Ten Commandments
-
Hi,
May I know why there seems to be different version of the Ten Commandments?
Thanks. -
I'm not aware of that. Can you show the reference to it?
-
http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htmOriginally posted by sillyme:I'm not aware of that. Can you show the reference to it? -
as mentioned before, you will noticed that the Roman Catholic took out the 2nd commandament (worship of graven image), and split the 10th commandmant to fill in the void left.
that's the reason why Roman Catholic always says that all their statues and figures and pictures of Mary, Jesus are justifiable. They say it's not for worship but just for remebrance. Surely if you bow in front of a dead lifeless figure/statue is surely worship! -
how about the 1st commandment? The 3 versions seem rather different.Originally posted by fandango:as mentioned before, you will noticed that the Roman Catholic took out the 2nd commandament (worship of graven image), and split the 10th commandmant to fill in the void left.
that's the reason why Roman Catholic always says that all their statues and figures and pictures of Mary, Jesus are justifiable. They say it's not for worship but just for remebrance. Surely if you bow in front of a dead lifeless figure/statue is surely worship! -
I am not too sure if what is soon on that page is the official 10 commandments of the Hebrew text
But if you look at the Bible at verses Exodus 20:2 ad Deut 5:6, the first commandanment found in the Hebrew "I am the Lord thy God which brought thee out of the land of Egypt.." is still there, but it's just not considered as one of the commandment because a commandment is like a law,something that you have to obey while Exodus20:2 and Deut5:6 is more like a preamble. -
i mean, can the pp just change the verses b'cos they dun feel it is right?Originally posted by fandango:I am not too sure if what is soon on that page is the official 10 commandments of the Hebrew text
But if you look at the Bible at verses Exodus 20:2 ad Deut 5:6, the first commandanment found in the Hebrew "I am the Lord thy God which brought thee out of the land of Egypt.." is still there, but it's just not considered as one of the commandment because a commandment is like a law,something that you have to obey while Exodus20:2 and Deut5:6 is more like a preamble. -
Hoho .. the different variations just support the Documentary Hypothesis.
I think bible got say if you add or minus to the words, you will be damned? Is that in Revelations? Maybe some other places too. -
how many pp do obey the commandments???????
-
Unfortunately, most Islam does, in fact for most of the teachings since Old Testament. While Christians strongly believe in Christ's teaching of one Commandment, "You must obey the Lord God, my Father", something like that.Originally posted by ak0:how many pp do obey the commandments??????? -
Why Are There Different Forms of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1)?
The answer to this question becomes clear when we allow God's Word to guide us. No one doubts the number of the Commandments, ten (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4). It is their content that has been disputed, and this is of vital—eternal—concern.
It was not until the fourth century AD that this confusion even began to exist. At that time, Augustine (Catholic bishop of Hippo in North Africa, 354-430) devised a new way of presenting the Ten Commandments in order to allow the use of images and statues in religious worship. He dropped the second commandment altogether, divided the tenth into two "commandments," and then renumbered his revised list of ten.
Dropping the second commandment makes it appear that there is only one commandment against idolatry. However, God makes it clear that there are two kinds of idolatry, and thus a need for two distinct commandments to prohibit these two major sins. The first commandment forbids worship of anything in the place of God (Exodus 20:3). The second commandment is altogether different, forbidding making, bowing down to, serving, or otherwise using statues in the worship of God (verses 4-6).
As mentioned above, to retain the correct number of commandments, Augustine made two "commandments" out of the tenth (verse 17). According to Augustine's mistaken idea, the ninth commandment is, "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife," and the tenth is, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house."
Notice how the apostle Paul was inspired to quote five of the Commandments, including the tenth: "For the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'You shall not covet,' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'" (Romans 13:9). Unlike Augustine, Paul makes no distinction between coveting a neighbor's wife and his house. Elsewhere, he says, "For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet'" (Romans 7:7). Clearly, only one principle is involved, and only one commandment governs it.
The King James and New King James versions of the Bible contains two complete lists of the Ten Commandments, found in Exodus 20:1-17 and in Deuteronomy 5:6-21. The church of God uses and practices the Ten Commandments in this inspired form.
article taken from http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.showResource/CT/BQA/k/110 -
born again Christians will obey the commandments. Not one sin will escape the test of the ten commandments.Originally posted by ak0:how many pp do obey the commandments???????
