How did u came to know Christ ?
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No. If you are asking specifically about chain letters, the context of such letters is ludricious. Having said that, I do not deny the possibility of the existence of the supernatural or the paranormal. Do you, in your logic discount the existence of the paranormal? Base from what you have written so far, I am guessing that you would probably not accept the existence of the supernatural and the paranormal. Do they exist? I don't know. Do you think there are spirits? I am not sure, but one time, I saw something that should not be in the place it was in. Did I freaked out? No, Why???
Earlier u say tat one should believes in god because if it is true, u r safe. If it isn't true, u don't lose anything. Going by your theory, u should forward all those junk mail to all your friends. Why ? Because if it is true, then u have save yourself from a curse. If it isn't true, u don't lose anything. Isn't the theory the same ?
Why u do not send it out, is because i find it ridiculous. (wat is ludricious?) But however, how logical is your religion ? I mean u totally believe tat Adam and Eve had existed before, believes Noah's Ark, believes closing of red sea and fire dropping from skies etc. Isn't tat ridiculous on its own ?
If u know why u do not believe such dumb emails, then u should know why there r people who do not believes in your religion. It is not about being "safe than sorry", but about believing in the truth or a lie.The context of the Christian faith is that my God is more powerful that all the supernatural that the world has to offer. So the curses, if real, would not matter. IF AT THIS POINT, YOU THINK THAT I AM CONTINUING TO BE STUPID, I REITERATE: IT'S OK WITH ME.
Then again, how certain r u about its existence ? Wat if your god is false and the curses in the junk mails r true ? Don't u need extra securities by sending out those mails ? Wat have u got to lose from sending out the emails ? The curses in some of these junk mails r pretty deadly. Wat if your god do not protect u from it ? Shouldn't u send out those mails "just to be safe" ?yeah, but right now I believe what I believe in is real. If assuming that the only way to find out whether it is real or not is after death, then it wouldn't matter would it?
It had already matter during your living isn't it ? U had spend time, money and effort on it isn't it ? Time, money and effort doesn't matter for u ?let me just commend firstly, that at least I do not detect any hostility in this question. Thanks .... it means a lot to me. It is difficult to give you a rationale... It is like if you ask me why I love my wife. I can give you a multitude of reasons but you will still not able to understand it. The only way you can understand it if you are in love with the same person as I am in love with. Heavens forbid....
To me, loving and believing r 2 different things. To believe in something u need logic and rationale for it. Why don't u give an example of why do u believe in something which cannot be explained instead ? I mean, I believe WW2 exists because old folks tell me it exists, and history books tell me so and they r not known to be fatally wrong. I believe in science because I see the experiments and accept the possible explanation for it by my own observation and induction. I believe in a friend because I have known him for some time and he is found to be reliable. Having said tat, why do u believe in your religion ?I can start to assume your motives to be innocent, but you are not making this easy. Please don't take my next remarks personally:
U r saying tat I display hostility toward your religion. However some of the people who preach r not angels either. They too display hostility and r confrontational. About the grammer issue, they r not perfect english speaker nor writer themselves. Why will be my motives not innocent ? Why am I graded differently just because i am on the opposite side of the fence ?
1, your style of writing is extremely confrontational, and perhaps if you can improve your grammatically style, it may make understanding your writing easier.
2. you have stated many times that you do not understanding why people believe in God. Christians here had in many instances attempted to explain. You either choose to ignore the answers or choose to disagree with the answers. This being which, makes sharing with you extremely difficult. You may have already noticed that you are beginning to be ignored. I wanted to ignore you too, but I cannot. I do enjoy most of your questions, I helps reinforcing my personal belief in God.
Again, I wish to state that I am not trying to insult you, just a feedback, if you are willing to accept (again, you do not have to agree). Also note from the various comments given to you previously from other forumites that there is some element of truth in my points above. -
Yes this is a forum, but I think that there are rules, written or unwritten. In a previous topic, in bar, I had defended an individual when another forumite insulted his wife. Some of the golden rules that should exist is: do not use vulgarity on another person, another good one is, if you disagree, you need not be offensive. In a way you were targetting at me, because I had shared my personal testimony. I wasn't giving an official "church" or "Christian" stand. I stated what I had gone through and why I had gone through. It's personal and if you don't agree it's ok, but let's just stop there.
