How did u came to know Christ ?
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I was wondering how did all of u came to know Christ? Izit thru frens/Sunday School/parents Christian u also Christian...etc??
1 more question, how can we know that we r worshipping the 1 & only true living God & not 1 who is non-existence? There r so many religion in this world & wat make u so confidence that this is the right 1?? Any other proof other than wat is written in the Bible? -
I will attempt to answer your question with the understanding that yours is a genuine query, not an attempt to draw anyone into a theological debate.
I came to know Christ through a gospel rally at Orchard Rd Presbyterian Church.
I was not in an emotional crisis,
I was not in pain,
I was not in financial difficult,
I was not in need of a miracle.
Since then,
I did not speak in tongues,
Healed anyone or was healed of anything
Did not become extremely wealthy but lead a comfortable life with my loved ones.
Is Jesus real to me? Yes. But I cannot make Jesus real to you. Jesus can only be real to you if you let Him.
I cannot prove to anyone that God exists to them. I am only convinced that God exists for me.
In the most basic sense, one can either choose to believe that God exist or God does not exist. If at the end of it all, when I die, and that there is no God, it does not matter.
However, if God exists and I choose not to acknowledge Him when I am alive, I am in deep shit.
Of course, this explanation is really too simple to explain the concept of faith.
If there is no God, the argument ends here. No issue, when we are alive, we may be living a lie, but who cares, so what!
If there is a God, how then we know which religion points to the right God. I really have no answer for this. How then can we please God if God exists?
By works? What then is good work, and what is inadequate good work? Good work by itself does not acknowledge one's acceptance of the authority of God, it merely points that one is able to be morally correct. So to me, good works is really a poor measure of one's religious affiliation.
Hence, the Christian faith comes in: the criteria that one must consciously accept the existing of God and the redemptive work of Christ to erase one's sins.
Then the next sticky question is the one in the other thread: what happens to people who HAS NOT heard the gospel. Theologians have many view to this and while I don't pretend to be a theologian, my opinion is that because an individual DID NOT HAVE THE CHANCE to hear the gospel, God will judge them on a separate yardstick.
I probably am not able to give you all the answers, because each answer will lead to more questions.
But personally, as long as I am convinced that my Lord Jesus is real to me is sufficient. His Grace Is Sufficient For Me. -
thanx fr yr reply....i'll think about wat u said later tonite
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1st thru my mum, then thru frens
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I came to know him, when I was very very young, probably at the age of 3.Originally posted by Sir_Horny:I was wondering how did all of u came to know Christ? Izit thru frens/Sunday School/parents Christian u also Christian...etc??
1 more question, how can we know that we r worshipping the 1 & only true living God & not 1 who is non-existence? There r so many religion in this world & wat make u so confidence that this is the right 1?? Any other proof other than wat is written in the Bible?
Being an inquisitive child, I saw a crucifix and asked my father "Who is this on the letter "t" ? " I didn't know that was called a "cross" not letter "T".
My father told me that's Jesus. And the next question I asked was "Is he American or English?" My father simply answer "He's a Jew." After that, I kept coming across His name every Good Friday and Christmas. (Good Friday esp. because in chinese it is called Ye Su sou nan jie -- which means Jesus suffering day). -
Err through reading the bible like a story book when I was a kid.
Knowing that he exist but not a Christian -
In the most basic sense, one can either choose to believe that God exist or God does not exist. If at the end of it all, when I die, and that there is no God, it does not matter.
Then u r one tat probably forward all those junk chain emails to everyone everytime u receive it. Why ? Because in the chain mail, it would state a curse to u if u do not forward to people and a reward if u did. Going by your theory, if the curse it true, and u follow its instructions, then u will have escape from it and can accept the coming reward. If it is false, u do not lose anything isn't it ? U will be in deep @^#! if it is true right ? So do u forward the dumb spam email to people everytime u receive it ? In fact, if someone just come up with any hocus pocus curse or reward on u, will u follow its instructions ? Lets say an old granny place a curse on the world saying tat those who do not lick their toes will lose ten years of their lives and if u follow it, u will gain an additional 10 years. Will u just follow it "to be safe than sorry" ?
