Downloading music is a sin. Agree or Disagree?
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Is downloading music from Kazaa or the likes a sin?
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is it stated in the bible???
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Mark 12:17
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
And they marveled at Him.
I think the verse answers clearly what to do.
I'm guilty of downloading stuff
. I try to keep everything legal where possible. Have already cut down any pirated stuff which I may have.
Is it a sin? I'm really not sure leh.. maybe it is.. if it hinders your walk with God.. it should be.. -
i dunno... however, i remember this illustration from a friend.. would Jesus be pleased if he (and he is) sees you downloading from KAzaa
tat was the illustration my friend gave me when i asked him abt cigarettes.. What bt cigarettes.. wad do u all thiink? -
what would jesus do?
why is smoking sin?
Jesus drinks.. i think he properbly smokes too anyway..
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The body is the temple for the Holy spirit, therefore destroying the body is destroying something God gave to you.
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yah .. but wahat abt alcohol.. Jesus drank wine.. anyway he's first miracle was turning water into wine.. i guess alcohol is fine.. just dun over indulge... as for the rest... how??
i guess not judging is better.. thts what we r thought also.. nt t judge
lol -
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m a pirate. =) anyone wants porn?
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Then Brad Pitt got sequel called 'eig8t, Return of the RIAA'.
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Originally posted by cool_ridge:Is downloading music from Kazaa or the likes a sin?Originally posted by marlboro:what would jesus do?
why is smoking sin?
Jesus drinks.. i think he properbly smokes too anyway..
There is a word that describes the act of taking something that does not rightfully belongs to you - it's call stealing. The fact that a piece of music (or data) is placed in the internet does not necessarily mean that the person placing it has the right to do so. Anyone following on and download this data is guilty of the same crime.Originally posted by cool_ridge:The body is the temple for the Holy spirit, therefore destroying the body is destroying something God gave to you.
Is drinking or smoking sinful? For that matter is eating char kway teow sinful? The point is: anything taken in excesses to a point of destroying God's temple is sinful. The critical issue is how dependant are we on our liquor or cigs. I do not personally smoke, but I drink quite a bit. However, I am neither an alcoholic nor am I addicted to it. I can drink continuously for weeks but I can abstain for months without any withdrawal symptoms. -
Did you know that the music industry used to charge $40+ for a music CD in the 80's and when tapes were around they were going for $20.
Do you know what ridiculous profit margins they were making? Cost of making a CD 20cents to $1. Profit margin is 4000% percent.
Thanks to piracy cost of original CDs cost less for music cds, to vcds, dvds, lds, computer cd-roms...
I say praise the Lord!
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Might as well say that a plate of rojak cost only 50c yet the hawker charges two bucks for it.Originally posted by :Did you know that the music industry used to charge $40+ for a music CD in the 80's and when tapes were around they were going for $20.
Do you know what ridiculous profit margins they were making? Cost of making a CD 20cents to $1. Profit margin is 4000% percent.
Thanks to piracy cost of original CDs cost less for music cds, to vcds, dvds, lds, computer cd-roms...
I say praise the Lord!
In any product life cycle, prices will tend to drop after a while, piracy or not! My first computer cost more than three grand, that's a lot of money 10 years ago. I can get one now for about half the price with infinitely more power.... and there is no piracy involved.
Production cost may be low, cost of each cd is only a couple of cents, but you need to factor in the cost of the song writer, singer, musician etc. It is a very naive approach to just look at the cost of BURNING A CD alone.
If I may ask you a question: would you beat and rob a rich guy because you think he does not deserve to be rich and then redistribute the wealth to the poor....?
A sin is a sin. Period.
Thou shall not steal. -
Hm... you did'nt understand the point... and you made horrible examples...Originally posted by Chin Eng:Might as well say that a plate of rojak cost only 50c yet the hawker charges two bucks for it. thats's 150% margin its fine, the music industry made 4000% profit margin! SEE THE DIFFERENCE, but yes the rojak can sell it at $10, people might still buy it or go to another hawker centre, but do you have a choice for music cds?
In any product life cycle, prices will tend to drop after a while, piracy or not! My first computer cost more than three grand, that's a lot of money 10 years ago. I can get one now for about half the price with infinitely more power.... and there is no piracy involved. Product life cycle, you seem to not know what that term means and mix it with other products. Yes computer X in 1994 was worth $3k thats ONE product, P4 3GHz is $2k thats a different product!!! Plus, its cheaper to produce a computer NOW and more competition, sooooo many factors!
