Speaking in tongues
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Right on Mod. SIS at it again.... which is why I refuse to comment on his current posting.Originally posted by M:Hi SIS, so that's what you know about bibilcal tongues, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. While generously sharing with us your sentiments, I'd like to politely urge you to exercise restraint and respect, even if you cannot agree with or fathom the subject. I believe you are rational enough to comprehend this, and leash up your proclivity to ridicule.
The posting guidelines shall be ready to assist all soon. I may not have the time for lengthy exchanges / posts, but I'll avail myself to keep this ground hospitable. Thank you for your understanding.
I don't speak in tongues personally and I have been a Christian for at least 24 years.Originally posted by lork:Anyone wanna share how to achieve it or receive it? Somebody??
It normally happens in Pentecostal or Charismatic church. Pentecostal is a denomination, charismatic is a practice within established denominations. Usually it involves asking the Holy Spirit to enter and allow the Holy Spirit to use the human body as a vessel of praise and prophecy.
Problem is the over-emphasis of this one gift while there are other spiritual gifts. To add to the problem, there is no way to prove the authenticity and maturity of the speaker.
Even the Apostle Paul says don't bother with it..... so maybe we should just leave it alone. -
I don't want. Even if i want it, God forbids because in the Scriptures it says that tongues have ceased. I have the Word of God, i dun need tongues. I have the prompting of the Holy Spirit that help me to grow in the Lord and bear the fruits of the Spirit.Originally posted by Icemoon:If that is a gift, it should be given by G-d, how can you ask for it?
But I think god biased lah. He enjoys communicating with charismatic pastors and their followers. Speaks with the pastor regularly ("yesterday the Lord told me, revealed to me blah blah ...") and blesses the followers with the gift of the tongue.
Think staunch protestants like fandango want also cannot get ... but the amateur christian in charismatic church has tongue that flows like river .. haiz
God is not biased. If you say that the god that speaks to the charismatic pastors and followers is the Christian God, I suggest you study the Scriptures again to see if thats God or the devil.
By saying that the charismatic pastors and followers recieves messages, signs from God in these days, it means that they are prophets and apostles (because God only speaks and reveal prophesies to prophets and apostles). Right? Prophets in these days? Nope, they are the false prophets.
Some charismatic says that tongues are angelic languages. Can someone enlighten me why do you need to speak in angelic languages when God can hear my prayer be it i pray in English or Chinese? Are you praying to God or are you praying to the angels? Think about it. Please provide scripture proofs.
Even angels speak to us in human language, consider Gabriel and the angel at the tomb. -
i seem to have a phobia of speaking in tongue.. though i know the ability is God-given, but one of the church i attended in singapore last time actually taught us that everyone who attends that church will be able to speak in tongue, and the first time i was there, i was forced to practice some nonsense for a whole hour to force my ability out..when it's pretty obvious that i don't have it
ironically..i'm attending that same church here in oz..but thankfully they dun have the assumption that everyone can speak in tongue, but they are rather drama in the praise and worship..jumping up and down, dancing, crying, machiam rock concert..lol
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Hey Devon which church u attend in OZ?
Why i'm curious is because when the pastor or cell leader praying, everybody seems to break into tongues and I don't what I should do cause I have not receive the gift yet and all i did was to keep silent,
It seems like people around you are uttering and kinda hard for you to follow the other people.
So what should we do when the pastor is praying with the church? Keep silent? -
i'm attending Hope Brisbane. =)Originally posted by lork:Hey Devon which church u attend in OZ?
Why i'm curious is because when the pastor or cell leader praying, everybody seems to break into tongues and I don't what I should do cause I have not receive the gift yet and all i did was to keep silent,
It seems like people around you are uttering and kinda hard for you to follow the other people.
So what should we do when the pastor is praying with the church? Keep silent?
yeah..usually when the pastor is praying..i just keep silent and listen, usually trying to ignore the pple around. -
God is not biased. If you say that the god that speaks to the charismatic pastors and followers is the Christian God, I suggest you study the Scriptures again to see if thats God or the devil.
