Religion religion religion .. has it become an obession.?
-
kua ka lim peh tao gong gong.....
-
If there is really such miracles happening, then there wouldn't be dead christians isn't it ?
Hahahah ... this has got to be the most childish logic coming from an unbeliever. How old is he huh?
Well, people r arguing tat all things need to be created. However God cannot be created since it is "omnipotent". So in short u guys admitted tat not all things in life has to be created by someone.
What is your set of "things"? Matter?
If people die and tat is the end, it is going to happen to u whether u believe in it or not.
What's your point? You sound as if you know, for certain, the afterlife.
Where is your "proof", I may ask?
If evolution is true and we r from monkeys, it proves tat God never meant to create Man in the first place.
This is crap reasoning, considering some Christians believe in theistic evolution.
If science proves the Big Bang theory (actually it is proved), tat just means God never created the universe in the first place.
Another crap reasoning. The Big Bang theory does not account for what happened before the, er Big Bang, whether or not there is a deity behind the scene.
In short, the theory just explains the mechanism. Theists can jolly well claim a deity causes the Big Bang, and you cannot refute that based soley on the theory.
Only one side can be true.
This is the fallacy of false dichotomy -
Hi again,
i would like to address icemoon first. I don't know. hope that satisfy you. haehae
Next, be it Christianity or Science, through scientific proof and testing. Both seems flimsy. stupidissmart, some of your questions has not been answered, but likewise, you have not answered many questions yourself. And yet you say yours is definately correct. Why? Even none of my professers dare say so. Aren't you a little too sure of yourself?
Next point, how is going to church wasting time as compared to going clubbing? I have visited churches before and they seem to be real nice places. The people there are smiling and they are happy. If people can take joy in betting, clubbing or sports, who are you to say that people cannot take joy in going to church? Many of my friends just can't wait for the weekend to come to attend church. They genuienely love it!
You mentioned some Christians that imposed their rules on people, how different then are you from them? From what I can see, you are not the most " open" person in this forum as you are always insisting that yours "IS" the way. I would implore you to read up more on the latest scientific findings. If you haven't realised your references are dated around 1994. During my JC days, i was taught by my tutors the many flaws in evolution too. Although i can't remember why, as i didn't quite bother.
Can't you be more objective like Malboro or icemoon? They listen and debate on relevant points. Taking MAlboro as an example, he admitted that he didn't know enough, and is rather "open" to opinions. One person that has me confused is icemoon. Icemoon, you seem to be at times Christian yet at times against it? Are you Christian? Stupidissmart, you are soo adament that your way is correct that you lose sight on how 1 sided your arguement is sometimes.
I know of 3 cases of free thinkers being converted because of miracle healings. In these cases their whole families converted and was baptised. But then again, given your previous posts, you probably would not take my word for it.
So, stupidissmart, when life ends, what happens? Share your view with me. -
hey icemoon,
are you from a debating society? I am quite impressed with your arguement style.
cheers -
i believe in life created and that created life is dynamic to adapt to it's surrounding.
if all life evolved from a single cell, how did emotions come about? how did morals come about? -
Hahahah ... this has got to be the most childish logic coming from an unbeliever. How old is he huh?
Heh... my question is why does miracles happened to just some selected people ? In fact they do not have to be a believer to have a miracle happening to them. If miracles r solely the privilideges of christians, then why only some of them have miracles while othes do not ? R u really sure those people tat have it r better believers ?What's your point? You sound as if you know, for certain, the afterlife.
I have never say I am certain for wat happened after life. I am stating tat if the truth is this way, then no matter wat u believes in is pointless. So the important thing is to knwo the truth.
Where is your "proof", I may ask?In short, the theory just explains the mechanism. Theists can jolly well claim a deity causes the Big Bang, and you cannot refute that based soley on the theory.
Well, the bible do say things about the human heart is the center of thinking. Of course u may give an excuse tat it is still relevant even though it is blatantly off by using "another" interpretation. Even the interpretation of certain famous priest believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I do believe tat the more science knows, the more bible contradictions r found and the less believable it becomes.Next, be it Christianity or Science, through scientific proof and testing. Both seems flimsy. stupidissmart, some of your questions has not been answered, but likewise, you have not answered many questions yourself. And yet you say yours is definately correct. Why? Even none of my professers dare say so. Aren't you a little too sure of yourself?
