Religion religion religion .. has it become an obession.?
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After reading much of stupidissmart's thread on whether religion is still relevent after science, here are some of my thoughts.
Religion is 1st invented by people who used God to explain things that they dun understand.(eg. thunder n lightling) when science became more advanced, and started to explain these phenomenons, ppl start to believe in God less. But certain groups refuses to give up the immense power n wealth they have amassed thru the ignorance of ppl and keep pointing to other things that 'have not' been explained by science(note, i use 'have not' not 'cannot') and try to keep ppl believing in God, as well as stressing that 'their' religion is the one 'TRUE' religion. I'm not against any specific religion when I say this(though it might be seen as pointing to the churches
), jus wat I see from a sociological point of view.
Personally, I have nothing against religion. I think religion should simply be something to base ur faith in, something to give u strength when u believe u are receiving help from a 'higher' source. I am not a believer/practitioner of any faith, rather, I respect all faithes. I dun eat pork when I'm with my muslim frens, no beef wif my buddist frens and try to speak politically correctly when I'm wif my christian frens
Obession wif religion has certainly IMO become a serious issue. It is certainly unhealthy, as we can see from the terrorist attacks against 'non-muslims' countries or even the local case of the embezzlement case of the pastor which happen cos ppl believe too much in the 'strenth(?)' of their religion group, or the many stories of abuse(sexual or otherwise) by high ranked members of religious group.
to sum it up, wat i think is tat religion MAY really become obsolete in time to come, although many powerful groups will be unwilling to accept it and give up their power. Believe in wat u may, but do not force ur views on others, and there is no one REAL/CORRECT religion no matter how much u want to believe it to be. -
Sigh.. this is a never ending battle with the same topics coming up over and over again. But nvm.. God will prevail. Being a science student myself.. I understand how fallable science is.. in fact ask any lecturer for yourself. Dun get me mistaken.. science is not BadÂ… look at all the medical advances and the lives that are saved. But why do ppl rather believe that the world was created by chance (evolutionists) rather than by God (creationist)
In 1925 .. with the publishment of space trial.. most scintist agreed that the universe was unlimited. However.. thanks to Einstein.. we now know that tthere was a beginning!
First evolutionÂ… through advances in biochemistry.. we know and have mapped out 3.2 billion base pairs of precisely oriented, precisely placed human DNA. Through the use of telescopic machinery.. we can gauge that the universe existed for about 15 billiob years.
Now comes the problems.. how did the first single cell organism with (rough estimate) 50,000 base pairs.. become 3.2 billion? .. where did the extra 3 billion base pair come from?
Lets first rule out DarwinÂ’s natural selection.. natural selection can only cause a change in the existing DNAÂ’s information. So where did the mechanism for the additional 3 billion + base pair come from?
This is not all.. the first cells were asexualÂ… meaning that through binary fusion.. they split in 2 to reproduce. But the cells existing in humans are eukaryotic. Mening that through mitosis, individual male and female cells exchange gamates to reproduce (put it crudely sperm and egg). According to modern theories.. eukaryotic cells allows for change.. not asexual cells. BÂ’coz, asexual cells are an exact replica of each other. While eukaryotic cells allows the xÂ’change of DNA info. So then how did evolution come around??
How did the single asexual cell redevelop?
In addition to that.. if according to macro-evolution.. the first living organism were evolved from chemicals. How did that happen? These are processes that science cannot answer. They can just guess.
The problem with evolution is that ppl tend to look at the later processes of apes to humans.. not from cells. Micro evolution is possible.. but macro.. its almost impossible. The possibility of all these becoming one is 1 out of 10 (add another 40 thousand zeroÂ’s behind 10) . Yet ppl choose to believe this possibility. NOW thatÂ’s what I call faith. -
The watch maker taleÂ…
The watchmaker
Hans created time pieces. When he was young.. he made sundials.. later he went on to build hour glasses. Slowly.. he made grandfather clocks.. and clocks of every sizes. But his most prized creation is a Goold Watch.
