chemical compound, different gravity etc into the human world now so we will not sin isn't it ? Why doesn't he do tat ? To play with us again ?
I think everyone know "why" they look forward to heaven (who don't want to go to such a nice place). "How"? The bible already state clearly how a sined man can go heaven. God did mention what will happen after life in Bible clearly.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U look forward to heaven without knowing why or how or whether it exists... God is not known to tell its victims wat is gonna happen to them in future either. -
Don't forget it is human choose to disobey God and in result being punished to leave Eden. Not God want to play with you and purposely put you in Singapore.
Don't forget tat there r other people beside adam and eve initially. He punish the whole group of people and living beings (all living beings die just because adam eat a fruit, wat does he have to do with the birds, trees and other people ? ) just because his gardeners eat a fruit. God never really forgive adam for eating the fruit even when he sacrifice his own son either. God don't want to play with me ? Then god probably just like to watch people in misery...I think everyone know "why" they look forward to heaven (who don't want to go to such a nice place). "How"? The bible already state clearly how a sined man can go heaven. God did mention what will happen after life in Bible clearly.
Why do u think heaven is a nice place ? Because of legends ? In the colonial past, people promise chinese tat america is a good place to stay. When they had arrive there then do they realise wat is living hell. The truth and legend r 2 completely different things
10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[1] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits[2] thick,[3] by man's measurement, which the angel was using. 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[4] 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. 6The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."
From the description, it appears tat heaven is just all decorative... they have a gem here and there, streets make of glass or gold etc.. tat is it... All the names tat appear in the book still manage to go there and they go there to be god's slave. There is no other desciption on it anymore. Doesn't tat sounds like "america" to the chinese in the past ? -
He never do tat.. he just ask whether r u a christian or not.. if u r, *boink* off to heaven. BTW u r a bit off topic... I am saying all these people will go to heaven ! The sinners, the serial killers, the insane, the rude, the selfish, the inconsiderate people all go to heaven ! Then wat will heaven be ?? Eventually it will turn out to be like earth again !
off topic.?.no we are still "pointing" the same thing but "walking" in parallel. Read carefully what I wrote the prev post on the good the bad one...I couldn't completely comprehend what God's thinking for His wisdom is like a dessert, mine a grain of sand.
When I'm in doubt, I pray to Him for an answer. Plonk! He answered straight away.
Right now, in changi prison, there are ppl who are sentenced to death, leaving their loved ones..the unbearable pain of separation is one of the punishments...what abt those with young kids who need support and the permanent treatment they wld get from other ppl? If you dun get it, ur loved ones will get it. Nt forgetting the ultimate punishment when the death sentence is fixed...knowing there's no second chance to change anymore. Yes, they confess their sins to God. God forgives them, but look what punishments they get?
I am sad but I am not sad ONLY when people pass away. I am angry when people offend me or disgusted when peopel perform disgusting actions. In heaven, u r gonna suffer these same things as u do in here.
how sure are you? Have u made a trip to heaven? You're making another prophecy here again. Does God have to follow what u imagined it to be?
Yes, who wun feel angry or sad when being hurled insults at? To me, God is always around me and He can heal my hurt which I think is impossible to heal.
I have read and frankly I have many doubts about tis. There seems to ba a whole thread about it in the past before. Just a question for u... why does god want to sacrifice his son to forgive when he could have just forgive directly ? After forgiving, is there any changes to our world ? U still get pain, u still have to work and u still die... I thought god give us these punishments just because adam eat a fruit ? He never forgives isn't it ?
God does nt punish u for things u r nt responsible. Life is unfair nt because God is unfair but you are unfair to yourself. I used to think the same way as u. Saying why God is so unfair....why there's pain and suffering...I didn't eat the fruit what...but He saved me and took away my pain. I'm happier and stronger than ever now.
What Jesus does is what God does. What Jesus speaks is what God speaks. Jesus is God for His promise is the promise of God. Jesus is God because Jesus does only what God can do - performing miracles after miracles. Its all over in The Bible. -
I didn't know that beside Adam and Eve, there are other people around when Adam and Eve started the original sin.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Don't forget tat there r other people beside adam and eve initially. He punish the whole group of people and living beings (all living beings die just because adam eat a fruit, wat does he have to do with the birds, trees and other people ? ) just because his gardeners eat a fruit. God never really forgive adam for eating the fruit even when he sacrifice his own son either. God don't want to play with me ? Then god probably just like to watch people in misery...
Why you said "God never really forgive adam for eating the fruit even when he sacrifice his own son either"? Anything to support this?
How Heaven look like, it is still heaven....maybe its sound like America to you, but that doesn't mean that it is America. You resist gold & jewels? -
off topic.?.no we are still "pointing" the same thing but "walking" in parallel. Read carefully what I wrote the prev post on the good the bad one...I couldn't completely comprehend what God's thinking for His wisdom is like a dessert, mine a grain of sand.
When I'm in doubt, I pray to Him for an answer. Plonk! He answered straight away.
U r still off topic. I am talking about heaven and u r still talking about who go into heaven Please elaborate
U cannot comprehend god's thinking, then how do u know he is not lying to u ? Why don't u ask him the questions I have asked and see if there r any answers ?Right now, in changi prison, there are ppl who are sentenced to death, leaving their loved ones..the unbearable pain of separation is one of the punishments...what abt those with young kids who need support and the permanent treatment they wld get from other ppl? If you dun get it, ur loved ones will get it. Nt forgetting the ultimate punishment when the death sentence is fixed...knowing there's no second chance to change anymore. Yes, they confess their sins to God. God forgives them, but look what punishments they get?
HUH !!?!? The unbearable pain of seperation (death) is done by god just because adam eat a fruit bah... SO wat about those childrens who need support ? U r still out of point as we r talking about the conditions of heaven. U tell me tis and tat, but isn't all of these out of point ? U tell me there r people on death sentence ?? SO ? Wat has tat got to do with heaven condition ? U tell me they live children behind, SO ? Wat has tat got to do with living conditions in heavan ? U tell me they confess their sins to god, SO ? Wat has tat got to do with living conditions in heaven ? R u going to tell me tat we should forgive every criminals just because they confess their sins ? Is tat fair to the victim of his crimes ? IF "sorry" is a solution, then we wouldn't need policemenhow sure are you? Have u made a trip to heaven? You're making another prophecy here again. Does God have to follow what u imagined it to be?
