did he die for me or not?
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if he died for me, whether i believe or not, he died for me right? puzzled.
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Yes He did, with or without your believing in Him. He died for all, He took all our sins upon Himself.
Now if you are wondering, why should I believe to get the so called salvation since He already died for me?
You see, God is a gentleman. He said in Rev 3:20, "Here I am standing at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to dine with him and he with me."
He gave and respect our freewill. He doesnt want to barge into our lives just like that. He wants us to accept Him when we truly understand the magnitude of His love and sufferings for us.
Why should He want to come in? God is a Father. All fathers desire a relationship with their children. Now imagine if I were to not acknowledge my father on earth and wants to continue to stay in his house and a share of the inheritance, isnt that a bit unfair? Likewise, isnt is fair that after all God has done, He only desires that we call Him, ABBA Father and acknowledge Him as such. All God wants from us is a realization of His love and come back to Him as His children.
Knowing about God is different about Knowing God. Knowing about Lee Kuan Yew doesnt make you his son/daughter and thus, you wun stay in his house nor share in his inheritance. Likewise for God. -
I owe A money, B paid for me, I still owe A money?
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Hahaha...alright, I would not even answer this example because we cant simplify everythin in this world.Originally posted by jennyxxxxx001:I owe A money, B paid for me, I still owe A money?
If in a court, you admit you committed a crime to the judge, then your fren came and say he will go to jail for you, do you think the judge will allow it? Nope. You still ARE a criminal.
You know the story of the 3 blind men all their lives who came upon an elephant for the first time? The 1st felt legs and decided that an elephant is short. The 2nd felt the tusk and decided the elephant is hard and sharp. The 3rd felt the tail and thought the elephant is just like a snake he felt some time ago. We all know they are wrong, but to them they think they are right because they only touch on one part of the bigger picture.
The point is that we can come up with thousands of examples which only tries to disprove a certain element of a bigger picture. It is unfair to do that.
You see, my fren, maybe you are new here, maybe you are not. But the fact is I stand on this
IF, you BELIEVE in what GOD has done, then all the questions you are asking is valid. BUT, if you DO NOT believe at all, why should all these matter to you? So DO YOU BELIEVE or NOT? If you do believe but just found it difficult at times, then I would gladly try to answer you. If you DO NOT believe and are asking these questions, I would say 'fren, go. Because you already got the answer.
Anyway, you owe A money and B paid for you. yes you dun owe A any more money but you owe B now. So now if A is God and you owe God and B is Jesus who came down to pay your debts and Jesus is asking "Acknowledge me as your saviour". He is asking only for that, an acknowledgement and belief that He is your saviour. Isnt it fair for you to accept his request of B, since B paid your debts? I am sure you know you should be grateful to B. -
he die for me so i owe him, just like your example and so his death not unconditional? so he did not die for me unless i believe?
make up your mind, he died for me or not. -
*scratches head*
Let me ask you this. If a tree fell in a forest, but you never saw or heard, did it fall? -
hao hao wan ah... i oso want to ask.
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If God created Earth and God is omnipresent.
Why can't Earth be omnipresent?
If God created Earth, did something create God?
merry-go-round, merry-go-round, go a round round round.
If every word in the Bible is the word of God, then why is it written by hand of Man?
If God made Sunday our rest day, and all men who worked on this day are sinners, who will take care of the sick and needy on sunday?
merry-go-round merry-go-round, I defended so many Christians.. now it's time to ask some questions. -
most of the above are quite standard questions asked time and again by many pple already, can check out the following site christan answers.
http://www.christiananswers.net/
can discuss further if it cannot satisfy you. -
If God created Earth and God is omnipresent.
Why can't Earth be omnipresent?
How do you know Earth can't be omnipresent? Maybe it can, but it just dun want?
If God created Earth, did something create God?
No. You already agreed to the antecedent, hence you must also agree that God, as the definition entails , is uncaused.
If every word in the Bible is the word of God, then why is it written by hand of Man?
You just said they are the word of God, so why must they be written by Him and not the hand of Man?
If God made Sunday our rest day, and all men who worked on this day are sinners, who will take care of the sick and needy on sunday?
Strawman. -
today i walk pass church and somebody says: he died for you.
ok... thank you .... then he say.... no... got some more...
so i say, he die for me or not die for me? it is very simple. yes or no.
yes, end of story, i go to heaven, i muslim or hindu nevermind, he die for me i go to heaven...
yes, but..... means what? so now i got time, i ask here. -
Salvation is provided fully by Christ on the cross. It is a free gift and not to be earned. It just like i give u a present wrapped up. If i pass to you and u refuse to accept and open up the gift. U can never receive wat i have bought for u. I have given u the gift, i paid money for it and its for u...but i didnt get it in the end.
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technically speaking the rest day would be Saturday not sunday since sunday is the 1st day of the week and not the last!Originally posted by Nelstar:If God created Earth and God is omnipresent.
Why can't Earth be omnipresent?
If God created Earth, did something create God?
merry-go-round, merry-go-round, go a round round round.
If every word in the Bible is the word of God, then why is it written by hand of Man?