If I don't agree, and tell u about it, then it is wrong ? I mean I always tell stories to my friends and relative about my experience. If they have doubt, some point they do nto understand or something sounds illogical, they r free to ask. Otherwise how can I expect them to understand wat I had gone through ? How do I know wat r the important issues they r unclear about ? I supported interactions, but clearly u do not.People preach for various reasons. Some preach to prove their strong affiliation to God to satisfy their ego, others preach hoping to gain membership. Still others preach because they believe what they believe in is real. I think you fall in the that last category.
Like it or not, you ARE AN EVANGELIST, with your own gospel, and in many ways you put me to shame. I am not a person who shares the gospel unless asked. Obviously if a question is asked of me on theology I will answer to the best of my knowledge, but I will never dream of entering into House of Feng Shui and starts quoting verses about occult and sorcery
so ? U can classify me in any way u want.There is no such thing as the "one true religion" or the "right religion". All paths lead to God. Its just that different people chooses differnt routes.
For christainity and other religion, they insist theirs is the ONLY correct way. They r pretty harsh in tis area."Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
Tat is very good advice.
Buddha (563BC-483BC)
"Then let us again examine whether that is a sound statement, or do we let it pass, and if one of us, or someone else, merely says that something is so, do we accept that it is so? Or should we examine what the speaker means?"
Socrates
I hope this helps you on your quest to seek the truthHey stupidissmart, u seem very knowledgeable in the Bible...but I do not know the reason y u sound so against. Mayb some Christian did wrong u in the past, as in my case yes I had a misunderstanding with the youth leaders & whatever they appoint me to do, I did it on purpose not to turn up at the last moment & let the whole thing screw up...but as I think back, y do I still keep this grudge against them.
I do not bear a "grudge" tat severe to do tis. I am doing tis mainly because I feel tat christainity is false. I have explicitly said tis many times.I've been reading some of the topic they post here & thru their discussion I was able to learn quite alot of interesting stuff. Although they r from different denomination, they show me the better side of Christianity.
Good people in the religion doesn;t mean the religion is right. I know a lot of catholics, christians, buddhists, muslims etc who shows me the good side of them, but sad to say clearly only one or none of them will be right in their religion selection.I'm still struggling with my faith & at times I want to doubt the existence of God. I envy my Christian bro. & sis who is so successful...while I'm such a failure...& I always say that God is unfair. U know the word well & I hope u use it wisely....& wat u said all along I hope it's just a way of u expressing your anger, someday I hope u'll come back to the right path. It doesn't matter if God exist....we hav nothing to lose, just don't wait till it's too late when we meet the Maker & find out that He exist....then it's already too late
Whether u r a christian or not, your success mainly hinges on u yourself. Do not join a religion just because u feel their people r successful or rich. Wat is your definition of success ? Being rich and famous ? Wat is the point of being rich and famous when u can't be happy ? Be satisfied with wat u have now.
Frankly... I am not really expressing my anger... it is more of a frustration why does people choose to follow a route which to me clearly, is an illusion.
About your part on believe in a religion just to be safe, I think I have expressed myself clearly in the earlier passage. U can't survive by "being safe" towards the many uncertainities in the world. If u send out all those dumb emails, believe in those crazy mumbo jumbo, then u r gonna find yourself tie up and restricted. Wat if some cult is the one correct about their religion ? Isn't it too late when u see their god when u die ? U can't please "everyone" in all religion. -
To me, loving and believing r 2 different things. To believe in something u need logic and rationale for it. Why don't u give an example of why do u believe in something which cannot be explained instead ? I mean, I believe WW2 exists because old folks tell me it exists, and history books tell me so and they r not known to be fatally wrong. I believe in science because I see the experiments and accept the possible explanation for it by my own observation and induction. I believe in a friend because I have known him for some time and he is found to be reliable. Having said tat, why do u believe in your religion ?
now that you brought up history, can someone pls confirm whether in history, "ancient" dates were quoted "before Christ" and "after Death"?
I thot it is so, but needed confirmation.
thanks
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no problem with me.... be a free roaming goat.... your choice, does not really concern me. If there is no God, then both of us die into oblivion, we can't continue to argue about it in oblivion. If there is a God.... well, you decide.