True, I have never been to heaven. But the point I am trying to drive is SO DOES U. Why do u think heaven will be milk and honey ? If anyone who just believe in christ get to be in, then wouldn't tat make heaven the same as earth ?
Yes, who wun feel angry or sad when being hurled insults at? To me, God is always around me and He can heal my hurt which I think is impossible to heal.
God is around u always ? I thought I heard tat wording by taoists, hindu etc too. I think u should give yourself more credit when u have recover from your hurtGod does nt punish u for things u r nt responsible. Life is unfair nt because God is unfair but you are unfair to yourself. I used to think the same way as u. Saying why God is so unfair....why there's pain and suffering...I didn't eat the fruit what...but He saved me and took away my pain. I'm happier and stronger than ever now.
Am I responsible for eating the fruit of wisdom ? Adam ate it but not me isn't it ? Why am I suffering for his mistake ? U still have not answer why does god have to sacrifice his son for himself for him to forgive us when he can just directly forgive ? If he really forgives us, then he should have forgive the sin done by Adam (punishment for eating fruit is
To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."
To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
)
In short, pregnancy pains, work and death. If god forgives man, he should have relieve us of these punishments isn't it ? But clearly he did not since we still have pregnancy pains, we still had to work and we still have to die.I didn't know that beside Adam and Eve, there are other people around when Adam and Eve started the original sin.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [2] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
Tat is in genesis 1, on the 6th day men and women r already on the earth. It is after tat in genesis 2 then he start to create adam and eve. Before adam and eve, there r already men and women. As least tat was claimed by some christians here before.How Heaven look like, it is still heaven....maybe its sound like America to you, but that doesn't mean that it is America. You resist gold & jewels?
No, but it doesn't say tat the people there will suddenly become perfect but remains as wat they normally r. Hence heaven in the end will still become like earth since the people there r still very much the same. Gold and jewels ? Wat is the point of having them when there r too much of them around ? -
U r still off topic. I am talking about heaven and u r still talking about who go into heaven Please elaborate
Since you complain tt in the end, heaven will be like earth...Then can u tell me who shld go to heaven? You answer my question. Let me hear your perfect answer, please. Ho rang in? The ones you like? ppl who stepped on ur toes can go n die? Answer me this, I will elaborate y i said all these after u answer.
U cannot comprehend god's thinking, then how do u know he is not lying to u ? Why don't u ask him the questions I have asked and see if there r any answers ?
Let me ask u back again, if u never bow before Him n pray to Him to ask for answer, why would u say He lied or I got an answer from Him? If I tell u, you might say "aiya, u say one mah...sui xian xing?" Many times He answered my doubts, u believe dun rite?
wait.... God loves to answer ppl who truly believes in Him.
if u want to know the condition of Heaven n dun want those benefit of doubts (coz the doubt part I can't help u, only u urself..open ur heart heart heart as well...nt only the head), u can ask Him straightaway too... believe in Him n pray to Him.
U tell me they confess their sins to god, SO ? Wat has tat got to do with living conditions in heaven ? R u going to tell me tat we should forgive every criminals just because they confess their sins ? Is tat fair to the victim of his crimes ? IF "sorry" is a solution, then we wouldn't need policemen
Indeed, as humans, its very hard to pass the forgiveness test...
As I said again n again n again n again n again n again n again, God forgives our sins but does nt condone sins....does not u can commit crime...
Its almost impossible for us to forgive for we are nt as perfect as God(I usually pray to God for the strength to forgive someone)...very hard n takes very long time....
[b]True, I have never been to heaven. But the point I am trying to drive is SO DOES U. Why do u think heaven will be milk and honey ? If anyone who just believe in christ get to be in, then wouldn't tat make heaven the same as earth ?
No, never been there too..haa haa....
I trust God with faith becoz He has shown me times n times again...
u dun trust....tts the dividing difference...
God is around u always ? I thought I heard tat wording by taoists, hindu etc too. I think u should give yourself more credit when u have recover from your hurt
u hear this u hear that..have u experienced it urself? Funny, u still on running on the same spot, hearing some ppl run to outerspace u also believe... -
God is does not need to use wall hack, for he is server.
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Satan: wtf stop changing the gravity!!!Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:God is does not need to use wall hack, for he is server. -
Since you complain tt in the end, heaven will be like earth...Then can u tell me who shld go to heaven? You answer my question. Let me hear your perfect answer, please. Ho rang in? The ones you like? ppl who stepped on ur toes can go n die? Answer me this, I will elaborate y i said all these after u answer.
Simple... the whole idea of a heaven and its expectations is flawed
I don't believe tat heaven will exists when people r its resident. But however if u force me to say which group of people to go in, then I will suggest people who had done good deeds substantially more than bad ones regardless of religion should be in. But then heaven is still not going to be your idea of heaven even in tis case, but more close to it.Let me ask u back again, if u never bow before Him n pray to Him to ask for answer, why would u say He lied or I got an answer from Him? If I tell u, you might say "aiya, u say one mah...sui xian xing?" Many times He answered my doubts, u believe dun rite?
No, I don't know if he is lying to u or not, tat is why I am asking u tis question. If u don't understand a fellow at all, how do u know he is being honest in his answer to u ? He appeared to have hid the fact of why he made dinosaurs extinct isn't it ? And don't go around telling me noah ark since it is proven tat dinosaurs and men never live side by side to each other at any time.if u want to know the condition of Heaven n dun want those benefit of doubts (coz the doubt part I can't help u, only u urself..open ur heart heart heart as well...nt only the head), u can ask Him straightaway too... believe in Him n pray to Him.
No, I am asking u how is it logically realised. Any tom, dick and harry can propose any ideas they want. It is up to us to make some questions about in detailed to see if they r telling the truth. If they fail to answer the detailed questions properly, then it is probably telling a lieAs I said again n again n again n again n again n again n again, God forgives our sins but does nt condone sins....does not u can commit crime...
Then wat is your purpose in stating the earlier statement ?
