did he die for me or not?
-
why are u people indulging in this topic by someone who probably come to sgforums to post and decide to leave it suddenly so that the anti-christ debate with christians..?
I'm having a very bad opinion of this jennyxxxx character now and I think she was just trying to stir things up. -
I
n the very beginning, I already said you were an orphan. But you twisted my analogy and invented a foster father. My original was and still is - IF you believe that man to be your father, then you cannot believe another man to be your father. The crux is, the christian worldview entails the one and only G-d YHWH. So if you believe in it, there's no reason why you can also believe in the polytheism of other religions. Unless you're an irrational person.
Why can't I twist the story a bit ? Why do u set all the rules and I follow them ? Why don't u treat it as a new analogy tat I had came out with asked back to u. Is tat wrong ?
The crux is, why does he have to demand people to believe in him ? Doesn't tat make him sounds egoistic ? For other religion they never classified people according to wat u believed in. They just say "if u did a bad deed, tis will happened to u watever your religion is". Why Jesus death is a totally different scenario where he state a condtition tat people have to believed in him before being saved ? Is tat free ?Why doesn't he "saved" people regardless of their religion ? ... He demand people to believe in him THEN he give out help. The word THEN in the previous statement is very important. It is a condition.
I don't see your point. Wat is the relationship ? Please elaborate.
This question is related to another common question - does G-d listen to prayers of unbelievers? Many protestants will tell you ... no.However there is not wat the bible or catholic says about baptised. They say tat if babies are not baptised and die, then they will go to limbo.
So wat is your conclusion ? The catholics are wrong in saying unbaptised child go to limbo ? Limbo is just a story to scare people into baptising their children so they become "rightfully" christians ?
Physical baptism is still a 'work'. It is external 'action action' only. G-d looks at the heart, not by appearance.Rubbish. If this is so, why did the Hebrews sacrifce the lamb to G-d every year?
They sacrificed because God is easily "bribed" by giving it a lamb. From genesis
3. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the [b]fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5. But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.[/b]
They give to make God happy. God like men to kill lambs for sacrifice and not like "vegetarian" stuffs. Poor Cain... both of them give the fruit of their labour to God but he punish Cain for... well... no good reason.... How can Cain knows God like to kill lamb and not take crops ?When I say free, I mean you don't have to work for it, like doing good works
When means free, it is without charge. Clearly it is attached with a condition tat make it "costly" to some people. -
why are u people indulging in this topic by someone who probably come to sgforums to post and decide to leave it suddenly so that the anti-christ debate with christians..?
I have my own things tat needed to discuss which has nothing to do with jenny.
I'm having a very bad opinion of this jennyxxxx character now and I think she was just trying to stir things up.
BTW I believe he is panja. So is chaicha or something.... -
Certain churches/denominations believe that baptism by water is part of salvation. It isnt. Only one thing is required which is to believe in Jesus. From what I understand, when you believe, the holy spirit comes and lives in you. That is the true baptism. john the baptist said he baptise with water but one greater then he will come and baptise with the holy spirit. That is not a direct quote.
About babies, I'm not good at explaining stuff as can be seen from previous post so i'll give a link.
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-f006.html
And the reason you shouldnt kill your child is because its their life doesnt really belong to you. Yes, it is your child but the life is from God. Anyway, in my opinion, always choose life over death. -
Certain churches/denominations believe that baptism by water is part of salvation. It isnt.
Just a question... who r u to judge tat they r wrong and u r right ? I mean wat concrete evidence do u have to say tat they r wrong and baptism isn't part of salvation ?Only one thing is required which is to believe in Jesus. From what I understand, when you believe, the holy spirit comes and lives in you. That is the true baptism. john the baptist said he baptise with water but one greater then he will come and baptise with the holy spirit. That is not a direct quote.
Now tat is another strange concept... why can't the "holy spirit" lives in u when u r born ? Why do u have to wait till u believe in it ? SO baptise is not needed ? The ritual is unnecessary ? SO all christians who read tis shouldn't waste your time baptising children since it means nothing.
Tat is another question I need to ask... why do u take "John the baptised" words as truth since he appears to be only mere humans. Does God left out details when he "wrote" the bibles and need people to fill it in in future ? Is he not worried of possible abuse since he already have a great feeling tat men are sinners ?We cannot simply assume that children are "innocent" and are therefore exempt from the penalties of sin. The Bible teaches clearly that infants are in a state of sin and need to be regenerated. They, like all humanity, can be saved only through Christ
From your website... it appears tat they seems to have brought out a lot of biblical contradictions. Up till now no one seems to be sure wat happened when babies die. It even say when u r born, u have sinned. Why ???!?!? They have no motives ! If sinning is as certain as being born, then God might as well just punish us in the first place... wait we r already punished by having death and pregnancy and work etc... Will we been free of punishment even when we believe ? Nope.
While Christ's endorsement of childlike character is not a denial of sin nature, the Bible does seem to teach that compared to the sins of adults, infants and children possess a "relative innocence."
