did he die for me or not?
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You want to discuss the Koran?Originally posted by Nelstar:No insults, but don't u see the light of words being written by Man?
The key is it is written by Man.
The Prophet wrote that while he was an illiterate person, with dictation by Angel Gabriel.
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i can even attack taoism....Originally posted by Icemoon:You want to discuss the Koran?
The Prophet wrote that while he was an illiterate person, with dictation by Angel Gabriel. 
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Taoism? It cannot even stand on its own.
However, I'm interested to know whether you can attack naturalism and post-modernism. -
everything is full of loopholes.Originally posted by Icemoon:Taoism? It cannot even stand on its own.
However, I'm interested to know whether you can attack naturalism and post-modernism.
Science is full of bullshit where the scientist estimated too much. It has toooo many ridiculous estimation. -
everything is full of loopholes.
Gotcha!
So what is your loophole? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Opinions are always opinions. What is true for one may be unfounded in another's heart.
[b]everything is full of loopholes.
Gotcha!
So what is your loophole?
[/b]
Time to learn to let go?
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*sniffs the gunpowder*
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sins required punishment to fufil all righteousness. u kill a person and the court sentence death to u. can the judge(ur dad) says..just because u r his son u need not die?Originally posted by stupidissmart:That is a brillant anlogy !
so in Christ...forgiveness of sins and justice r both fully met. -
sins required punishment to fufil all righteousness. u kill a person and the court sentence death to u. can the judge(ur dad) says..just because u r his son u need not die?
What sins has Jesus performed to warrant a death penalty according to bible ? If you are the murderer and you are sentenced to death, can you ask a stranger to die in your place ?
so in Christ...forgiveness of sins and justice r both fully met.
Forgiveness ? Justice ? What have been met ?!?!
BTW, men are created to sin. Jesus had said before "Let the one without sin cast the first stone". Does anyone in the world survive without performing any sin ? SInce we are all born to be sinners, why do we need to be "punished" ? -
You do not justify a punishment for A, B, C on D when D did not commit the crime.Originally posted by NeonTetra:sins required punishment to fufil all righteousness. u kill a person and the court sentence death to u. can the judge(ur dad) says..just because u r his son u need not die?
so in Christ...forgiveness of sins and justice r both fully met.
If he is the answer to our crimes, then who pardons the fallen angel? If there can be a sin that cannot be washed by he who died for us, then what good will there be to give one away to do nothing. -
IMO, people that believe in Jesus who had die on the cross to clean our sins just need a scapegoat. They need someone to clean up all the sh!t they had made around in the world. Too bad they did not realise as Men, they are born to sh!t... Let those who do not sh!t cast the first stone........................
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yes..indeed by right the punishment shld be laid on A,B,C because they r the ones. if God is to stick to tt plan ...u r in deep trouble. He loves U and make His Son the atoning sacrifice.Originally posted by Nelstar:You do not justify a punishment for A, B, C on D when D did not commit the crime.
If he is the answer to our crimes, then who pardons the fallen angel? If there can be a sin that cannot be washed by he who died for us, then what good will there be to give one away to do nothing. -
What sins has Jesus performed to warrant a death penalty according to bible ?
He was sinless.
If you are the murderer and you are sentenced to death, can you ask a stranger to die in your place ?
No. Neither do you ask Christ to die in your place. It is a gift, remember?
SInce we are all born to be sinners, why do we need to be "punished" ?
You can think it like that. Or practically speaking, you will also sin in your lifetime. -
If he is the answer to our crimes, then who pardons the fallen angel? If there can be a sin that cannot be washed by he who died for us, then what good will there be to give one away to do nothing.
Why must the fallen angel be pardoned? I mean, I don't think the fallen angel gian3 the salvation from G-d. So, too bad. -
Now, is that an acceptable request in the first place ? Everybody sh!t. Why ask u to do something which it cannot be done ? It is like a general asking his soldier to flap his arms to fly. No matter how obedient the soldier is, he cannot do it ! Should he be punished for doing something which he cannot performed ? Is that a reasonable request in the first place ?
He loves U and make His Son the atoning sacrifice
Why sacrifice his own son ? Wat is the logic ? It is like someone owe me money and to clear the debt, I kill my own son !??! Doesn't tat sounds so absurb ??
Maybe next time a general should say to all his soldiers "All of u do not breath ! If u breath I will kill u !" After tat he shot his son dead and say "He dies for u all, now u all can breath"
Wat do u think ?
1. IMO the general's request for not breathing is ABSURB. Can anyone not breath ? Can men not sin ? Why punish men for doing something tat is not achievable in the first place ?
2. Second he is cruel and kill his son for NOTHING. He could have just retract his order in the first place. Why can't God just forgive people sin directly instead of killing his own favourite son before forgiving ? I am asking why do God want to do this ????
3. Third he made himself and his son seems so noble though he had done something ridiculously absurb through 1 and 2. Same as Jesus.
I don't see your link with the question I ask other than "No". A gift by killing himself ? Sounds to me like satanism or something... Maybe next time u open a door and your best friend commit suicide in front of u as a gift to u.
If you are the murderer and you are sentenced to death, can you ask a stranger to die in your place ?
No. Neither do you ask Christ to die in your place. It is a gift, rememberSInce we are all born to be sinners, why do we need to be "punished" ?
Oh cool... wat is your link again ?!?!
You can think it like that. Or practically speaking, you will also sin in your lifetime. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
i dont think he gian...
[b]If he is the answer to our crimes, then who pardons the fallen angel? If there can be a sin that cannot be washed by he who died for us, then what good will there be to give one away to do nothing.