Right now, in changi prison, there are ppl who are sentenced to death, leaving their loved ones..the unbearable pain of separation is one of the punishments...what abt those with young kids who need support and the permanent treatment they wld get from other ppl? If you dun get it, ur loved ones will get it. Nt forgetting the ultimate punishment when the death sentence is fixed...knowing there's no second chance to change anymore. Yes, they confess their sins to God. God forgives them, but look what punishments they get?
Wat is it about ? U r telling me god forgives them, but appeared to be dissappointed tat they still get punishment too. Wat is the message u r trying to bring across ?No, never been there too..haa haa....
Faith again.... aiiii.... forget it... I don't wanna mention faith for the countless times again...
I trust God with faith becoz He has shown me times n times again...
u dun trust....tts the dividing difference...u hear this u hear that..have u experienced it urself? Funny, u still on running on the same spot, hearing some ppl run to outerspace u also believe...
Yah lor.. I also hear tis christian say tis, tat christian say tat too. If I believe them, then wat is the difference between believing some ppl run to outerspace ? -
Yes, in Genesis 1 it mentioned God created man and woman on the 6th day. In Genesis 2, it just goes into detail on the steps and how God create man and woman, that is Adam and Eve. So, these first 2 human committed sin and being punish to leave heavenly Eden and that's why you end up in Singapore. Don't blame God for playing with you, it is human choice to leave Eden.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat is in genesis 1, on the 6th day men and women r already on the earth. It is after tat in genesis 2 then he start to create adam and eve. Before adam and eve, there r already men and women. As least tat was claimed by some christians here before.
Bible didn't mention that Heaven will be same as Earth neither, in fact it does describe Heaven as a place very much different from Earth. What is the point of having Gold and Jewels? Maybe that is the elements needed to create Heaven such that its different from Earth? Who know? Who care?Originally posted by stupidissmart:No, but it doesn't say tat the people there will suddenly become perfect but remains as wat they normally r. Hence heaven in the end will still become like earth since the people there r still very much the same. Gold and jewels ? Wat is the point of having them when there r too much of them around ? -
Yes, in Genesis 1 it mentioned God created man and woman on the 6th day. In Genesis 2, it just goes into detail on the steps and how God create man and woman, that is Adam and Eve. So, these first 2 human committed sin and being punish to leave heavenly Eden and that's why you end up in Singapore. Don't blame God for playing with you, it is human choice to leave Eden.
Okie, then why r the birds, vegetations and beasts punish with pregnancy, death and work too ? Have they eaten the fruit of wisdom ? Why doesn't god forgive the sin of adam and eve even when he sacrifice his own son to himself ?
BTW, if god is all-knowing, he should have already knew tat adam and eve is gonna eat the fruit of wisdom. Why doesn't he prevent them from eating it ? Why doesn't he want us to know wat is good and evil ? Only by knowing then should we avoid committing evil deeds isn't it ? So his actual intentions is to make us commit evil unknowingly ?Bible didn't mention that Heaven will be same as Earth neither, in fact it does describe Heaven as a place very much different from Earth. What is the point of having Gold and Jewels? Maybe that is the elements needed to create Heaven such that its different from Earth? Who know? Who care?
Since u don't care, then forget it.... -
God didn't give birds, vegetations and beasts a soul, they are created to serve human. God didn't punish them, it is their nature to be like that in order to serve human.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Okie, then why r the birds, vegetations and beasts punish with pregnancy, death and work too ? Have they eaten the fruit of wisdom ? Why doesn't god forgive the sin of adam and eve even when he sacrifice his own son to himself ?
BTW, if god is all-knowing, he should have already knew tat adam and eve is gonna eat the fruit of wisdom. Why doesn't he prevent them from eating it ? Why doesn't he want us to know wat is good and evil ? Only by knowing then should we avoid committing evil deeds isn't it ? So his actual intentions is to make us commit evil unknowingly ?
God did forgive everyone by sacrifice his own son, that's why now you have a chance to get back to his side by confess your sin. Before that, the only choice human have is dead.
God know everything, doesn't mean that he want to control everything. God give Adam and Eve the freedom to make their own choice and warn them specifically. So, don't blame God for what choices we made.
Without the snake, Adam and Eve didn't know anything evil, why do you think they need to know how to differential good and evil while they are only have good in their life? They already know the good and they don't need to know any evil, got it? Like I said, living in Heaven you only see the good part. -
God didn't give birds, vegetations and beasts a soul, they are created to serve human. God didn't punish them, it is their nature to be like that in order to serve human.
So animals won't feel pain and won't feel sad ? I thought animals can serve men better if they do not die isn't it ? It will be better if animals do not experience pains and problem of labour either. Isn't tis a sign to show tat god like to punish beings in a group ? The animals and vegetation has done no wrong and they get punish too. Is it fair for them ? So I guess christians believe tat animal abuse is perfectly okay. Why ? The one tat had abuse animals most is already god himself ! There is nothing wrong in following its actions isn't it ? Another question is, wat happen to animals when they die since they do not have a "soul" ?
BTW, i thought the snake can talk and think in the garden of eden. So wat do u mean by having no soul ?God did forgive everyone by sacrifice his own son, that's why now you have a chance to get back to his side by confess your sin. Before that, the only choice human have is dead.
In the past, OT also claims the same thing. U too have a chance to be back to his side. OT never claims tat man your only choice is dead. God still bear a grudge against adam and eve for eating the fruit of wisdom ? If he forgives, he should have forgiven all the things tat men had done, including wat adam and eve had done. Isn't tat showing he does not forgive as he claims he had ?
Christ is sacrificed, and nothing physical has changed. Isn't tat a sign tat it may all be a hoax ? I mean, talk is simple... he say tat god forgive us of our sin, and we see no changes in life ! How do we know it really happened ? Isn't it being just a mere folkstory make more sense ?God know everything, doesn't mean that he want to control everything. God give Adam and Eve the freedom to make their own choice and warn them specifically. So, don't blame God for what choices we made.
If god knows tat adam and eve is gonna eat the fruit of wisdom, he should have set the fiery sword tat turn in anyway on the tree in the first place. He didn't do anything to prevent it from happening. He want it to happen. If he want us to make a choice, he shouldn't have attached a punishment clause if we make a wrong decision. Tis is no longer a choice really. It is a rule or a law tat was set.Without the snake, Adam and Eve didn't know anything evil, why do you think they need to know how to differential good and evil while they are only have good in their life? They already know the good and they don't need to know any evil, got it? Like I said, living in Heaven you only see the good part.
