A few questions from a free thinker
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1) Seeing isn't believing. you see the work of His hands, miracles, healing, and even ressurections. but u dun believe the source. the isrealites also saw God's power, but they still rebelled and sinned against God.Originally posted by cooleo:Hi i am a free thinker and i have a few questions that i wish to ask all Christians. These questions are not meant to be offensive, but are asked because i am puzzled by them.
1) Why do people believe in God even though they have not seen him? After all seeing is believing.
2) There is no mention of who created God or where he came from. So who created God?
3) Why do Christians think it is alright to ask other people to convert from their religions to Christianity?
4) If a person converts to Christianity, he/she will go to heaven? Hm...doesn't that encourage many people to convert at the very last min?
5) Why did Jesus show his face freely in the past as mentioned in the bible, but not now?
you may see your lover, but you also sometimes take her/him for granted tio bo?
thats what it takes faith, not blind faith. faith backed up with facts.
2) We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.
3) i don't know and i don't care abt other ppl. for me, i share what i believe to be good. its like i stumbled upon a cave of gold, and there is enough gold for everyone. and i really do want to share it out. i can't be bothered to share with a person who has no respect for what i say, its just a waste of time. if you refuse, its ok with me. but i share, is because i care. and i know whats going on. the end is coming, and the there are many signs. one of which is plague. just look at the past 10 years. and look and the new desease just suddenly sprung up. its all predicted by Jesus 2000 years ago. its still your choice. but truth is truth. unless u can tell me why i shouldn't believe in the truth?
4) heh. how many ppl just suddenly die like that, a snap of a finger, just suddenly keena run down by a bus, or heart attack. there is no such thing as last minute. for all u know.. u might die tonight. who can tell when they will die, and be prepared to receive? God is not a brainless twit. He cannot be taken advantaged of.
5) You sure want to see Jesus? let me ask u something. how prepared are you to see Jesus? cause if you see Him, it might be too late for you. even myself i dun dare to say i want to see Him. -
1. Is seeing really believing? Certainly not. Most of the time, when we see something, we assume something and then we believe it. Its like when we see Guy A lying on the ground with a stab wound and Guy B with a knife in his hand beside Guy A, we assume that Guy B stabbed him. The saying that "Seeing is believing" is a sweeping statement. It should never be used in ALL situations, shouldnt it?Originally posted by cooleo:Hi i am a free thinker and i have a few questions that i wish to ask all Christians. These questions are not meant to be offensive, but are asked because i am puzzled by them.
1) Why do people believe in God even though they have not seen him? After all seeing is believing.
2) There is no mention of who created God or where he came from. So who created God?
3) Why do Christians think it is alright to ask other people to convert from their religions to Christianity?
4) If a person converts to Christianity, he/she will go to heaven? Hm...doesn't that encourage many people to convert at the very last min?
5) Why did Jesus show his face freely in the past as mentioned in the bible, but not now?
Would really seeing Jesus make you believe? I do not think so. Just like in Luke 16
"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' " 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Even if Jesus were to appear right before everyone, would everyone believe immediately? There would still be people who doubt and question. Isnt it the same now? And its not just non christians who doubted, even believers during Jesus was on earth DOUBTED when HE appeared. Luke 24 highlights an instance where 2 of his disciples could not recognise Him in verses 13-18. Then later in verses 38 onwards,
"While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence."
Is SEEING REALLY BELIEVING? The bible told us NO. [color=red]
2. When we use the world God, most dictionaries would give the meaning as "creator of universe". To explain that God is uncreated, it is not easy. But in short, if GOD is the creator of the 'UNIVERSE' which in broad, matter and space, we have to believe that God created time because even EINSTEIN in his general relativity links time to matter and space. A God who created space, time and matter are not restricted by them. How then can He be created? I would find it incredible if anyone chooses to believe otherwise, but well its personal.
3. Why isnt it alright? Firstly I would have to clarify that it is the commands of GOD in the bible for us to bring His word to the ends of the earth. However, I think you may have meant that when christians FORCED it down people's throats without regards to their feelings. This I have nothing to say and I admit that this is a major fault that christians have. But then, who is perfect? Not even christians. We must also be clear about the fact that just because some christians are no good, it does not mean the GOD or JESUS is no good.
4. Jesus only appeared for around 33 years on earth. Can we say that He showed His face 'freely' ? 33 years is hardly FREELY considering how many thousands years the earth and us existed. -
I have an honest question and so far, different people spoke different school of thoughts to me. But since this topic is being brought up, probably one of you people can enlighten me about this?