The persistence of this debate has been aided by the fact that the writers of Scripture did not explicitly comment on this subject
The conclusion is dissappointing either. The author has nothing to show and only says tatIt is my conviction, however, that although infant salvation is not taught explicitly, based upon the justice and character of God, infant salvation is an implicit certainty
I do not want merely his words or hope or expectation. Does he know God well ? Does he think like God ? God has justice ? Where do u see tat ? He condemned men to be sinners when they r borned, kill people just because he is not respected, kill indiscriminately, kill to show people an example, kill to test people etc.
SO HOW ? Wat is your stand ? The website shows nothing but biblical contradictions. Why don't u explain yourself ? -
Why can't I twist the story a bit ? Why do u set all the rules and I follow them ?
Simple. That is MY analogy and I did not give you the liberty to twist it.
Why don't u treat it as a new analogy tat I had came out with asked back to u. Is tat wrong ?
Yours is a bad analogy. The christian worldview does not allow two "fathers", so there's no way your analogy can even make sense.
I don't see your point. Wat is the relationship ? Please elaborate.
Regarding G-d not hearing prayers as believed by some protestants .. it may shed some light on why G-d don't save unbelievers like you said. On the barrier between them and G-d.
When means free, it is without charge. Clearly it is attached with a condition tat make it "costly" to some people.
It is without charge mah. Like you go for free buffet (parents pay) or take some free brochures on the receptionist desk ... you need to pay? Do you give something to the restaurant or lady in order to eat your food or take the brochure?
It is the same story here. You don't give something (good works) in order to receive salvation. Salvation is given by the grace of G-d. This is the main point. -
Just a question... who r u to judge tat they r wrong and u r right ? I mean wat concrete evidence do u have to say tat they r wrong and baptism isn't part of salvation ?
What is your worldview, really? Instead of asking silly questions, why not you tell us a bit more about your worldview? Like do you believe truth to be absolute or relative? Are you a post-modernist?
I feel no point bickering if our presuppositions are so vastly different. If we can't agree on the 'foundation', there's no way we can hold a decent discussion, really. -
Oh yah, I'm here to tell you - you are in the matrix.
Everything you see is illusionary. Descartes Demon is playing a fool on you. There's no way you can escape as all your sensory inputs are conjured by the demon.
Don't ask me to prove you are in a matrix, since all my proofs could be messed up by the demon before reaching your brain. You agree?
You prove to yourself you are not in a matrix first.
Until the day you find one such proof, do not reply to this forum. -
Tat is silly. To take your taunt seriouslySimple. That is MY analogy and I did not give you the liberty to twist it. [/quote]
Too bad I am going to twist your analogy whether u like it or not
Neh~ neh neh neh neh ~~ 
Yours is a bad analogy. The christian worldview does not allow two "fathers", so there's no way your analogy can even make sense.
Tat is again a silly thing u had said. There is a father raising u and a real father tat had given birth to u. I don't care wat your christin world view is. Tat is the view from normal people living in the realistic world. R u in the realistic world ?Regarding G-d not hearing prayers as believed by some protestants .. it may shed some light on why G-d don't save unbelievers like you said. On the barrier between them and G-d.
Why don't u tell me about it ? Or u r not capable to write long replies ?It is without charge mah. Like you go for free buffet (parents pay) or take some free brochures on the receptionist desk ... you need to pay? Do you give something to the restaurant or lady in order to eat your food or take the brochure?
U need to pay the cashier before u get to eat the buffet bro. U get a credit card brochure which also states u need to earn at least 30,000 per month before u can register for a gold card. Even for tat u need to pay a yearly subscribtion fees
It is the same story here. You don't give something (good works) in order to receive salvation. Salvation is given by the grace of G-d. This is the main point.
Why ? Cannot twist your analogy again ? Neh neh neh neh neh ~~!What is your worldview, really? Instead of asking silly questions, why not you tell us a bit more about your worldview? Like do you believe truth to be absolute or relative? Are you a post-modernist?
Wat is your world view actually ? U have at least say tat a thousand times in all the replies. Why don't u describe yours first ? Last time u just brush it aside without writing anything on it isn't it ? I don't understand why do we need a "foundation" in the first place either.
I feel no point bickering if our presuppositions are so vastly different. If we can't agree on the 'foundation', there's no way we can hold a decent discussion, really
And please the previous question about why do u think they r wrong and u r right still applies. DOn't try to avoid tat one by your little detour...
[quote]Oh yah, I'm here to tell you - you are in the matrix.
Everything you see is illusionary. Descartes Demon is playing a fool on you. There's no way you can escape as all your sensory inputs are conjured by the demon.
Don't ask me to prove you are in a matrix, since all my proofs could be messed up by the demon before reaching your brain. You agree?