Not I say one ... is the pastor claim one .. true or not only he will know mah. I'm just highlighting the fact the pastor ministering a big church can say such thing and many [working and educated professionals] seems to believe him. Oh well ...
Some charismatic says that tongues are angelic languages. Can someone enlighten me why do you need to speak in angelic languages when God can hear my prayer be it i pray in English or Chinese?
I heard the preaching before. We were told an incident when this fella in a car driving, he prayed to god ... then got two evil spirits at his left and right shoulder bothering him ... but when he prayed in tongues, they disappeared. I can't really remember the incident, maybe others who heard before and elaborate?
Even angels speak to us in human language, consider Gabriel and the angel at the tomb.
Of course. Charismatics also agree with Saint Paul no point preaching in tongues if congregation tia bo. -
I remember when that happened to me, I just prayed silently on my own. Is there a need to follow in that scenario?Originally posted by lork:Hey Devon which church u attend in OZ?
Why i'm curious is because when the pastor or cell leader praying, everybody seems to break into tongues and I don't what I should do cause I have not receive the gift yet and all i did was to keep silent,
It seems like people around you are uttering and kinda hard for you to follow the other people.
So what should we do when the pastor is praying with the church? Keep silent?
Have you looked inside the BIble and read what it says about tongues? If you have not (or you can do with a refresher), take time to cover the books of Acts, Romans, 1st Corinthians, Jude and the Gospel of Mark.
As you read, note in particular the chapters of the books listed beneath. I may have missed some out some notes, do feel free to add. If you can, look up background of the different epistles to have a better grasp of the context.- Acts 2, 10 & 19
Romans 8
1st Corinthians 12 to 14
Jude 1
Mark 16 -
Well, why is it when someone utter out some strange sounds r considered "tongue" and is considered holy ? If such incidents happened at Macdonald or some other public places, the people will be thinking tat u r crazy. I mean, even monkeys or animals know how to grunt or groan... How do u know it is not just ignorance utterance of "voices from devils" or something and it must be something "divine" ? I suggested some test to find out the reliability of the "interpreter". Wat is wrong with it ? If it really is true about tongue and the reliability of interpreter, then the interpreter should pass it with flying colour right ? Wat is the guidelines or criteria in choosing the "interpreter" anyway ?
So wat r u going to do ? Try to cover your ears and refuse to think "along" this line ? Trying to come up with "guidelines" to censored off different opinions ? Heard of the emperor's new clothes ? If some church says tat speaking glibberish is consider receiving "gifts" from holy spirits, it will be of no surprise tat suddenly scores of christians "claims" they can talk in "tongue". Otherwise why certain church have more "tonguer" than others ? Why do some period of history had more "tonguer" than others ? Is tis a christian propanganda ? -
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. - 1 Corinthians 13:1
Let us not forget that the one of the purpose of tongues is an expression of love to God.
Of course if we "grunt and moan" in public, we're no more than a modern pharisee. It's not what we do that makes us holy, and nor do we need to show anyone we are holy. It's our personal relationship with God that is important. You can speak or pray in whatever language you want, as long as you pray with a seeking heart, God will hear and He will shall surely answer. -
Let us not forget that the one of the purpose of tongues is an expression of love to God.
Is it ? Seems to me from the replies tat some of the people treat speaking in "tongues" like a medal and seems to desire to "abtain" such higher level of... well... "abtainment". BTW: I mention places like Macdonald etc not because I saw such behaviors there but because in society these behaviors is just... queer and funny....
Of course if we "grunt and moan" in public, we're no more than a modern pharisee. It's not what we do that makes us holy, and nor do we need to show anyone we are holy. It's our personal relationship with God that is important. You can speak or pray in whatever language you want, as long as you pray with a seeking heart, God will hear and He will shall surely answer.
