thank you, mel gibson
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for wat?Originally posted by Icemoon:Great ... then you can reply to fandango's Catholic topic and help educate dumbdumb in the process.
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I can't stand Christians who are bigoted ... who think that their Catholic brethens are not saved.
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Why not you pray to God and He will tell you the answer?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:ok, so i receive jesus, and pray to a taoist god, and maybe go attend a satanic black mass. am i saved?
Maybe He will reveal you are not part of the Elect, so you are not saved, regardless who you pray to. -
exactly. and what makes you think u are saved? or i am saved. i only believe my faith, which is a promise which holds solid. but then again, if i receive christ, and follow other "gods" its all screwed.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why not you pray to God and He will tell you the answer?
Maybe He will reveal you are not part of the Elect, so you are not saved, regardless who you pray to.
its not bigotry. if i said it because i tot it was right, yea it is. but if the bible says so, then who you want to blame? unlike the catholics, i do not come up with my own theory without the bible backing. like it or not. you can't prove to me that the catholics are right, but i can show u where the catholics went wrong.Maybe He will reveal you are not part of the Elect, so you are not saved, regardless who you pray to.
right. you don't get saved by praying to any ol how "gods" now u get the picture. salvation is only by christ and christ alone. follow his commands instead of coming up with your own commands. -
i too, know the catholic teaching, and i find it vile.Originally posted by Icemoon:Great ... then you can reply to fandango's Catholic topic and help educate dumbdumb in the process.
what abt u? what do YOU know? abt christianity or catholic teaching. u're not even from either side. yet u talk like you know some shiat. lol. seen tim^gutiarist's post abt satanism? your postings in defence of catholic's teachings are as empty as his. -
if i receive christ, and follow other "gods" its all screwed.
According to the idea of predestination, I'll say you're not even saved in the first place. So how can it be screwed?
its not bigotry. if i said it because i tot it was right, yea it is. but if the bible says so, then who you want to blame?
Or rather you tot the bible say so. Question of presupposition and interpretation. Heh.
unlike the catholics, i do not come up with my own theory without the bible backing.
Protestants have their own trouble, or so Catholics thought, with Sola Scriptura. Different denominations believe different things. Since there is only One Truth, obviously some Christians are just coming out with their own theory even with bible backing.
like it or not. you can't prove to me that the catholics are right, but i can show u where the catholics went wrong.
We see how in the new topic. -
another thing icemoon, u notice he is AN EX CATHOLIC? ask him why he left. u lil prickOriginally posted by NeonTetra:being an ex-Catholic..i do... -
what abt u? what do YOU know? abt christianity or catholic teaching. u're not even from either side. yet u talk like you know some shiat.
The chinese has this adage, pang2 guan1 zhe3 qing1.
We chinese have another saying, pao1 zhuan1 yin3 yu4 ... and this is what I'm doing now. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
lol the bible teaches abt predestination? or is that another crap the catholic come up with?
[b]if i receive christ, and follow other "gods" its all screwed.
According to the idea of predestination, I'll say you're not even saved in the first place. So how can it be screwed?
its not bigotry. if i said it because i tot it was right, yea it is. but if the bible says so, then who you want to blame?
Or rather you tot the bible say so. Question of presupposition and interpretation. Heh.
unlike the catholics, i do not come up with my own theory without the bible backing.
Protestants have their own trouble, or so Catholics thought, with Sola Scriptura. Different denominations believe different things. Since there is only One Truth, obviously some Christians are just coming out with their own theory even with bible backing.
like it or not. you can't prove to me that the catholics are right, but i can show u where the catholics went wrong.
We see how in the new topic.[/b]
its hard to just simply come up new theory without fully conforming to the bible. most cults as you can see, are unable to conform to the bible's basic teaching. mormonism. jehovah witnesses, catholics.
another quote from my aunt. my friend was sharing with my grandmother abt the gospel, and she was very pissed, said we shouldn't confuse her as she is attending some cathe-whatever-fcuk course, and she should baptise as a catholic.
sharing the gospel abt Jesus reason of death, sin, eternal life, confuses with the teachings of the catholics?
tell me icemoon, wat do you actually know abt the catholic? are you one? lol if you aren't i find u ridiculous. its like erm. u arguing that islam jihad terrorism is right, when u aren't from them.
reminds me of a scenario where an aunty just loves to poke her nose into something she knows nothing about, trying to sound like she does... -
another thing icemoon, u notice he is AN EX CATHOLIC? ask him why he left. u lil prick
If he's comfortable, he'll tell us.
Well, there're many ex-christians around too. Should I ask them why they left and become atheist? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
yea u should. i left before too. want my explaination? i'm more than willing to share something that i went thru, as a catholic mass goer, and a christian.
[b]another thing icemoon, u notice he is AN EX CATHOLIC? ask him why he left. u lil prick
If he's comfortable, he'll tell us.