Production cost may be low, cost of each cd is only a couple of cents, but you need to factor in the cost of the song writer, singer, musician etc. It is a very naive approach to just look at the cost of BURNING A CD alone. Yes that is the cost, thats because most singers earn royalties on the sales of CD, ie each CD sold they earn 5 cents. But, the amount that music industries pay to to the writer and singer and musician in the music industry is still peanuts, really peanuts!!!
If I may ask you a question: would you beat and rob a rich guy because you think he does not deserve to be rich and then redistribute the wealth to the poor....? Thats Robin Hood, he was eulogize for doing that!
A sin is a sin. Period.
Thou shall not steal. There's such things as ethical hacking and non-ethical hacking...
Please read why hackers decided to break computer codes and provide shareware... they helped out with piracy as well... But, yes I do agree its a crime and a sin, but you should know why they did it and the benefit.
its the same as what Windows has a monopoly over the OS. And what they have done to allow users to make use of only windows multimedia, outlook etc... thus dominating the whole the OS plus support systems. Microsoft recently lost the anti-trust suit and has to pay Europe $1 Billion, which is still peanuts for them. haha....
My question to you; do you think its alright for 'them' to charge you exorbitant prices just cause they can.
What I am posing is the consumer end. Is it fair for producer of goods to charge exorbitant prices?
Please do not berate one's knowledge. But, yes you do know one marketing term that is product life cycle but you got it confused. -
Might as well say that a plate of rojak cost only 50c yet the hawker charges two bucks for it. thats's 150% margin its fine, the music industry made 4000% profit margin! SEE THE DIFFERENCE, but yes the rojak can sell it at $10, people might still buy it or go to another hawker centre, but do you have a choice for music cds?
Err.. you mean someone had forced you to buy CDs???? Like, don't listen will die???
In any product life cycle, prices will tend to drop after a while, piracy or not! My first computer cost more than three grand, that's a lot of money 10 years ago. I can get one now for about half the price with infinitely more power.... and there is no piracy involved. Product life cycle, you seem to not know what that term means and mix it with other products. Yes computer X in 1994 was worth $3k thats ONE product, P4 3GHz is $2k thats a different product!!! Plus, its cheaper to produce a computer NOW and more competition, sooooo many factors!
So right, so many factors, so piracy is not the only reason why CD is cheaper. Those involved in piracy is just attempting to justify your act by making a ludicrious excuse that they (you) are doing the world a favour
Production cost may be low, cost of each cd is only a couple of cents, but you need to factor in the cost of the song writer, singer, musician etc. It is a very naive approach to just look at the cost of BURNING A CD alone. Yes that is the cost, thats because most singers earn royalties on the sales of CD, ie each CD sold they earn 5 cents. But, the amount that music industries pay to to the writer and singer and musician in the music industry is still peanuts, really peanuts!!!
So going back to my first point, if you think that a CD is too expensive, don't buy. Stealing is still stealing.
If I may ask you a question: would you beat and rob a rich guy because you think he does not deserve to be rich and then redistribute the wealth to the poor....? Thats Robin Hood, he was eulogize for doing that!
Emmm... Robin Hood, the folk hero, is a work of fiction or didn't you realise it.
A sin is a sin. Period.
Thou shall not steal. There's such things as ethical hacking and non-ethical hacking...
Yeah, there are vigilantes too, a noble cause, wrong nonetheless
Please read why hackers decided to break computer codes and provide shareware... they helped out with piracy as well... But, yes I do agree its a crime and a sin, but you should know why they did it and the benefit.
Hm... you did'nt understand the point... and you made horrible examples...
its the same as what Windows has a monopoly over the OS. And what they have done to allow users to make use of only windows multimedia, outlook etc... thus dominating the whole the OS plus support systems. Microsoft recently lost the anti-trust suit and has to pay Europe $1 Billion, which is still peanuts for them. haha....
You can always switch to Mac. Point is, if you make a product you do want to lock in the technology to ensure that you maximise the profit. Wouldn't you do that assuming you've invented a winner? Not saying Bill Gates is right, he is just thinking a like a shrewd business man.
My question to you; do you think its alright for 'them' to charge you exorbitant prices just cause they can.