He worked on details for many yrs.. labored over design, weight, the spring, crystal,etc.. finally when the last piece was placed.. the sound begin.. tickÂ…tick..tick
Evolution the watchmaker
Billions of yrs ago, the earth was a sea of ooze.. richly laden with the proper elements needed to create time pieces. Bits of Gold..silica, and even paint. Millions of yrs went by.. then the inevitable happened. Bits of pieces were joined together by volcanic heat. Amazingly, the molecules of metal bonded in the EXACT way needed to have intrinsic gears and balance of wheels. As the parts tumbled in the ozze, delicate polishing occurred.. polishing just enough to produce a perfectly calibrated timepiece. Billions of yrs went by.. molecules of black paint landed in exactly the way needed to form numbers. Over another million of yrs.. everything came together perfectly.. to form the exquisite Gold watch. It was beautiful.. perfect.. just thatÂ…
It needed some one to wind it.
How? I dunno.. I think that I am going to stick to my belief that God created me. I think so too will other Christians.
Anyway.. I wun be replying to this threadÂ… rather spend the time learning more abt other things.. than to spend the time rebutting something that I know as the truth. -
guilty as charged... hey beauty inspires obsession... so says the ad makers...
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nice illustration... i guess those who believe in evolution per se must also be thinking that an untidy room will somehow tidy itself on its own.Originally posted by songs:The watch maker taleÂ…
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you are toking abt a living thing and a non living thing. then u close off the arguement wif u rather spend time doing something else than rebutting wat u know as truth. jus becos u believe in something makes it true without proof. wonderful arguement.Originally posted by songs:The watch maker taleÂ…
The watchmaker
Hans created time pieces. When he was young.. he made sundials.. later he went on to build hour glasses. Slowly.. he made grandfather clocks.. and clocks of every sizes. But his most prized creation is a Goold Watch.
He worked on details for many yrs.. labored over design, weight, the spring, crystal,etc.. finally when the last piece was placed.. the sound begin.. tickÂ…tick..tick
Evolution the watchmaker
Billions of yrs ago, the earth was a sea of ooze.. richly laden with the proper elements needed to create time pieces. Bits of Gold..silica, and even paint. Millions of yrs went by.. then the inevitable happened. Bits of pieces were joined together by volcanic heat. Amazingly, the molecules of metal bonded in the EXACT way needed to have intrinsic gears and balance of wheels. As the parts tumbled in the ozze, delicate polishing occurred.. polishing just enough to produce a perfectly calibrated timepiece. Billions of yrs went by.. molecules of black paint landed in exactly the way needed to form numbers. Over another million of yrs.. everything came together perfectly.. to form the exquisite Gold watch. It was beautiful.. perfect.. just thatÂ…
It needed some one to wind it.
How? I dunno.. I think that I am going to stick to my belief that God created me. I think so too will other Christians.
Anyway.. I wun be replying to this threadÂ… rather spend the time learning more abt other things.. than to spend the time rebutting something that I know as the truth.
might as well i give u an tale on the creation of God.
going by science, god have parents, just like u and me, and their parents have parents etc. They gave birth to god thru sexual intercourse, then natural birth.
by ur logic, god is created by who? thin air? is god an orphran? u know nothing yet u r unable to open your mind to other possibilities... he is there simply becos u believe. do u never have any doubts on anything? -
anyway, since the moderator already told me that this forum is simply for christian believers to sing their own praises, i shall make myself sarce, enjoy urself behind your closed walls and let the whole world pass u by.
I'll be interested if u wan to carry on this discussion, in another more open forum grp. but i doubt u ppl can handle the REAL truth -
ok lah.. my mistake..
if want to discuss, discuss pls.
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u're right pple neva wanted to know the REAL truth.. thats y they come up with airy fairy stuff.. but what makes u think they dun already know it? zhuo guan qi gai lan zhuo guan.. i've come to realise pple dun want the responsibilty that comes with it.. u underestimate the power of pple's will.. its all about choice.. if u dun want pple to force their religious views on u, i'm sure u shouldn't force ur scientific views on them...
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Hi,
this is my first post! kind of excited kakaa. This is really an interesting topic and evolution has always intruiged me. I am a neutral but one thing occurs to me.
Malboro, songs has stated in his first post how impossible macro evolution is. He wrote some information about how single cells reproduced themselves. Why did you choose to ignore the whole thread but focus on his second thread which is clearly an analogy?
Furthermore, what you mentioned is clearly contradictory. A human being is far more complex than a watch. Thus, wouldn't forming a watch be easier than the formation of the human race? You seem more bias than him, attacking a few points and ignoring all the scientific facts. You haven't answered his questions on evolution yet.