Examples:
Abortion - Thou shalt not kill
Gossip - Thou shalt not bear false witness
Lust - Thou shalt not commit adultery
The list goes on...
In fact, God says that even if you broke only just one of the commandment, even you kept the other 9, you broke all ten and deserve damnation. Till today the Jews, and also some Hyper Calvanist, will not eat out, take bus,take cab because they will not be keeping the sabbath day holy if they force others to work as well.
Born again Christians cannot be sinless, but we must strive to sin less. This can only be done with much prayer and human responsibility.
For those churches that teach that God's loves transends, overrule the 10 commandments because they are of the old testament, they are dead wrong! There is no love if there is no truth!
A real example is where a Christian couple found that their daughter was involved with an unbeliever and resulted in pregnancy - what should they do? Their church says "God's love is the mightiest" and told them to give their daughter their blessing. This is not God's love? What about the Truth? Where's the Truth? I am not advocating abortion because it is definate no-no, but the parent must not give their blessing and must as much as possible pray that the daughter repent, truthfully and totally, from her sin. God hates sin and there is not way that His love can be mingled unjustly with it.
Now you see the degeneration of the church in these days...Lord come quickly. -
So you circumcised?Originally posted by fandango:born again Christians will obey the commandments. Not one sin will escape the test of the ten commandments.
Examples:
Abortion - Thou shalt not kill
Gossip - Thou shalt not bear false witness
Lust - Thou shalt not commit adultery
The list goes on...
In fact, God says that even if you broke only just one of the commandment, even you kept the other 9, you broke all ten and deserve damnation. Till today the Jews, and also some Hyper Calvanist, will not eat out, take bus,take cab because they will not be keeping the sabbath day holy if they force others to work as well.
Born again Christians cannot be sinless, but we must strive to sin less. This can only be done with much prayer and human responsibility.
For those churches that teach that God's loves transends, overrule the 10 commandments because they are of the old testament, they are dead wrong! There is no love if there is no truth!
A real example is where a Christian couple found that their daughter was involved with an unbeliever and resulted in pregnancy - what should they do? Their church says "God's love is the mightiest" and told them to give their daughter their blessing. This is not God's love? What about the Truth? Where's the Truth? I am not advocating abortion because it is definate no-no, but the parent must not give their blessing and must as much as possible pray that the daughter repent, truthfully and totally, from her sin. God hates sin and there is not way that His love can be mingled unjustly with it.
Now you see the degeneration of the church in these days...Lord come quickly.
-
Just let me add some views. Born again Christians, should not be "enslaved" by the Ten Commandments. The work on the Cross have set us free from it.Originally posted by fandango:born again Christians will obey the commandments. Not one sin will escape the test of the ten commandments.
Romans 8
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[1] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[2] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[3] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[4] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[5] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[6] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[7] And by him we cry, "Abba,[8] Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. -
dun forget abt Romans 6 too...
Slaves to Righteousness
15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[3] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
20When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. -
The Bible itself does not show with precision, the numbering of the Commandments. It does not do so at all. The set is referred to as "ten" (Ex 34:28, Deut 4:13, 10:4), but the exact numbering is not given in the two slightly different versions of it recorded in the Bible (Ex 20:2-17 and Deut 5:6-21; see also an expanded elaboration of the principles in Ex 34:11-2
. This is as true of the King James Version as of any other. Therefore, no one has the license to be dogmatic about the exact numbering and division, based on the Bible alone -- let alone to make a charge of dishonesty and "removal."
By nature, an abbreviation must leave out certain material, and since the Church has most typically used the Augustinian division of the Decalogue (The Lutherans use the Augustinian division as well), the section of the Decalogue which says:
"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
This gets abbreviated to:
"You shall have no other gods before me.
Some declare that the Catholic Church has "hidden" or "removed" from the Ten Commandments the prohibition of idolatry. They have misinterpreted the idolatry command as a prohibition of all religious images There is nothing wrong with the abbreviation because:
1. Luther himself abbreviated the no false gods/no idols commandment this way.
2. Jews -- who today are even more opposed to religious representations (so-called ‘graven’ statues and pictures) than Protestants -- abbreviate this command in this way.
3. Protestants themselves, even those who separate the two parts of the command, abbreviate them for catechetical purposes, showing that catechetical abbreviation is perfectly fine in principle and is in no way an attempt to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments.