However, if God exists and I choose not to acknowledge Him when I am alive, I am in deep $*#$.
Of course, this explanation is really too simple to explain the concept of faith.
Sorry man.. I not the kind of person who will forward any dumb chain letters to people or afraid of nonsensical curses. When we want to believe, we should believe in the truth, not anything just because it offers a reward or punishment for not following it.If there is no God, the argument ends here. No issue, when we are alive, we may be living a lie, but who cares, so what!
hmm... I will be pretty pissed off if I was made a fool or had followed a lie... I will be more pissed of if I had give away at least 10% of my income and time to an organisation tat had worked on a lie. U don't care ? U have too much money and time to burn ?
If there is a God, how then we know which religion points to the right God. I really have no answer for this.
Simple, we should do elimination. When the scipture has contents which appears to be all true, then it is highly likely it is correct. If it contains contradictions and illogical portions, then it obviously is false. Tat is the basic manner in which men distinguish between lies or truth isn't it ?Hence, the Christian faith comes in: the criteria that one must consciously accept the existing of God and the redemptive work of Christ to erase one's sins.
Faith is a very inaccurate thing. All religion have follower who r faithful, though probably only one or none is right. How do u know whose faith is correct ? Before one should have faith, isn't it better to have a good justification for tis faith first ?Then the next sticky question is the one in the other thread: what happens to people who HAS NOT heard the gospel. Theologians have many view to this and while I don't pretend to be a theologian, my opinion is that because an individual DID NOT HAVE THE CHANCE to hear the gospel, God will judge them on a separate yardstick.
Sorry to say, according to the bible, they all go to hell. Jesus say it himself, the only way for salvation is through he himself and no other way. No seperate yardstick here. If u believe in something not from the bible, then u yourself have created another religion yourself. No difference compared with other cults. -
christianity... the 'new age communists'
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sorry to disappoint you. I do not circulate dumb chain letters.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Sorry man.. I not the kind of person who will forward any dumb chain letters to people or afraid of nonsensical curses. When we want to believe, we should believe in the truth, not anything just because it offers a reward or punishment for not following it.
point is, if you're dead, you're dead. You have no chance to feel stupid or upset anymore.Originally posted by stupidissmart:hmm... I will be pretty pissed off if I was made a fool or had followed a lie... I will be more pissed of if I had give away at least 10% of my income and time to an organisation tat had worked on a lie. U don't care ? U have too much money and time to burn ?
yup, it is a very inaccurate thing. As I'd said, I don't know. I can only state what I think. It's ok if you don't agree with me.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Faith is a very inaccurate thing. All religion have follower who r faithful, though probably only one or none is right. How do u know whose faith is correct ? Before one should have faith, isn't it better to have a good justification for tis faith first ?
I am sharing something personal. You don't have to agree with me. You don't need to barge into this, which essentially is an answer to a specific individual other than yourself. I don't need to prove to anyone why I believe in God.
I have said many times that I do not agree with Christians going to other forums to lambast them with verses and damnation. I do not that myself and I'd appreciate you do the same thing.
As I am writing this, I am not angry, I am sad. I am sad because you barge in, in your usual rude manner and abuse me verbally on something that is personal, especially when I am talking only to one specific person by the name of Sir_Horny.
I have repeatly told you, it's ok if you don't agree. Didn't you become the same people you hate, by your continually coming to a forum which you basically do not agree with? -
sorry to disappoint you. I do not circulate dumb chain letters
why not ? Aren't u scared of the curses written in it ? Wat if it is true ? Isn't tat the same questioning as u had asked if God is true ?point is, if you're dead, you're dead. You have no chance to feel stupid or upset anymore.
But now u r alive. U r wasting your money and time. Don't u feel the pinch ?I am sharing something personal. You don't have to agree with me. You don't need to barge into this, which essentially is an answer to a specific individual other than yourself. I don't need to prove to anyone why I believe in God.
I am just curious and pop a few questions. The questions r not without merits of its own. U don't need to prove to me why u believe in god. I am certain u really believe in it. I just wanna know on the rationale for it.I have said many times that I do not agree with Christians going to other forums to lambast them with verses and damnation. I do not that myself and I'd appreciate you do the same thing.