You prove to yourself you are not in a matrix first.Until the day you find one such proof, do not reply to this forum. Why don't u come out with proof to show we r living inthe matrix first then I will stop replying to this thread
For the matrix, I mean the show Matrix, the computers r out to deceive men. Tat is why they erase any evidence proof or try to erase watever knowledge tat men will have to continue deceiving men. The computer try to paint a better world than wat the actual world really is. The computer r making up a fake world by showing all the evidence tat points to the it
Doesn't tat sounds familar to wat some religion is about in the opposite sense ?
In the other case, they don't have any evidence with them at all ! They can't even explain certain issues tat show it is inconsistent neither do they have any evidence anything written by the bible had occured before. The only thing they stand on is blind faith. Believers r making up a fake world themselves by refusing all the evidence tat points to it. -
Tat is again a silly thing u had said. There is a father raising u and a real father tat had given birth to u. I don't care wat your christin world view is.
That is precisely why yours won't make a good analogy, since you don't care about the worldview.
Tat is the view from normal people living in the realistic world. R u in the realistic world ?
We are in the matrix?
Why don't u tell me about it ? Or u r not capable to write long replies ?
I do not like to write long reply. Firstly, you don't deserve a one shot long reply, as we have too many different presupposition. Secondly a long reply increases the chance of making mistakes. Thirdly, it may be digressing and wasting bandwidth.
U need to pay the cashier before u get to eat the buffet bro. U get a credit card brochure which also states u need to earn at least 30,000 per month before u can register for a gold card. Even for tat u need to pay a yearly subscribtion fees
See, you twisted my analogy again. Lucky I never write a one page long analogy, or you twist it again and waste my time.
And please the previous question about why do u think they r wrong and u r right still applies. DOn't try to avoid tat one by your little detour...
If you are a relativist, it's very hard for this mini-topic to carry on. Look, we are dealing with enthymeme here you understand?
Tat is silly. To take your taunt seriously Why don't u come out with proof to show we r living inthe matrix first then I will stop replying to this thread
In what way is it silly? You can't disprove it either. You now have two choices. How you know which one is right? Conduct a scientific experiment? Haha.
Come on, if you cannot prove you're in a matrix means you're unsure whether you're in a matrix. If you're unsure whether you're in a matrix means you cannot prove what you see, feel, hear, touch and smell is true.
I study Communication. Whether you take Harold Lasswell model of communication or the Osgold-Schramm model of interpersonal communication, a channel is needed. So now this demon is corrupting the channel. How to carry on discussion like that?
Believers r making up a fake world themselves by refusing all the evidence tat points to it.
How to believe the evidence when the Descartes Demon is playing a fool on them? -
Just a question... who r u to judge tat they r wrong and u r right ? I mean wat concrete evidence do u have to say tat they r wrong and baptism isn't part of salvation ?
You are right. I am no one to judge. But I do know what I read from the Bible and it clearly says that there is only one way for salvation and only one thing needed which is the belief in jesus christ. Its in numerous verses and these verses are straightforward and does not needed interpretation.Now tat is another strange concept... why can't the "holy spirit" lives in u when u r born ? Why do u have to wait till u believe in it ? SO baptise is not needed ? The ritual is unnecessary ? SO all christians who read tis shouldn't waste your time baptising children since it means nothing.
In my opinion baptism is a symbol of acceptance. Its like going to church. Its not wrong to not go to church. It is not necessary to go to church, but people do. I really dont know why the holy spirit doesnt live in the person when he or she is born. That is why I continue studying the bible and reading stuff to learn.Tat is another question I need to ask... why do u take "John the baptised" words as truth since he appears to be only mere humans. Does God left out details when he "wrote" the bibles and need people to fill it in in future ? Is he not worried of possible abuse since he already have a great feeling tat men are sinners ?
The bible is the inspirired word of God. I do not believe that God would let people make changes to his word. And in the end of Revelation its says that whoever makes changes will be punished.From your website... it appears tat they seems to have brought out a lot of biblical contradictions. Up till now no one seems to be sure wat happened when babies die. It even say when u r born, u have sinned. Why ???!?!? They have no motives ! If sinning is as certain as being born, then God might as well just punish us in the first place... wait we r already punished by having death and pregnancy and work etc... Will we been free of punishment even when we believe ? Nope.
No one is sure what happens when babies die. No one is sure what happens when they die. Trust in the word of God. Original sin is inherited. Nope, we are not fee od physical death and all that when we are punished but 80years in eternity is just like a speck of dust.
The conclusion is dissappointing either. The author has nothing to show and only says tatI do not want merely his words or hope or expectation. Does he know God well ? Does he think like God ? God has justice ? Where do u see tat ? He condemned men to be sinners when they r borned, kill people just because he is not respected, kill indiscriminately, kill to show people an example, kill to test people etc.
No one knows the mind of God. Men choose to sin. God kills? Lol, so far I have not read a piece of news saying God had killed someone. Then the age long question comes on why God allowed men to sin. I dont know and I believe these question will be answered in heaven.
SO HOW ? Wat is your stand ? The website shows nothing but biblical contradictions. Why don't u explain yourself ?