4. Teaching the faith to others, especially children, requires an abbreviation of the Ten Commandments for easy memorization since they are otherwise a very long block of material to memorize, longer than any of the commonly recited creeds. It would take a great deal of effort to memorize the Ten Commandments in unabbreviated form. And while God certainly wants each Christian to know the Ten Commandments, he certainly does not expect every Christian (including the billions of illiterate ones in world history) to memorize them in unabbreviated form. That is not an essential Christian duty, and thus Luther, the Jews, and Protestants in general have used abbreviations to aid in memorization.
5. Another reason -- besides their sheer length -- for abbreviating the Ten Commandments is that they contain a lot of historical material that is simply not directly applicable to modern Gentile Christians. Thus God tells the ancient, Jewish audience that he is the Lord, "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (Ex. 20:2), that they must honor (lit., "glorify") their parents so "that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12), and that "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15). Besides these, there are also numerous cultural-historical references which no longer apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians today -- such as having male and female slaves, cities with gates and walls, oxen, asses, and fields -- while they did apply to what might be called "the Hebrew middle class" in ancient Palestine.
6. Finally, the fact the Church is not trying to "hide" or "remove" any of Ten Commandments by abbreviating them in the memorization formula is indicated by the fact that everywhere else the Church uses them in unabbreviated form. They are there, in all their unabbreviated glory, in every Catholic Bible, including the Vulgate, which was used for a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, as well as in all the vernacular translations of Scripture before and since the appearance of Protestantism. They are read out unabbreviated during the Scripture readings at Mass (and always have been). And, finally, when catechetics is done and people are taught the Ten Commandments, they are always read and shown the unabbreviated form before being asked to learn the memorization formula.
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/numberng.htm -
well, it starts to confuse me liao.
anyway, thank you all for the reply
At least i know there r some reasonings behind the different ten commandments. -
Tell us what's so confusing.
Many people like to copy and paste from websites, like doing chinese comprehension, the more the merrier, unlike English or GP.
Not surprised if you started feeling confused .. haha -
medically, no.Originally posted by Nelstar:So you circumcised?
spiritually, not required to.
I agree with what sillyme and neon mentioned that born-again Christians are not enslaved by the 10 commandments. but the 10 commandments are still the foundation, be it morally or spiritually, and you cannot divorce this with the new testament. It goes hand in hand.
I hope both sillyme and neon will also concur that having Jesus as our Saviour does not mean that we can break any of the commandments. -
Cannot leh .. like SIS likes to complain (where is he btw?), the standards are so high nobody can comply.
Who dun commit adultery along orchard road? unless you are blind .. haha -
no offence SingaporeMacross, a lot of the replies that are posted by you the forum always appears to be qouted from other resources with little or no support from the Scriptures.
i would really like to hear of your personal conviction with regards to issues discussed in the forum.
Thanks. -
Yup, religion should be about personal conviction. That's why I like to read replies by people like Chin Eng, who seldom quote and the replies always have the personal human touch to it.
-
Do you miss him...???Originally posted by Icemoon:Cannot leh .. like SIS likes to complain (where is he btw?), the standards are so high nobody can comply.
Who dun commit adultery along orchard road? unless you are blind .. haha
There are a couple of new nicks that surfaced recently with his exact same style..... hmmm...
While I look at women all the time, sometimes through the prompting of my wife. I don't necessarily sin. Sometimes it's because these women are downright ugly. Sin only comes in if you mentally undress the woman or imagine yourself to be having sex with her.
We cannot be responsible for how a woman dresses, but we have to be responsible to what goes on in our minds. Mind you, that's not easy.... -
My posts seem to be impersonal? Ok, I'll see what I can do....But in case you were wondering....I have some conviction....Not all empty you know..
-
You don't take pork then? Do you pay tithe?Originally posted by fandango:medically, no.
spiritually, not required to.
I agree with what sillyme and neon mentioned that born-again Christians are not enslaved by the 10 commandments. but the 10 commandments are still the foundation, be it morally or spiritually, and you cannot divorce this with the new testament. It goes hand in hand.
I hope both sillyme and neon will also concur that having Jesus as our Saviour does not mean that we can break any of the commandments.
I hope you see what I'm catching at. If you're still enslaved to the Ten Commandments, you would have followed the laws set since the Old Testament. Sorry, I'm no Christian.
The arguments may seemed weird to me but I'm really wondering how strict you follow according to the book. Since the Bible is the word of God, then every word, every law is important.
If you find my statements or thinking offensive, please reflect to me. I'll gladly not probe any further. I'm just interested to listen to views.