Why does it seems flimsy to u ?
Wat questions have I failed to answer ?
Actually I got to admit I am not sure of certain things. However there r just too many reasons for me not to believe in christainity. Wat will be your reason for believing in them from a rational point of view ?
For church, it is compulsory. U like it or don't like it, u have to go. There may be smiling people there or watever but it is not your time where u can manipulate with it.
Next point, how is going to church wasting time as compared to going clubbing? I have visited churches before and they seem to be real nice places. The people there are smiling and they are happy. If people can take joy in betting, clubbing or sports, who are you to say that people cannot take joy in going to church? Many of my friends just can't wait for the weekend to come to attend church. They genuienely love it!
If u do not go for church, the time is yours. U can spend it on "clubbing, ktv, betting" etc or spend it on families, childrens, study for exam etc. It is your choice.
Lets put it this way, if your school or company forces all the people to go to a social outing on every sunday, whether u like it or not, will u be happy ?You mentioned some Christians that imposed their rules on people, how different then are you from them? From what I can see, you are not the most " open" person in this forum as you are always insisting that yours "IS" the way. I would implore you to read up more on the latest scientific findings. If you haven't realised your references are dated around 1994. During my JC days, i was taught by my tutors the many flaws in evolution too. Although i can't remember why, as i didn't quite bother.
Do u know for JC studies, the things u had read r more than 10 years old.
Impose my rules ? Wat rules have I impose ? All I did is to ask peopel to seek the truth, to question your religion. For them they do something physical, such as a group of people surround u and "pursuad" u not to dye your hair or "ridicule" u for doing tat. The "killer" used this logic and hit his girlfriend and threathened to kill her as he is still innocent and can go to heaven. I know of a person who write a para on every day on his IA report about the "marvelous" God and heard from newspaper about catholic NOT to use contraceptives, which will result in many babies tat were not planned.
To me they were already bit obssesed as wat the title of this thread is about.
These were physical. Wat I can only do is write here. It is up to individual to believe it or not. If they do not like it, they can stop reading it.Can't you be more objective like Malboro or icemoon? They listen and debate on relevant points. Taking MAlboro as an example, he admitted that he didn't know enough, and is rather "open" to opinions. One person that has me confused is icemoon. Icemoon, you seem to be at times Christian yet at times against it? Are you Christian? Stupidissmart, you are soo adament that your way is correct that you lose sight on how 1 sided your arguement is sometimes
R u being objective yourself ? Is the other people here objective or stick to their stand ?
For icemoon, I believe is in a religion having some "connection" with christainity yet he is not a christian or catholic. My guess is he is a muslim.I know of 3 cases of free thinkers being converted because of miracle healings. In these cases their whole families converted and was baptised. But then again, given your previous posts, you probably would not take my word for it
I heard of a family believing in Taoist because of miracle predictions. U r right, I do not take miracles argument seriously as there r too many religious out there with a long list of examples of miracles.So, stupidissmart, when life ends, what happens? Share your view with me
My view is simple, yet to other people unacceptable.
When people die they die. No afterlife, no heaven nor hell. Their brains die and they do not have any thoughts and became a dead body. Burn or buried doesn't really matter as it is just a body. The end, no afterlife and no reincarnation. Tat to me is the most believable truth. -
Heh... my question is why does miracles happened to just some selected people ? In fact they do not have to be a believer to have a miracle happening to them. If miracles r solely the privilideges of christians, then why only some of them have miracles while othes do not ? R u really sure those people tat have it r better believers ?
in christian context, it's called grace.Well, the bible do say things about the human heart is the center of thinking. Of course u may give an excuse tat it is still relevant even though it is blatantly off by using "another" interpretation. Even the interpretation of certain famous priest believe that the earth revolves around the sun. I do believe tat the more science knows, the more bible contradictions r found and the less believable it becomes.
you must know the bible is written when the brain is not discovered by science yet. any mention of it would have confused everyone.For church, it is compulsory. U like it or don't like it, u have to go. There may be smiling people there or watever but it is not your time where u can manipulate with it.
practical reason of church-going.. to know fellow believers. so in times of need, we can have fellow believers to ask for help..
If u do not go for church, the time is yours. U can spend it on "clubbing, ktv, betting" etc or spend it on families, childrens, study for exam etc. It is your choice.
