Testimonial Of A Miracle
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B was silent for a moment as I tried to comprehend the bazaar logic of A. Then B voiced out, Did u say pray? So buddha can hear prayers, thus having eternal life, and he is the only one so far out of billion people on earth who is a good person? Is Mother Theresa good enough, so does she achieve enlightenment? Should we pray to her also?
Actually... B is sort of very mistaken about buddhism and buddha...A also try to convince B that the bible have alot of flaw. B then paused and thought, hmm, in the new testanement, we have 12 disciples withnessing Jesus. Did anyone withness Buddha getting enlightnment under the tree? Did his head shine like a sun?
Chrishna has 12 disciples. I thought lot of other religions have witnesses as well. -
i remember orneryboy in one of the topic on religions, said that 'all other religions are man made, only Christianity is relationship..yada yada"
this topic was in CC if i am not wrong.
Whilst many are mistaken about Christianity, Christians themselves sometimes are wrong on other religions, and are quick to condemn them as 'man made' and other stuff.
A good example i see in this topic is this example on 'praying to Buddha statue' and "offering fruits on the altar" thingy
Many forgot that praying to Buddha statue is not worshipping it, but using it to focus one thoughts in meditation and so on. I noe Christians are against idol-worshipping, but there are figures of Jesus on the Cross. So what does this mean? So both sides shouldnt be so quick to condemn first.
Second is about adaptation of religion in different cultures. There is one topic on how come monks can get tattoos on their bodies.
I neglect to point out this could be done before they become monks, but it could well be accepted in Thai culture. In Peru and other South American countries, they used to worship vultures and sort. When they became Christians, some of them still use vultures as form of worship to God in churches. Btw, no sacrifices, just presenting of the vulture to the altar. In Philippines, they lash and nail themselves to Cross as way to cleanse their soul.
Chinese culture i guess could be the reason why u see fruits on altar, with statue of Buddha on it. Chinese, who for centuries practise ancestor worship, could simply adapt Buddhism to their needs, thats why u see joss sticks and stuff. -
We dun change the manner of worship to suit human needs. Worship is sacrifial and giving God all the honour and glory He alone deserves. We dun use fruits and joss sticks not just because these have no biblical origin...the closest we can get is Incense in the Old Testament times. Christ came and opened the way so that all can worship God not in some ritualistic manner as in slaughtering of animals and burnt offerings but rather in spirit and in truth.Originally posted by laurence82:i remember orneryboy in one of the topic on religions, said that 'all other religions are man made, only Christianity is relationship..yada yada"
this topic was in CC if i am not wrong.
Whilst many are mistaken about Christianity, Christians themselves sometimes are wrong on other religions, and are quick to condemn them as 'man made' and other stuff.
A good example i see in this topic is this example on 'praying to Buddha statue' and "offering fruits on the altar" thingy
Many forgot that praying to Buddha statue is not worshipping it, but using it to focus one thoughts in meditation and so on. I noe Christians are against idol-worshipping, but there are figures of Jesus on the Cross. So what does this mean? So both sides shouldnt be so quick to condemn first.
Second is about adaptation of religion in different cultures. There is one topic on how come monks can get tattoos on their bodies.
I neglect to point out this could be done before they become monks, but it could well be accepted in Thai culture. In Peru and other South American countries, they used to worship vultures and sort. When they became Christians, some of them still use vultures as form of worship to God in churches. Btw, no sacrifices, just presenting of the vulture to the altar. In Philippines, they lash and nail themselves to Cross as way to cleanse their soul.
Chinese culture i guess could be the reason why u see fruits on altar, with statue of Buddha on it. Chinese, who for centuries practise ancestor worship, could simply adapt Buddhism to their needs, thats why u see joss sticks and stuff.
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again, animal sacrifices and burning offerings are not part of buddhism.Originally posted by NeonTetra:We dun change the manner of worship to suit human needs. Worship is sacrifial and giving God all the honour and glory He alone deserves. We dun use fruits and joss sticks not just because these have no biblical origin...the closest we can get is Incense in the Old Testament times. Christ came and opened the way so that all can worship God not in some ritualistic manner as in slaughtering of animals and burnt offerings but rather in spirit and in truth. -
of course Buddhism dont advocate the burning of offerings or sacrifice of animals.
hmm, as for the different cultures adapting the religion to one need, i wont argue against these people because its the same as arguing why there is different denominations or teachings.....everyone just wanna question a different practice, ritual, teachings, beliefs and so on...hence even in religion there is different denominations and sects...mei wan mei liao one... -
Miracles
Christians claim that miracles are sometimes performed in God's name and that the fact that this happens proves that God exists. This is an appealing argument until it is looked at a little more closely.
While Christians are quick to claim that because of their prayers the blind could see, the deaf could hear and crooked limbs were straightened, they are very slow in producing evidence to back up their claims. In fact, some Christians are so anxious to prove that miracles have occurred at their prayer meetings that the truth often gets lost in a flood of wild claims, extravagant boasts, and sometimes even conscious lies.