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It is said in the bible that you can only go heaven, provided you have been a good christian, and if you accepted God into your life.
Since Christian do not believe in the existence of reincarnation. Then when you die, either you enter heaven or go hell. (Because you can't be reincarnated and there is only two possible place you could go)
Then for example if Mother Teresa wasn't a Christian and she still did all the good work and deeds in her time. When she dies, because she wasn't a christian and didn't accept God into her life - so during judgement, she will enter hell?
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Cheers -
Firstly, what you say about Heaven and Hell, yes thats what the bible says and I believe it.Originally posted by Yunhaier: I have an honest question and so far, different people spoke different school of thoughts to me. But since this topic is being brought up, probably one of you people can enlighten me about this?
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It is said in the bible that you can only go heaven, provided you have been a good christian, and if you accepted God into your life.
Since Christian do not believe in the existence of reincarnation. Then when you die, either you enter heaven or go hell. (Because you can't be reincarnated and there is only two possible place you could go)
Then for example if Mother Teresa wasn't a Christian and she still did all the good work and deeds in her time. When she dies, because she wasn't a christian and didn't accept God into her life - so during judgement, she will enter hell?
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Cheers
Secondly, we need to understand that the word 'CHRISTIAN' is too loosely used nowadays. 'CHRISTIAN' is like a word you write in the application form under 'RELIGION' column. I sometimes do not call myself a 'CHRISTIAN', I tell people I am a 'believer in God and Jesus Christ." Thus, we must first understand that what Jesus Christi preached is not an 'ELITIST' faith but He is presenting what HE PREACHES, 'Believe in Me or else you go to hell." Sounds harsh but truth can be harsh, isnt it?
Thus, coming to understand that CHRISTIANITY is not about buying an entry to heaven but that CHRISTIANITY preaches that the ONLY WAY for us to enter the kingdom of GOd is to BELIEVE in GOD and acknowledge JESUS as Savior and LORD. When this is preached, thus it becomes authority. WHOEVER IT IS, whatever YOU MAY HAVE DONE, as long you do not fulfil this condition laid down, you do not enter the kingdom of God.
As for MOTHER THERESA, she can call herself CATHOLIC or whatever, it is just a name. But we cannot say that just because she is CATHOLIC, we can so sure that she did not put her trust in GOD because if she Did, she is going to heaven for sure. But not because of WHAT SHE DONE (though what she done is all good), but because she BELIEVED in GOD. -
Originally posted by gasband:Firstly, what you say about Heaven and Hell, yes thats what the bible says and I believe it.
Secondly, we need to understand that the word 'CHRISTIAN' is too loosely used nowadays. 'CHRISTIAN' is like a word you write in the application form under 'RELIGION' column. I sometimes do not call myself a 'CHRISTIAN', I tell people I am a 'believer in God and Jesus Christ." Thus, we must first understand that what Jesus Christi preached is not an 'ELITIST' faith but He is presenting what HE PREACHES, 'Believe in Me or else you go to hell." Sounds harsh but truth can be harsh, isnt it?
Thus, coming to understand that CHRISTIANITY is not about buying an entry to heaven but that CHRISTIANITY preaches that the ONLY WAY for us to enter the kingdom of GOd is to BELIEVE in GOD and acknowledge JESUS as Savior and LORD. When this is preached, thus it becomes authority. WHOEVER IT IS, whatever YOU MAY HAVE DONE, as long you do not fulfil this condition laid down, you do not enter the kingdom of God.
As for MOTHER THERESA, she can call herself CATHOLIC or whatever, it is just a name. But we cannot say that just because she is CATHOLIC, we can so sure that she did not put her trust in GOD because if she Did, she is going to heaven for sure. But not because of WHAT SHE DONE (though what she done is all good), but because she BELIEVED in GOD. So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
Cheers -
hihi... i'm not a pastor nor a super duper stero typed kind of believer. but i just want to share just my personal thoughts, hope it helps
1) Why do people believe in God even though they have not seen him? After all seeing is believing.
there are many things in life that are not seen but people believe in them. example: air. i don't see air but i know there is air becos i experience the movement of my lungs, the breeze that passes me and the fact that if my lungs stop moving, i turn purple.
i've personally experienced many things in my life that i credit it to God cos there is absolutely no other way to explain them. they are not earth shattering experiences but just little stuff that happens that reminds me that my God is there. a little too long to share everything here if u wanna know u can PM me
2) There is no mention of who created God or where he came from. So who created God?
my answer is the same as sillyme's. no one created God, he has always been around.