Lets put it this way, if your school or company forces all the people to go to a social outing on every sunday, whether u like it or not, will u be happy ?
if a believer enjoys going church, let him/her go lor.. if one doesn't enjoy, let him/her not go lor\When people die they die. No afterlife, no heaven nor hell. Their brains die and they do not have any thoughts and became a dead body. Burn or buried doesn't really matter as it is just a body. The end, no afterlife and no reincarnation. Tat to me is the most believable truth.
ok, since you don't believe in afterlife. so you are saying life is just like that.. live and die.. then why go on living? -
if all life evolved from a single cell, how did emotions come about? how did morals come about
Emotions is always there. I had explain why wrath need to exists before. When there is pain, all living things will feel sad too. Why is there pain ? it is like sensors around the body which tell u where is wrong. It also encourage animals not to do anything tat causes them pain, so make them better survivors. Happiness occurs is when they found food. As such, animals will keep finding food to survive. When u slowly kill a pig (in some countryside they just take a knife and keep cutting them to kill them) they will fear u and try to run around the fence crying and oinking. Again this is there to make them better survivors. If they have no fear, they do not run after they r hurt. Tat make them worse survivors.
Morals r there because we lived in a group.
Wolves have their own code of group ethics. When they hunt and found food, they will bring the food over to the den when everyone shares it. They could have ate the food themselves, but they share it because they knwo the importance of living in a group. When a deer in a group spots a predator, they will sound an alarm to warn others to flee too. Why warn others ? If that deer didn't the others will stay there and get eaten by the predator which ensures his safe escape. More complex beings will have more complex moral code. This is there because we r living in a group and have to live in a manner which is not going to go badly in the group.
Come to this point, why is there emotions according to bible ? Why are there morals ? -
thanks for your input.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Come to this point, why is there emotions according to bible ? Why are there morals ?
in the bible, we are created in God's image. Man was created in mind, body, soul and spirit.
morals, because like you mentioned.. God is good, so in a sense, He created evil too. but i'm no theologian, so i can't elaborate it eloquently enough. maybe you can read stuff my C S Lewis. -
A reminder: the topic is "Religion, religion, religion... has it become an obsession?". Also bear in mind that this forum is called "Eternal Hope", which by implication, is frequented by mainly Christians. While it would be wrong to prevent non-Christians to enter, they should at least enter with the spirit of peace. It is not wrong to attempt to debate theology, but keep it respectful.
We should also make the assumption that those who are defend the faith are not theological scholars so therefore it is entirely possible that the arguments may be less than convincing.
Anyone wishing to continue berating Christians and God should do it outside this forum. It is liken to one entering your neighbour's and demand the neighbour to conform to one's standard. -
We should also make the assumption that those who are defend the faith are not theological scholars so therefore it is entirely possible that the arguments may be less than convincing.
Wat makes u think I am a theological scholar ? I am just a nobody with the highest education reaching degree in engineering.
In law, how do u fight a case ? It is based on the lawyers fighting on the defense or prosecuter side. How is law fair since the capability of the lawyers may differ ? They make the assumption tat those who is right will naturally have more evidence on their side, thus have an advantage in fighting of a case.Anyone wishing to continue berating Christians and God should do it outside this forum. It is liken to one entering your neighbour's and demand the neighbour to conform to one's standard
Why not here ? This is the place where I can get the replies I want isn't it ? Isn't it the purpose of many christians to try to convert people into their cause ? If anything, I have the same intentions of trying to save more people too. If u believe in a religion, u want them to be fully aware of the situation isn't it ? U want them to make a decision tat is well thought of and had weigh both sides of the arguments before "placing their bets". Why try to cover the truth ? Why want to let believers hear only one side of the story ? Is it fair to them ?
I am here and u all can try to do try to convert me too. If u manage to pursuade me, won't tat be pursuade more people over to christainity ? -
Yah, from the way you answer questions, i can tell you are neither a science student nor an open minded individual. You close yourself to all alternatives except your own ideals. Your battering is senseless because you keep piling information from your sources and insist that other sources are wrong. Your defense at many points seems so laughable and your logic incoherent. Take some time and read your old posts. At times, its not consistent and quite funny. Even science is not sure of macroevolution, but yet you, who isn't even a scientist, fight for that belief without evaluating other alternatives.