It is true that things which are unusual and difficult to explain do sometimes happen during religious events - but not just for Christians. Hindus, Muslims, Taoists, etc. all claim that their God or gods sometimes perform miracles. Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on miracles. So, if miracles performed in God's name prove the existence of the Christian God, then miracles performed in the name of numerous other gods must likewise prove that they too exist.
Christians may try to overcome this fact by claiming that, when miracles occur in other religions, they are done through the power of the Devil. Perhaps the best way to counter this claim is to quote the Bible. When Jesus healed the sick, his enemies accused him of doing this through the power of the Devil. He answered that healing the sick results in good and if the Devil went around doing good he would destroy himself (Mk 3:22-26). Therefore the same could be said for the miracles performed by Hindus, Jews or Sikhs. If these miracles result in good, how can they be the work of the Devil? -
Ehhh... I thought christians used to offer animal sacrifices to god before... There is even genesis 4 tat tell a story of Abel sacrificing a lamb to god and he is immersely pleased. When Cain offer something vegetarian, god is angry with him. Doesn't tat tell people tat god like animal offerings to him ?
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u r smart in terms of biblical account here. but stupid in the case of reading clearly.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Ehhh... I thought christians used to offer animal sacrifices to god before... There is even genesis 4 tat tell a story of Abel sacrificing a lamb to god and he is immersely pleased. When Cain offer something vegetarian, god is angry with him. Doesn't tat tell people tat god like animal offerings to him ?
Cain's offering was rejected not because God is carnivourous. in fact God dun eat anything...he is the One who made these...any offering given out of compulsion and insincerity....will be rejected.
If u continue to read on in the Old Testament....even people offering unauthorised fire are punished..even though the manner they do it is correct but they are not the one who are chosen to do that.
God does not desire a group of 'do right things' people...he wants a 'do things right' people. Obedience to him, broken and contrite hearts God will never despise. -
Cain's offering was rejected not because God is carnivourous. in fact God dun eat anything...he is the One who made these...any offering given out of compulsion and insincerity....will be rejected.
Being carnivorous is meant as a joke...
But then it is a fact tat God accept and is pleased with the offering Cain made. Cain offer a fat sheep to him. Isn't tat a sign tat god do take animal sacrifices ? In fact, tis prompt the Jews to offer sheeps to god on special occasions from tis passage. No only tis, there r other instances of the bible tat people sacrifices sheep as offerings to god.
It is never stated tat Abel do not give his offerings out of compulsion or insincerity either. In fact he appears to be the first one to offer any offerings to god. -
eh...u got mixed up. Abel is the accepted one and Cain is not.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Being carnivorous is meant as a joke...
But then it is a fact tat God accept and is pleased with the offering Cain made. Cain offer a fat sheep to him. Isn't tat a sign tat god do take animal sacrifices ? In fact, tis prompt the Jews to offer sheeps to god on special occasions from tis passage. It is never stated tat Abel do not give his offerings out of compulsion or insincerity either. In fact he appears to be the first one to offer any offerings to god.
Abel offered to God the firstborn of the flock, the fat portion which are the best part of the animals. This sacrifice may sound similar to the sacrifices made by the Jews but not totally true because the manner of sacrifice and the requirements are given to Moses by God Himself and can be found in the Book of Leviticus.
One can read that the sacrifice are not totally of animals but of flour, oil and breads. Regarding why God in the Old testament is so bloody...everything must have blood, slaugter lamb must sprinkle blood on the altar and all the furnitures of the tabernacle and there are indeed many cases of bloodshed in the event of sacrifice and how come in New testament the bloodshed seems to stop? The pivot of this is Christ Himself being the Lamb of God, shed His blood for the atoning sacrifice on behalf of the whole world.
The Old testament killing of animals lives and shedding their blood is a foreshadow and reminder to the people then that sins requires a person's lives and death being the penalty. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins because blood represents life itself. -
Okie.. the one tat offered the sheep pleased god the most
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There are differences between the religion of the OT which is Judaism and the religion of NT which is Christians. One cannot state that Christians were involved in the sacrificial process as stated in the OT.
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It is dangerous to read the bible out of context or just read it partially and think one knows what it says. A little knowledge is dangerous and I will recommend you attend bible classes to know more and in more detail. One can't conclude that the bible is man made until he has really done an in depth research into the bible.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Okie.. the one tat offered the sheep pleased god the most -
Is the Bible Inspired?
Christians claim that although the books of the Bible were actually written by different people, these people were inspired and guided by God as they wrote. While contemporary Christians make this claim, the ancient authors of the Bible never did. For example Luke says at the beginning of his Gospel:
Insomuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us.....it seemed good to me also having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you..... (Lk 1:1-3).
