Creationist vs Evolutionist
-
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
you can discover more about this topic in the above website. I have read some articles that revealed the fraud behind some scientific data....
The theory of Melanism of B. betularia,the peppered moth does not hold actually and has been commented by the jornal Nature. The moths were dead and glued to tree and photos taken such that textbooks teaches and show this theory full of error. Other interesting discoveries can be found in the website above.
This is not some rubbish website aimed to shoot down science but to reason creationist theory as stated in the Bible in the light of science. Science in no way is enemy of God, just that some made it so.
Now...not jus abt science theories, this website also hopes to answer some questions abt the Bible which u simply dun understand y.
-
pls dont crap here with your creationist crap...there is no such thing as instantaneous creation of living things...speciesation is the result of adaption...adaptation is the imperative of survival...if you dont adapt, you will die...
-
-
hehehehe crap to some, precious to some of cos...
anyway, its really your choice, no one in this world can say they are being forced to do something, we always have a choice. So its really up to you...whatever rocks you.
Creationist doesnt really mean you dun adapt. Cmon, I believe in God creating us but does that mean I stop adapting? No right, If today I go to some other countries with a different culture and climate, I adapt well also what...you know what I mean? -
why are there still monkeys?
-
the above website answers not jus scientific questions as well as many other 'uncertainties' of the Bible.
note that ultimately its not how clever human argument can do...but let the eternal Word of God speaks for itself. -
'cos humans haven't hunt them to extinction?Originally posted by the Bear:why are there still monkeys? -
In my opinion, the theory of creation is a whole lot off bullshit... We are a result of evolution... come'on... do you guys actually believe in the adam and eve crap?
-
errr....ya?Originally posted by gellar:In my opinion, the theory of creation is a whole lot off bullshit... We are a result of evolution... come'on... do you guys actually believe in the adam and eve crap? -
I have also one prof in nus...quite famous one in his biomedical field...not going to tarnish his name by mentioning it. To him...he says evolution is crap. Becoz inside our human body..he is just so amazed how things work.Originally posted by gellar:In my opinion, the theory of creation is a whole lot off bullshit... We are a result of evolution... come'on... do you guys actually believe in the adam and eve crap?
There are things that we can adapt....physical change...yes, Not genetic change.
Human are human...human is no where near monkey. Even though we may look abit similar...but our genes are quite different. But...we human are much closer to pig then monkey. Y is that so? we dont evolve from pig right?
As mention...if we are all from monkey or apes..then apes shouldnt be around today. Cant be we are chosen to get the " upgrade package" and they dont. And our monkey cousin should also be elves.
-
so if evolution is true, there is only one type for every species? got humans means no apes? then there is only one type of fish, one type of bird?Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:As mention...if we are all from monkey or apes..then apes shouldnt be around today. Cant be we are chosen to get the " upgrade package" and they dont. And our monkey cousin should also be elves.
i cant believe u give such a reply.
there are more than one stage of evolution, and every time there are branches of different species. It dont mean ALL Primates becomes human, just that human evolved from them. -
If evolution is true...then we r from primate..so we can call ourselves superior primate. our brains are so much more develope then the rest of the primates. Then how come we dun have a superior fish? a superior bird? Need not to be one species...but none of the other species are near us; intelectually. AND yes ...if i believe that we are from APES...then there will mean no apes. Maybe there are baboons and other species. that's y i say...cant be we are the lucky "chosen" apes and some are not.Originally posted by Poopie-Head:so if evolution is true, there is only one type for every species? got humans means no apes? then there is only one type of fish, one type of bird?
i cant believe u give such a reply.
there are more than one stage of evolution, and every time there are branches of different species. It dont mean ALL Primates becomes human, just that human evolved from them.
How many things have evolve since the birth of earth? Only humans? There are alot of books that wrote on evolution...but their point are just not strong enough. They tried to proof by artifacts and prehistoric bones....but there are also books that state that those artifacts and prehistoric bones are not sufficient to proof the process of evolution. -
coz humans hardworking mah....study a lot and constantly upgrade remember??Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:If evolution is true...then we r from primate..so we can call ourselves superior primate. our brains are so much more develope then the rest of the primates. Then how come we dun have a superior fish? a superior bird? Need not to be one species...but none of the other species are near us; intelectually. AND yes ...if i believe that we are from APES...then there will mean no apes. Maybe there are baboons and other species. that's y i say...cant be we are the lucky "chosen" apes and some are not.
