Non christians...
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Hi guys. question.. as Christians we r told to spread the gospels rite. anyway.. what happens to those who never had a chance to ear about the good news.. what happens??
i dun thnk anyone knows .. but wad r ur views? -
God is merciful. If they heard the good news and rejected it, then thats a different story. But if they have not heard about it at all, then i believe that God will spare them or like maybe give them a second chance. Its just the same with aborted babies...where do they go?
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erm.. for aborted babies its different. they r not at the accouuntable age yet. i remember coming across a verse thatt mention something about accountability at a certain age. anyone wants tohelp me with that verse?
anyway.. i agree with you.. although i m not convinve or sure myself. but i hope that is wd happens. we can speculate all we want.. but we'll nv know
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do u mean that those whom have been approach to be christian but rejected this 'offer; is so-called sinful???Originally posted by cool_ridge:God is merciful. If they heard the good news and rejected it, then thats a different story. But if they have not heard about it at all, then i believe that God will spare them or like maybe give them a second chance. Its just the same with aborted babies...where do they go?
then what abt those with other religion? does god consider them as sin-ful too?
what do u mean by its the same as aborted babies? so where do they go? -
This is our belief.
God created us.
We are to love Him, and obey Him and to do His will.
Disobedience to Him is sin.
It's a hard pill to swallow.
However, I'm not sure how He judges those who have not heard about Him. But I believe He will judge rightly.
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if god is merciful, then he shud spare me when i rejected the so-called good news.Originally posted by Qoo`~`:do u mean that those whom have been approach to be christian but rejected this 'offer; is so-called sinful???
then what abt those with other religion? does god consider them as sin-ful too? -
hehe silly.. no worries (with regards to the disclamier), i know what u mean..just wanna know more only.....Originally posted by sillyme:This is our belief.
God created us.
We are to love Him, and obey Him and to do His will.
Disobedience to Him is sin.
It's a hard pill to swallow.
However, I'm not sure how He judges those who have not heard about Him. But I believe He will judge rightly.
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guys.. bear in mind that nobody here is actually a priesst or pastor. At best maybe a few CG leaders here n there.. so the answers we give may not be so accurate (we didn't study yrs of theology like the priests and pastors). so forgive mine if its not an accurate reflection.
anyway i read this i think in a philip yancy book (dunno the title though) . He mentios that heaven is a pure place. Wonderful and without sin. However, all of us have sinned .. thus we r stained. but given the sinlessness of heaven.. our stained garments (sins) make us unable to enter such a holy place. Thus, the only way to enter is to have our sins washed away. But who can wash away sins?? nobody except God! but what if you do not believe in him?? how do you forgive someone who doesn't believe in you. Because if u dun believe in him.. there's nothing God CAN do .. anyway... for such topics, i think nobody can give a satisfied answer. that why its called faith.
bottomline.. i believe in Jesus! there is no reason not to.. if you were a scientist.. yu would find it easiier to prove the existence that jesus did grace the earth than fnding prove of the existence of hitler or ceasar (seriously.. no kiddin). but again that is secondary.
I love God and i can feel him in my life... thats the most imporant.. and because i know .. i can't reject hm... its something like a polic committing a crime.
hope i dun offend ppl with this post -
always welcomeOriginally posted by Qoo`~`:hehe silly.. no worries (with regards to the disclamier), i know what u mean..just wanna know more only..... -
X2.Originally posted by weeeeeee.....:if god is merciful, then he shud spare me when i rejected the so-called good news. -
God's mercy and grace cannot compromise His justice and righteousness. Just because He is loving and compassionate doesnt mean He can tolerate sins.
That's why He send His Son to die, in Christ God poured out His love to us by crucifying Him onto the cross. He made Christ who has no sin, to be sin for us, so that He can reconcile us back to Himself.
Is it that hard to comprehend? -
Its hard to comprehend when we read things like 'them' and 'us'.
No offence, sillyme and neon, but when we start to use such terms, its very divisive.