You also forget that he is a Christian. So your arguement on science explaining the creation on God and all that sexual things are out. He believes that God created everything. That is the basic Christian belief right? In any case, I am in a debating team actually, and your tone of arguement is offensive. Will you be pleased if i use words like orphan on you? There should be ethics to follow.
Songs, why are you running away by choosing not to post anymore. It seems like you are admitting defeat? Besides that, your analogy, although a bit bias, was quite funny. Are you into Psychology? Because the method you used, in debating terms is called the intuitive analogy. Please continue posting. I think i can learn a lot here.
Kudos,
Warrior! -
Well well well.... it must be hard to put together life isn't it ? But then going by this argument, it must be MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to build up God which is far more complex than Life. So who is the one tat do the making of the "watch" ?First evolution¡ through advances in biochemistry.. we know and have mapped out 3.2 billion base pairs of precisely oriented, precisely placed human DNA. Through the use of telescopic machinery.. we can gauge that the universe existed for about 15 billiob years.
Now comes the problems.. how did the first single cell organism with (rough estimate) 50,000 base pairs.. become 3.2 billion? .. where did the extra 3 billion base pair come from?
Lets first rule out Darwin¡¯s natural selection.. natural selection can only cause a change in the existing DNA¡¯s information. So where did the mechanism for the additional 3 billion + base pair come from? [/quote]
Tat is funny... I thought u say u believe in micro evolution from the thread before ? Now u wanna rule out evolution completely ? If there is no change in "base pairs" then how come all the species of the dogs look different ? Don't tell me there is no change in base pairs for chihuahua and pit bull terrier.
The answer for your question for where the 3 billions base pairs ? Evolution lor.This is not all.. the first cells were asexual¡ meaning that through binary fusion.. they split in 2 to reproduce. But the cells existing in humans are eukaryotic. Mening that through mitosis, individual male and female cells exchange gamates to reproduce (put it crudely sperm and egg). According to modern theories.. eukaryotic cells allows for change.. not asexual cells. B¡¯coz, asexual cells are an exact replica of each other. While eukaryotic cells allows the x¡¯change of DNA info. So then how did evolution come around??
Answer again... evolution + millions and millions of years. Do u really know the power of evolution ? How come bacteria or virus have the ability to be resistant to certain drugs ? Why will the corona virus normally affecting animals will mutate into SARS ? Why will the bird flu spread to human ?
How did the single asexual cell redevelop?
Unicellular organisms have evolved the ability to use nylon and pentachlorophenol (which are both unnatural manmade chemicals) as their sole carbon sources (Okada et al. 1983; Orser and Lange 1994). The acquisition of this latter ability entailed the evolution of an entirely novel multienzyme metabolic pathway (Lee et al. 199
.In addition to that.. if according to macro-evolution.. the first living organism were evolved from chemicals. How did that happen? These are processes that science cannot answer. They can just guess.
It is true science do not know everything. However the approach for it is to try to find it out. Then how God come about ? Surely in the end it have to come from chemical itself too ?The problem with evolution is that ppl tend to look at the later processes of apes to humans.. not from cells. Micro evolution is possible.. but macro.. its almost impossible. The possibility of all these becoming one is 1 out of 10 (add another 40 thousand zero¡¯s behind 10) . Yet ppl choose to believe this possibility. NOW that¡¯s what I call faith.
I had put the references for 29+ reasons to believe in macro evolution. Maybe u can try to read it.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
BTW... the calculation is a bit flawed since they r using the probability of mature human cells tat had reached stability state instead of the fastest evoluting cells found in bacteria and viruses. If u used their speed, the probability will come much lower.
PS: wat u had said is the improbability, not the impossibility. As wat Icemoon would love to say
U r already saying it may happened, not never.
The watch maker tale¡ÂThe watchmaker
Hans created time pieces. When he was young.. he made sundials.. later he went on to build hour glasses. Slowly.. he made grandfather clocks.. and clocks of every sizes. But his most prized creation is a Goold Watch.