If God made Sunday our rest day, and all men who worked on this day are sinners, who will take care of the sick and needy on sunday?
merry-go-round merry-go-round, I defended so many Christians.. now it's time to ask some questions. -
ya..u r right...saturday is the sabbath. nothing wrong. just that Christian change the day of worship to Sunday to remember the resurrection of Christ on Sunday.Originally posted by |-|05|:technically speaking the rest day would be Saturday not sunday since sunday is the 1st day of the week and not the last! -
hehe was just correcting someoneOriginally posted by NeonTetra:ya..u r right...saturday is the sabbath. nothing wrong. just that Christian change the day of worship to Sunday to remember the resurrection of Christ on Sunday.
well article frm the catholic encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm
on why it's a sunday and not a sat that has been the christan day of worship
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If you say it is already fait accompli then it is like this:Originally posted by NeonTetra:Salvation is provided fully by Christ on the cross. It is a free gift and not to be earned. It just like i give u a present wrapped up. If i pass to you and u refuse to accept and open up the gift. U can never receive wat i have bought for u. I have given u the gift, i paid money for it and its for u...but i didnt get it in the end.
one day i was walking along the road minding my own business, the police catch me for jay walking and bring me to police station.
there is a old poster that says I am wanted, in his police station.
he check with HQ and HQ says, yes, at one time wanted, but settled already.
so, I don't even need to know i was wanted, i don't even need to accept, nothing... settled already. -
Allow me to ask a simple question...
Lets imagine one day Osama is caught by the American and he is sentenced to death. Before he died, he claims that he die to wash away the sins of men so they can go to heaven bla bla bla... So do you believe him ?
So my question is, if the story of Jesus is true, does he die to "wash" our sin or die because he was caught and cannot escape ?
Why will God want to sacrifice his son to wash away our sins, when he can just wash away our sins if he want to ? He is omnipotent isn't it ? Why resort to sacrificing, especially by slowly torturing and killing his son ? Does god get anything from it ? Is he a sadist that deprive happiness from watching his son being tortured ? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
who cares about washing the sins... he die his bizness..
Allow me to ask a simple question...
Lets imagine one day Osama is caught by the American and he is sentenced to death. Before he died, he claims that he die to wash away the sins of men so they can go to heaven bla bla bla... So do you believe him ?
So my question is, [b]if the story of Jesus is true, does he die to "wash" our sin or die because he was caught and cannot escape ?
Why will God want to sacrifice his son to wash away our sins, when he can just wash away our sins if he want to ? He is omnipotent isn't it ? Why resort to sacrificing, especially by slowly torturing and killing his son ? Does god get anything from it ? Is he a sadist that deprive happiness from watching his son being tortured ? [/b]
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well, it is His business.. of being God.. and helping His people
but if people don't want to be helped, even God can't save them for God gave them free will... even the free will to reject Him.. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
If one were to study the scripture, he will discover that Jesus predicted His death and resurrection before He is even arrested. He has every means to be set free and escape punishment by the Roman soldiers..but one will again discover He Himself walked into the situation of being killed. Yes...He sabo Himself...and was crucified though He has done nothing wrong.
Allow me to ask a simple question...
Lets imagine one day Osama is caught by the American and he is sentenced to death. Before he died, he claims that he die to wash away the sins of men so they can go to heaven bla bla bla... So do you believe him ?
So my question is, [b]if the story of Jesus is true, does he die to "wash" our sin or die because he was caught and cannot escape ?
Why will God want to sacrifice his son to wash away our sins, when he can just wash away our sins if he want to ? He is omnipotent isn't it ? Why resort to sacrificing, especially by slowly torturing and killing his son ? Does god get anything from it ? Is he a sadist that deprive happiness from watching his son being tortured ? [/b] -
The scripture is written by his disciples... so we can guess, they might have glorified him through lies.Originally posted by NeonTetra:If one were to study the scripture, he will discover that Jesus predicted His death and resurrection before He is even arrested. He has every means to be set free and escape punishment by the Roman soldiers..but one will again discover He Himself walked into the situation of being killed. Yes...He sabo Himself...and was crucified though He has done nothing wrong.
*yawns* -
Nope..Old Testament propehts do not know Him coz they lived before Jesus came to earth. One of the New Testament writers, Paul is an extreme Church persecutor and His conversion was the result of an encounter with the Risen Christ and became the main contributor on the New Testament epistles.Originally posted by Nelstar:The scripture is written by his disciples... so we can guess, they might have glorified him through lies.
*yawns*
His disciples fled when He was arrested, they are terrified when He was caught and leave Him. But the events following His resurrection changed their view. -
The part about Jesus Christ comes from the New Testaments and the disciples of Christ.Originally posted by NeonTetra:Nope..Old Testament propehts do not know Him coz they lived before Jesus came to earth. One of the New Testament writers, Paul is an extreme Church persecutor and His conversion was the result of an encounter with the Risen Christ and became the main contributor on the New Testament epistles.
His disciples fled when He was arrested, they are terrified when He was caught and leave Him. But the events following His resurrection changed their view.
They might have glorified him..
It's like telling me the fart smells nice because someone said so.
No insults, but don't u see the light of words being written by Man?
when men write true stories, they tend to exaggerate to attract attention.
Well whatever. I'm lazy of debating. I've been in a Catholic class before and three students, Me and my other two friends managed to put down most of the arguments forwarded by my tutors and the other students.
The key is it is written by Man. -
It's like telling me that Lu Bu is 2.3m tall.
There's nothing to really measure..
Words and stories written by Man can be exaggerated. -
If one were to study the scripture, he will discover that Jesus predicted His death and resurrection before He is even arrested. He has every means to be set free and escape punishment by the Roman soldiers..but one will again discover He Himself walked into the situation of being killed. Yes...He sabo Himself...and was crucified though He has done nothing wrong.
I am asking for the meaning for his death. What purpose does it serves ? Why do God have to kill him just to forgive us when he can just directly forgive us ? Why someone need to sacrifice, much like the pagan Gods who require virgins ?It's like telling me that Lu Bu is 2.3m tall.
That is a brillant anlogy !