Its already enough to hear 'we accept Christ into our life', but isnt it a tad too far to say something like "But if they have not heard about it at all, then i believe that God will spare them or like maybe give them a second chance." It is tantamount to saying 'the teachings of Christ are superior to others, and hope God save these poor sods", even if they are atheists.
Love one, love all. Love all without requisite or barriers.
Remember this, Neon? -
no offence taken.
my statements are not meant to be divisive lah.
e.g. when i said God created us.. it really meant He created mankind..
but.. if we don't use 'them' 'us', how do one answer the question posted?
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Just to add.
this forum is created to encourage believers and a place to express our love for our God.
it also serves a place to answer doubts some may have to our best ability by God's grace.
it's not meant to put down other religions or beliefs. -
One question always pop up in my mind whenever people post a topic on Christianity.
Twice, my friends have approached me and let me read literatures such as "The Last Bread" (did I get the name correct?) and explained to me how Jesus become their saviour. They were very passionate about it, and I appreciate their enthusiasm. But not once did they mention the following things, knowing their aim was to convert me:
...that I should be embracing Jesus into my life, or that God created 'us' which include me, or how we are sinful, and that we should let Him into our life to help us to clear our sins and so on.
Yes, they were passionate about it, but they never go beyond that.
Why do some, if not all, Christians always talk about 'others'? "'Others' are sinful, and we should spread the good news.", "Leave it to God to judge the rest",
Yes, sillyme, I do agree this forum should only for believers. I believe one should talk about how Jesus save his life, or to post verses from the Bible.
Its irksome when one post a topic talking about 'others'. Such a topic is but a taint on the teachings of Christ. -
Pardon me if my english is poor.
To us, those who have believe, we address ourselves as 'us'. So naturally, when talking about our faith, we address those who do subscribe to our beliefs as 'them'. Maybe 'others' is not an appropriate term. We're all the same, just that some have believed and some have not. We're not a class above any others, just that Christians have their hope in God.
Anyway, I do not wish that this topic turn into debate on which religion is 'better'. We find solace in different things and we decide how to live our lives. To each his own. -
laurence82.. you've got to be fair. ppl use "others" all the time. e.g.: u're talking to a friend. "hi! i'm going swimming today.. wad r u n the others going to do?" u see.. there's no malice there. and y do christians try n spread the gospel? because we care and trying to spread the good news of jesus to non-believers (i almost used others instead of non-believers .. u see.. no malice was involved).
Although some go abt it, admittedly, in the wrong manner, but overall they r trying to help you. Sorry if you felt that by using the words "others" hurting.. but like i said repetedly.. no malice was inintended and Christians r in no ways a class above the rest. We r sinners just like anybody .. dats why we needs God's grace. -
I have been approached by Christians many times... even my buddy oso once tried to "show me da wae"... but I shunned them all... In accordance to such, those who do not accept Jesus Christ can be considered "not saved"...
Frankly speaking its fine wif me. Bcoz I simply cannot accept where got such good stuffs come by dis easily? In a sense dat if U believe in him, U r saved. I m a stubborn person. I will have to see for myself when I leave da mortal world is it true or not. No 1 can convince me otherwise. -
The point is this.
If we feel we are saved, and we are happy about it, why cant we just talk about how we are saved, and feel blessed, and stop here?
Why is there a need to talk about saving non believers, sharing to non believers about the good news and so on?
Yes, we need to use such terms to define certain things, but seems no one realise that to utter such things, we subconciously telling someone we are superior, we feel such beliefs, and gospels of Christ is good for them. And worse, some act upon it, from non believers being annoyed, or to forced baptism in some areas of the world. And for those who refuse, its already enough to call them non believers, how come statement such as "They are not saved." is used?
I feel making such remarks are contradictory if one says " I hope to spread the gospels of Christ to non believers, but I dont have the intention or the thoughts that the teachings of Christ are superior" When you feel what you done or think is better, of course you hope to spread the cause or the solutions.