He worked on details for many yrs.. labored over design, weight, the spring, crystal,etc.. finally when the last piece was placed.. the sound begin.. tick¡Âtick..tick
Evolution the watchmaker
Billions of yrs ago, the earth was a sea of ooze.. richly laden with the proper elements needed to create time pieces. Bits of Gold..silica, and even paint. Millions of yrs went by.. then the inevitable happened. Bits of pieces were joined together by volcanic heat. Amazingly, the molecules of metal bonded in the EXACT way needed to have intrinsic gears and balance of wheels. As the parts tumbled in the ozze, delicate polishing occurred.. polishing just enough to produce a perfectly calibrated timepiece. Billions of yrs went by.. molecules of black paint landed in exactly the way needed to form numbers. Over another million of yrs.. everything came together perfectly.. to form the exquisite Gold watch. It was beautiful.. perfect.. just that¡Â
It needed some one to wind it.
And another thing. Why does life occurs ? The probability is very very very low, almost 0 or 1 in 100 trillion or something. However, one need to realise how many molecules r there altogether in this galaxy Another few trillions trillions? how much time has it took billion and billions of years? How many different reaction tat can take place up till now ? I put it as infinity, or in the sense of trillions trillions trillions.
SO wat is the probability of creating life ? Both r astronomical figures if u notice. If u ask me, I believe the odds are it is possible.
PS: I am gonna put it down again. This is dedicated for Icemoon who would love to say
U r already saying it may happened, not never.
[quote]Furthermore, what you mentioned is clearly contradictory. A human being is far more complex than a watch. Thus, wouldn't forming a watch be easier than the formation of the human race? You seem more bias than him, attacking a few points and ignoring all the scientific facts. You haven't answered his questions on evolution yet. About bias, talking about a clock to link with human in the first place is wrong. Talking about creation, in the end it must be something tat wasn't designed from the start, it appears naturally. Why can't it happened now in our nature world ?He believes that God created everything. That is the basic Christian belief right?
Going by science, a gigantic mass creates everything. However they will be asking where does the mass comes from. So I guess it is fair to ask them where does God comes from. Believing it and substantiating it is different.
For religion, they ask u not to question since no one has the answer. Just blindly make this assumption. For science they show some calculations and theories, and had resisted the "attack" of many other scientists.
Which is more believable ? -
Hey, how come I keep seeing my name in the reply?
I feel so honoured to be quoted. -
Are science and religion mutually exclusive? Can you only choose one over the other?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Which is more believable?
You keep asking which one more believable, as if Scripture is a scientific book competing with your science text on issue of evolution and cosmology. -
Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception The temporary abstracts of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?
Like everybody else, I have had more then my fair share of doubtful moments, but in the end, I figure I really got nothing to lose anyway. Sure beats the rat race anyday and living for notions of shallow friends and superfical relationships. -
Originally posted by warrior_84:Hi,
this is my first post! kind of excited kakaa. This is really an interesting topic and evolution has always intruiged me. I am a neutral but one thing occurs to me.
hi, welcome! ;p
Malboro, songs has stated in his first post how impossible macro evolution is. He wrote some information about how single cells reproduced themselves. Why did you choose to ignore the whole thread but focus on his second thread which is clearly an analogy?
honestly, i'm not much of a science student, i'm a sociology student
therefore, in terms of the evolution n stuff, i admit i dun know much, i did not refute his views.
Furthermore, what you mentioned is clearly contradictory. A human being is far more complex than a watch. Thus, wouldn't forming a watch be easier than the formation of the human race?
i dun see how i'm being contradictory. A living thing can change/evolve, but a non-living thing simply cant. Animals living in cold env grow more fur, change their fur color seasonally, this is a fact.
You seem more bias than him, attacking a few points and ignoring all the scientific facts. You haven't answered his questions on evolution yet.
as i said, my point of view is purely sociological
You also forget that he is a Christian. So your arguement on science explaining the creation on God and all that sexual things are out. He believes that God created everything. That is the basic Christian belief right?
so a christian n their beliefs cannot be wrong? I believe that all things in life shd be free, do i just go into any shop n take wat i wan, n if arrested, i simply tell them god meant for things to be free for all, so payment does not apply to me?
In any case, I am in a debating team actually, and your tone of arguement is offensive. Will you be pleased if i use words like orphan on you? There should be ethics to follow.
maybe my tone is offensive? perhaps i guess. I'm jus pissed at the way he ended his post, simply saying he's right n tats it. i welcome a good discussion or argument anytime, not a shout n run attitude. btw, when i used the term orphan, i am not refering to him. I'm jus saying if someone(in this case god) has no parents, is he an orphan? cos we know god is jesus father, i'm jus asking if god has its father. I dun see which code of ethics i broke.