My stand is that babies do go to heaven from what I've read in the bible. In revelation, Jesus comes and raptures children and believers. That is one reason I believe children go to heaven. -
well i do have 1 suggestion tat is to close this thread. tis debate is non stop n is meaningless. its becoming a flaming session, so moderator close tis topic dude.
-
well i do have 1 suggestion tat is to close this thread
stupidissmart will feel buay song since his questions not answered ... lol -
That is precisely why yours won't make a good analogy, since you don't care about the worldview
Wat is your world view ? Tell me !We are in the matrix?
No, I am just saying u r not realisticI do not like to write long reply. Firstly, you don't deserve a one shot long reply, as we have too many different presupposition. Secondly a long reply increases the chance of making mistakes. Thirdly, it may be digressing and wasting bandwidth.
In other words u r not capable of writing long replies. U r asking other people to write long replies to u such as writing world view etc yet u do not want to do it yourself because u feel writing long replies is a disadvantage. I see tat as despicable....See, you twisted my analogy again. Lucky I never write a one page long analogy, or you twist it again and waste my time.
Why don't u answer tis new analogy I had made instead of giving excuses to avoid talking about it ?If you are a relativist, it's very hard for this mini-topic to carry on. Look, we are dealing with enthymeme here you understand?
Wow big words man. How much people reading tis thread will know wat u r talking about ? Using simple english is the best englishIn what way is it silly? You can't disprove it either. You now have two choices. How you know which one is right? Conduct a scientific experiment? Haha.
U know wat it is silly ? Because u just ask something with no linking to wat I had replied before. In fact u r asking "wat is real" which is a question tat had been asked for centuries ! Wat has tis got to do with religion ? Anyway I will still entertain u with an answer.
Come on, if you cannot prove you're in a matrix means you're unsure whether you're in a matrix. If you're unsure whether you're in a matrix means you cannot prove what you see, feel, hear, touch and smell is true.
I study Communication. Whether you take Harold Lasswell model of communication or the Osgold-Schramm model of interpersonal communication, a channel is needed. So now this demon is corrupting the channel. How to carry on discussion like that?
Since we do not know, or will never know whether we r living in the "real" environment, might as well treat tis as the real environment. Wat we see, smell or taste r wat it actually is. So u wanna think about tis silly question when it may be highly likely tis is the real environment ? U wanna treat everything u see or use as unreal and wat, decide to give up on yourself, give up trying to find the truth ?How to believe the evidence when the Descartes Demon is playing a fool on them?
So u gonna quit and stay dead ? Maybe descartes demon is playing a fool and telling people to believe in religion which is a diversion from the truth.You are right. I am no one to judge. But I do know what I read from the Bible and it clearly says that there is only one way for salvation and only one thing needed which is the belief in jesus christ. Its in numerous verses and these verses are straightforward and does not needed interpretation.
I think we r going one big circle.....
Since this is further confirmed by guest, next time please do not use the wording tat "God saves all men" when all it did is saves believersThe bible is the inspirired word of God. I do not believe that God would let people make changes to his word. And in the end of Revelation its says that whoever makes changes will be punished.
The whole chunk of new testament is written by men after many years. U believe in it ?No one is sure what happens when babies die. No one is sure what happens when they die. Trust in the word of God. Original sin is inherited. Nope, we are not fee od physical death and all that when we are punished but 80years in eternity is just like a speck of dust.
Since no one knew wat happened when they die, wat if they just die and there r no after life ? Won't tat make u guys being cheated for your only 80 years of life ?No one knows the mind of God. Men choose to sin. God kills? Lol, so far I have not read a piece of news saying God had killed someone. Then the age long question comes on why God allowed men to sin. I dont know and I believe these question will be answered in heaven.
HUH !!! Almost every few chapters u see God killing people ! God is the one tat invents death in the first place ! Wat do God do to the people in Noah's Ark story ? God flooded the land and killed almost all beast and men. Wat happened to Job family ? They were killed just to test Job's faith. Wat happened to the first born of egypt during moses time ? They were killed just to force Ramses to release Moses and the people. Wat happened to the chasing chariots tat went chasing them after ? They were sweep to death by the Red sea. They r much much more examples of God killing people throughout the bible. In fact he killed more people than all the wars by human being added together !
BTW... u seemed to have no answer for a lot of things tat happened. Aren't u suspicious why is there so much loopholes in the bible ? Even if u studied all the bibles and scriptures, u will never get the answer too as it is never written in the first place. Do u just blindly believe ? -
U r asking other people to write long replies to u such as writing world view etc yet u do not want to do it yourself because u feel writing long replies is a disadvantage. I see tat as despicable....
My worldview is unimportant here, since we're not arguing about my personal conviction.
As far as this topic is concerned, just treat my worldview as the christian worldview. With regards to your flawed analogy, my worldview entails the existence of the monotheistic God who is omnipotent, omnipresence and omniscence. Uncaused Himself and the First Cause for everything. Hence it is irrational to worship Him and at the same time, another deity as God.