Why not ? They r committing evil when they r naked isn't it ? Tat is why they cover themselves up with when they ate the fruit. I was wondering why does god want them to create evil by making them naked... If they do not know wat is good and evil, they would not have realise tat the snake is making them commit evil when it asked them to eat the fruit. The snake do not know tat he has committed an evil deed by asking eve to eat either. He is probably driven by an inate drive to eat only. They would not have realise tat eating the fruit is an evil deed. They would not have know tat being disobedient to god is a wrong act to do. SO can we blame them for eating the fruit ? I thought a chinese saying goes, "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime"
Heaven is probably worse than earth if u do not know wat is a wrong act to dothen. U don't know wat is a good act to do or bad act to do. Maybe something as trivial as stepping on the wrong stone in heaven may send u spiralling to hell. When u commit it, then u get severely punished. -
I didn't said animals won't feel pain and sad, but it is just their nature and what they are design as. What you thought about how animals should be, it is just what you thought, you are not God, you don't know what is perfect. No, Christians do not believe that animal abuse is okay. God create them to serve us, doesn't mean that we have right to abuse them. Just like you hire a house maid to serve you, doesn't mean that you have the rights or it is the right thing to abuse her, right? Your car didn't have a "soul" as well, if one day your car "die"...what happen to it? That will explain what happen to those animals.Originally posted by stupidissmart:So animals won't feel pain and won't feel sad ? I thought animals can serve men better if they do not die isn't it ? It will be better if animals do not experience pains and problem of labour either. Isn't tis a sign to show tat god like to punish beings in a group ? The animals and vegetation has done no wrong and they get punish too. Is it fair for them ? So I guess christians believe tat animal abuse is perfectly okay. Why ? The one tat had abuse animals most is already god himself ! There is nothing wrong in following its actions isn't it ? Another question is, wat happen to animals when they die since they do not have a "soul" ?
BTW, i thought the snake can talk and think in the garden of eden. So wat do u mean by having no soul ?
I told you already, since Jesus die, God already forgive everything, every sins human committed. Including our original sin from Adam and Eve. That's why ever since then, man can get back to God side by the path Jesus created. Again, it is up to individual to choose their path.Originally posted by stupidissmart:In the past, OT also claims the same thing. U too have a chance to be back to his side. OT never claims tat man your only choice is dead. God still bear a grudge against adam and eve for eating the fruit of wisdom ? If he forgives, he should have forgiven all the things tat men had done, including wat adam and eve had done. Isn't tat showing he does not forgive as he claims he had ?
Christ is sacrificed, and nothing physical has changed. Isn't tat a sign tat it may all be a hoax ? I mean, talk is simple... he say tat god forgive us of our sin, and we see no changes in life ! How do we know it really happened ? Isn't it being just a mere folkstory make more sense ?
One physical thing happened after Jesus die is the Roman Temple crack into half and fall. You don't see changes in life, because you choose not to see it, that doesn't mean that it didn't happened. A lot more other people see the changes in their life when following the path Jesus created.
Do you know what is giving them freedom or control or not? When God give us freedom, mean we are free to choose, why God still want to "control" us not to eat the apple if he already give us freedom to choose. It is not fair that God purposely let us eat the apple, because we have ALL the information we need to know in order to make that decision, right?Originally posted by stupidissmart:If god knows tat adam and eve is gonna eat the fruit of wisdom, he should have set the fiery sword tat turn in anyway on the tree in the first place. He didn't do anything to prevent it from happening. He want it to happen. If he want us to make a choice, he shouldn't have attached a punishment clause if we make a wrong decision. Tis is no longer a choice really. It is a rule or a law tat was set.
Why do you think being naked is evil? There is nothing wrong to be naked, we born to be naked, so where is the evil come in? This is exactly the effect of the "apple" we ate! The evil come in when we start to "know" them, we "know" what evil things we can do when we see a naked woman, before that man and woman can live in Eden being naked and nothing evil will happen.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why not ? They r committing evil when they r naked isn't it ? Tat is why they cover themselves up with when they ate the fruit. I was wondering why does god want them to create evil by making them naked...
Adam and Eve do KNOW that they shouldn't eat the apple. God told them before. Like I said, human are provided enough infomation to make that choice by themself. It is human nature to deny their reponsibility and like to blame others for their wrong choices (another effect of the apple). The snake is actually Satan, he know what is right or wrong, he also have enough infomation to make his choice as well. So, the theory of "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime" can not stand in this case.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If they do not know wat is good and evil, they would not have realise tat the snake is making them commit evil when it asked them to eat the fruit. The snake do not know tat he has committed an evil deed by asking eve to eat either. He is probably driven by an inate drive to eat only. They would not have realise tat eating the fruit is an evil deed. They would not have know tat being disobedient to god is a wrong act to do. SO can we blame them for eating the fruit ? I thought a chinese saying goes, "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime"
Heaven is probably worse than earth if u do not know wat is a wrong act to dothen. U don't know wat is a good act to do or bad act to do. Maybe something as trivial as stepping on the wrong stone in heaven may send u spiralling to hell. When u commit it, then u get severely punished. -
woops! post in wrong thread
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I didn't said animals won't feel pain and sad, but it is just their nature and what they are design as. What you thought about how animals should be, it is just what you thought, you are not God, you don't know what is perfect. No, Christians do not believe that animal abuse is okay. God create them to serve us, doesn't mean that we have right to abuse them. Just like you hire a house maid to serve you, doesn't mean that you have the rights or it is the right thing to abuse her, right? Your car didn't have a "soul" as well, if one day your car "die"...what happen to it? That will explain what happen to those animals.
Cars don't feel sad nor feel pain. Animals do. They have thoughts as well. I don't know wat is perfect, but there is no such thing as a perfect being. Instead of trying to push all unknowns or questions to a black box named "god", I am asking u does it seems fair for these animals to be punish with men ? They did nothing and they get punished for it.
I employ a maid, and if I suddely get caught and jailed for a cime, I don't expect the authorities to catch her and put her in a jail too. She is not me, she don't deserve to go to jail for crime I committed.