You know, I agree with you here. I don't see why class 1 performers have to charge close to two hundred bucks for the top seats for the concerts, I think that should do it for the sake of love of music so everyone can enjoy it. Can't afford to seem them, so I don't go. I don't buy the cheaper tickets 'cos I can't see them too well. I also don't think Coke should hold on to the monopoly of the formula to the world famous drink either. They should make the formula available on the internet so that we can make our own Coca Cola. Don't you think so?[b]
What I am posing is the consumer end. Is it fair for producer of goods to charge exorbitant prices?
[b]No it's not fair, but two wrongs do not make it right.
Please do not berate one's knowledge. But, yes you do know one marketing term that is product life cycle but you got it confused.
I am grateful to you for your very enlightening note. I have learned so much of your lack of moral fibre. -
Thanks to for pointing out that I am confused over the term "product life cycle" or PLC, I did a search in the net and found a wonderful site that describes what PLC is: http://www.tolearn.net/marketing/plc.htm.
In a very quick summary, profit increases during the Market Growth stage and declines at Market Maturity stage. Basically it means that once a product reaches maturity the selling price goes down but with possibly more features. A music CD a few years ago contains less data and depending on where it was mastered can cost as much as $40. A music CD nowadays can be in HDCD format which holds more data and cost less than $18. It can even be cheaper if the songs are not too current.
I reiterate that piracy may not be only factor that drives the cost of CD down, lest any "pirates" out there takes pride in seeing themself as the reason for this market behaviour.
Anyone out there claiming to love the Lord, please firstly recognise the command "Thou shall not steal". Downloading music that is not explicitly stated that it is free, is stealing. Don't attempt to justify your weak stand by claiming to be doing the world a favour. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Let me riterate myself, stealing and piracy go hand in hand. Agreed. So stop talking about it being bad, yes its bad!
Thanks to [b] for pointing out that I am confused over the term "product life cycle" or PLC, I did a search in the net and found a wonderful site that describes what PLC is: http://www.tolearn.net/marketing/plc.htm.
In a very quick summary, profit increases during the Market Growth stage and declines at Market Maturity stage. Basically it means that once a product reaches maturity the selling price goes down but with possibly more features. A music CD a few years ago contains less data and depending on where it was mastered can cost as much as $40. A music CD nowadays can be in HDCD format which holds more data and cost less than $18. It can even be cheaper if the songs are not too current.
Anyone out there claiming to love the Lord, please firstly recognise the command "Thou shall not steal". Downloading music that is not explicitly stated that it is free, is stealing. Don't attempt to justify your weak stand by claiming to be doing the world a favour.[/b]
What you do not see is what producers are doing to make it disadvantageous for us end consumers. That is what the music industry has done in the past, with TAPES, RECORDS, LD(recent but was a flop anyways)...
Alright, FOR EXAMPLE, there are quite a number of rock groups, bands, singers, famous, infamous... who agreed to giving their music free to their fans on the internet FOC! How do they get revenue? By letting people hear their musc, they become fans, they want to go to their concerts and when they go on road shows, they get more fans to go!
Go read what they say and why they are giving it to them for free? Simple reason, money.I reiterate that piracy may not be only factor that drives the cost of CD down, lest any "pirates" out there takes pride in seeing themself as the reason for this market behaviour.
Do some research on how piracy has affected music CDs, VCDs and DVD prices. If you recall when VCD first came out, how much was it? How much was it when piracy came about and how much is it now? The cost of production for pirates is FAR MORE expensive than industry standards, so the cost is still lower! Why did the price go down? There's tons of articles out there, please read if you're interested!
Good debate.
Have a good weekend! -
Originally posted by :Let me riterate myself, stealing and piracy go hand in hand. Agreed. So stop talking about it being bad, yes its bad!
Yup, right on, at least agree on ONE point.
Correct, the crux of the matter is they "agreed to giving their music free". For whatever reason, love of money, love of fans etc, permission is granted, as opposed from permission NOT GRANTED.Originally posted by :What you do not see is what producers are doing to make it disadvantageous for us end consumers. That is what the music industry has done in the past, with TAPES, RECORDS, LD(recent but was a flop anyways)...
Alright, FOR EXAMPLE, there are quite a number of rock groups, bands, singers, famous, infamous... who agreed to giving their music free to their fans on the internet FOC! How do they get revenue? By letting people hear their musc, they become fans, they want to go to their concerts and when they go on road shows, they get more fans to go!