Why don't u answer tis new analogy I had made instead of giving excuses to avoid talking about it ?
Ok, what is this new analogy? I'm lazy to scroll up.
Wow big words man. How much people reading tis thread will know wat u r talking about ? Using simple english is the best english
It is to confound you ... aiyah it is better to be precise mah, must sound pro also ... lol
U know wat it is silly ? Because u just ask something with no linking to wat I had replied before. ...Wat has tis got to do with religion ?
Simple. I wanted to bring out the problem of ... *tata big word again* ... presupposition.
Since we do not know, or will never know whether we r living in the "real" environment, might as well treat tis as the real environment.
Chey, so you no proof lah. So pathetic. At the most fundamental level, you're still acting on this thing called faith. Haiz.
Maybe descartes demon is playing a fool and telling people to believe in religion which is a diversion from the truth.
Yar lor yar lor ... no one can disprove it also ... lol
The whole chunk of new testament is written by men after many years. U believe in it ?
You believe in the Qu'ran? It was written by the illiterate Prophet with dictation by Angel Gabriel. Sure no mistakes one, unless he hear wrongly and the angel never check.
Since no one knew wat happened when they die, wat if they just die and there r no after life ? Won't tat make u guys being cheated for your only 80 years of life ?
You won't be anywhere to contemplate this loss/scam. -
My worldview is unimportant here, since we're not arguing about my personal conviction.
My worldview is unimportant here too, since we're not arguing about my personal conviction.As far as this topic is concerned, just treat my worldview as the christian worldview.
Wat is the christian world view ?With regards to your flawed analogy, my worldview entails the existence of the monotheistic God who is omnipotent, omnipresence and omniscence. Uncaused Himself and the First Cause for everything. Hence it is irrational to worship Him and at the same time, another deity as God.
Flawed ? IMO yours is the one tat is flawed. I guess it is always easy to see how brillant one analogy is but not being in the eyes of the others. Let the readers decide then
Wat is my world view, there is no God or any deity around. Wat we see is wat we get. Simple as tat.Simple. I wanted to bring out the problem of ... *tata big word again* ... presupposition.
I do not see your point in bringing out *presupposition* even up till now. Care to elaborate further ?Chey, so you no proof lah. So pathetic. At the most fundamental level, you're still acting on this thing called faith. Haiz.
At least my faith rest on something I can see, feel, sense, argue and test. My faith is provable and thus rational. Yours rest on thin air with tons of loopholes and contradictions which can never be verified, tested or sensed.You believe in the Qu'ran? It was written by the illiterate Prophet with dictation by Angel Gabriel. Sure no mistakes one, unless he hear wrongly and the angel never check.
Actually I am illiterate too... it is the Angel Whoqqozkkkyw tat guides me to type out the keys for these replies
I do not believe in the Quran either. The prophet tell u he is illiterate is the same as I telling u I am illiterate after writing so many replies. Illiterate ? Illiterate in chinese or japanese bah. DO u know the prophet ? Maybe he is another 2.3 m Lu Bu carrying a 50kg weopon with one hand.You won't be anywhere to contemplate this loss/scam
Well, anybody can say wat they like about people after death since it can never be tested. It is similar to cheats selling "miracle pills" to old grannies tat was said to cure cancer. U only know is effectiveness after eating the pills right ? But after eating the pills and found u have been cheated, it is too late.
If u want to be naive and just use money and your time to buy something tat was never proven right, then go ahead.
BTW if heaven is so certain, why god want to hide it from the people ? Surely everyone will start believing in him if it is certain. Why not show it to us ? Or is tis another game he want to play with human ? -
The whole chunk of new testament is written by men after many years. U believe in it ?
I believe it is the inspired word of God. The holy spirit were with the people who wrote what God wanted them to write.Since no one knew wat happened when they die, wat if they just die and there r no after life ? Won't tat make u guys being cheated for your only 80 years of life ?
Yes, I have asked that question before. What if none of this is real and we are just toys in a bigger world. I believe its either all real or all false.HUH !!! Almost every few chapters u see God killing people ! God is the one tat invents death in the first place ! Wat do God do to the people in Noah's Ark story ? God flooded the land and killed almost all beast and men. Wat happened to Job family ? They were killed just to test Job's faith. Wat happened to the first born of egypt during moses time ? They were killed just to force Ramses to release Moses and the people. Wat happened to the chasing chariots tat went chasing them after ? They were sweep to death by the Red sea. They r much much more examples of God killing people throughout the bible. In fact he killed more people than all the wars by human being added together !
Like I said, people ask why God allowed sin allowed death and all that. I dont know the answer coz I dont know God's mind. I was thinking in current contex that God doesnt kill people.BTW... u seemed to have no answer for a lot of things tat happened. Aren't u suspicious why is there so much loopholes in the bible ? Even if u studied all the bibles and scriptures, u will never get the answer too as it is never written in the first place. Do u just blindly believe ?