How many things have evolve since the birth of earth? Only humans? There are alot of books that wrote on evolution...but their point are just not strong enough. They tried to proof by artifacts and prehistoric bones....but there are also books that state that those artifacts and prehistoric bones are not sufficient to proof the process of evolution. -
oh ya....we buy alot of books to study. Study and learn since 5 years old until the day we die. Haiz..y the fish, the bird and other primates so lazy ah after so many thousands of years.
-
First of all, we are NOT EVOLVED FROM APES.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:If evolution is true...then we r from primate..so we can call ourselves superior primate. our brains are so much more develope then the rest of the primates. Then how come we dun have a superior fish? a superior bird? Need not to be one species...but none of the other species are near us; intelectually. AND yes ...if i believe that we are from APES...then there will mean no apes. Maybe there are baboons and other species. that's y i say...cant be we are the lucky "chosen" apes and some are not.
Humans and apes share the same ancestors. Get that clear first.
Also, who says the evolved species cannot co-exist with its predecessor? Your parents give birth to you and they die immediately? Evolution does not necessarily mean total and absolute extinction of the predecessor.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:How many things have evolve since the birth of earth? Only humans? There are alot of books that wrote on evolution...but their point are just not strong enough. They tried to proof by artifacts and prehistoric bones....but there are also books that state that those artifacts and prehistoric bones are not sufficient to proof the process of evolution. Again you are mis-informed here. Evolution studies do not only focus on the human species. I'm very surprised you are not aware of this. Of course the "proofs" are not sufficient yet. If they are, there is no need for more study on this subject. In fact, recent discoveries all point towards evolution as more fossils of the missing-links are found.
It's always easier to say everything is created as is. You dont need to proof anything, since everything pops out of thin air.
P.S > Is there any part of the Bible that specifically denounce evolution?
-
no, becuz we always kana bullied by those animals, den we stress so we mutate into wad we are today, dats y we now wan to control those animals and tame them into pets out of revenge.Originally posted by NeonTetra:coz humans hardworking mah....study a lot and constantly upgrade remember?? -
quote :Your parents give birth to you and they die immediately? Evolution does not necessarily mean total and absolute extinction of the predecessorOriginally posted by Poopie-Head: Again you are mis-informed here. Evolution studies do not only focus on the human species. I'm very surprised you are not aware of this. Of course the "proofs" are not sufficient yet. If they are, there is no need for more study on this subject. In fact, recent discoveries all point towards evolution as more fossils of the missing-links are found.
It's always easier to say everything is created as is. You dont need to proof anything, since everything pops out of thin air.
P.S > Is there any part of the Bible that specifically denounce evolution?
hmm...i didnt know evolution from monkey to human can be view in a lifespan of my parents. just say my parents live up to 100 years old..so evolution already occur to me??? wow..that is fast. i wan to become X men now...y 2000 years already human still the same wan
U wan scientific answer? u wan to hear what evolutionists say?? Read this..really read this. It is approved by Pennsylvania State University. FROM UNIVERSITY YA...not from grandfather story ok.
http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/origins/faqsci.htm
see the webpage...got " .edu" means education ...not grandfather story -
Kao Peh Lar!
This topic is damn crappy. -
This is an analogy - supposed to make it easier for u to understand. However, it seems that you still have trouble understanding what I am trying to explain. It's my fault for not stating it as an analogyOriginally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:quote :Your parents give birth to you and they die immediately? Evolution does not necessarily mean total and absolute extinction of the predecessor
hmm...i didnt know evolution from monkey to human can be view in a lifespan of my parents. just say my parents live up to 100 years old..so evolution already occur to me??? wow..that is fast. i wan to become X men now...y 2000 years already human still the same wan - I thought people got common sense. More on this below.
Evolution does not necessarily mean total and absolute extinction of the predecessor.
Read the above again - slowly if u must. If u still cant get my point, then there's nothing more I can say. Maybe I can try to draw you some pictures XDOriginally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:
Please REALLY READ
U wan scientific answer? u wan to hear what evolutionists say?? Read this..really read this. It is approved by Pennsylvania State University. FROM UNIVERSITY YA...not from grandfather story ok.
http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/origins/faqsci.htm
see the webpage...got " .edu" means education ...not grandfather story[/b] and find out more before you provide links. You are misleading other people who dont even check your links. These people are not "evolutionists " like you said - this is a website of a club which is formed by Creationists. Naturally they try to disprove Evolution theory. The background of the club members are unknown (possibly non-biologists)
I quote from the home page for the "CLUB"The Club provides a vehicle for PSU Students seeking
There you go. They are "Creationists" NOT "Evolutionists ".
to learn and discuss scientific evidence that supports the
Creation Model of Origins....