Why must the fallen angel be pardoned? I mean, I don't think the fallen angel gian3 the salvation from G-d. So, too bad.
[/b]
but saying he's the ultimate evil is like saying the toilet stinks when the sh!t belongs to you.
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So, you are only saying his death is not perfect. if it is perfect, then don't even preach... he died, all saved, end of story. Nobody even knew, nobody even cared, everybody saved. already settled.Originally posted by the Bear:well, it is His business.. of being God.. and helping His people
but if people don't want to be helped, even God can't save them for God gave them free will... even the free will to reject Him.. -
but saying he's the ultimate evil is like saying the toilet stinks when the sh!t belongs to you.
You are right. Christians should not use the devil as an excuse when they sin.
But G-d has scores to settle with the devil. I mean, if you lead other angels into rebellion, this is a death sentence right? -
Can men not sin ? Why punish men for doing something tat is not achievable in the first place ?
How about we twist the topic a bit? Let's talk about karma. Do you think karma is justified, using your argument above?
Why can't God just forgive people sin directly instead of killing his own favourite son before forgiving ? I am asking why do God want to do this ????
Don't give us the red herring lah. Clearly, you just don't want to acknowledge the overflowing love of G-d. You can't believe why G-d will sacrifice his son over people like us. So you focus on His cruelty instead.
Oh cool... wat is your link again ?!?!
You have no excuse. Even if you're NOT born a sinner, you still will sin in your life. This is the link. -
Your idea of perfect is that it is automatic and forceful. Your idea of perfect is like to do something and applies to it to ppl even when ppl dun accept. It is like GST....ppl dun want and yet u include in the price. That is your understanding of perfection? God do not force people into something...thats His character since the beginning....He will always provide a way out and whether the ppl choose Him its their call....however that does not mean judgement will not arrive after that.Originally posted by jennyxxxxx001:So, you are only saying his death is not perfect. if it is perfect, then don't even preach... he died, all saved, end of story. Nobody even knew, nobody even cared, everybody saved. already settled.
Perfect means complete and without error and needs no further amendments to the work previously done. Perfect score...full score...need we to take a second test to get better marks? No..its perfect 10/10.
Jesus died and rose again for the salvation of mankind. In one person, who is both fully God and fully Man sin is punished, justice met and love of God poured out. Punish sin..there u have...He was punished on our behalf because the actual punishment is too harsh for us to bear. Justice met...there you see, sins have to be punished no matter what....nothing as to strike it off because God is just and holy. Love of God...yes because Jesus substitute is in the punishment..the penalty which we deserves is being inflicted upon Him on the cross.
After that, no human need to do anything or is able to do any things such as good works etc to earn salvation. It cannot be done. His work is perfect and all we need to do is to accept Him and recieve that salvation in which He already provided. If one is so against Him...how can he accept that gift.
When i say i hate durian..i wont eat it. -
to each his own..~
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ya lah, but if it were glorified stories by the disciples.. then they would have died for a story they made up mah..Originally posted by Nelstar:It's like telling me that Lu Bu is 2.3m tall.
There's nothing to really measure..
Words and stories written by Man can be exaggerated. -
about the durian... it is not I hate durian I won't eat it.Originally posted by NeonTetra:When i say i hate durian..i wont eat it.
It is, the durian already exists. I don't need to invent or create durians anymore, I don't need to do anything anymore. it is done, it is finish.
if you say it is perfect and completed and done deal, then it is done.
I don't need to know. i don't want to know. It is perfect, it is done, please don't bother me anymore....
if i don't even know he died for me, just like i am sure that there are many people who don't, it does not matter, it is finish! did you see The passion? it is finish.... end of story.... so why this, yes, but.... ?
or like life. it is. i have life, so i am writing this. do i need to accept that i have life? no. i have life, end of story, full stop, finish. -
Christ did die for you.
Imagine the existence of two masters, ABC and XYZ. We were slaves to ABC. XYZ paid for your freedom (fully). But if we choose to continue serving ABC, then we are still not free from ABC. -
How about we twist the topic a bit? Let's talk about karma. Do you think karma is justified, using your argument above?
Wat is karma ? Why don't u elaborateDon't give us the red herring lah. Clearly, you just don't want to acknowledge the overflowing love of G-d. You can't believe why G-d will sacrifice his son over people like us. So you focus on His cruelty instead.
Overflowing love ?!?! What is your examples of overflowing love ? Death, pain, war, dieseases and so on and so on... Jesus says our sins were cleansed. Wat is the difference in our lives before and after his death ? If God really forgive us our sins, then he should have forgiven wat Adam and Eve had done and NOT give us death, pain, pregnancy, work etc. Why is everything very much the same before and after his death ? He says our sins were clensed, how do u know ? Nothing had changed isn't it ?
What are his objectives when he made us in the first place ? To build up something that resembles himself ! He is building us the same reasons we build dolls ! U call tat love ? U don't even understand him in the first place !You have no excuse. Even if you're NOT born a sinner, you still will sin in your life. This is the link.
Tat is right. It is the same as sh!ting and breathing. To be alive is to sin. more than 10 billion people have lived in this world and none of them do not sin. So why punish people just because they sin ? He might as well just met out his punishments in the first place !You can't believe why G-d will sacrifice his son over people like us
No, I can't believe why he need to sacrifice his son to forgive us when he he just need to forgive us. SACRIFICE is not needed in the first place ! It is he who insisted tat someone need to be sacrificed ! He just want him to die in pain !