Songs, why are you running away by choosing not to post anymore. It seems like you are admitting defeat? Besides that, your analogy, although a bit bias, was quite funny. Are you into Psychology? Because the method you used, in debating terms is called the intuitive analogy. Please continue posting. I think i can learn a lot here.
Kudos,
Warrior! -
Hi,
there are so many unknowns in the world. From friends, I heard about the miracles of lourdes and I even watched a VCD called Marian Apparations. All these phenomenas, which include cancer healing, curing of crippled people are unexplainable. I also heard about a phenomena called stigmata, which left professors dumbfounded as the stigmatists bare the wounds of Christ.
Correct me if I am wrong, the Christian belief is that God is omnipotent. That means he doesn't need a creator. A question i ask myself, at the end of my life, what happens? Does everything end?
I don't think so. How about you guys? If it is just chance as in evolution, everything ends. There is no after life. Is that the conclusion that you want? Like icemoon had said, science and religion is not exclusive. Why the insistence of putting down Christian beliefs? Does it satisfy you? Why do you keep insisting?
I understand why Christians try to spread the word. Because it is in the bible. But stupidissmart, why do you try to convert Christians then? You are not commissioned to do so. If your theory is true, you should be outside having fun, ONS, KAraoke, pubbing. You only have one life. Why do you care what Christians think, go and enjoy yourself, don't bother about them. This is your only chance, you only live once.
Like what Singaporetyrranosaurus has said, he has seen enough to believe in Christ. So then, leave it as that, from what I see, you are trying to evaluate religion through science. It won't work, can't you see? If anything, you are strengthening their faith. They are united now because of you. Ironic isn't it? I took Bio for my A's and although I didn't fare quite well, I do know how DNA information is transferred and your theories seem very obsolete.
Anyway, I have no problems with religion, to each his own. But I hope everything doesn't end when life comes to an end. -
Hi malboro,Originally posted by marlboro:
sorry if my tone is too strong. Hope no offense is taken, haehae. But lets just respect the beliefs of Christians. From the earlier post under the heading of relevance of science and religion, some of the tone against Christianity was quite agressive. I didn't think it was right. So I'm fighting for them now! haehae, life is weird. Socialogy? Wow tough, tried reading into it before.
What is your view then? Believe that there is life after death? -
One of the reasons religion persist is becos alot of ppl, like u, wan something to hang on to. they dun wan to believe that when life ends, it ends. I'm not saying thats the definite truth or that there is no afterlife, i, like everyone else do not know(even if they shd claim otherwise). I agree that science n religion can co-exist, and i'm not trying to make anyone turn against their religion n beliefs, i jus feel that one needs to look at things from more than a single-minded perspective.Originally posted by warrior_84:Hi,
there are so many unknowns in the world. From friends, I heard about the miracles of lourdes and I even watched a VCD called Marian Apparations. All these phenomenas, which include cancer healing, curing of crippled people are unexplainable. I also heard about a phenomena called stigmata, which left professors dumbfounded as the stigmatists bare the wounds of Christ.
Correct me if I am wrong, the Christian belief is that God is omnipotent. That means he doesn't need a creator. A question i ask myself, at the end of my life, what happens? Does everything end?
I don't think so. How about you guys? If it is just chance as in evolution, everything ends. There is no after life. Is that the conclusion that you want? Like icemoon had said, science and religion is not exclusive. Why the insistence of putting down Christian beliefs? Does it satisfy you? Why do you keep insisting?
I understand why Christians try to spread the word. Because it is in the bible. But stupidissmart, why do you try to convert Christians then? You are not commissioned to do so. If your theory is true, you should be outside having fun, ONS, KAraoke, pubbing. You only have one life. Why do you care what Christians think, go and enjoy yourself, don't bother about them. This is your only chance, you only live once.
Like what Singaporetyrranosaurus has said, he has seen enough to believe in Christ. So then, leave it as that, from what I see, you are trying to evaluate religion through science. It won't work, can't you see? If anything, you are strengthening their faith. They are united now because of you. Ironic isn't it? I took Bio for my A's and although I didn't fare quite well, I do know how DNA information is transferred and your theories seem very obsolete.
Anyway, I have no problems with religion, to each his own. But I hope everything doesn't end when life comes to an end.
my qns is simply one that has religion become an obsession?