Yes, I have no answer for many things that is why I continue to study the bible and learn from others. Have you studied all the bibles and scriptures? And if your answer is yes, I assuming you are an ex-christian? I dont blindly belief, my belief comes from stuff that I have seen. Cancer patients who the doctors say are dieing being cured of cancer suddenly, that is a miracle. I dont want to talk about my experience but I know there is a higher being looking after me. -
My worldview is unimportant here too, since we're not arguing about my personal conviction.
Fine ... now you know why you don't get the answers. Heh.
Wat is the christian world view ?
I'm not gonna waste time answering this question which you already have the answer, or part of it. I can forsee one page of worldview essay (even to the extent of copy n' paste) is going to invite one page of rebuke from you.
I guess it is always easy to see how brillant one analogy is but not being in the eyes of the others. Let the readers decide then
Sure.
Wat is my world view, there is no God or any deity around. Wat we see is wat we get. Simple as tat.
I respect your worldview.
At least my faith rest on something I can see, feel, sense, argue and test. My faith is provable and thus rational.
Excuse me, your faith rests on something that you are proving? You can't even prove what you see, feel, sense is true, and you want to depend on them for your faith? This is circular reasoning lah.
DO u know the prophet ? Maybe he is another 2.3 m Lu Bu carrying a 50kg weopon with one hand.
Skully the muslims hantum you tomorrow ... or initiate a jihad against you.
If u want to be naive and just use money and your time to buy something tat was never proven right, then go ahead.
I think we play safe ... we enjoy our life first then at the very last moment accept the Lord. How about it? Heehee ... -
Fine ... now you know why you don't get the answers. Heh.
I'm not gonna waste time answering this question which you already have the answer, or part of it. I can forsee one page of worldview essay (even to the extent of copy n' paste) is going to invite one page of rebuke from you.
I am using your same answer on u to show how fantastic of u to ask me to write my world view while u refuse to write yoursExcuse me, your faith rests on something that you are proving? You can't even prove what you see, feel, sense is true, and you want to depend on them for your faith? This is circular reasoning lah.
I have already said about 2 times tat it is silly to think deeper tat u r being in a matrix or something where u can never know the result and where it is unlikely to happen THEREFORE we should treat the things we can see, proved and sense as the TRUTH. U want to ignore tis point again in your next reply and try to be dumb writing "U can't even prove wat u see is real etc bla bla bla" ?
For your side, u don't even consider the things u can see, sense or prove to be your faith. U just believe in something because it promises u some benefits. And don't come and tell me there is no benefit u can reap from being a christians since only christians get to be savedSkully the muslims hantum you tomorrow ... or initiate a jihad against you.
They should probably do tat to u first since u r suggesting tat they r violent and unreasonable from this replyI think we play safe ... we enjoy our life first then at the very last moment accept the Lord. How about it? Heehee ...
If u want to do tat, it is okie. So go out and live your life as normal people without going to church or pray or tilte or buy HYS cd then before u die, u start beliving in God "to play safe". Tat is the only criterion to go to heaven isn't it -
I believe it is the inspired word of God. The holy spirit were with the people who wrote what God wanted them to write.
....... does the idea tat they have no holy spirit when they write the NT ever crossed your mind ? Do people having holy spirit on them have a white auro or a circle above their head ? THey just say "I have holy spirit with me" and u believe they have holy spirit on them ? Why god need to add version 2 or version 3 to the bible ? Is it because version 1 is not good enough ?Yes, I have no answer for many things that is why I continue to study the bible and learn from others. Have you studied all the bibles and scriptures? And if your answer is yes, I assuming you are an ex-christian? I dont blindly belief, my belief comes from stuff that I have seen. Cancer patients who the doctors say are dieing being cured of cancer suddenly, that is a miracle. I dont want to talk about my experience but I know there is a higher being looking after me.
U can read for years and yet find nothing. If found all the other scholars will have written it all in their website etc to educate christian about it.
I am not an ex christian. But some of my friends and relatives r catholic or christian and they try to "psycho" me into joining them
All religion have such incidents or miracles happening. Even free thinkers can be proclaim dead by doctor for some time before suddenly wake up gasping for breath. Miracles have a "distribution" tat does not depend on your belief.
Why do u believe in christianity then ? U seems to "just believe" no matter how cruel god is, how error prone the error on the bible, how ridiculous some of the notions sounds and how some stories seemed to be nothing more than fairy tales or myth. U just give me the above idea from your replies. Have u ever hear or consider other religion before ? have u ever consider being a free thinker before ? Why not ? Is your answer going to be "It is because I believe"......... I don't know man.... why become so naive and irrational in tis area....