Furthermore, I have only been to chruches a few times and i don't see anybody there that is sulking or that doesn't want to be there. They are happy, don't you see it. I guess you are too bias and insistent on imposing you views on others. If you can spend your time at a karaoke singing songs, why can't you spend your time in church to be with all your family and friends? You just don't see it do you?
Btw, is Icemoon a Muslim? -
just some silly questions.
has science become your religion?
is it an obsession to you? -
I never said you are a theological scholar, and by your arguments I would have never imagine you to be one. Neither can I imagine you to be a graduate by your inability to write and spell coherently.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Wat makes u think I am a theological scholar ? I am just a nobody with the highest education reaching degree in engineering.
Problem is, this is not a court of law, and obviously you do not even have the sense or eloquence of a lawyer. Anyone can come in here and post questions in the spirit of looking for answers, not fights. Bear in mind that this is the forum where most of the participants are Christians. Most, if not all, are willing to give our opinions when asked respectfully, but when the entire train of dialogue degenerates into a series of name-calling, then it becomes less meaningful to be engaging in it.Originally posted by stupidissmart:In law, how do u fight a case ? It is based on the lawyers fighting on the defense or prosecuter side. How is law fair since the capability of the lawyers may differ ? They make the assumption tat those who is right will naturally have more evidence on their side, thus have an advantage in fighting of a case.
Why not here ? This is the place where I can get the replies I want isn't it ? Isn't it the purpose of many christians to try to convert people into their cause ? If anything, I have the same intentions of trying to save more people too. If u believe in a religion, u want them to be fully aware of the situation isn't it ? U want them to make a decision tat is well thought of and had weigh both sides of the arguments before "placing their bets". Why try to cover the truth ? Why want to let believers hear only one side of the story ? Is it fair to them ?
You are obviously mistaken about the conversion process. Christians are only responsible for "bringing the Gospel to all nations". It is not our job to convert you. It is the Holy Spirit's work. We are not here to score brownie points with God.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am here and u all can try to do try to convert me too. If u manage to pursuade me, won't tat be pursuade more people over to christainity ?
At the current point in this topic as well as other related ones, we are all engaging each other only at the intellectual level. At the end of the day, we all have our pet sources to support our side of the stories, there will be no end to this, and it has become somewhat pointless.
On a personal level, I am a Christian, and that has got nothing to do with what you agree or not. It is a personal faith. Call me stupid if it is going to make you any happier, it does not matter to me. I do not have to account to you what I believe in. However if you are willing to further discuss this on a more amicable platform, you may continue to do so, but I reiterate, RESPECT. -
Yah, from the way you answer questions, i can tell you are neither a science student nor an open minded individual. You close yourself to all alternatives except your own ideals. Your battering is senseless because you keep piling information from your sources and insist that other sources are wrong. Your defense at many points seems so laughable and your logic incoherent. Take some time and read your old posts. At times, its not consistent and quite funny. Even science is not sure of macroevolution, but yet you, who isn't even a scientist, fight for that belief without evaluating other alternatives.
I think u better try to read properly. The information I am piling up is evidence about the one tat were given to me by other people had flaws. If u r open minded, u will take the time to read though them and see why tis is so. If my logic is laughable and incoherent, maybe u can take the time and tell me about it ? Science is not sure of macro evolution ? I got an article tat says it is already sure. It even explains some of the information about wat others said has flaws. Does it need a scientist to know how to read ? Isn't engineering a man of science too ?
Talking about open mindedness, I think u r not really suitable to say tat. R u open minded ? Didn't u take my sources as wrong while yours is correct as well ? Maybe only malboro appears to be qualified.Furthermore, I have only been to chruches a few times and i don't see anybody there that is sulking or that doesn't want to be there. They are happy, don't you see it. I guess you are too bias and insistent on imposing you views on others. If you can spend your time at a karaoke singing songs, why can't you spend your time in church to be with all your family and friends? You just don't see it do you?
Tat is because they believe in it. All this while I am not talking about whether they r happy to be in church or not. I am arguing when a christian had became a freethinker, then he will have realised the enormous time and money they had gained. They will be free.
Just think about it, for non christian they can study fully for exam during exam period. For the believers they will have lesser time since there appears to have a saying "u should take time to be with God on good times or bad times", and tat includes exam time.I never said you are a theological scholar, and by your arguments I would have never imagine you to be one. Neither can I imagine you to be a graduate by your inability to write and spell coherently.
