Originally posted by Icemoon:
[b]In the Old Testament, we will read about the Spirit of God moving over the waters(Genesis 1)
Nothing wrong with God as a spirit. But this may not be the Holy Spirit in Christianity. The exact Hebrew words are "veruach Elokim". I don't think this refers to the Holy Spirit specifically.
Neon: Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
(Psalm 51:11)
When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him . (Numbers 24:2)
and in the lives of the prophets and kings God ordained, He send the Holy Spirit to rest upon them to empower them
I'm not sure of this, perhaps you can cite some OT verses?
Neon: When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him (King Saul) in power, and he joined in their prophesying. ( 1 Samuel 10:10)
The doctrines of trinity though not expressively taught in Judaism does not mean that the trinity does not exists.
You are right. On the surface, it looks like I was using the argument from silence .. heehee
It is only in Jesus Christ can the fullness of God be revealed to us. There is no contradicting in any doctrines except that people of Judaism refuse to believe Jesus being the Messiah since He came and die for them on the cross and appear like a looser.
Actually there are two issues here but you listed only one, or that you thought they are the same.
The Jewish people refuse to believe Jesus being the Messiah. They also refuse to believe Jesus is God. It is never stated explicitly in the OT that the Messiah has to be God?
Neon: In Isaiah 9, the prophesy of the Messiah plainly mentioned about 'Mighty God' and also about being a descendant of King David.
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.
The Jews, in their pride and expectations expect to see a powerful warrior as their Messiah, someone of social and political status.
You can't blame them mah. They were oppressed under the Romans. And you miss out one very important observation - Jews may appear prideful to christians, but deep down the refusal to acknowledge Jesus as Lord steams from their 'loyalty' to God from the OT. Today their attitude has not changed much.
God to you must be glorified. God to them must be glorified. Nothing is impossible for God. Yet Jesus on the cross can't even save himself. Can you tolerate the idea that God the Father cannot even save Himself? (Don't presuppose God is the Trinity) How can they believe God, who appeared to Moses and Ezekiel in all the glory, was flogged and humiliated like a prisoner? What's more, after this supposed Messiah came, the Temple was destroyed. The Jews went into the Second Diaspora. They ceased to exist as a civilization. I'm sorry, but this guy is only making it worse. Put yourself in their shoes. Can you believe this poor peasant is the Messiah?
Human character is like that. You can't expect them to support a loser. We live in the age of the Prosperity and Health Gospel, that's why we can scream 'King of King, Lord of Lord' every Sunday. Imagine the church in Jurong West got burnt down. Pastors who pray for others can't even save themselves. I'm sorry, but this isn't good for the altar call.[/b]
Neon: the God of the Bible although is majestic and holy chose to appear not as some prince or person with wealth and power. He came as a man....of low status, the Bible says He appeared as man...the form of a servant. Which is what the prophetic OT talks about in Isaiah 53.
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