In sociology, we always say that there is no one true or real theory. many diff theories are put forward for ppl to debate and the merits n flaws of each theories are dissected and the 'best' theory is accepted until the next 'better' one comes along. but when it comes to religion, ppl simply become very single-minded in defending their beliefs without considering any other possibilities. I'm jus trying to make ppl see there COULD be something else other than what they believe in if they could only care to open their minds to it. -
hi warrior,Originally posted by warrior_84:Hi malboro,
sorry if my tone is too strong. Hope no offense is taken, haehae. But lets just respect the beliefs of Christians. From the earlier post under the heading of relevance of science and religion, some of the tone against Christianity was quite agressive. I didn't think it was right. So I'm fighting for them now! haehae, life is weird. Socialogy? Wow tough, tried reading into it before.
What is your view then? Believe that there is life after death?
no offence taken, dun worry
sociology is very interesting if u really get into it, u shd try reading it again Personally, I dun believe in life after death, which is why i believe in making full use of wat u have in this life cos u wont be getting a 2nd chance. but then again, i hope i might be wrong.. haha -
Hi malboro,
glad to hear that no offense is taken. A friend is better than a foe.
Religion becoming an obsession? Correct me if I am wrong, Christians are taught to center their lives around Christ. Thus, Christians live for Christ and to spread his word. To categorise it as an obsession would be quite offending. It's a matter of perspective. One thing though, that has me convinced about the spiritual realm, is the miracles that happen. Furthermore it is impossible that all these cases of healings are fraud. Maybe one or two, but to throw away all claims as fraud is a show of ammeturism. I am not trying to convince you with arguements. But at the end of the day, lets respect one another and each other's belief.
by the way, up so late? watching soccer later? Arsenal vs Chelsea? I hope Arsenal wins! thats why I am up till now.
kudos
p.s: Malboro can you name me a good text to start reading about sociology? -
Great man, warrior_84 and marlboro are such friendly chaps .. if only stupidissmart can be like them.
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hi,
i have something to add. Do you think that subconciously, in everyone of us, we believe in a God. Why do i say this? Because, lets say if we are at a dead end, or down with bad illnesses that medicine can't cure, it is natural that we will pray and ask for a miracle. This is my view. What about the rest?
cheers -
I am a neutral
I doubt it...there are so many unknowns in the world. From friends, I heard about the miracles of lourdes and I even watched a VCD called Marian Apparations. All these phenomenas, which include cancer healing, curing of crippled people are unexplainable. I also heard about a phenomena called stigmata, which left professors dumbfounded as the stigmatists bare the wounds of Christ
Well every religious have its own share of miracles too. In indian I remmeber a crying statue incident. Can u explain a crying statue incident ? Wat is the significance of a Marian Apparition anyway ?
There r a lot of hoax for miracle healings as well. In fact there is a famous one in America that cheats money and leaving their clients believing they r cured and refuse medications. If there is really such miracles happening, then there wouldn't be dead christians isn't it ? Why some christians get miracle heal while the other have to die ? Lastly, there r also miracle "revivals" from non christians too. They r proclaim dead which minutes after they woke up. Why ?
If u ask me... they really means nothing... miracles, or a very low probability of it occuring still happened in real world if u do not know...Correct me if I am wrong, the Christian belief is that God is omnipotent. That means he doesn't need a creator. A question i ask myself, at the end of my life, what happens? Does everything end?
Well, people r arguing tat all things need to be created. However God cannot be created since it is "omnipotent". So in short u guys admitted tat not all things in life has to be created by someone. Why not just admit that the universe is uncaused and cut out the middleman ?
BTW.. I have to say it again... u say God is omni potent because christian believe in it. How well do u know God ? How do u know he is omni potent ? Where do u get tis information ? Probably from the bible. The bible says the heart is the center of thinking, not the brain. Is tat true ? If the bible is not true here, how do u know it is true in this aspect ?I don't think so. How about you guys? If it is just chance as in evolution, everything ends. There is no after life. Is that the conclusion that you want? Like icemoon had said, science and religion is not exclusive. Why the insistence of putting down Christian beliefs? Does it satisfy you? Why do you keep insisting?
As I said for his replies, u do not believe in wat u like. U should believe in the truth. If I believe wat I like, then I will believe I am Bill Gates, damn rich and damn successful. HOwever fact is I am not. Same as religion and afterlife. U like to believe in afterlife, however the truth exists no matter wat u believe. If people die and tat is the end, it is going to happen to u whether u believe in it or not.