A hypothetical question.... If tis religion is really "false", wat sort of evidence do u need to convince u about it ? It seems even if a taoist deity came down and perform miracles, u r still going to believe in christianity
In fact u seems to be the one tat will hang tis taoist deity or try to assasinate him much like wat hebrew had done to jesus in the bible -
I am using your same answer on u to show how fantastic of u to ask me to write my world view while u refuse to write yours
It is ridiculous if you spend time surfing website for anti-christian evidence, and yet you don't even know the christian worldview.
Look, you're the one asking the questions and giving the anti christian evidence. You are also the one suggesting a worldview based on santa claus and tooth fairies are as believable as the christian worldview. My answer to them is to evaluate their worldview, and if you want an answer why shouldn't we choose tooth fairies over Jesus, it is common courtesy you introduce us the santa claus and tooth fairies worldview. But obviously you never do that. Moreover, the christians here have, in their replies, discuss about their worldview. Hence I don't see why I have to do it and invite more rebuke from you.
Oh ya, in case you're still dumb and haven't turn clever, my worldview is not necessarily the christian worldview. As such my personal conviction is unimportant as far as this whole topic is concerned.
I have already said about 2 times tat it is silly to think deeper tat u r being in a matrix or something where u can never know the result and where it is unlikely to happen
So it is by faith that you believe what you see is the truth.What rubbish. Isn't faith irrational?
THEREFORE we should treat the things we can see, proved and sense as the TRUTH.
To people hallucinating, what they see is the truth, but we think otherwise. You agree? But what if everybody is hallucinating? How you know you're not hallucinating?
Lest you give me the crap majority wins, let me extend the question further. Remember the story of the emperor's new clothes? What if people around you describe the world differently? Do you believe this majority?
U just believe in something because it promises u some benefits.
Not too sure. If G-d decides to test a christian like Job, heehee ...
There are many christians who believe 'cos of the prosperity and health gospel, oh well ...
And don't come and tell me there is no benefit u can reap from being a christians since only christians get to be saved
What benefit? Christians have to endure a lifetime of mockery from people like stupidissmart. Live 100 years ridiculed for 100 years. Haiz.
They should probably do tat to u first since u r suggesting tat they r violent and unreasonable from this reply
Excuse me, you're the one who insulted the Prophet in the first place, by saying he is the 2.3m? Lu Bu and stuff. I think it is justified they hantum and jihad you.
If u want to do tat, it is okie. So go out and live your life as normal people without going to church or pray or tilte or buy HYS cd then before u die, u start beliving in God "to play safe". Tat is the only criterion to go to heaven isn't it
And you also say there are rules to follow in order to accept the free gift? Well, here I am, giving this rather warped counter-example to proof you wrong. Heh. -
It is ridiculous if you spend time surfing website for anti-christian evidence, and yet you don't even know the christian worldview.
Wat if I say I don't. Why don't u tell me about it ? Wat is it so hard for u to tell me about wat these world views r ? U want my world view, I can easily pass it to say my world view is the world view of science. U wanna know about it then go and search for it yourself.Look, you're the one asking the questions and giving the anti christian evidence. You are also the one suggesting a worldview based on santa claus and tooth fairies are as believable as the christian worldview. My answer to them is to evaluate their worldview, and if you want an answer why shouldn't we choose tooth fairies over Jesus, it is common courtesy you introduce us the santa claus and tooth fairies worldview. But obviously you never do that. Moreover, the christians here have, in their replies, discuss about their worldview. Hence I don't see why I have to do it and invite more rebuke from you.
For your info, I am suggesting FAITH is irrational. It is the same as kids believing in tooth fairies and santa claus. These 2 groups do not have strong evidence to believe in them but they just believe in it anyway. Why do I have to give out "world view" or "window view" to say tat ? I am only talking the the issue of BLIND FAITH, and tat is it ! I am not comparing BETWEEN religion, I am talking about the notion of using FAITH as a shield or answer to anything which cannot be answered in your religion.Oh ya, in case you're still dumb and haven't turn clever, my worldview is not necessarily the christian worldview. As such my personal conviction is unimportant as far as this whole topic is concerned.
In case u have the problem of losing your memory the day after, u have been suggesting your world view is the same as Christian world view for the past... I don't know tens or twenty replies. Now u say your world view is not the christian one ? Wat is your world view then ? Why ask me for my world view ? So tat u can attack on it ? Why not give us your world view ? Because u r scared I will tear it all down and humilate u ? If u don't give me any, I am not going to give u any either no matter how u taunt.
Yah, BTW my world view is not the same as science as written in my first para. I am following exactly wat u r doing now.So it is by faith that you believe what you see is the truth.What rubbish. Isn't faith irrational?
Sorry man, my stand has always been BLIND FAITH is irrational.To people hallucinating, what they see is the truth, but we think otherwise. You agree? But what if everybody is hallucinating? How you know you're not hallucinating?
Did I tell u to believe hallucinating people ? I am asking u to believe scientists and science. R they hallucinating ? R u hallucinating tat scientists r hallucinated?Lest you give me the crap majority wins, let me extend the question further. Remember the story of the emperor's new clothes? What if people around you describe the world differently? Do you believe this majority?