Ok, since you are providing links to support your point of view, then I shall provide links to support mine too. These links are by no means "grandfather story" links
FAQs on Evolution
This is an extremely good site people like you should read:
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
Search for "evolution" using google. You will find that Universities such as Harvard and Yale support the idea of Evolution. Harvard and Yale are NOT grandfather story right?
--------------------------------------------
For those people who refuse to read the links above (esp the 2nd link), I quote:6. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?
I thought this is common sense but still... haiz...
This surprisingly common argument reflects several levels of ignorance about evolution. The first mistake is that evolution does not teach that humans descended from monkeys; it states that both have a common ancestor.
The deeper error is that this objection is tantamount to asking, "If children descended from adults, why are there still adults?" New species evolve by splintering off from established ones, when populations of organisms become isolated from the main branch of their family and acquire sufficient differences to remain forever distinct. The parent species may survive indefinitely thereafter, or it may become extinct. (maybe it isnt really common now.. sad)12. Nobody has ever seen a new species evolve.
I edit out for shorter and more concise for purpose of this post.
Speciation is probably fairly rare and in many cases might take centuries. ....
As mentioned above, it might take centuries or even more, so unless humans are able to live that long, it is hardly possible for a person to witness evolution.
I hope Bear dont keep wondering why still got monkeys now. -
My mistake...it is not evolutionist..for what i am siding evolutionist. U think i will post up something that "enchance ur bashing??? " .
I am telling you...u know why so many ppl cannot accept the fact of evolution. Is because they also believe that the predessor CANNOT be co- existing with evolve creature.
If u insist..is UP TO U....but u cannot PROOF...and hence U CANNOT Make it a fact.
Anyway...judging by the way u argue, the way u pour out ur facts...u r similar with SIS. I read back his post and urs...i just feel that they are the same.
So no point arguing wif ppl like u. Just read the page i sent to u. If u think u r smart..hey hey no. Dont make ur opinion as a fact. If it is a fact..we are already studying it like water is = H20. Proven, cant be argued.
But since evolutionist cant proof anything...it is STILL NOT A FACT. They cant come up with anything...hence it can be challenge.
Oh ya...b4 i forgot...ur analogy...has no common sense. not the reader. What kind of analogy is that stating that within my parents life i can mutate or evolve into something else..u wan to give an analogy where time is the domain...and u wan to shift things from few thousands years to a lifespan of an human? and still insist that evolution can happen within that 1 century? so ..is not an anology...then?? whicn animal live up to 2000 years? turtle has one of the longest life...if evolution exist...i think the most potential one is turtle...and not monkeys. Then turtle could have both..thier predessor and the intelectual turtle together. but now..i dun see any tutrtle empire under the sea today?
Quote :The deeper error is that this objection is tantamount to asking, "If children descended from adults, why are there still adults?" New species evolve by splintering off from
Hey..if u wan to give an example or an anology..can u give a better one? If children descended from adults...why are there still adults... Got evolution? Got new species?? So adult is Homo Sapiens...then children is Mini Homo Sapiens.? the resaon why u cant give a good analogy or example is because...
1st)..there is none u can give because they are not proven , 2nd) u got nothing to say..but still wan to persuade ppl to believe. If u wan me to believe....just give me some EVIDENCE. Then i will believe u . Since evolutionist until today also cant give any proof or solid evidence...i doubt that u r capable of doing so.
I just think that u r SIS..just by judging at the way u argue. I just feel like i am typing to SIS. If u r...haiz...no point going on. -
No leh .. his england better than SIS, and his sentences are more complete.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:I just think that u r SIS..just by judging at the way u argue. I just feel like i am typing to SIS. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:No leh .. his england better than SIS, and his sentences are more complete.
Thank you for your compliment
hahah i was wondering WHO THE HECK is SIS. FYI, i just registered in sgforums
As i was saying, it really doesnt matter to you if I am SIS (which I am not), it doesnt make my points any better or worse.
coming back to answer your "doubts" -
Let's cut it short. I will give my view y i cant believe in evolution.