Then why do u suggest to ignore the arguments from my side and blame the fault on the lack of theological scholars ? Am I a theological scholar ? U guys already have the number in your favour, why need to increase the odds by asking "theological scholars" ?
BTW I used to have higher opinions of u. I never know u will resort to personal attack, attacking on my character rather than the things I had written.Problem is, this is not a court of law, and obviously you do not even have the sense or eloquence of a lawyer. Anyone can come in here and post questions in the spirit of looking for answers, not fights. Bear in mind that this is the forum where most of the participants are Christians. Most, if not all, are willing to give our opinions when asked respectfully, but when the entire train of dialogue degenerates into a series of name-calling, then it becomes less meaningful to be engaging in it.
Have I do any name calling ? Have I posted something wrong here ? Wat disrespectful thing had I said, other than he swindler thingy ? I be frank to u I really can't find another word tat matches tis desciption but phrase it in a nice way.You are obviously mistaken about the conversion process. Christians are only responsible for "bringing the Gospel to all nations". It is not our job to convert you. It is the Holy Spirit's work. We are not here to score brownie points with God.
U r obviously mistaken about the real world. People have been asking them to go to church, asking people to watch Passion of Christ, knocking door to door asking people to go to church, camps and fairs and school pursuading people to go to church and peopel r encouraged to bring their friends over etc. Can u say none of these happened ?At the current point in this topic as well as other related ones, we are all engaging each other only at the intellectual level. At the end of the day, we all have our pet sources to support our side of the stories, there will be no end to this, and it has become somewhat pointless.
It may be pointless to u but it may means something for those on the line. There were people tat used to read sources from christian sides about christ historical links or evolution. It is refreshing to hear wat the freethinker views on such information isn't it ? It is good for everybody to hear both sides of the stories.On a personal level, I am a Christian, and that has got nothing to do with what you agree or not. It is a personal faith. Call me stupid if it is going to make you any happier, it does not matter to me. I do not have to account to you what I believe in. However if you are willing to further discuss this on a more amicable platform, you may continue to do so, but I reiterate, RESPECT.
Well, say tat to the people tat want to convert freethinkers into christians. I do not know how disrespectful I had got, or how much u desire. If I had to say out my views I had to say it out straight. I don't like to beat around the bush and confuse the readers in the end -
not an important point. but with regards to christians having less time to study because they go church. anyone, religious or non-religious, would have enough time to study with proper time management.
a student, with no religion, with good planning can also spend 2 hours pursuing his favourite pastimes. -
Originally posted by warrior_84:Hi malboro,
glad to hear that no offense is taken. A friend is better than a foe.
Agreed
Religion becoming an obsession? Correct me if I am wrong, Christians are taught to center their lives around Christ. Thus, Christians live for Christ and to spread his word. To categorise it as an obsession would be quite offending. It's a matter of perspective.
I'm not sure if its that 'offending' honestly, as u said, its a matter of perspective I mean, muslims and islam has been given more unsavoury names, that i would think is offending. maybe u can give me an idea on how to rephrase it then? "has religion become a ______?" wats ur view on a more appopriate n non-offending term?
One thing though, that has me convinced about the spiritual realm, is the miracles that happen. Furthermore it is impossible that all these cases of healings are fraud. Maybe one or two, but to throw away all claims as fraud is a show of ammeturism. I am not trying to convince you with arguements. But at the end of the day, lets respect one another and each other's belief.
personally, i have not encountered any 'miracles' of my own, so maybe i'm more skeptical abt things. Stories that u've heard, like most myths, have been so glorified that hardly any truth remains in them. at the end of the day, i still keep an open mind, and respect is given where its due.
by the way, up so late? watching soccer later? Arsenal vs Chelsea? I hope Arsenal wins! thats why I am up till now.
i often work well into the nite bet u must be disappointed wif the result then... ;p
kudos
p.s: Malboro can you name me a good text to start reading about sociology?
a book i find which is easy to read without dwelling too much on the various theories is "Perspectives in sociology" by cuff, sharrock, and francis
try looking for them at libaries, enjoy! -
double post
-
I agree wif u tat when we are desperate, we would then to seek help, from ANY source when we are at wits end, but i'm not sure actually that u can say that it's becos we believe in God.Originally posted by warrior_84:hi,
i have something to add. Do you think that subconciously, in everyone of us, we believe in a God. Why do i say this? Because, lets say if we are at a dead end, or down with bad illnesses that medicine can't cure, it is natural that we will pray and ask for a miracle. This is my view. What about the rest?