Have I said anything about "majority win" ? Wat do u mean by majority win ? U want to talk about emperor new clothes ? U know wat is the difference between the emperor and the kid tat said out he is naked ? The emperor has "blind faith" tat the tailor is correct. He never check it out, question or confirm himself. The kid believe things just by the simple notion of "seeing is believing". He is the only wise one tat do not employs blind faith and is the one tat see the truth.
Twisted your analogy again ? forget wat is my old analogy ? Lazy to scroll up ? Too bad ! Neh~ neh neh neh neh !What benefit? Christians have to endure a lifetime of mockery from people like stupidissmart. Live 100 years ridiculed for 100 years. Haiz.
How about going to heaven after death ? Someone "guiding" u when u r "lost". All good things tat happened to u r from "god" while all the bad things tat happened is due to yourself, nature or a test ? How about enjoying "miracles" such as cure for cancer etc ?Excuse me, you're the one who insulted the Prophet in the first place, by saying he is the 2.3m? Lu Bu and stuff. I think it is justified they hantum and jihad you.
I only doubt why is he "illiterate". As a free thinker, true muslim will show the patient of explaining it and can understand my disbelief since it defies logic. On the other hand, u practise discrimination on all muslim by writing tis statement.Skully the muslims hantum you tomorrow ... or initiate a jihad against you
From tis statement, u r trying to say muslims r extremists and initiate jihad for little reasons and causes. I don't know man... discrimination and stereotyping isn't wat a normal person should do in tis age. Please note tat the mainstream moderate muslim r not terrorists who "hantum" or "jihad" a person, even if they piss him off. I don't know wat is your intention to bring muslim into the line of fire....
I think it is justified they hantum and jihad you.And you also say there are rules to follow in order to accept the free gift? Well, here I am, giving this rather warped counter-example to proof you wrong. Heh.
Believe in the religion is the rule to follow
If u r a buddhist, then u had to pay a price for the last minute conversion. For christians who do nothing "christian" (going to church, tilte, pray, never did anything remotely related to christainity) u do not have a price to pay. "Free" only applies to this group of people and not all. -
U want my world view, I can easily pass it to say my world view is the world view of science. U wanna know about it then go and search for it yourself.
There's no need to. I'm acquainted with such stuff. Naturalism mah .. *snickers*
For your info, I am suggesting FAITH is irrational.
Doesn't seem to click with your "Sorry man, my stand has always been BLIND FAITH is irrational." below.
Hmm .. someone suggesting the christian faith is irrational ... hmmm .. I haven't unleash the weapon yet ... negative apologetics to the rescue!
I don't know tens or twenty replies. Now u say your world view is not the christian one ? Wat is your world view then ?
I'm sure I didn't. In fact, I did clarify later, for the sake of argument, just assume my worldview is the christian one. Well, the debator's stand during a competition need not agree with her personal conviction right? Same for me here.
Sorry man, my stand has always been BLIND FAITH is irrational.
It is blind what. Since you're evaluating whether what you see, hear, feel, touch, smell is true, obviously you can only evaluate them "blindly".
How about enjoying "miracles" such as cure for cancer etc ?
Only for believers of the prosperity and health gospel.
The early christians certainly did not enjoy such earthly benefits. They were constantly in danger of being persecuted and some even martyred themselves.
I only doubt why is he "illiterate".
You did insult the Prophet, comparing him with the absurd Lu Bu.
As a free thinker, true muslim will show the patient of explaining it and can understand my disbelief since it defies logic.
Precisely, since you're still in disbelief, why do you have to insult the Prophet? As if you're so sure he was as mythological as a 2.3m Lu Bu.
From tis statement, u r trying to say muslims r extremists and initiate jihad for little reasons and causes.
Little reasons and causes? Hello, you just insulted Islam's no. one Holy Prophet. In case you have a bad memory, let me quote your reply:Actually I am illiterate too... it is the Angel Whoqqozkkkyw tat guides me to type out the keys for these replies
Look at how easily you trash their belief into the bin. Need I say more?
I do not believe in the Quran either. The prophet tell u he is illiterate is the same as I telling u I am illiterate after writing so many replies. Illiterate ? Illiterate in chinese or japanese bah. DO u know the prophet ? Maybe he is another 2.3 m Lu Bu carrying a 50kg weopon with one hand.
Believe in the religion is the rule to follow
That's not a rule. It is a logical necessity. It is the same for any other religion regardless of whether they come out with such "rule".
"Free" only applies to this group of people and not all.
Heh ... so my counter-example work lah.
If you've not realized, the first person to enter paradise with Jesus belonged to this group. -
hey hey hey !!! can the moderator close tis thread. Or the moderator would encourage more flaming den putting out the fire.
moderator do ur job now!!!!! -
moderators are aware that closing this thread will lead to opening of a new thread....they cannot do anything if ppl continue want to bicker. we have laid now the christian's perspective liao...the rest is up to them.