Why don't u just face it tat the best explanation is there is not god to begin with, men naturally get old and die and so does living beings ?I told you already, since Jesus die, God already forgive everything, every sins human committed. Including our original sin from Adam and Eve. That's why ever since then, man can get back to God side by the path Jesus created. Again, it is up to individual to choose their path.
Then why we still can die ? It is because of adam and eve, tat is why there is physical death isn't it ? Obviously he had never forgive adam and eve, tat is why the punishment continues. Go back by the path jesus said ? How do u know tat is true ? How do u know there is a difference ? Everything remains very much the same before or after jesus isn't it ? When u die before christ nobody know wat happened. When u die after, u still don't know wat happen to u. I can easily say tat some devil had reversed the sacrifice of men and the path to god is lost again. Someone else can say u get to be reborn as another living being. U can never know if it is right or wrong isn't it ? Anyone can put in anything tat could had happened after death. Talk is cheap u know... It seems weak to push every unknown into another black box too.One physical thing happened after Jesus die is the Roman Temple crack into half and fall. You don't see changes in life, because you choose not to see it, that doesn't mean that it didn't happened. A lot more other people see the changes in their life when following the path Jesus created.
Frankly from historic writings, the roman temple never crack and fall. The bible also claims tat there is a massive earthquake, and it is never recorded and he also claim tat lots of dead people revived back to living again. Tat again never happened. If the dead can become living again, surely tat would create such a big hoo-haa and people will definitely record it in history. Why is there no historic data on such happenings ?
People see the changes in their lives ? Muslim, buddhist and taoists see a lot of changes to their lives when they follow their religion. Frankly tis is not special and it doesn't means anythingDo you know what is giving them freedom or control or not? When God give us freedom, mean we are free to choose, why God still want to "control" us not to eat the apple if he already give us freedom to choose. It is not fair that God purposely let us eat the apple, because we have ALL the information we need to know in order to make that decision, right?
Why he impose the law of punishing us when we make the wrong choices ? Is tat freedom to choose ? Then singapore must have absolute freedom for speech as well ! U can say anything u want, but u just get sued in the end. In fact in tis world u can do anything u want ! U can murder and kill, but u just get to be hanged in the end. Is tis freedom ? Nope, it is "control", and they control it using a punishment clause at the end.
God know we will eat the apple (It is not an apple... but it really is more convenient than typing Fruit of wisdom... ) he affix a punishment for it and wait to see us commit tat act. He KNOWS tat by setting the environment as such (snake, apple, eve), Adam will DEFINITELY eat the apple. He might as well just punish us directly !Why do you think being naked is evil? There is nothing wrong to be naked, we born to be naked, so where is the evil come in? This is exactly the effect of the "apple" we ate! The evil come in when we start to "know" them, we "know" what evil things we can do when we see a naked woman, before that man and woman can live in Eden being naked and nothing evil will happen.
If they do not know wat is good and evil, they will commit evil many times but just without knowing it. They could have done some "naughty things" in the past just for the fun of it. Doesn't know evil, doesn't mean one will not commit evil. Adam could, for the fun of it, kill eve and he will not think twice about it. He don't know tat is wrong u see. He could burned all the plants in the garden, rape eve and make snake soup out of the snake and he still don't know he is wrong. Some psychos serial killers don't think tat killing people is wrong. Tat to me is even more evil.Adam and Eve do KNOW that they shouldn't eat the apple. God told them before. Like I said, human are provided enough infomation to make that choice by themself. It is human nature to deny their reponsibility and like to blame others for their wrong choices (another effect of the apple). The snake is actually Satan, he know what is right or wrong, he also have enough infomation to make his choice as well. So, the theory of "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime" can not stand in this case.
Eve don't know tat the snake is trying to deceive her since she do not know the evil deed of "deceiving". If she had know, then she would be wary and stop herself from committing it. The snake do not know it is an evil deed to ask eve to eat the apple either. It don't know deceiving is a bad deed either, and he thought he can say anything it want. God warn them not to eat otherwise they will die, but they don't know wat is death since nothing die before. Furthermore they were deceived by the snake tat they will not be punished by death. They don't know wat is deceived, nor realise they r being deceived. They don't eat it before is because they r afraid of punishment. Now someone told them it is waived. So naturally they will eat it.
It is like your mum tell a baby boy not to play with fire otherwise he is gonna be hit by her. The baby boy's elder brother tell him he will not be hit by mother if he plays with fire. Surely he can play with fire now isn't it ? He don't know he has done an "evil" deed playing with fire, much like adam don't know he will be punish by god for eating the apple. He only care if he get punish or not.
In the end they really don't know anything and the theory of "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime" still holds.
Who say tat satan is the snake ? There is really no concrete evidence tat the once mighty archangel is reincarnated from a snake before. Note tat the punishment is specifically to the snake, not to satan. -
See, you can't accept it openly....I already told you that animal just living in their natural ways, they are not being punished to live like that. Again, God didn't punish them, okay.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Cars don't feel sad nor feel pain. Animals do. They have thoughts as well. I don't know wat is perfect, but there is no such thing as a perfect being. Instead of trying to push all unknowns or questions to a black box named "god", I am asking u does it seems fair for these animals to be punish with men ? They did nothing and they get punished for it.
I employ a maid, and if I suddely get caught and jailed for a cime, I don't expect the authorities to catch her and put her in a jail too. She is not me, she don't deserve to go to jail for crime I committed.
Why don't u just face it tat the best explanation is there is not god to begin with, men naturally get old and die and so does living beings ?
The Bible said so, Jesus come to Earth and tell us directly and then again it is up to individual choose to believe it or not. Remember that even when the time Jesus walk on Earth and demo so many miracles and yet there are people choose not to believe. So, at the end it is not about how many evidences and proofs we have, it is still up to individual to choose. I know talk is cheap, that's why Christian based on Bible, not just simply talk.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Then why we still can die ? It is because of adam and eve, tat is why there is physical death isn't it ? Obviously he had never forgive adam and eve, tat is why the punishment continues. Go back by the path jesus said ? How do u know tat is true ? How do u know there is a difference ? Everything remains very much the same before or after jesus isn't it ? When u die before christ nobody know wat happened. When u die after, u still don't know wat happen to u. I can easily say tat some devil had reversed the sacrifice of men and the path to god is lost again. Someone else can say u get to be reborn as another living being. U can never know if it is right or wrong isn't it ? Anyone can put in anything tat could had happened after death. Talk is cheap u know... It seems weak to push every unknown into another black box too
Bible is one of the historic writing, why don't you choose to believe it? Others historians didn't mention, maybe they didn't know it happened and for those who know and withness it, they already have bible to record it.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Frankly from historic writings, the roman temple never crack and fall. The bible also claims tat there is a massive earthquake, and it is never recorded and he also claim tat lots of dead people revived back to living again. Tat again never happened. If the dead can become living again, surely tat would create such a big hoo-haa and people will definitely record it in history. Why is there no historic data on such happenings ?