Nothing about being filled with the spirit of God either before or while he wrote, he simply says that others had written accounts of the life of Jesus so he thought it might be a good idea if he wrote something also. If he really was inspired by God to write the Gospel why didn't he say so? But the claim of inspiration is not just unsubstantiated, it also raises a very serious problem. Christians are always claiming that in prayer God speaks to them, gives them advice and tells them what to do. They claim that his voice is very direct, very clear and very real. But if they really have no doubt that God is communicating with them surely his words should be recorded and included in the Bible. The Bible contains words God spoke to Moses, Joshua, Matthew, Mark Peter and Paul so why shouldn't the words he speaks to modern day Christians be included also? Christians will balk at such a suggestion which indicates that they are not so convinced that the words they hear in their hearts really do come from God after all.
One Bible or Several?
In ancient times there was no standardized version of the Old Testament. Different Jewish groups and different regions had their own versions. There were the Septuagint, the Aquila, Theodotion's version and Symmachu's version, all containing different text and different numbers of books. The Old Testament used by modern Christians is based on the Massonetic version which only appeared after the Jamnia Synod at the end of the 1st century AD. The New Testament did not appear in its present form until the year 404 AD, nearly four hundred years after the death of Jesus. Before that time, the Gospels of Thomas, the Gospel of Nicodemus, the Acts of Peter, the Acts of Paul and a dozen other books were included in the Bible. In 404 AD these books were simply cut out of the Bible because they contained teachings that were contrary to Christian theology of that time. One of the oldest existing Bibles, The Codex Sinaiticus, includes the Epistle of Barnabas, a book that is not included in the modern Bible. If these books were considered to be revelation by early Christians why don't modern Christians consider them to be revelation?
When we look at the Bibles used by modern Christians we find that there are several different versions. The Bible used by the Ethiopian Church, one of the most ancient of all churches, contains the Books of Enoch and the Shepherd of Hermas which are not found in the versions used by Catholics and Protestants. The Bible used in the Catholic Church contains the books of Judith, Tobias, Banuch, etc which have been cut out of the Bible used in Protestant churches. Prof. H.L. Drummingwright of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in his introduction to the Bible explains how these books came to be cut out of the Bible used by the Protestants. These books were, he says, "in most Protestant Bibles until the 19th century, when publishers, led by the British and Foreign Bible Society voluntarily began to omit them". Once again, these books contained ideas which the churches did not like so they just cut them out. How can a book like Judith be the infallible word of God one moment and not the next? Why are there so many different versions of the Bible? And which version is the infallible word of God?
Are There Mistakes in the Bible?
We have seen previously that there are many mistakes in the Bible but we will have a look at three more examples of its inaccuracies. Today, even schoolchildren know that the earth moves; it moves on its axis and at the same time it moves around the sun. We also know that the tectonic plates on the earth's surface move also. The Bible however, clearly states that the earth does not move. In 1 Chronicles 16:30 the Bible says, "The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." (See also Ps 93:1, 96:10 and 104:5).
Here, and in many places, the Bible contradicts scientific fact. Moreover the Bible does not just contradict scientific fact it also contradicts itself. Let us have a look at the creation story. In the first book of the Bible it says that God created all the plants and trees on the third day (Gen 1:11-13), all birds, animals and fish on the fifth day (Gen 1:20-23) and finally, man and woman on the sixth day (Gen 1:26-27). Yet a little further on the Bible gives a different version of the creation story saying that God created man first (Gen 2:7), then all plants and trees (Gen 2:9), after that all birds and animals (Gen 2:19) and only then did God create woman (Gen 2:21-22). These two versions of the creation story clearly contradict each other.
Now let us have a look at the story of Noah's Ark. In one place in the Bible we are told that Noah took two of every animal and put them in the ark (Gen 6;19). Later the Bible says Noah took seven pairs of all clean animals and birds and two of all other creatures and put them in the ark (Gen 7:2). Again the Bible is contradicting itself Christians will object to this saying that these and the numerous other mistakes in the Bible are only small and of no significance. However, only one mistake is required to show that the Bible is not infallible. Also, if mistakes can be made in small matters they can be made in important matters. And, finally, one mistake is proof either that the Bible is not the word of God or that God is capable of mistakes. -
One can read that the sacrifice are not totally of animals but of flour, oil and breads. Regarding why God in the Old testament is so bloody...everything must have blood, slaugter lamb must sprinkle blood on the altar and all the furnitures of the tabernacle and there are indeed many cases of bloodshed in the event of sacrifice and how come in New testament the bloodshed seems to stop? The pivot of this is Christ Himself being the Lamb of God, shed His blood for the atoning sacrifice on behalf of the whole world.
In the end u still can't deny the fact tat your god demand blood sacrifice for himself ! U can say it is Judaism, bla bla bla etc, but initially from your very own scriptures, god do demand animals sacrifices. He do want the whole affair to be bloody in the OT etc. U can't erase off history just because of the NT.