BTW if there is such a thing as afterlife, why fear death ? Why need "spiritual healing" ? Deep down in everyone heart they knew the end is the end. Or they don't believe in it as deeply as they should
Science, if true can prove religion to be wrong. Like the heart thingy explains above. If evolution is true and we r from monkeys, it proves tat God never meant to create Man in the first place. If science proves the Big Bang theory (actually it is proved), tat just means God never created the universe in the first place. Only one side can be true.I understand why Christians try to spread the word. Because it is in the bible. But stupidissmart, why do you try to convert Christians then? You are not commissioned to do so. If your theory is true, you should be outside having fun, ONS, KAraoke, pubbing. You only have one life. Why do you care what Christians think, go and enjoy yourself, don't bother about them. This is your only chance, you only live once.
here is one answer
http://freethought.freeservers.com/reason/againstrel.html
Many freethinkers believe that some religions are inherently harmful to humanity, and that just as believers have a right to express their views on religion, freethinkers have a right, and sometimes even a moral responsibility, to let their views be heard. Here are some examples of how religion is harmful: Religion often encourages bigotry, hatred and intolerance; it often prevents rational discussion of important issues such as abortion and euthanasia; it has inspired many wars and continues to make peace very difficult to achieve in such places as Northern Ireland and the Middle East; it often inspires religious zealots to commit acts of terrorism; it often tends to destroy its believers' sense of personal responsibility; and it is often mentally and emotionally unhealthy. Of course, religion is not all bad, but we still have an obligation to speak out against the aspects of religion that are harmful.
personally, I just can't stand the way christians r throwing their time, moeny and effort in something tat is certain to be wrong. I feel sad tat they r wasting these resources and got cheated for their whole lives in believing a heaven where it never exists. I also feel anger tat christians r trying to convert people over to their religion, and sometimes using methods most undesirable. I also can't stand the attitude of some christian in which they view unbelievers who r "stubborn and not open minded". I also cannot stand people who impose their "law" by refering to their bibles and reading using their own interpretations. Some of the laws like "cannot dye hair as u r betraying God gift to u", "killing people is okie as God will forgive me of my sins" or "wrote in technical reports all the things God has given us for the first para" or "cannot masterbate and wear condoms or go for abortions". Frankly these piss me offLike what Singaporetyrranosaurus has said, he has seen enough to believe in Christ. So then, leave it as that, from what I see, you are trying to evaluate religion through science. It won't work, can't you see? If anything, you are strengthening their faith. They are united now because of you. Ironic isn't it? I took Bio for my A's and although I didn't fare quite well, I do know how DNA information is transferred and your theories seem very obsolete.
If I am strenghtening their faith, so be it. At least I have tried, and will keep trying.
Which theories r obsolete ? If it is u must really tell me as they r not written by me but by some prominent professors or scientists around the world.Anyway, I have no problems with religion, to each his own. But I hope everything doesn't end when life comes to an end
Hope is one thing. Fact is another. I hope I can win the lottery. Fact is I am throwing the money in the drains. Believe in the truth, not the things u wanna believe. -
One thing though, that has me convinced about the spiritual realm, is the miracles that happen. Furthermore it is impossible that all these cases of healings are fraud.
Perhaps some of them are real, but how does Christianity explain miracles and healings in *other* religions?
There're Christians who believe God only hear the prayers of the saved. We can ask, what about the prayers Buddhists and Taoists utter? If God cannot hear (God can hear but He don't want to respond bah), then we can only explain their answered prayers as something due to chance or worse, a work of the devil.
Assume the God in Scripture exists, surely believers of other religions are under his sovereignity too? -
i have something to add. Do you think that subconciously, in everyone of us, we believe in a God. Why do i say this? Because, lets say if we are at a dead end, or down with bad illnesses that medicine can't cure, it is natural that we will pray and ask for a miracle. This is my view. What about the rest
Tat is because they r desperate. People trapped in collapsed buildings have to eat their shit and drink their urine. It is because subconciously they believe shit and urine is good for their body ?
Subconsciencely all people know tat death is the end of everything. Tat is why people, even if they r religious, fears death. Tat is why they go to see doctor instead of letting nature takes its course. If God want u to die because of this sickness, why do u want to cause a delay ?