cheers
As stupidissmart commented, ppl would eat their own faeces in times of desperation, if the devil offers to help, they would grab it too! i guess that doesnt prove we believe in god subconciuously -
cant say much in terms of cells n emotions, but morals can be explained as 'developed' by society.Originally posted by sillyme:i believe in life created and that created life is dynamic to adapt to it's surrounding.
if all life evolved from a single cell, how did emotions come about? how did morals come about?
It's also known as collective moral concious, that is, behavior that is imposed and come to be accepted by society as a whole by group of individuals. this explains why although every indv is diff, they obey the same 'rules' that is imposed by society, due to pressure shown by other members of society.. -
Stupidissmart,
Go to reuters, search under the heading "Evolution". Count the numbers of articles that support evolution and those that don't. Hope that you will sincerely do this. Then, decide again, enjoy the search. And again reuters is the most reputable source, so don't question their credentials.
I am not forcing my perspective on you. I am still a student of evolution and I am always following new developments. Just because i don't agree with you, doesn't make me wrong. Or must i agree with you, only then will you say that I am an open minded and knowledgable individual? Is that the way its goes? Your way? For every article supporting Macro - evolution, there will be an article proving it false. Which is right and which is wrong? I don't know. Do you? You did say that there are many things that you do not know about? Then why do you insist that yours is the way? That is not how scientific studies is carried out.
Even now, the debate is still going on. How can you, not being a scientist, claim otherwise? I doubt so.
If you haven't realised, the tone of your arguement is offensive. thats why people are so pissed. Sometimes you have to look yourself in the mirror. If you claim that you are not biased? Then why the one-sided arguement, ignoring the other results.
I don't intend to go into science, but i know that the verdict is not out and that there is still an ongoing arguement. But you keep claiming that it has been decided. Just last month in Texas, the education board was looking to do away with the topic of human origin from apes due to the controversy surrounding it. -
In the name of the merciful and compassionate God.Originally posted by warrior_84:One person that has me confused is icemoon. Icemoon, you seem to be at times Christian yet at times against it? Are you Christian?
Btw, is Icemoon a Muslim?
Praise belongs to God, the Lord of the worlds, the merciful,
the compassionate, the ruler of the day of judgment!
Thee we serve and Thee we ask for aid.
Guide us in the right path, the path of those Thou art gracious to;
not of those Thou art wroth with; nor of those who err.
- Al-Fatihah -
Allah Akbar!
Baah ... the nearest cousin of christianity should be judaism lah.Originally posted by stupidissmart:For icemoon, I believe is in a religion having some "connection" with christainity yet he is not a christian or catholic. My guess is he is a muslim. -
Go to reuters, search under the heading "Evolution". Count the numbers of articles that support evolution and those that don't. Hope that you will sincerely do this. Then, decide again, enjoy the search. And again reuters is the most reputable source, so don't question their credentials.
I think there is a problem with the logic. Number of articles which r repeat from the other doesn't really mean anything. It just means more people tend to defend harder FOR christian more than against. Why is tat so ? I think most people will know.
If u feel my theories are not correct, maybe u can tell me where goes wrong.I am not forcing my perspective on you. I am still a student of evolution and I am always following new developments. Just because i don't agree with you, doesn't make me wrong. Or must i agree with you, only then will you say that I am an open minded and knowledgable individual? Is that the way its goes? Your way? For every article supporting Macro - evolution, there will be an article proving it false. Which is right and which is wrong? I don't know. Do you? You did say that there are many things that you do not know about? Then why do you insist that yours is the way? That is not how scientific studies is carried out.
I didn't say u r wrong or I am correct. I just bring out the articles tat support my stand. About being open minded, u r the one tat starts tis isn't it. U want someone to use evidence to support the cell theory and I didn't agree with him so bring up articles tat support my theory. Then u start accusing I am not open minded. So the question now goes to u, if I do not agree with u, to u does tat means I am not open minded ?