If u talk about "personal relationship", it seems tat some church have people "grunting and groaning" in front of everyone in the church making other members relatively amused and uncomfortable. I can imagine myself for tat too if suddenly a lot of people broke up into mumbo jumbo when attending a lecture. If u ask me, it seems to have decayed till speaking in tongues is nothing but some form of "bragging" because one had reached some higher stage of "holiness"... (Maybe it is like kong fu or something where higher level of Qi can make u fly around or break through wood)
BTW if "holy spirits" do enter a body, might as well ask it to leviatate or perform some telekinetic ability rather than just speak incoherently... I mean, everyone can speak incoherently... how do u really know it is some holy spirit tat entered your body -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Is it ? Seems to me from the replies tat some of the people treat speaking in "tongues" like a medal and seems to desire to "abtain" such higher level of... well... "abtainment". BTW: I mention places like Macdonald etc not because I saw such behaviors there but because in society these behaviors is just... queer and funny....
If u talk about "personal relationship", it seems tat some church have people "grunting and groaning" in front of everyone in the church making other members relatively amused and uncomfortable. I can imagine myself for tat too if suddenly a lot of people broke up into mumbo jumbo when attending a lecture. If u ask me, it seems to have decayed till speaking in tongues is nothing but some form of "bragging" because one had reached some higher stage of "holiness"... (Maybe it is like kong fu or something where higher level of Qi can make u fly around or break through wood)
BTW if "holy spirits" do enter a body, might as well ask it to leviatate or perform some telekinetic ability rather than just speak incoherently... I mean, everyone can speak incoherently... how do u really know it is some holy spirit tat entered your body 
Know what? You are not far from the truth where the practice of tongues is concern among some churches and Christians.
.... which is why Apostle Paul had cautioned against it in his writings.
Here's not to say that the purpose of expression of love is wrong, just that some (most?) of the practitioners of this "gift" had emphsized the showiness of the gift the the purpose of the gift.
Levitating is great... 'cept that Bible never mentioned it as a spiritual gift - which was given to edify the church.
Tongues is singularly the most controversial of all the spiritual gifts. There are numerous websites by conservative churches that speak against the overemphasize of this gift. Strangely, too, that this gift is the one in the limelight in the new-age city churches. -
i agree 100% wif what u say my fren.....Originally posted by fandango:I don't want. Even if i want it, God forbids because in the Scriptures it says that tongues have ceased. I have the Word of God, i dun need tongues. I have the prompting of the Holy Spirit that help me to grow in the Lord and bear the fruits of the Spirit.
God is not biased. If you say that the god that speaks to the charismatic pastors and followers is the Christian God, I suggest you study the Scriptures again to see if thats God or the devil.
By saying that the charismatic pastors and followers recieves messages, signs from God in these days, it means that they are prophets and apostles (because God only speaks and reveal prophesies to prophets and apostles). Right? Prophets in these days? Nope, they are the false prophets.
Some charismatic says that tongues are angelic languages. Can someone enlighten me why do you need to speak in angelic languages when God can hear my prayer be it i pray in English or Chinese? Are you praying to God or are you praying to the angels? Think about it. Please provide scripture proofs.
Even angels speak to us in human language, consider Gabriel and the angel at the tomb.
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I am still not sure if stupidissmart is a Christian, but from his other postings in the other threads i assume he is not.
But can you see in his comments - though it was rather harsh - it is so apparent that the 'so-called' gifts of tongues is not only causing so much disagreement, it is stumbling non believers.
He gave his no-holds-bar opinions on tongues and I do agree with what he says! stupidissmart hit the very core of the problem. Is the tongue speaking "miracle" in the modern day charismatic churches of God,or issit just a fraud showing of holiness.
When someone new joins a charismatic cell group, when everyone starts to pray in tongue, what is he going to do?
Have you heard of people being threaten to speak in tongues when they are being told that, "Oh, you don't have the Holy Spirit in you thats why you can't pray in tongues." Cmon, how long will it take before this new chap succumbs to the mounting pressure before he starts his own babbling. It is then that his self-believe that "Hey, i have the Holy Spirit now." because the same cell group members will cheer for him and encourage him.