3) Why do Christians think it is alright to ask other people to convert from their religions to Christianity?
personally, i have done wat some call "street-witnessing" which means going up to strangers and talking to them about God and also trying to talk to loved ones about my God. the reason why i did that was not becos i want to force pple to accept a religion but becos i believe i want to share with others something that has been good in my life.
it is as simple as this: i have a wonderful cheesecake that i absolutely love and i want to share it with those around me, especially those i love. not becos i want to force them to eat cheesecake, but becos i hope they will also experience the yumminess of the cheesecake. if they don't like cheesecake, then i will not force it upon them and respect their decision, but if they do like cheesecake, then i'm happy that they are also happy
4) If a person converts to Christianity, he/she will go to heaven? Hm...doesn't that encourage many people to convert at the very last min?
erhmz.. wat is defined as convert to christianity? seriously i got no idea lah...
for me all i know is i believe Chirst die on the cross for me, he rose from the dead, he is the only God.
well, last min or first min, to me it does not really matter when, it is does he or does he not. of cos if someone believes in chirst and lives a life according to God's will, his life would be very different (and i know it would be different in a good way, too long to explain here). but if someone decides to only believe in Christ only at his very last breathe, then i would rejoice too.
back to cheesecake, if my loved one decides only at his deathbed he wants to try the cheesecake that i love, i would gladly offer it to him. if he likes it and is happy, i am still happy for him loh. the only difference is that he could have had enjoyed many cheesecakes if only he tried it earlier.
5) Why did Jesus show his face freely in the past as mentioned in the bible, but not now?
my answer same as sillyme's -
Just some points to consider.Originally posted by Yunhaier: So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
Cheers
1) Is it easier to do good or believe in God?
2) If a god goes against his word, do we still want to acknowledge his godly status?
God has made it 'easy' to approach. Just believe and accept. I said it's 'easy' because it's not as easy as it appears because loving Him would require certain sacrifices in our life choices.
Though it's a noble thing to do good. God did say that there's no other way but to submit our lives to Him. It's something that is hard to swallow, but it is such. But ultimately, and I say it again, it's your choice to accept it or not -
Originally posted by sillyme:Just some points to consider.
1) Is it easier to do good or believe in God?
2) If a god goes against his word, do we still want to acknowledge his godly status?
God has made it 'easy' to approach. Just believe and accept. I said it's 'easy' because it's not as easy as it appears because loving Him would require certain sacrifices in our life choices.
Though it's a noble thing to do good. God did say that there's no other way but to submit our lives to Him. It's something that is hard to swallow, but it is such. But ultimately, and I say it again, it's your choice to accept it or not You people never answer my question leh: So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
What if she never had a chance to learn about God? Nobody came and told her about God. Would it be fair? To dump a good soul who did extra-ordinary good deeds into hell?
Ignorant is innocent?
Cheers -
erhmz... wat is your defination of christian? the word christian really used to vaguely these days.Originally posted by Yunhaier: So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
Cheers
anyway this is my personal belief: good works does not get you to heaven. only believing and giving your life to Christ does. what ever good i do is becos of my belief in Christ. (and whatever bad i do is becos i am still human and nothing good abides in my flesh loh). -
Originally posted by Yunhaier:
My answer say liao mah.. There's no other way but to believe in Him (tough right?). You people never answer my question leh: [b]So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
What if she never had a chance to learn about God? Nobody came and told her about God. Would it be fair? To dump a good soul who did extra-ordinary good deeds into hell?
Ignorant is innocent?
Cheers[/b]
But then if they had no chance to hear about Him.. this one, i really don't know ah.. -
where's that free thinker.. if he want to find out stuff. he should be actively participating in the discussion
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sorry forget to answer question.. the answer is yah loh.. if she does not believe in christ as the only way, then yah.. she is going downOriginally posted by the_don:erhmz... wat is your defination of christian? the word christian really used to vaguely these days.
anyway this is my personal belief: good works does not get you to heaven. only believing and giving your life to Christ does. what ever good i do is becos of my belief in Christ. (and whatever bad i do is becos i am still human and nothing good abides in my flesh loh). -
maybe he logged in during work mah..Originally posted by dumbdumb!:where's that free thinker.. if he want to find out stuff. he should be actively participating in the discussion
forums don't require fast responses... you only see this in sgforums
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No lar, my definition is accepting God into your life and acknowledging him as your God and Saviour.Originally posted by the_don:erhmz... wat is your defination of christian? the word christian really used to vaguely these days.
anyway this is my personal belief: good works does not get you to heaven. only believing and giving your life to Christ does. what ever good i do is becos of my belief in Christ. (and whatever bad i do is becos i am still human and nothing good abides in my flesh loh).
