Catholics and Protestants
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HEAR HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by NeonTetra:i would emphasise more on teachings rather than which denominations r 'right' and which are 'wrong'....
its not religious systems that save you....its ur faith and faith alone. -
Originally posted by snk86:HEAR HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!
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dun understandOriginally posted by NeonTetra: -
read slowly...Originally posted by dumbdumb!:dun understand -
Hmm... wrong teachings? Why would you want to jump to such conclusion?Originally posted by KittynMeow:read in my confirmation class that the breakaway from the Catholic church began in the 1500s... when there was a Reformation in Europe. Before the Reformation, the Roman Catholic Church had beome corrupt in many areas of doctrine and practice. Wrong teachings include:
1) salvation through good works
2) purgatory and indulgences
3) praying to the Virgin Mary and the saints
4) transubstantiation - the belief that the bread and wine are Jesus' real body and blood
5) authority of the church placed above the authority of the Bible.
The Reformation was also stimulated by the desire to be free from the political control and dominance of the Pope, to use English rather than Latin in public worship, and to preach the gospel of salvation by faith.
Martin Luther (1483 - 1546) and John Calvin (1509 - 1546) were key figures in the Reformation of the church in Europe. Other influential key people include John Wycliffe, King Henry VIII and Thomas Cranmer.
Hope that info is erm... informative.
Catholics believe that faith and good works are both important as a christian.. not just one over the other.. You can't believe that Jesus is lord and be mean and all and vice versa...
HOWEVER, Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by god's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but god's gift so that no one can boast about it" Which means to say that at the end, it's God's grace that we are save.. not by our faith or by our works.
However, i think both sides get too caught up with the word "Alone"...
Authority of the church... THe bible is the truth, and we all agree that.. it's the good news.. BUT one line can be interpretated with different meanings. and we turn to the church.. IRONically, not many people know that it's in the bible too... 1 Tim 3:12-16 ".... the church of the living god, the pillar and support of the truth... " thats why we don't place one over the other.. we just turn to the church because we believe that when God sent down his holy spirit during pentecost, the holy spirit will guide the church along the way.
And for any human civilisation with so many mistakes, the catholic church manage to stand for so long... there's something about it...
I've explained purgatory and Mary in another thread and dun wish to explain so please do refer there...BTW, many like to trap catholics with the term praying... What's the definition of prayer? it's a conversation right? We don't pray to mary and the saints.. but we talk to them and ask them to pray for us. And this the catholics are vey sure of... most at least... so please be fair to us.
Body and blood of christ... what's so hard to believe that the bread and wine really turned to body and flesh? In many cases, people have reported that the 'bread' they took have turned into flesh... And many are kept in certain chapels in rome and all... For display even. Scientifically, and interestingly, all bloodtype are type AB+ and comes from the muscle from the heart. Coincidence? With god? i doubt it. Whatever it is, the eucharist, as what catholics call the body and blood, does come from the bible. Similarly, the last supper, Christ said "this is my body, take it and eat it and do it in the memory of me..." same for his blood. I don't think the bread did change it's looks and become flesh.. But why did Christ say that? He said this IS my body.. not this is something like my body... Jesus is known not to play with words... it must be so important that christ did it again when he resurrected.
We have to understand that it's the change in looks but form... And would anyone dare to eat real flesh in blood? i don't think i am...
Hope it clears the air more... -
btw, does the forumers here know that there is a difference between Roman Catholics and Catholics?
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No. What's the difference? Are you perhaps refering to the Eastern Catholics, Catholics of a different rite?Originally posted by ventin:btw, does the forumers here know that there is a difference between Roman Catholics and Catholics?
Regarding the eucharist,
And Jesus said to them: "I am the bread that has come down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread that I give is my flesh for the life of the world. The Jews then argued among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" And Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall have no life within you. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him". (Jn 6:51-57) -
you know, when my non-believer ah lao used to ask me 3 questions
Qn: why do you worship Mary?
My ans: I love you and when I visit your house I respect yr mother. And Catholics love Jesus, so we respect his Mother too...
Qn: Why do you pray to Mary?
My Ans: I am not praying to Her, I am just asking her to pray for me to Jesus coz she is Jesus's Mother, and she is close to Jesus. And if I ask you to pray for me if I have trouble, does that mean I'm worshipping you??
Qn : why do you carry pictures and idol worship?
Ans: Does carrying a picture means idol worshipping?? If you carry a picture of me in yr wallet, does that mean you are worshipping me??
And how the Methodist comes about I think is because King Henry wants to remarry and is rejected by the Church.... thus he form is own denomination. Till now Catholics are not allow to remarry... If you choose to, you cannot receive communion.
Correct me if I am wrong... -
Oh, I think you are [very] wrong. To save space, I quote the questions only.
Qn: why do you worship Mary?
Why don't you respect his [earthly] father also? Respect earthly mother never respect earthly father? Think if Joseph never take initiative and escape to Egypt, Jesus already died in Herod's hands liao.
Qn: Why do you pray to Mary?
I think you all very very prejudiced. Come on lah, why don't you ask Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist or Apostle John to pray for you also? Ok, probably you do, but there's no reason why Mary enjoys a higher status than all these people?