Go read what they say and why they are giving it to them for free? Simple reason, money.
[/b][/quote]
Do some research on how piracy has affected music CDs, VCDs and DVD prices. If you recall when VCD first came out, how much was it? How much was it when piracy came about and how much is it now? The cost of production for pirates is FAR MORE expensive than industry standards, so the cost is still lower! Why did the price go down? There's tons of articles out there, please read if you're interested! [/b][/quote]
I never said that piracy DID NOT bring down the price of CD, I said that it is NOT THE ONLY REASON that prices of CD has gone down. And whoever that is engaged in piracy should not pretend that they were the only reason to do so and claim whatever perceived God-given right to do this.
Do bear in mind the topic is: Is downloading music a sin? Obviously if the music performer did not give express right for the music to be downloaded then it is a crime, and if vice-versa, musician (copyright owner) says it's ok then it is NOT a crime.
Good debate. Yup, good debate
Have a good weekend! You too -
No offense but who in the name determines what stuff belongs to who? And someone determines that, then who determines for him or he can just grabs what he wants cos his word is gold?Originally posted by sillyme:Mark 12:17
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
And they marveled at Him.
I think the verse answers clearly what to do.
I'm guilty of downloading stuff. I try to keep everything legal where possible. Have already cut down any pirated stuff which I may have.
Is it a sin? I'm really not sure leh.. maybe it is.. if it hinders your walk with God.. it should be..
The only reason i can think of is try to get what you want and if you failed, you either can stop or try again until you know whether it does belongs to you or not. Simple???
Of course time is another factor here. -
Commiting a sin by downloading music but for those who jack up the price of music does not consider a sin. Talk about greed. Music is so profitable that's why so many people jumping onto bandwagon to become singers or performers.
That's one of the reason why the rich & poor gap is widening further.
Wonder when is the breaking point. -
well.. i dunno whether its a sin.. but i still do it. sorry to say la, but i tink the price of original cds are unreasonable. 20 bucks is way over the top.. perhaps if dey lower the price den i'll consider getting original stuff, but for now, piracy rules!!
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check the profit margin will ya?
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Well, the topic here is about downloading music. I assume we are talking about music available in CDs, tapes and any other media by purchase.Originally posted by acidwolf:No offense but who in the name determines what stuff belongs to who? And someone determines that, then who determines for him or he can just grabs what he wants cos his word is gold?
The only reason i can think of is try to get what you want and if you failed, you either can stop or try again until you know whether it does belongs to you or not. Simple???
Of course time is another factor here.
I'm not familiar with the music industry. But I think writers and music producers copyright their music. So by copyright laws, it belongs to them right? -
Originally posted by acidwolf:No offense but who in the name determines what stuff belongs to who? And someone determines that, then who determines for him or he can just grabs what he wants cos his word is gold?
The only reason i can think of is try to get what you want and if you failed, you either can stop or try again until you know whether it does belongs to you or not. Simple???
Of course time is another factor here.Originally posted by sillyme:Well, the topic here is about downloading music. I assume we are talking about music available in CDs, tapes and any other media by purchase.
I'm not familiar with the music industry. But I think writers and music producers copyright their music. So by copyright laws, it belongs to them right?
There are copyright laws. Meaning someone is deemed by law that he has ownership to the said music or literary works. Translated in real terms, for example, no one may produce a Lord of the Rings movie without having to pay the estate of JRR Tolkien (or whoever owns the copyright of this title - might be New Line Movies) an arm and leg for the right of production.
Let's look at another example, when you go to a studio photographer to have your photo taken (ie graduation, wedding etc), your right is only to the prints, you do not get the negative unless specifically stated in the contract. Is this fair? To me, it is not, but that is the rule of copyright.
Another example, you may not copy the entire content off a webpage without express permission from the owner of that site, but you may quote the site address.
One interesting point of argument that has emerged is the concept of "fairness". Just because a product owner is deemed to have overcharged their product should not be the reason to why we should break the law. Like I said before, two wrongs do not make it right.
To those who are of the opinion that overcharged CDs gave you the right to download illegally and had quoted articles that supports this stand, please also on the same note, read up about copyright laws. Please attempt to understand copyright laws first before you continue to download. To Christians reading this, please recognise that downloading without an expressed permission IS STEALING. -
ok. time to stop what is not right.