If there is no god, then for fett, he can have all the time for himself and can freely all the money he have earned. For Chin Eng, he have to waste many hours a week on his religion and donate at least 10% of his pay to it. When both of u die, the treatment is the same. The time, money and effort Chin Eng had spend using his limited life had gone to naught
To me, there is little or no possibility of your god existing. Hence tis option can be eliminated.
Just like junk chain emails. If the curse is not true, then u just waste some time clicking on the mouse. If the curse is true... (cancer within 5 days, got knocked by car, hit by lightning, girl/boy friend left u for your best friend, love ones all got SARS and die) well u decide.no such thing as a christian nazi. KKKs are not Christians either. There are many groups/people who choose to believe in a perverse gospel. It is also not possible to be a christian assassin (like Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction).
Why r there no christian nazi ? If a christian who believes in Christ a lot but is patriotic and believes in Hitler as well, then he is auto disqualified ? There r christian communists isn't it ? Certain races/nationalities cannot be christian ? Why is there no possiblity of a christian assassin ? U mean all christian never sins ? Is there a christian butcher ? They believe in christ right ? Talking about perverse gospel, not all main stream denomination accept the same teaching either.non-christian pacifist? not sure where this is getting at. Is being a pacifist the end of it all? how about a vegetarian who believes that he should not harm God's animals? or a non-christian philantrophist?
In short wat happen to a monk/freethinker/cultists/taoist who had done all the good deeds in his life according to christian beliefs ?If however, you believe in the existence of a higher being, then the question would be, if you are that higher being, what would you require of your creations.
Wat do u think the answer is ? Is threathening part of the answer ? -
are you a schizoid....???? One note you sound OK and next you are like a raving dog.....
"wat is ludricious" -- sorry my fault. Wrong spelling. Ludicrous is the correct spelling.
your other points.... never mind. It's OK.
but it's OK for you to come in and rave about your logic because it is a forum but when Christians go to the other forums, you take offence????
You will understand that I will stop responding to you...
My advice to you is, let the fools be fools, not for you to be concerned about it.
Bu4 Yong4 Ni3 Chao1 Xing1. Thank You very much. -
A D stands for anno Domini [n] in the year of Our Lord; date used in reckoning dates after the supposed year Christ was born, "in AD 200"Originally posted by skinnybeanie:now that you brought up history, can someone pls confirm whether in history, "ancient" dates were quoted "before Christ" and "after Death"?
I thot it is so, but needed confirmation.
thanks -
can we then say then since history quotes dates as BC and AD, that historians acknowledged the existence of Christ?Originally posted by Chin Eng:A D stands for anno Domini [n] in the year of Our Lord; date used in reckoning dates after the supposed year Christ was born, "in AD 200" -
Originally posted by skinnybeanie:can we then say then since history quotes dates as BC and AD, that historians acknowledged the existence of Christ?
you are asking me??? the stupid one???
There are many calender systems in the world. The BC/AD is the universally accepted one. Go to Taiwan and you have one system that only they know. Likewise I think for Japan too. We have our Chinese calender to reckon with. All these systems totally ignored the BC/AD demarkation. Conspiracy theorists will state that because the Roman Empire started the BC/AD thing to support the push for the deity and existence of Christ.
I don't think most historians (as well as the teachers of the other major religions) deny the existence of Christ. It is the status of Christ that is the problem. If fact my good Hindu buddy tells me that one of the major points in the human consciousness is the Christ-like point (not sure if I got the understanding and terminology correct here). Muslims acknowledge Christ as the second major prophet after Mohammed.
Of course, if one starts reading odd stuffs like "Chariots Of The Gods" by Eric Von Daniken (hope I got the name right), then the conclusion would be God was a spaceman. -
Every historian acknowledged His existence. And archaelogists also have had findings to prove that His existence on earth. But not everybody acknowledges his divinity.Originally posted by skinnybeanie:can we then say then since history quotes dates as BC and AD, that historians acknowledged the existence of Christ? -
stewpig?? who's stewpig??Originally posted by Chin Eng: you are asking me??? the stupid one???
There are many calender systems in the world. The BC/AD is the universally accepted one. Go to Taiwan and you have one system that only they know. Likewise I think for Japan too. We have our Chinese calender to reckon with. All these systems totally ignored the BC/AD demarkation. Conspiracy theorists will state that because the Roman Empire started the BC/AD thing to support the push for the deity and existence of Christ.