U do not agree but others do. If there r people who can accept their motives as "innocent", why not u accept mine as innocent too ? Wat other benefits could I have gained from tis ?As I am writing this, I am not angry, I am sad. I am sad because you barge in, in your usual rude manner and abuse me verbally on something that is personal, especially when I am talking only to one specific person by the name of Sir_Horny.
I thought tis is a forum ? Everyone can have the right to barge in and write comments on it. If I appear to be rude and had insulted u verbally, then I apologise tat u feel as such. From another viewpoint, I am not specifically targetting just at u, but at the other people guilty of the things I had said.I have repeatly told you, it's ok if you don't agree. Didn't you become the same people you hate, by your continually coming to a forum which you basically do not agree with?
Not really. I understand why these people wanna go around to preach their religion. I do not hate them as wat u described. U do not understand why they do tat ? -
No. If you are asking specifically about chain letters, the context of such letters is ludricious. Having said that, I do not deny the possibility of the existence of the supernatural or the paranormal. Do you, in your logic discount the existence of the paranormal? Base from what you have written so far, I am guessing that you would probably not accept the existence of the supernatural and the paranormal. Do they exist? I don't know. Do you think there are spirits? I am not sure, but one time, I saw something that should not be in the place it was in. Did I freaked out? No, Why???Originally posted by stupidissmart:why not ? Aren't u scared of the curses written in it ? Wat if it is true ? Isn't tat the same questioning as u had asked if God is true ?
The context of the Christian faith is that my God is more powerful that all the supernatural that the world has to offer. So the curses, if real, would not matter. IF AT THIS POINT, YOU THINK THAT I AM CONTINUING TO BE STUPID, I REITERATE: IT'S OK WITH ME.
yeah, but right now I believe what I believe in is real. If assuming that the only way to find out whether it is real or not is after death, then it wouldn't matter would it?Originally posted by stupidissmart:But now u r alive. U r wasting your money and time. Don't u feel the pinch ?
let me just commend firstly, that at least I do not detect any hostility in this question. Thanks .... it means a lot to me. It is difficult to give you a rationale... It is like if you ask me why I love my wife. I can give you a multitude of reasons but you will still not able to understand it. The only way you can understand it if you are in love with the same person as I am in love with. Heavens forbid....Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am just curious and pop a few questions. The questions r not without merits of its own. U don't need to prove to me why u believe in god. I am certain u really believe in it. I just wanna know on the rationale for it.
I can start to assume your motives to be innocent, but you are not making this easy. Please don't take my next remarks personally:Originally posted by stupidissmart:U do not agree but others do. If there r people who can accept their motives as "innocent", why not u accept mine as innocent too ? Wat other benefits could I have gained from tis ?
1, your style of writing is extremely confrontational, and perhaps if you can improve your grammatically style, it may make understanding your writing easier.
2. you have stated many times that you do not understanding why people believe in God. Christians here had in many instances attempted to explain. You either choose to ignore the answers or choose to disagree with the answers. This being which, makes sharing with you extremely difficult. You may have already noticed that you are beginning to be ignored. I wanted to ignore you too, but I cannot. I do enjoy most of your questions, I helps reinforcing my personal belief in God.
Again, I wish to state that I am not trying to insult you, just a feedback, if you are willing to accept (again, you do not have to agree). Also note from the various comments given to you previously from other forumites that there is some element of truth in my points above.
Yes this is a forum, but I think that there are rules, written or unwritten. In a previous topic, in bar, I had defended an individual when another forumite insulted his wife. Some of the golden rules that should exist is: do not use vulgarity on another person, another good one is, if you disagree, you need not be offensive. In a way you were targetting at me, because I had shared my personal testimony. I wasn't giving an official "church" or "Christian" stand. I stated what I had gone through and why I had gone through. It's personal and if you don't agree it's ok, but let's just stop there.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I thought tis is a forum ? Everyone can have the right to barge in and write comments on it. If I appear to be rude and had insulted u verbally, then I apologise tat u feel as such. From another viewpoint, I am not specifically targetting just at u, but at the other people guilty of the things I had said.