Well, there're many ex-christians around too. Should I ask them why they left and become atheist?
[/b]
unlike a certain prick who only can "as i quote shoot his mouth off" something he doesn't even know -
lol the bible teaches abt predestination? or is that another crap the catholic come up with?
From this reply, I realize you know nuts about christian theology.
Be careful of what you say. By saying this is 'crap', you've let one of the Protestant Fathers down. Indirectly, you may be bashing your Presbyterian brethens.
its hard to just simply come up new theory without fully conforming to the bible. most cults as you can see, are unable to conform to the bible's basic teaching. mormonism. jehovah witnesses, catholics.
Watch what you said. It is already a big thing to claim Catholics are not saved. Effectively you're saying most Christians before the Reformation were not saved.
You win lor. Effectively you're lumping those Christian Fathers who gave us the Doctrine of Trinity, Chalcedon , Nicene Creed, Apostle Creed, you name it ... as members of a cult.
*Clap clap* -
May I gently ask the participants of this forum to proceed with their discourses in a gracious manner.
There will always be differring views, but let us disagree respectfully.
I hope we can at least concur on this. Thank you.
edit: forgot my wink this laggy night, let me just add it in. -
i agree...the purpose of this forum is not to be a battle ground for denominational differences. U can list out the differences and explain why u say so and flaming is not the way....Originally posted by M:May I gently ask the participants of this forum to proceed with their discourses in a gracious manner.
There will always be differring views, but let us disagree respectfully.
I hope we can at least concur on this. Thank you.
edit: forgot my wink this laggy night, let me just add it in. -
I re-emphasise my stand clear that i do not hate Roman Catholics. I have a number of friends who are Roman Catholics who i have been trying to witness to by sharing the gospel with them. However, its the Church, the Vatican that I oppose because it is decieving people with a twisted gospel.
Firstly, i like to give some replies from the posting from Guest006.
And if you are takling about the influence and the sublimal message of works, I dont think so coz Mel Gibson said on national tv in the US( i think its on 60 minutes) that he believe that the only way to heaven is through Christ.
The fundamental beliefs of Roman Catholics on The Lord Jesus as the only way to salvation is similar with Protestants. So i am not surprised that Gibson said those words on TV because all Roman Catholics will say that. But its the beliefs and practice beyond this.
Who is the Intersessor? - Mary?
Mother of God? - Really such a thing in the Bible?
Queen of Heaven? - Such a thing in the Bible?
The Pope? - Such a position in the Bible?
Purgatory? - Is there such a place?
Eucharist? - what?
and so on....
This draws to the point about Predestination.
And yes, catholics are saved. From what I understand from my bible teachers, anyone who accepts Jesus as their savior at any one time in their life is saved.
DumbDumb and Icemoon were also in "deep" discussion over this issue. I am a Presbyterian and Predestination is a fundamental doctrine that we believe in. (I am not going to discuss about Predestination here because it will take another 5 day church camp to go through everything). With this in view, i believe that some Roman Catholics are predestinated to be called unto salvation but do not know the gospel yet.
Someone of you might wonder, "What is this guy talking about? What about not knowing the gospel yet? Don't they already know it?" It's different. Two different gospels. Protestant upholds a Gospel of salvation through faith and faith only, while Roman Catholics preaches salvation through faith PLUS works. I can try to explain this if anyone would like to know.
About different versions of Bible.
The Catholics have a few "extra" books in the bible. The rest of it is similar though punctuation might be different. I mention that coz punctuation makes a lot of difference in an indentical statements.
Apart from the few "extra" books mentioned, there were also numerous (alot) verses that were either added or removed for the benefit of the Vatican. Exodus 20 is the most classic example. We know that the Ten Commandments are mentioned twice in the Old Testament. Once in Exodus and once in Deuteronomy. Ten Commandments in both Books are the same. But wait a minute, it is different in the Roman Catholic Bible. The 2nd Commandment was strangely removed from Exodus 20. Now, in the Roman Catholics Catechesim materials, to teach new belivers of the fundamental beliefs, - when it comes to the Ten Commandment ONLY Exodus 20 is taught.
So whats the 2nd Commandment? This:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'' Exodus 20:4
Now you can see why.
Guest006 also mentioned:
It is more about christians having a visual images of their Lord's sacrifice. Just as the differnt books of the bible were written for differnt purposes, this movie has its own purpose.
This hit Exodus 20 right on the bull'seye. Do consider this verse in the Bible,
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. " John 20:29
The purpose of the movie is what we are contesting here. Some argue that its for evangelical, some other argue just for monetary gain. I think it is much more profound and Guest006 correctly pointed them out in his posting. -
Who is the Intersessor? - Mary?
Mother of God? - Really such a thing in the Bible?
Queen of Heaven? - Such a thing in the Bible?
The Pope? - Such a position in the Bible?
Purgatory? - Is there such a place?
Eucharist? - what?
and so on....