I don't think most historians (as well as the teachers of the other major religions) deny the existence of Christ. It is the status of Christ that is the problem. If fact my good Hindu buddy tells me that one of the major points in the human consciousness is the Christ-like point (not sure if I got the understanding and terminology correct here). Muslims acknowledge Christ as the second major prophet after Mohammed.
Of course, if one starts reading odd stuffs like "Chariots Of The Gods" by Eric Von Daniken (hope I got the name right), then the conclusion would be God was a spaceman.
in my opinion, neither you nor me
hmm.. am not well-versed with history at all, the last time i read a history book is when i'm in sec2 which is years ago :p
i just thot that if calendar system based on BC/AD is universally accepted, it should imply that universally, Christ's existence is accepted to be true.
Not sure if i made sense... but well, that's just my 2 cents' worth of thought
For me, Christ & God definitely exist and in a way, i do look forward to meeting them, so that i can find answers to all my unanswered questions :p -
i got bored.
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why?Originally posted by Ito_^:i got bored. -
Well, I am glad we are of the same intelligence quotient.
Each race and religion have their unique way to measure time. Like the Chinese calender have the a thirteen month year (ruin4 yuet4) to make up for the standard calendar leap year as well as the discrepancies in the number of days in each month in the Chinese calender.
Another interesting trivial, Jewish calender has a different way of defining days. There had always been an issue of the 3-day resurrection. The 3-day is not the same as our 3-day. I cannot remember off hand, but it has got to do with how a Jew sees which part of the day to which part of the next as ONE day. So contextual and cultural understanding is very important. -
errr.... you can always leave....Originally posted by Ito_^:i got bored.
me gotta go too.... out with the family.... yippee TGIF.... -
Sorry man, this dating system was made in the 6th century base on the age a monk calculate from the bible. In fact it is popularly known tat he was off in calculating the year of his birth ! There is really nothing holy about it, neither does it show historians have acknowledge him. AD meant Anno Domini, year of the lord.
About the acheological sites, maybe u can tell me something about it ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A673535
The Beginning of AD
Early Christians dated things by the calendar of their regional governments, but by the 6th Century a more universal system was desired.
In that day, a monk named Dionysius Exiguus, who had been born a Scythian but made a name for himself as an Abbot in Rome, was called upon to come up with a new system of numbering years. We have been using it ever since. In his days, the years were counted from the founding of Rome. While this may have been a pivotal event in the Roman mind, the once mighty Roman Empire was no longer in the heights of its former glory, and Dionysius could see it fading more. He wanted to start dating from something with permanent significance.
Being a devout man, the most significant thing he could think of was when God took on flesh, being born as a baby in Bethlehem, so that God and man could be reconciled. It has also been said he wanted to draw attention away from a controversy over Easter by stressing the birth rather than the death of Christ. In these days, all educated people spoke Latin, even if it was not their native tongue. Dionysius labelled the year of the Lord's birth as Anno Domini 1 (abbreviated 1 AD), as Anno Domini is Latin for 'The Year of The Lord'.
The Year in Question
Dionysius placed the date at 754 on the Roman Calendar. This made the sequence 752 AUC (Ab Urbe Condite or 'The founding of the city'), then 753 AUC, then 1 AD, then 2 AD etc. Notice the absence of BC, which is a suffix added by the theologian Bede a few centuries later. Dionysius did not have modern computers or astronomical data to set his date. It is believed now that he was a few years off. It is interesting to note that, despite the assertion that celebrating the resurrection on the wrong day would be blasphemous, no charge of blasphemy was levelled at the Abbot for getting his birth on the wrong year! How many years he was in error is still a matter of debate.
His system was first adopted in parts of Italy, but Charlemagne was the first ruler to give it wide usage. It then spread to other parts of the world. Bede seems to be the first historian to use it as his primary dating system. During the French Revolution and in Fascist Italy, attempts were made to start from some other year, but these never took hold the way AD has. When men were commissioned by Pope Gregory to bring the equinox back into line, they must surely have known that 1 AD was not the real year of Christ's birth, but apparently considered it outside their mandate to change and so left the benchmark year where Dionysius had placed it. -
becuz after an entire year of stress and pressure, suddenly felt empty and bored like siao, so i accept someone's invitation to church lo.Originally posted by skinnybeanie:why?
anyways my mistake, i got to noe Christ around kindergarden age, my cousin held cellgroup meetings or crap in his house, sometimes i go there play play. bt i never bought in the idea of God back then. i was more of a person who believed dat we all came to be by an accident, and quite refuted the existence of afterlife and heaven, etc. not bad for someone at my age to believe that there is nothing after you die, period... lol. -
Sticking to the topic...