I know that i will incure much wrath here based on the common charismatic rebut of
"Thou shalt not judge" in John 8:7. (Look at the context of the scriptures guys,please , its is not talking about Christian judging - in fact Christian should judge each other to protect and warn each other from falling)
The interpretation of praying in tongues by the charismatic churches is so dangerous. If you can, steer clear of that because with proof from the scriptures, modern tongues praying/speaking is beginning to look like it's from the Devil. -
To anyone interested in reading more about the charismatic movement, the following link has some interesting points. Do also take note of it's header that it uses "the Authorized Version of the Holy Bible (KJV)" This is an obvious reference to it's extremely conservative background.
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/charismatic_movement_is_dangerous.htm
This site, nonetheless, has some good points on the issues of the charismatic movement.
I come from a church that is semi-charismatic, ie, one congregation is charismatic and another traditional. Outwardly speaking it seems that the charismatic congregation is extremely enthuisiastic in implementing "visions" in various neighbourhood projects, but inwardly, there are varying levels of emotional stress and tension. There are also vicious disagreement between members of the leadership.
The traditional congregation, on the other hand, suffers from a lackadasical attitude in being rather (too) comfortable.
Actually there are varying charges on the charismatic movement having origins in pagan and shamanistic practices. I also have problems with "new revelations" that I hear from some pastors.Originally posted by fandango:The interpretation of praying in tongues by the charismatic churches is so dangerous. If you can, steer clear of that because with proof from the scriptures, modern tongues praying/speaking is beginning to look like it's from the Devil.
... the same way why some charismatic churches is teaching that we should worship with sign languages and the raising of banners and streamers and hitting tambourines during worship. Apparently based on some obscure OT verses on the song of Mariam.... Take one verse twist it around, and you get a new money making seminar for the young. This one is real. Organised by International Prayer Conference (not sure who they are) in June in ACJS (Barker Rd).Originally posted by fandango:Some charismatic says that tongues are angelic languages. Can someone enlighten me why do you need to speak in angelic languages when God can hear my prayer be it i pray in English or Chinese? Are you praying to God or are you praying to the angels? Think about it. Please provide scripture proofs.
Even angels speak to us in human language, consider Gabriel and the angel at the tomb. -
in the light of the reality of spiritual realm. it is good to know that for every God's gifts and purposes, satan has his own set of counterfeits. To know that satan being the father of lies and deceiver likes to imitate God in many ways and from there carry out his evil plans.
So it never occured new to me that there will be demonic tongues, false prophets etc....
the only way to test a spiritual gift is whether the gift promotes and confess that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the incarnate Son of God. -
in the light of the reality of spiritual realm. it is good to know that for every God's gifts and purposes, satan has his own set of counterfeits. To know that satan being the father of lies and deceiver likes to imitate God in many ways and from there carry out his evil plans.
HOw does speaking in "tongues" confess that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the incarnate Son of God ? And why do u think the "devil" is so dumb and not make anything tat briefly associate with God and then deceive everyone the other way ? It is not like Walt Disney cartoons where bad guys must look ugly and one look u will know he is a bad ass.
So it never occured new to me that there will be demonic tongues, false prophets etc....
the only way to test a spiritual gift is whether the gift promotes and confess that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the incarnate Son of God.
In fact why do u think Jesus is not a lie from the devil but from God ? It has suceeded in seperating the main religion isn't it ? -
that question is possible to answer but with ur lack of biblical sound knowledge and bias mind. i wont venture into that. satan is never dumb and infact to counterfeit God's stuffs is one of the smartest way to deceive people. Whether Jesus is a liar or Lord...i have fully settled that question personally and i wont force anyone to believe just because i said so. The Bible and many things has proven and testified that He is Christ, the Son of the Most High God.Originally posted by stupidissmart:HOw does speaking in "tongues" confess that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the incarnate Son of God ? And why do u think the "devil" is so dumb and not make anything tat briefly associate with God and then deceive everyone the other way ? It is not like Walt Disney cartoons where bad guys must look ugly and one look u will know he is a bad ass.
In fact why do u think Jesus is not a lie from the devil but from God ? It has suceeded in seperating the main religion isn't it ?