People see the changes in their lives ? Muslim, buddhist and taoists see a lot of changes to their lives when they follow their religion. Frankly tis is not special and it doesn't means anything
Yes, other religions will make people life change as well, it is you in the first place saying that there are no change in life.
Do you mean that freedom mean no need to take responsibility?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why he impose the law of punishing us when we make the wrong choices ? Is tat freedom to choose ? Then singapore must have absolute freedom for speech as well ! U can say anything u want, but u just get sued in the end. In fact in tis world u can do anything u want ! U can murder and kill, but u just get to be hanged in the end. Is tis freedom ? Nope, it is "control", and they control it using a punishment clause at the end.
God know we will eat the apple (It is not an apple... but it really is more convenient than typing Fruit of wisdom... ) he affix a punishment for it and wait to see us commit tat act. He KNOWS tat by setting the environment as such (snake, apple, eve), Adam will DEFINITELY eat the apple. He might as well just punish us directly !
I don't know how to build a nuclear bom, will I unknowingly created a nuclear bom and didn't know I already created one? All the evil things you think of today is start from the "apple". Why Adam want to kill Eve for fun, when he didn't even know what is killing and how?Originally posted by stupidissmart:If they do not know wat is good and evil, they will commit evil many times but just without knowing it. They could have done some "naughty things" in the past just for the fun of it. Doesn't know evil, doesn't mean one will not commit evil. Adam could, for the fun of it, kill eve and he will not think twice about it. He don't know tat is wrong u see. He could burned all the plants in the garden, rape eve and make snake soup out of the snake and he still don't know he is wrong. Some psychos serial killers don't think tat killing people is wrong. Tat to me is even more evil.
It is just your assumption that Adam and Eve don't understand the warning by God. It is your assumption that the snake know nothing about the punishment. The fact remain that, they choose what they choose and they should accept the consequences and be reponsible for it.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Eve don't know tat the snake is trying to deceive her since she do not know the evil deed of "deceiving". If she had know, then she would be wary and stop herself from committing it. The snake do not know it is an evil deed to ask eve to eat the apple either. It don't know deceiving is a bad deed either, and he thought he can say anything it want. God warn them not to eat otherwise they will die, but they don't know wat is death since nothing die before. Furthermore they were deceived by the snake tat they will not be punished by death. They don't know wat is deceived, nor realise they r being deceived. They don't eat it before is because they r afraid of punishment. Now someone told them it is waived. So naturally they will eat it.
It is like your mum tell a baby boy not to play with fire otherwise he is gonna be hit by her. The baby boy's elder brother tell him he will not be hit by mother if he plays with fire. Surely he can play with fire now isn't it ? He don't know he has done an "evil" deed playing with fire, much like adam don't know he will be punish by god for eating the apple. He only care if he get punish or not.
In the end they really don't know anything and the theory of "One who do not know is not guilty of the crime" still holds.
Who say tat satan is the snake ? There is really no concrete evidence tat the once mighty archangel is reincarnated from a snake before. Note tat the punishment is specifically to the snake, not to satan. -
See, you can't accept it openly....I already told you that animal just living in their natural ways, they are not being punished to live like that. Again, God didn't punish them, okay.
I didn't accept it openly ?!??! I don't think tat is fair. Death is a sentence god give to men for eating the fruit. Before tis, men don't die, so does animals. Now animals get to die too for man's sin. Certainly getting to die is a punishment compared with living forever. I am asking u if tis is fair and u tell me I am not accepting it openly ? Have u accept it openly ?The Bible said so, Jesus come to Earth and tell us directly and then again it is up to individual choose to believe it or not. Remember that even when the time Jesus walk on Earth and demo so many miracles and yet there are people choose not to believe. So, at the end it is not about how many evidences and proofs we have, it is still up to individual to choose. I know talk is cheap, that's why Christian based on Bible, not just simply talk.
U r still avoiding the question. God make men die because they eat the apple. God then claims he has forgiven men sin. Yet we still die. Isn't there something wrong with it ? He has not forgive adam and eve, tat is why we still die isn't it ?
Jesus story is similar to chrishna from hinduism. He also perform a lot of miracles and there r people who also do not believe in him. Why is tat so ? Surely only one, or none of them is right when depicting wat happened in the past isn't it ? It can't be Christainity is right when god creates the universe while chinese mythology is also right tat pang gu create the whole galaxy. They tells us conflicting stories. Religion is not about choosing only, it is about choosing the truth. No matter wat u choose, the truth remains as such.
Isn't bible similar to "talk" ? it just keep claiming things without proving isn't it ? If u want alterations, then "writing stories" is cheap. I can write anything I want if I do not have to prove it.Bible is one of the historic writing, why don't you choose to believe it? Others historians didn't mention, maybe they didn't know it happened and for those who know and withness it, they already have bible to record it.
Because it is wrong for many of the other events it had claimed tat it exists ! It tells noah's ark, but no evidence points to existence of noah's ark ! It say of adamand eve, but no evidence for existence of garden of eden or adam and eve exists either. It is like a collection of folk stories ! It tells us story tat couldn't have happened before ! If it happened, we expect many writers to write on such issues ! But little mention about it ! It say tat there r earthquakes, dead men rising from the graves and temple is chattere. But all the other writers write very little or none at all at such events ! Doesn't tat sound fishy ?
U really doubt history writers. Everyone in the world want to know wat happen after death. When someone who really live after death, tat will be a sensational event. Why do u think people will keep silent about it ?Yes, other religions will make people life change as well, it is you in the first place saying that there are no change in life.