These are talked about in the the "extra" books. I read about that from christiananswers.com and I borrowed a bible from my catholic relative.
About different versions of Bible.
Apart from the few "extra" books mentioned, there were also numerous (alot) verses that were either added or removed for the benefit of the Vatican. Exodus 20 is the most classic example. We know that the Ten Commandments are mentioned twice in the Old Testament. Once in Exodus and once in Deuteronomy. Ten Commandments in both Books are the same. But wait a minute, it is different in the Roman Catholic Bible. The 2nd Commandment was strangely removed from Exodus 20. Now, in the Roman Catholics Catechesim materials, to teach new belivers of the fundamental beliefs, - when it comes to the Ten Commandment ONLY Exodus 20 is taught.
So whats the 2nd Commandment? This:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'' Exodus 20:4
Now you can see why.
Thanx for mentioning that, as I did not know that till know. Glad I could learn something new.Guest006 also mentioned:
This is a point somewhat similar to christian merchandise. I'm not going into detail here, but I think as long as christians dont worship the movie or place too much importance in it then it is ok to make a movie. Maybe some people can understand better visually, meaning to say that they "read" the bible through watching instead of reading or audio.
It is more about christians having a visual images of their Lord's sacrifice. Just as the differnt books of the bible were written for differnt purposes, this movie has its own purpose.
This hit Exodus 20 right on the bull'seye. Do consider this verse in the Bible,
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. " John 20:29
The purpose of the movie is what we are contesting here. Some argue that its for evangelical, some other argue just for monetary gain. I think it is much more profound and Guest006 correctly pointed them out in his posting.
I agree. There are profound things that we may not be able to understandd till it is revealed to us in heaven. Btw, I'm a "her". -
Originally posted by fandango:
Queen of Heaven is a pagan goddess mentioned in the Old Testament.
I re-emphasise my stand clear that i do not hate Roman Catholics. I have a number of friends who are Roman Catholics who i have been trying to witness to by sharing the gospel with them. However, its the Church, the Vatican that I oppose because it is decieving people with a twisted gospel.
Firstly, i like to give some replies from the posting from Guest006.
[b]And if you are takling about the influence and the sublimal message of works, I dont think so coz Mel Gibson said on national tv in the US( i think its on 60 minutes) that he believe that the only way to heaven is through Christ.
The fundamental beliefs of Roman Catholics on The Lord Jesus as the only way to salvation is similar with Protestants. So i am not surprised that Gibson said those words on TV because all Roman Catholics will say that. But its the beliefs and practice beyond this.
Who is the Intersessor? - Mary?
Mother of God? - Really such a thing in the Bible?
Queen of Heaven? - Such a thing in the Bible?
The Pope? - Such a position in the Bible?
Purgatory? - Is there such a place?
Eucharist? - what?
and so on....
This draws to the point about Predestination.
And yes, catholics are saved. From what I understand from my bible teachers, anyone who accepts Jesus as their savior at any one time in their life is saved.
DumbDumb and Icemoon were also in "deep" discussion over this issue. I am a Presbyterian and Predestination is a fundamental doctrine that we believe in. (I am not going to discuss about Predestination here because it will take another 5 day church camp to go through everything). With this in view, i believe that some Roman Catholics are predestinated to be called unto salvation but do not know the gospel yet.
Someone of you might wonder, "What is this guy talking about? What about not knowing the gospel yet? Don't they already know it?" It's different. Two different gospels. Protestant upholds a Gospel of salvation through faith and faith only, while Roman Catholics preaches salvation through faith PLUS works. I can try to explain this if anyone would like to know.
About different versions of Bible.
The Catholics have a few "extra" books in the bible. The rest of it is similar though punctuation might be different. I mention that coz punctuation makes a lot of difference in an indentical statements.
Apart from the few "extra" books mentioned, there were also numerous (alot) verses that were either added or removed for the benefit of the Vatican. Exodus 20 is the most classic example. We know that the Ten Commandments are mentioned twice in the Old Testament. Once in Exodus and once in Deuteronomy. Ten Commandments in both Books are the same. But wait a minute, it is different in the Roman Catholic Bible. The 2nd Commandment was strangely removed from Exodus 20. Now, in the Roman Catholics Catechesim materials, to teach new belivers of the fundamental beliefs, - when it comes to the Ten Commandment ONLY Exodus 20 is taught.
So whats the 2nd Commandment? This:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'' Exodus 20:4
Now you can see why.
Guest006 also mentioned:
It is more about christians having a visual images of their Lord's sacrifice. Just as the differnt books of the bible were written for differnt purposes, this movie has its own purpose.
This hit Exodus 20 right on the bull'seye. Do consider this verse in the Bible,
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. " John 20:29
The purpose of the movie is what we are contesting here. Some argue that its for evangelical, some other argue just for monetary gain. I think it is much more profound and Guest006 correctly pointed them out in his posting.
[/b]