1) Not only human exist in this world. There are alot of animals too. For example, tiger, bear, sharks, whale, plankton, bat, eagle. If evolution do exist..so human is from the predessor of monkey...how about tiger, bear, sharks, whale? they all must have a predessor too? Sharks do exist during dinasour era or long b4 mankind. That's what i recall if i am not wrong.And they exist till today. Any major changes on them?? nope...they still dont have brains to build an empire.That's what i recall if i am not wrong.
2) Even though one manage to proof that human has the same predessor of monkey..and we evolve from them...does this mean the creation theory is wrong? NO. Because now the question is ...how this " predessor of monkey" exist? Unless one can proof that all the creature today exist from 1 cell and being mutated until so many different species out.
3) The law of probability. What is the chances that only human is the superior species. There are so many species in the world but why only human. The probability is just 1 / ( total no. of species). If the total no .of species in this world is just 10000 ( let's say) , 1 / 10000 is already a probability of 0.0001. -
I am not bashing anyone here, just a discussion. Hopefully, i can bring across the idea that Evolution is a FACT (to an extent), it is not a BASELESS ASSUMPTION. Why is it a fact to an extent? Read on (if u still have an open mind on the discussion).Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:My mistake...it is not evolutionist..for what i am siding evolutionist. U think i will post up something that "enchance ur bashing??? " .
BTW, does evolution necessarily contradict with what the Bible said?
quote:
"Anyway...judging by the way u argue, the way u pour out ur facts...u r similar with SIS. I read back his post and urs...i just feel that they are the same."
"I just think that u r SIS..just by judging at the way u argue. I just feel like i am typing to SIS. If u r...haiz...no point going on."
Doesnt matter if I am him. Doesnt make my points any better or worse If it makes u feel better, then let me state clearly that I am not him.
quote:
"If u insist..is UP TO U....but u cannot PROOF...and hence U CANNOT Make it a fact.
So no point arguing wif ppl like u. Just read the page i sent to u. If u think u r smart..hey hey no. Dont make ur opinion as a fact. If it is a fact..we are already studying it like water is = H20. Proven, cant be argued.
But since evolutionist cant proof anything...it is STILL NOT A FACT. They cant come up with anything...hence it can be challenge."
Courses provided by Harvard and Yale on Evolution:
http://www.mcb.harvard.edu/BioLinks/Evolution.html
http://www.eeb.yale.edu/
Obviously, non-biologists arguing on the subject that they are not well-versed in. For the sake of everyone here...
Quoted from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
"When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution."
In short: Evolution IS A FACT. There is NO question about it. However, as mentioned above, the exact mechanism which is HOW evolution occurs - this is what scientists are trying to find out.
Quote again from the website above:
"Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
quote:
"I am telling you...u know why so many ppl cannot accept the fact of evolution. Is because they also believe that the predessor CANNOT be co- existing with evolve creature. "
Which is how a closed-mind works. I quote again:
quote:
"New species evolve by splintering off from established ones, when populations of organisms become isolated from the main branch of their family and acquire sufficient differences to remain forever distinct. The parent species may survive indefinitely thereafter, or it may become extinct."
quote:
"Oh ya...b4 i forgot...ur analogy...has no common sense. not the reader. What kind of analogy is that stating that within my parents life i can mutate or evolve into something else..u wan to give an analogy where time is the domain...and u wan to shift things from few thousands years to a lifespan of an human? and still insist that evolution can happen within that 1 century? so ..is not an anology...then?? whicn animal live up to 2000 years? turtle has one of the longest life...if evolution exist...i think the most potential one is turtle...and not monkeys. Then turtle could have both..thier predessor and the intelectual turtle together. but now..i dun see any tutrtle empire under the sea today?"
It doesnt matter how long life a specific organism is. In fact, evolution DOES NOT occur within a lifespan for that particular organism. It is its DESCENDANTS who will start to have a different gene, while still inheriting genes from its parents. However, such differences are too small to be noticed in just one or two generations. Even when the differences are noticed, it is HARD to justify the decendants as a completely new species because the differences are small. Over time, if the new gene continue to thrive among the organism, and new changes continue to take place, we will see a considerate amount of difference from the original parent. This is when we say the organism have evolved.
Quote :The deeper error is that this objection is tantamount to asking, "If children descended from adults, why are there still adults?" New species evolve by splintering off from
Hey..if u wan to give an example or an anology..can u give a better one? If children descended from adults...why are there still adults... Got evolution? Got new species?? So adult is Homo Sapiens...then children is Mini Homo Sapiens.? the resaon why u cant give a good analogy or example is because...
Analogy is used as an example. To simplify ideas for easier understanding. Sad to say, it did not achieve its purpose here. I shall attempt to provide another analogy.