The point is, u can be in a totally wrong (meaning totally man made) religion and still experience changes to life. Telling me people experiencing changes doesn't means the religion is right.Do you mean that freedom mean no need to take responsibility?
Wat do u mean by freedom then ?I don't know how to build a nuclear bom, will I unknowingly created a nuclear bom and didn't know I already created one? All the evil things you think of today is start from the "apple". Why Adam want to kill Eve for fun, when he didn't even know what is killing and how?
Tat was an unfair comparison. I am talking about commiting evil, not nuclear bomb which is technologically inclined. Creating evil is very simple. Even kids can do it. U agree with tat ? A kid can play with fire, a kid can lie, a kid can beat up other people, a kid can steal food to eat, a kid can kill others too. Wat do u mean by don't know how ? If u don't tell the kid tat it is wrong, it is likely he will commit such deeds very soon. Some IMH patient or mentally challenged patient don't know wat is wrong and right too, and they do commit evil deeds like hitting or killing people. Adam only do not know wat is good or bad, tat doesn't mean he cannot control his hands or legs to commit evil like killing eve. One day if he is curious and want to try out wat happened to eve when he strangle her, he will do it as there is nothing holding him back.It is just your assumption that Adam and Eve don't understand the warning by God. It is your assumption that the snake know nothing about the punishment. The fact remain that, they choose what they choose and they should accept the consequences and be reponsible for it.
There is no assumption here. Adam and eve know of the warning. I never say they don't. However the snake deceived them tat they will not get punish for it. So the warning has been waived. They thought they r free to eat the fruits. They don't know the snake could be lying. The snake can know about the punishment but he surely don't know it is wrong to deceive eve to eat the fruit. The fact remains tat they don't know it is wrong and they get punish for something god had intended all along. -
Bible mention that animals won't die in Eden? or your assumption again? Death is a sentence God give to man, but not to animals. Animals do die naturaly. It is their nature of life cycle, nothing to sad about and nothing unfair there.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I didn't accept it openly ?!??! I don't think tat is fair. Death is a sentence god give to men for eating the fruit. Before tis, men don't die, so does animals. Now animals get to die too for man's sin. Certainly getting to die is a punishment compared with living forever. I am asking u if tis is fair and u tell me I am not accepting it openly ? Have u accept it openly ?
No, if you choose the path created by Jesus, you won't die. You soul will go to heaven after dead and live there happily ever after.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U r still avoiding the question. God make men die because they eat the apple. God then claims he has forgiven men sin. Yet we still die. Isn't there something wrong with it ? He has not forgive adam and eve, tat is why we still die isn't it ?
Jesus story is similar to chrishna from hinduism. He also perform a lot of miracles and there r people who also do not believe in him. Why is tat so ? Surely only one, or none of them is right when depicting wat happened in the past isn't it ? It can't be Christainity is right when god creates the universe while chinese mythology is also right tat pang gu create the whole galaxy. They tells us conflicting stories. Religion is not about choosing only, it is about choosing the truth. No matter wat u choose, the truth remains as such.
Isn't bible similar to "talk" ? it just keep claiming things without proving isn't it ? If u want alterations, then "writing stories" is cheap. I can write anything I want if I do not have to prove it
You can't find evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen. A lot of things happened last week, you also may having problem to find evidence to proof that it did happen, right? The earthquake is just happen in that small area, historians from China didn't know it happened is reasonable what?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Because it is wrong for many of the other events it had claimed tat it exists ! It tells noah's ark, but no evidence points to existence of noah's ark ! It say of adamand eve, but no evidence for existence of garden of eden or adam and eve exists either. It is like a collection of folk stories ! It tells us story tat couldn't have happened before ! If it happened, we expect many writers to write on such issues ! But little mention about it ! It say tat there r earthquakes, dead men rising from the graves and temple is chattere. But all the other writers write very little or none at all at such events ! Doesn't tat sound fishy ?
U really doubt history writers. Everyone in the world want to know wat happen after death. When someone who really live after death, tat will be a sensational event. Why do u think people will keep silent about it ?
The point is, you can be in totally wrong as well.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The point is, u can be in a totally wrong (meaning totally man made) religion and still experience changes to life. Telling me people experiencing changes doesn't means the religion is right.
Allow to make choices freely.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Wat do u mean by freedom then ?
The point is, everyone of us including baby are carrying the original sin from the "apple", that's why the evil part already with us since we are born. Before that, Adam and Eve didn't carry any sin any evil, and they are knowing what is good (not like you said, they don't know both good and evil).Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat was an unfair comparison. I am talking about commiting evil, not nuclear bomb which is technologically inclined. Creating evil is very simple. Even kids can do it. U agree with tat ? A kid can play with fire, a kid can lie, a kid can beat up other people, a kid can steal food to eat, a kid can kill others too. Wat do u mean by don't know how ? If u don't tell the kid tat it is wrong, it is likely he will commit such deeds very soon. Some IMH patient or mentally challenged patient don't know wat is wrong and right too, and they do commit evil deeds like hitting or killing people. Adam only do not know wat is good or bad, tat doesn't mean he cannot control his hands or legs to commit evil like killing eve. One day if he is curious and want to try out wat happened to eve when he strangle her, he will do it as there is nothing holding him back
You know the laws prevent you to steal, but the Ah Beng tell you it is ok to steal, will you listen to Ah Beng? If you listen to Ah Beng, then it is your choice that you make and you must face the consequences and be responsible for it.Originally posted by stupidissmart:There is no assumption here. Adam and eve know of the warning. I never say they don't. However the snake deceived them tat they will not get punish for it. So the warning has been waived. They thought they r free to eat the fruits. They don't know the snake could be lying. The snake can know about the punishment but he surely don't know it is wrong to deceive eve to eat the fruit. The fact remains tat they don't know it is wrong and they get punish for something god had intended all along -
stupidissmart, sorry for the poor formatting n layout
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Simple... the whole idea of a heaven and its expectations is flawed I don't believe tat heaven will exists when people r its resident.
But however if u force me to say which group of people to go in, then I will suggest people who had done good deeds substantially more than bad ones regardless of religion should be in. But then heaven is still not going to be your idea of heaven even in tis case, but more close to it.