My testimony was an answer to one individual and I had stated in the first para that I do no wish to enter into any theological debate with anyone, least of all you.
People preach for various reasons. Some preach to prove their strong affiliation to God to satisfy their ego, others preach hoping to gain membership. Still others preach because they believe what they believe in is real. I think you fall in the that last category.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Not really. I understand why these people wanna go around to preach their religion. I do not hate them as wat u described. U do not understand why they do tat ?
Like it or not, you ARE AN EVANGELIST, with your own gospel, and in many ways you put me to shame. I am not a person who shares the gospel unless asked. Obviously if a question is asked of me on theology I will answer to the best of my knowledge, but I will never dream of entering into House of Feng Shui and starts quoting verses about occult and sorcery. -
i was born into the religion
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Actually, I think that all religions came or emanated from the same divine source. This explains why all religions teach the same things. I believe The reason why people argue about the difference in teachings is because of misinterpretation through the scriptures. There is no such thing as the "one true religion" or the "right religion". All paths lead to God. Its just that different people chooses differnt routes.Originally posted by Sir_Horny:I was wondering how did all of u came to know Christ? Izit thru frens/Sunday School/parents Christian u also Christian...etc??
1 more question, how can we know that we r worshipping the 1 & only true living God & not 1 who is non-existence? There r so many religion in this world & wat make u so confidence that this is the right 1?? Any other proof other than wat is written in the Bible? -
Hey Sir HOrny, I found this quote from Buddha and from Socrates.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
Buddha (563BC-483BC)
"Then let us again examine whether that is a sound statement, or do we let it pass, and if one of us, or someone else, merely says that something is so, do we accept that it is so? Or should we examine what the speaker means?"
Socrates
I hope this helps you on your quest to seek the truth -
Hey stupidissmart, u seem very knowledgeable in the Bible...but I do not know the reason y u sound so against. Mayb some Christian did wrong u in the past, as in my case yes I had a misunderstanding with the youth leaders & whatever they appoint me to do, I did it on purpose not to turn up at the last moment & let the whole thing screw up...but as I think back, y do I still keep this grudge against them.
I've been reading some of the topic they post here & thru their discussion I was able to learn quite alot of interesting stuff. Although they r from different denomination, they show me the better side of Christianity.
I'm still struggling with my faith & at times I want to doubt the existence of God. I envy my Christian bro. & sis who is so successful...while I'm such a failure...& I always say that God is unfair. U know the word well & I hope u use it wisely....& wat u said all along I hope it's just a way of u expressing your anger, someday I hope u'll come back to the right path. It doesn't matter if God exist....we hav nothing to lose, just don't wait till it's too late when we meet the Maker & find out that He exist....then it's already too late -
thanx for the quoteOriginally posted by shade343:Hey Sir HOrny, I found this quote from Buddha and from Socrates.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
Buddha (563BC-483BC)
"Then let us again examine whether that is a sound statement, or do we let it pass, and if one of us, or someone else, merely says that something is so, do we accept that it is so? Or should we examine what the speaker means?"
Socrates
I hope this helps you on your quest to seek the truth -
~~ duplicate post ~~
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Hello Sir_Horny (gee, feels wierd to say that in a Christian forum :mrgreen
You know your post is encouraging. You've shown your willingness to let go of the past
2 Timothy 2:1
You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
I hope this verse will encourage you to embrace God's grace again
I got to know Christianity during my secondary school (St. Andrew's) days. It was during one of the Religioius Emphasis Week that I accepted Christ. Didn't exactly knew what it was then, but as I learn about Him and experience Him, my faith grew -
What is success and what is failure?Originally posted by Sir_Horny:H
I'm still struggling with my faith & at times I want to doubt the existence of God. I envy my Christian bro. & sis who is so successful...while I'm such a failure...& I always say that God is unfair. U know the word well & I hope u use it wisely....& wat u said all along I hope it's just a way of u expressing your anger, someday I hope u'll come back to the right path. It doesn't matter if God exist....we hav nothing to lose, just don't wait till it's too late when we meet the Maker & find out that He exist....then it's already too late
I am not a Christian because I want to be wealthy and healthy, which I am not.