If you ask me, Jesus qian4 Apostle John one big ren2 qing2. The latter, who is the disciple well/most loved, helped take care of Mary. So why not ask John for help? Jesus highly favoured John also, or else why let him live the longest and let him see the End of Days in Book of Revelation?
PS: Legend has it most or all other apostles are martyred. Even Saint Peter was crucified upside down [at his own request]
And how the Methodist comes about I think is because King Henry wants to remarry and is rejected by the Church
You mean Anglican issit? Methodist was founded by the Wesley brothers.
Sorry if I sound like SIS this time. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Sorry if I sound like SIS this time.
[/b]
fall off chair....ouch! -
On teachings. What kind of teachings? Different Denominations have different aspects and emphasis of teachings.Originally posted by NeonTetra:i would emphasise more on teachings rather than which denominations r 'right' and which are 'wrong'....
its not religious systems that save you....its ur faith and faith alone.
On faith. What faith? Don't you know even cult members have faith in their gods?
Faith hereby is a 'product' what you believe and your beliefs.
Again. Belief lies upon what teachings are you rely on. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
sorry hor, we respect Joseph too hor... Just that you dun know oni..
Qn: why do you worship Mary?
Why don't you respect his [earthly] father also? Respect earthly mother never respect earthly father? Think if Joseph never take initiative and escape to Egypt, Jesus already died in Herod's hands liao. and many more saints... all just that you dun know oni... Saints from A to Z, big and small we have, all of them a special feast day... just that you dun know oni.... -
double post ..
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This is becoming personal.....
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There will always be differences.... even among the various Protestant denominations. Don't even bring up the style of baptism! Point is, it is not necessary to state issues like who burn who at the stake in the past or which group was seen to be heretic... no end lah.
Recognise the difference and move on.
For whatever reason the split occured historical and whatever intolerance that existed back then may not exist in the same magnitude today.
Whether God will allow a eventual merger or reunification or not remains to be seen. It is not for us to say and the last thing we should do is accuse each other of heresy.
God bless us all.....
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correct me if i am wrong. Do catholics knee to the statue of Mary or whatever saint?
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correct me if i am wrong. Do catholics knee to the statue of Mary or whatever saint? i see little children doing that all the time.
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Originally posted by ventin:
only children? children kneel everywhere mah...
correct me if i am wrong. Do catholics [b]knee to the statue of Mary or whatever saint? i see little children doing that all the time.[/b] -
Role of Mary and the veneration and devotion to saints has been one of the few Roman Catholic doctrine in which the Protestant church do not hold on to.
Mary is highly honoured than the rest of the saints. That is a fact. -
But like Neon mentioned, Mary enjoys a higher status than the rest. Come on lah, how many statue of Moses or Apostle John have you seen in Church before?Originally posted by my_name_is_Natasha:sorry hor, we respect Joseph too hor... Just that you dun know oni.. and many more saints... all just that you dun know oni... Saints from A to Z, big and small we have, all of them a special feast day... just that you dun know oni....
Everyone respects Joseph, I'm not saying you don't. But I don't think you venerate Joseph like you venerate Mary. You ask Joseph for help before?
How come no-one like ask Moses for help? In the OT, Moses could even bargain with God. I think he can do the same today.
Don't you think you all are not fair to Moses? Got Saint Moses? -
if me no wrong, Moses is a prophet le...Originally posted by Icemoon:But like Neon mentioned, Mary enjoys a higher status than the rest. Come on lah, how many statue of Moses or Apostle John have you seen in Church before?
Everyone respects Joseph, I'm not saying you don't. But I don't think you venerate Joseph like you venerate Mary. You ask Joseph for help before?
How come no-one like ask Moses for help? In the OT, Moses could even bargain with God. I think he can do the same today.
Don't you think you all are not fair to Moses? Got Saint Moses? -
ya... stressful huh... personally, it felt like someone telling me my Mother is a nothing. No body would like tat.... rite?? my Mother did nothing wrong what...Originally posted by M©+square:This is becoming personal..... -
last post in this thread oso.... God bless.
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Hi icemoon..Originally posted by Icemoon:But like Neon mentioned, Mary enjoys a higher status than the rest. Come on lah, how many statue of Moses or Apostle John have you seen in Church before?
Everyone respects Joseph, I'm not saying you don't. But I don't think you venerate Joseph like you venerate Mary. You ask Joseph for help before?
How come no-one like ask Moses for help? In the OT, Moses could even bargain with God. I think he can do the same today.
Don't you think you all are not fair to Moses? Got Saint Moses?
Let me clarify what you are saying in your mail.. you feel uncomfortable because mary got so much more honor than the rest or that in the first place... the catholic church should not do anything with saints and mary but just concentrate on God instead?
Hmm.. i guess we have to say again that because mary who had the greatest honor of being christ's mother, the church also gives her the highest respect amongst all saints...
But if you comfortable in talking to God with the help of Moses... by all means do it... whatever it is.. i really don't think these people really bother if any honor was given to them or who is given more honor... cuz all of them are filled with joy and love in heaven...that this is secondary... -
Originally posted by ventin:
You want to kneel also can, don't want to kneel also can. It's the prayer that's more important. If you kneel in front of a statue, it does not mean that you are praying to the statue. You are simply using the statue to help you concentrate in your prayers.
correct me if i am wrong. Do catholics [b]knee to the statue of Mary or whatever saint? i see little children doing that all the time.[/b]