Again I have to say, I just bring out the articles out. However u r the one tat keep insisting your side r correct and say tat "number of article = correct" etc. Actually u don't really practise wat u preachIf you haven't realised, the tone of your arguement is offensive. thats why people are so pissed. Sometimes you have to look yourself in the mirror. If you claim that you are not biased? Then why the one-sided arguement, ignoring the other results.
My stand is on the freethinker side. The other people stand is on christians. Wat do u want me to do ? Argue with myself ? Aren't u one sided too ? I thought u say u r neutral ?I don't intend to go into science, but i know that the verdict is not out and that there is still an ongoing arguement. But you keep claiming that it has been decided. Just last month in Texas, the education board was looking to do away with the topic of human origin from apes due to the controversy surrounding it.
Why ? If u ask me it is religion. Tat is the controversy around it.
Icemoon wat religon r u ? I am real curious... -
The problem with stupidissmart, and that is with all due respect, is that he always, and that is, always talks from an ironclad paradigm. From reading his posts, it appears that physcial suffering and torment are the only things that can change that pradigm.
Of course, there are plenty of things we can say about him missing the big picture, but in the light of fruitful attempting to even start level-grounded talks without running into a wall of his illusionary rules. In the light of costly power being wasted trying to talk even normally with him, I propose we only say what we have to say.
After all, I had no illusions over his real intentions of voicing out here anyway and it's hardly fair talk. -
Begging your pardon, but where is it that you find that I have stated to ignore the arguments from your side and blame the fault of the lack of theological scholars? I had meant that all if anyone finds the posting from Christians inadequate, it is likely that the Christian participants in this forum are really not theological scholars.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Then why do u suggest to ignore the arguments from my side and blame the fault on the lack of theological scholars ? Am I a theological scholar ? U guys already have the number in your favour, why need to increase the odds by asking "theological scholars" ?
I apologise that I may have offending you in some ways. I take it all back. However you have to agree that most of the comments on the style of your posting states that you have been extremely harsh in your tones. You already have your preconceived idea of the topic at hand and for each explanation given, you come back guns ablazing. There is really no room for a proper amicable discussion.
BTW I used to have higher opinions of u. I never know u will resort to personal attack, attacking on my character rather than the things I had written.
You are obviously entitled to your opinion of whether Jesus is a swindler or not. What would you say if we make the same pronouncement on someone your love? Perhaps, your parents....
Have I do any name calling ? Have I posted something wrong here ? Wat disrespectful thing had I said, other than he swindler thingy ? I be frank to u I really can't find another word tat matches tis desciption but phrase it in a nice way.
Please, don't get me wrong here. Just trying to illustrate a point. By your definition, calling someone a swindler is NOT name calling? Do bear in mind that the name Jesus is very dear to the people in Eternal Hope. If you do not agree to the faith that the Christians, here in Eternal Hope and elsewhere is professing, than stay out.
Herein you are again mistaken. Asking people to go to church, watching the Passion, knocking on doors IS NOT CONVERSION. It is merely allowing the non-believers to have an opportunity to experience Christian fellowship and teaching. The commandment given to Christians by Jesus is to "go forth and tell the world" NOT CONVERT the world. We are to spread the good news. Whether, you as an individual, believe in this good news is another matter.
U r obviously mistaken about the real world. People have been asking them to go to church, asking people to watch Passion of Christ, knocking door to door asking people to go to church, camps and fairs and school pursuading people to go to church and peopel r encouraged to bring their friends over etc. Can u say none of these happened ?
It becomes pointlless when a discussion turns into an argument. Here is not to say that I do not value comments to, say, forumites like Marlboro and Ventin. I believe all will agree that the postings of these individuals are more enquiring than argumentative in nature. Even within the Christian community, there are differing opinions on evolution, creation etc. But the moment any posting becomes relentless argumentative than it becomes pointless.
It may be pointless to u but it may means something for those on the line. There were people tat used to read sources from christian sides about christ historical links or evolution. It is refreshing to hear wat the freethinker views on such information isn't it ? It is good for everybody to hear both sides of the stories.
There are many ways to make a statement. You can ask politely or you can demand. But what you give is what you get. Please, may I advice that if you wish to pursue this topic further, do not ever, ever make derogatory remarks about Jesus.
Well, say tat to the people tat want to convert freethinkers into christians. I do not know how disrespectful I had got, or how much u desire. If I had to say out my views I had to say it out straight. I don't like to beat around the bush and confuse the readers in the end