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Originally posted by sillyme:My answer say liao mah.. There's no other way but to believe in Him (tough right?).
But then if they had no chance to hear about Him.. this one, i really don't know ah..
Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization?Originally posted by the_don:sorry forget to answer question.. the answer is yah loh.. if she does not believe in christ as the only way, then yah.. she is going down -
people? as in christians?Originally posted by Yunhaier:Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization? -
Originally posted by sillyme:people? as in christians? No. People in general.
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oh.. u mean acknowledging and accepting Christ as the only way and only God ah?Originally posted by Yunhaier:No lar, my definition is accepting God into your life and acknowledging him as your God and Saviour.
okie dokie -
i can't answer for them.. cos each have different reasons right?Originally posted by Yunhaier: No. People in general.
some do it to feel good.
some do it to make a difference.
some to atone for bad things they committed.
the list can go on and on -
i guess many pple do that for various reason. some noble - "i wanna contribute to society and make someone happy", some with hidden intend - "i donate XYZZYX amount to abc charity", then thinking about the publicity for himself. some do it cos it makes them feel good. some do it cos they think it makes them less guilty about the 'bad' stuff they do....Originally posted by Yunhaier:Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization?
as for me, if i do a so called "good deed", it's just simply becos i want to do it. -
Originally posted by Yunhaier:
I think I already made it clear that the bible says anyone who does not believe in Jesus goes to hell. Yes, so if Mother Theresa REALLY did not believe in Jesus as SAvior and Lord, yes she is going to hell. You people never answer my question leh: [b]So under my frictional scenario of her not being a christian, thus don't believe in God - irregardless of what good she has done in her life, she will enter hell?
What if she never had a chance to learn about God? Nobody came and told her about God. Would it be fair? To dump a good soul who did extra-ordinary good deeds into hell?
Ignorant is innocent?
Cheers[/b]
I think it would be unfair to ask so many 'WHAT IF'. WHAT IF she has had heard but refused to believe? WHAT IF she had heard but she did not understand? WHAT IF? I believe, you of all people, should know that, 'WHAT IFs' are never gonna be answered adequately, because I can ask a 'WHAT IF' to practically EVERYTHING in this world. And in this case, Mother Theresa is a Catholic, she has more than enough access to the scriptures and bible.
Ignorance is not innocence. Try telling the judge that you did not know that you are committing a crime. They would not judge you not guilty just because you DID NOT KNOW there is such a law. And again when people asked me what if these people never heard of Christ? I would asked, how do you know? -
don't know leh.. i guess everyone got their own reason bahOriginally posted by Yunhaier:Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization?
for me if doing something "good" makes a person's life a little happier and yet doing that something does not go again my belief or kill me, then why not??? -
For such a question to be taken into context, I must assume that you believe in the doctrine of Christianity, because if you do not, then it doesnt matter to you anyway, does it?Originally posted by Yunhaier:Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization?
This question seems to suggest that people do good deeds to gain something for themselves. I would think that this is unfair to people for who are sincere in doing good deeds. People do good deeds not to go heaven, not to become rich, not to be famous. If they do it for those reasons, then they might as well not do them. And if it sounds unbelievable, yes there are people who do good deeds because they are happy to see others happy. If that is self actualization, yes people do good deeds not just always for a tangible gain. -
Originally posted by gasband:For such a question to be taken into context, I must assume that you believe in the doctrine of Christianity, because if you do not, then it doesnt matter to you anyway, does it?
This question seems to suggest that people do good deeds to gain something for themselves. I would think that this is unfair to people for who are sincere in doing good deeds. People do good deeds not to go heaven, not to become rich, not to be famous. If they do it for those reasons, then they might as well not do them. And if it sounds unbelievable, yes there are people who do good deeds because they are happy to see others happy. If that is self actualization, yes people do good deeds not just always for a tangible gain. Yup, people who does good deeds never require a tangible return. It's the intangible experience that makes them feel good.
How about this: A christian who accepted God as their God and saviour - but doesn't lead a good christian's life. Probably sin knowing and consciously?
Cheers -
Originally posted by Yunhaier:
zhi fa fan fa.. wouldn't it be like a corrupt police? Yup, people who does good deeds never require a tangible return. It's the intangible experience that makes them feel good.
How about this: A christian who accepted God as their God and saviour - but doesn't lead a good christian's life. Probably sin [b]knowing and consciously?
Cheers[/b]
like i mentiond before in this thread.. faith without deeds is dead faith.. we can know all about God but not love Him, then our knowledge of Him is useless.. and if we love Him, we will live a life that is glorifying to Him