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You are not obliged to use the word “force” if you dun believe in existence of Heaven. I have no right nor authority to force you to say things tt does nt reflect ur beliefs…no gun pointing at u. If your belief is strong, neither words nor physical threat can deter it. So, let’s take it you are not so sure whether Heaven exist…50/50
IF your type of heaven exists, in your ‘proposal’, you decide who to go since you suggest, to keep track the entire human race’s merit points and demerit points. Wait, do you know how much u have got in total now? Who told u? U know how many points for telling a seemingly harmless lie u make which might have devastating effect on someone in future and a seemingly small help from u, which u dun know tt will greatly benefit many people out there. A good guy does good deeds his whole life, but killed his love enemy becoz of love. Good, bad? 49.93% good? Sometimes, a guy who normally does good things can do something really really bad, and a guy who normally does bad things can do something really really good. Do u know a guy who does good things also can dun like someone who also normally does good things? Wun your heaven be chaotic as well?
You sat in a bus full of people, a feeble ah ma boards the bus, nobody including you offers the seat to her, bus jams brake suddenly. She falls down and sprains her back. Whose fault? Bus driver or/and every of you who never offers the seat to her? How are the demerit points going to be allocated? People sitting far away says “I shld take less fault man, people nearer her shld offer.Bus so crowded, very MAH FAN”….the person who forced the bus driver to brake? Does he know his mistake already caused harm to others? How how how how? For that case how? Total how?
To God, we are all sinners and fall short of His glory. He treats each and every one of us equal. How about those non-Christians? Jesus said "To him who has, shall more be given" (Mark 4:25). To non-Christian who response to the truth of Christ, but do not know about Christ, does not experience ChristÂ’s salvation and the forgiveness of sins.
Like I mentioned earlier on, you dun know the demerit points system, neither do I. Who’s good? Who’s bad? We are not in mediacorp drama series where u n me clearly know who are the bad guys….commit crimes, wear black color clothes, sit in dark corner…n ho rang wear white clothes, at times kerna bullied…or become overnite hero. You dun like one of your friends. He “backstabbed” u becoz he JUST doesn’t like u either, but he always help his closest friends. To u, is he good or bad? Should he go to heaven? Does he know he will enter? He will be like a headless fly. Take for example you take part in a marathon, you ask the official where is the starting line, he says “I dun know, just start running”..then u ask “where is the ending line”, he replies “I dun know, just keep running running running running running running running running running.” Would you complain about the rules of the marathon like you would complain about your life?
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No, I don't know if he is lying to u or not, tat is why I am asking u tis question. If u don't understand a fellow at all, how do u know he is being honest in his answer to u ? He appeared to have hid the fact of why he made dinosaurs extinct isn't it ? And don't go around telling me noah ark since it is proven tat dinosaurs and men never live side by side to each other at any time.
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*Yes, I canÂ’t agree more with you on the doubt you should have. ItÂ’s like having relationships with your girlfriend, siblings, friends. You have to know more about her/him in order to trust believe and have faith in parents or girlfriend rite. Likewise, you have to find out and understand more about God and you will be able to receive the Truth from Him.
I believe you would have studied quite a few and research a bit on the big bangs, extinction of dino, fossils. Yes, I agree science does unravel a lot of mysteries and facts but why does everyone has different scientific views on certain things like extinction of dino n tt human that itÂ’s as controversial as politics? We have too limited knowledge and things to use predict the past, let alone the future. For example, the fossils we have found so far are too inadequate to prove most of the claims. Dun you think so?
As for your question on the Noah Ark, there are few reasons to rebuke the statement that Noah Ark never exists due to the face that we still canÂ’t find or almost impossible to find any human fossil in situ during that eraÂ…one of them is that multiple-bones mammals fossil records we have till tis day is too rare to findÂ….probably a few casesÂ…The order of burial further increase the difficulties of finding human fossils as shallow marine organisms would be first destroyed by the Flood and then were buried by erosion of the land., thus explains why we have almost all of the fossils records we have today are on shallow marine organism fossils.
These are nt the reasons to prove that man did live side by side with dinosaurs, but to show your prove is built on weak groundsÂ…thus shall nt be considered as a fact
I will agree with you if you have all the evidences to justify your claimsÂ…I read with an open mind and heart guided by Lord. If I dun know, I will humbly tell you I dun know, for my knowledge is a small grain of sand as compared to GodÂ’s unlimited knowledge.
As stated in Prov 1:7 “Fearing of God is the beginning of knowledge” and Prov 9:10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”
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No, I am asking u how is it logically realised. Any tom, dick and harry can propose any ideas they want. It is up to us to make some questions about in detailed to see if they r telling the truth. If they fail to answer the detailed questions properly, then it is probably telling a lie
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For IÂ’m sure, you would definitely doubt what God tells me implicitly or explicitly. Absolutely no intention of answer your question improperly.
In John 3:12, Jesus said “If I have told you earthly things and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
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Then wat is your purpose in stating the earlier statement ?
Right now, in changi prison, there are ppl who are sentenced to death, leaving their loved ones..the unbearable pain of separation is one of the punishments...what abt those with young kids who need support and the permanent treatment they wld get from other ppl? If you dun get it, ur loved ones will get it. Nt forgetting the ultimate punishment when the death sentence is fixed...knowing there's no second chance to change anymore. Yes, they confess their sins to God. God forgives them, but look what punishments they get?
Wat is it about ? U r telling me god forgives them, but appeared to be dissappointed tat they still get punishment too. Wat is the message u r trying to bring across ?
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No. God forgives us but does nt mean He endorse nor condone sinsÂ… It actually grieves Him. Christians do get punishments as well, just like the rest of the non-Christians.
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Yah lor.. I also hear tis christian say tis, tat christian say tat too. If I believe them, then wat is the difference between believing some ppl run to outerspace ?
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You probably didn’t get the underlying meaning of my statement. Let’s take for an example; you have a friend called A, who went to take this Viking ride. He comes back to you and says its really thrilling n is the best ride in the world. Another friend of urs, called B, went to take another Viking ride somewhere and he comes back telling u, “Woww, that’s the best and most exciting ride in the world.” You never experience any Viking ride, so can you say “This ABC viking from this XYZ theme park is the best ride in the world” or “The Viking that A took is the best in the world.” Would ppl doubt what you say like what u doubt abt what God tells me?