I do not serve because I want recognition for my work. In fact, if given a choice, I'd rather sink back into the hole where I come from.
I did not give because I want to be rewarded, my only regret is that I don't think I give enough (which is true from the financial standpoint)
My wife and I have good reasonably well-paying jobs but we are not extremely well-off, each big ticket expense has to be considered thoroughly before spending.
My sons are responsible, motivated individuals who also believe in Jesus Christ. Do reasonably well in school but will probably not be valedictorian students.
We are all reasonably healthy though we fall sick now and then.
We do get upset sometimes with the way the church is run or by the way some people who profess to be Christians behave. Many times we are hurt by the way some church members operate.
But hey.... it's not about the other Christians, it's about our personal relationship with God. This relationship is not easy. Some days I fall, some days I pick up people who fall down.
So it goes back to my original question: what is success and what is failure?
It all depends on the yardstick you use to measure...... -
Whoa!!! I am from SA too....Originally posted by sillyme:I got to know Christianity during my secondary school (St. Andrew's) days. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Whoa!!! I am from SA too....
grad in 1991
alamak we're harry tan's products
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I am old timer.... Francis Thomas, then Janssen (I think) followed by Bionic Boy (ha ha snigger, so rude).....Originally posted by sillyme:
grad in 1991
alamak we're harry tan's products
Glad to know that "Boys" do "become men"
Up and on.... -
success to me doesn't mean to be extremely wealthy & I never ask God to make me rich & I don't need him to...all I want is a stable job as I'm working for an agency who send me to be base in a company. my contract is renew yearly & I don't see this position extending on for more than 5 yearsOriginally posted by Chin Eng:What is success and what is failure?
career & study wise...I'm very much way behind of them. i remember during high school, after every major exam, ppl will be asking how well we did...ppl will be congratulating them while all I could said was "I did OK"......if u insist on knowing how was my OK, it's just no good. I just dun feel comfortable being surrounded by such ppl evry Sunday -
[quote]Originally posted by Chin Eng:
However, if God exists and I choose not to acknowledge Him when I am alive, I am in deep shit.
why would one be in deep shit if one choose to live the way one believe to be right? i'd rather be a free roaming goat than be a sheep and live by the rules of others. once a choice is made, deal with the consequences.
this 'believe in me, have a place in paradise. if you don't, you're looking at hell'
really sounds like a threat.
question: non-christian pacifist, christan nazi. who goes to hell?
no 'god knows' answers, please. -
Originally posted by fett:[quote]Originally posted by Chin Eng:
However, if God exists and I choose not to acknowledge Him when I am alive, I am in deep shit.
why would one be in deep shit if one choose to live the way one believe to be right? i'd rather be a free roaming goat than be a sheep and live by the rules of others. once a choice is made, deal with the consequences.
this 'believe in me, have a place in paradise. if you don't, you're looking at hell'
really sounds like a threat.
question: non-christian pacifist, christan nazi. who goes to hell?
no 'god knows' answers, please. no problem with me.... be a free roaming goat.... your choice, does not really concern me. If there is no God, then both of us die into oblivion, we can't continue to argue about it in oblivion. If there is a God.... well, you decide. no such thing as a christian nazi. KKKs are not Christians either. There are many groups/people who choose to believe in a perverse gospel. It is also not possible to be a christian assassin (like Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction). non-christian pacifist? not sure where this is getting at. Is being a pacifist the end of it all? how about a vegetarian who believes that he should not harm God's animals? or a non-christian philantrophist? if you are an atheist (someone who does not believe in the existence of a higher being) then there is really nothing to discuss. You have your views and I have mine. The end.
If however, you believe in the existence of a higher being, then the question would be, if you are that higher being, what would you require of your creations. no way can i prove to anyone here the existence of God. I can only show my allegiance to my God, which happens to be real to me, if it offends anyone, too bad. Within SG forums, I will only do it in Eternal Hope (unless someone starts a thread in another place that needed a Christian comment).