Anyone see what I meant? And this does not apply only to Christians. -
For me i believe in God because it is a win win situation.
Scenario 1. No God, no afterlife
I believe but still die just like everyone else. We all lose so no one gains right?
Scenatio 2. There is a God and an afterlife
I believe and gain eternal life while those who don't believe don't. -
May I know who those non believers are? Non Christians? And what does this statement mean by this? Isnt such kind of statement tantamount to being divisive and deriding others?Originally posted by jzzy011561s:For me i believe in God because it is a win win situation.
Scenario 1. No God, no afterlife
I believe but still die just like everyone else. We all lose so no one gains right?
Scenatio 2. There is a God and an afterlife
I believe and gain eternal life while those who don't believe don't. -
I get what you mean now laurence. As M pointed out in another thread, we spread the gospel because of the Great Commission.
I agree with you that the best way to do this is through our lifestyle and not overtly trying to influence them directly (which puts some people off). And sometimes the extra effort gives the "we are superior" impression. Let me say that we shouldn't be doing this. Romans 3:12 tells us this. -
How, may I ask?Originally posted by sillyme:I agree with you that the best way to do this is through our lifestyle and not overtly trying to influence them directly (which puts some people off).
How do you use your lifestyle to convert strangers? I'm sure there're many good non-christians around anyway, so what makes your lifestyle shine over theirs, to warrant an interest in your faith? -
What are we saved from? We are saved from the fires of hell. Why would we be going there? Because we are all sinful and the wages of sin is death. One must realise that he is sinful and needs to be saved. Since we are all sinful, only God can save us. This is probably what ticks of most people, telling them that they are sinful.Originally posted by laurence82:The point is this.
If we feel we are saved, and we are happy about it, why cant we just talk about how we are saved, and feel blessed, and stop here?
so laurence82, do you believe this fact? Because this is the first acknowledgement we must make, we are sinful. Therefore when we believe in Christ, we gain salvation from our sins.
Granted, I feel that many Christians reached out a little to strongly. That's not right, accepting Christ should be done willingly. Perhaps what is absent nowadays is love. I qoute Corinthians 13:1-3
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames but have not love, I gain nothing. "
We need to love non-christians and help them in their needs, if they lack something we should give. We do this because we love them and through our actions we hope they can see Christ in us. This, laurence82 is what I believe you are trying to say?
However, ultimately, the acceptance of Christ must be the realisation of once sinful self and the need to be saved.
As for what I said, I was trying to tell Bontakun that since he wants to see for himself when he leave da mortal world if it is true or not, why not believe first, then see. It's no lost if I'm wrong or if I'm right.
If I sound deriding, I apologise, I meant no ill. -
The points I believe are
we are all sinful, that some or all of us are trying to find our own salvation. Individually, we are all going in different directions, even for those within the same belief, there are also factions, sects and denominations, from peaceful coexistence to the point of extreme contention.
Its true what some people said, if we believe in something, that belief must be superior for us, else how does one place hopes on it?
This is just one own thoughts and beliefs, which no one should dispute, unless such thoughts bring harm to others.
Its the actions of some which I am terribly annoyed at.
Its very good to share and hope to spread the gospels and teachings of one's beliefs, but it will be contentious if one put some actions forward, without thinking of the consequences of one words and actions, and cause nothing but conflicts.
Like I said, I once had two friends share with me their salvation and their personal relationship with Christ, and to add I sat with a Mormon in the MRT. Some dissuaded me from talking to him (we all the know the story), but I was happy all three shared their stories.
Consider this.
You found salvation in Christ, I am happy for you, You tell me that I am sinful. I accept that willingly. But if one says, we can only find redemption from sins in Christ, and I must accept such fate, we know God judge non believers rightly, non believers must be saved - its like firing the first cannon of war!
Sillyme has intended for this forum for believers to share the gospels, and to post quotes from the Bible.
What pissed me off is someone post a topic that might potentially open the path for conflicts, whether by Christians or non Christians alike.
Pardon, got typo