For example, both your parents are asians with brown eyes. You have brown eyes too and you marry a caucasian with blue eyes. Your first child gets blue eyes, second gets brown eyes. The decendants of the first child would definitely have a chance of getting blue eyes. However, if your second child do not inherit the gene of blue eyes from your spouse, all his decendants will not inherit this gene.
There you have it: two distinct eye color branches off from the root. One does NOT necessarily cause the other to be EXTINCT.
Quote:
1st)..there is none u can give because they are not proven , 2nd) u got nothing to say..but still wan to persuade ppl to believe. If u wan me to believe....just give me some EVIDENCE. Then i will believe u . Since evolutionist until today also cant give any proof or solid evidence...i doubt that u r capable of doing so.
1 - As mentioned, evolution is a FACT. All biologists agree on this as a FACT, not some assumption or imagination. The only thing they need to find out now is HOW it happens, and WHAT happens during evolution.
2 - Evidence can be given, but it is still up to the person to accept or deny it. You can always REFUSE to UNDERSTAND or ACCEPT a proven fact, there's nothing anybody else can do about it. It just proves you have a closed mind. Let's see you PROVE Creation as a FACT? All Creationists have been doing is trying to find the bits of loopholes to try to break the Evolution theory, hardly we see Creationists prove their ideas.
3 - You want solid evidence? Dont die. Live for 3000 years and I will show you the evidence. Of course, we all know it is hardly possible to live that long. Seeing is believing? I am afraid even when you see it, u cannot comprehend it.
"All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists' conclusions less certain." -
quote:
"1) Not only human exist in this world. There are alot of animals too. For example, tiger, bear, sharks, whale, plankton, bat, eagle. If evolution do exist..so human is from the predessor of monkey...how about tiger, bear, sharks, whale? they all must have a predessor too? Sharks do exist during dinasour era or long b4 mankind. That's what i recall if i am not wrong.And they exist till today. Any major changes on them?? nope...they still dont have brains to build an empire.That's what i recall if i am not wrong"
1 - Ok for example, the shark. Yes, sharks existed for a long time. How do you know that they did not changed? Have you lived long enough to confirm that? We cannot possibly live long enough within our lifespan to observe such changes.
For example, we know for a FACT that the land mass of Earth was originally one piece and it broke up into the seven continents we know today. Did any human actually SEE it with their eyes? No. How did we know it as a FACT then? Isn't it just an imagination? No! It is not imagination. We proof INDIRECTLY by looking at evidences.
Another example, Dinosaurs. Did they exist? Yes. Did any human see it with their own eyes? No. Are dinosaurs just an imagination or a fact? How did we know they existed?
"All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists' conclusions less certain."
Regarding the "brains to build an empire", read on.
quote:
"2) Even though one manage to proof that human has the same predessor of monkey..and we evolve from them...does this mean the creation theory is wrong? NO. Because now the question is ...how this " predessor of monkey" exist? Unless one can proof that all the creature today exist from 1 cell and being mutated until so many different species out. "
LMAO. If evolution is PROVEN, it is ALREADY A FACT. What you are trying to do is to ask for the FULL DETAILED EVOLUTION TREE from 1 cell organism to the various organisms in the modern world (esp Humankind). This is what the scientists are still trying to do. One detailed evolution tree coming up, but you just have to wait.
BTW, while waiting for the Detailed Evolution Tree, it does not change the fact that evolution occured.
quote:
"3) The law of probability. What is the chances that only human is the superior species. There are so many species in the world but why only human. The probability is just 1 / ( total no. of species). If the total no .of species in this world is just 10000 ( let's say) , 1 / 10000 is already a probability of 0.0001
"
Since you mentioned probability...
Root word of probability is "possible". Even if the probability is one in a million, if there is a chance of it happening, IT WILL.
Regarding human as the superior species. Given the nature of mankind, what happens if there is an animal with high intellect? In the past, Humans would kill it. Suppression may prevent other intelligent creatures from arising. However, in the modern world, humans will study it, possibly try to commune with it. In fact, chimpanzees, dolphins are good examples.
So happens that on this Planet now, at this time period, humans are the creatures with highest intellect. Who knows in the distant future, another creature with similar intellect will eventually evolve? Time is an important factor as well.
In your words, probability. Probability of a highly intelligent organism meeting with another high intellect organism. Probability is much lowered.
Just like playing cards. How often do you get double Aces?