I first came to know Christ during my time when i was in primary school, in Boys Brigade.
I felt peace like i've never felt before, the calmness that i've never experienced before. I believed that God was moving through my life. At the same time, moving through my family, coz i remembered one day, i came home from school to see the statues that my family used to worshipped being removed and that my whole family had turned to Christ.
My mum got to know Christ through her friend and my grandma (whom has returned to Heaven) came to acknowlegde Christ too (thankfully for that). I've always admired my grandma for her love of God. Without fail, every sunday, she would walk from my block to some block faraway just to wait for the bus to bring her to the Hainanese service at East Coast. (i used to stay at hougang).
I believe God is wonderful. He is love and He is passionate. But He is also righteous and just. Sometimes we see things from our point of view but Him, the creator of Heaven and Earth, sees the big picture. We can NEVER fathom Him, if not He wouldn't be He.
Religion has always been a controversial topic. There can be no right or wrong regarding religion. Who can be the ONE to dictate that their religion is the right religion? Religion is something personal, its gotta do with one's faith, and faith is about believing in something that is not really tangible but YOU personally feel that its there.
These are just all my personal opinions and i'm just sharing my story of how myself and my family came about to know Christ, nothing more than that. -
I got to know about Christ since kidergarten. My family send their grandchildren to Methodist kindergarten even though they are taoists. From there i got to learn about Bible stories and say grace before meals..but even then i dunno what is it all about..just feel good everytime i am in school listening to the story of Jesus.
Primary school..they send me to Presbyterian school. so again..from there learn evenmore about Christ as in the Bible. School hymns and prayers are part and parcel of assembly and everything is normal to me. No impact though.
later primary..join Boys' Brigade..Christian ECA!! from then on...other than enjoying the games and company..get to really study the Word of God seriously. think about life questions and things the Bible said.(at the same time...i am attending Buddhist darma class on sundays...my mum sent me there) so can say i hear both side of the story concurrently.
Secondary..a Chr....nope..secular school. this time round...no christian teachers and hymns liao..BB also not availbale in tt school. But continue to read the New Testament Gideon Bible BB gave me before i left sch. It's the first Bible in my life which is still in my drawer now....come to flip back...my childish handwriting when i sign my name on the line which indicates 'i personally invite Jesus into my life'...actually i sign without knowing wat that mean at tt time...but God honor my faith to put down my name first. I received Christ during mid of sec 4. after attending Bible lessons outside school held by Singapore YFC. Eventhough the sch is secular...God send ppl to reach out to me with His truth. I got to evenmore study the Bible and seriously consider abt who Jesus is. so on of the evenings in my sec 4 days....i prayed to received Jesus as my personal Savior and Lord. and looking back again at that page of the Bible which i placed my childish handwriting on it...it has greater meaning now.
Through these years of being a Christian, i felt peace and meaning in life like never before. those years in mission school are great time but without Jesus in my life it's jus fooling myself. God has touched my life again and again...and that is why i long for others to know about His saving grace.
To God be the Glory, Great things He hath done! -
The name Jesus Christ should not be unfamiliar to anybody, since Christmas is a universal holiday, celebrated even by non Christians.
But knowing that Christ or God is real, one has to make time for Him. Sometimes you may see some message saying "Spend a quiet moment with Christ". What does it mean? Does it merely mean praying to him in a quiet room? It means to put away everything (all your problems, your work stress, your worries) aside for a while and quietly pray to Him. Ever that is still not enough. You need meditation, ie. meditate on Him, His words etc.
While praying or after the prayer, try to listen to His voice. You may not hear the physical voice like a friend talking or whispering to you. But your heart will know He's talking and what He wants to say to you.
It works for me somehow, esp when I am in trouble or stress and not know what to do about it. It always reassures me His existence.