Christianity and Tolkien
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Here's a collection of writeups regarding Tolkien, writer of The Lord of the Rings.
Tolkien, being a Catholic, has infused his beliefs and experiences into the stories he writes. It is interesting to see the parallels between the Bible and the stories of Middle-earth. -
It's little surprise, hardly anybody can deny that Tolkien drew his influences heavily from Christianity, and writes his stories as a way of illustrating the christian condition and the struggle between good and evil.
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i saw a book regarding this a year ago.
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how abt harry potter? =P
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think its paganOriginally posted by dumbdumb!:how abt harry potter? =P -
What about Harry Potter?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:how abt harry potter? =P
You mean the author? She's a self-declared witch, a white witch (so I read). -
LOTR is based on the two World Wars as well as Tolkien's beliefs.
Harry Potter is pagan and encourages readers to "explore" the pagan practices such as witchcraft. So Christian parents should discourage their children from reading them. Oh well...Christian should be discouraged from reading them altogether. -
by the way, i got the feeling that nowadays, people associate Catholics as Christians.
Also, they dun call themselves Roman Catholic anymore.
And newspaper articles also label the pope as the head of Christianity. I feel this is very wrong and i think it is the slowly leading to the ecumacanism and One World Religion.
Any thoughts? -
Well, I wonder what's the real distinction sometimes between catholics and christians?
Back then before the reformation, when there was just the catholic church, does this mean that christianity did not exist back then?
Since when did christians=protestants?
Do not get me wrong, I certainly do not agree with many of their pratices, but it is clear to me that many catholics have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour (though many still go about their lives not knowing if they are saved), how would you regard them?
Thelogy and pratices aside, I believe the bottom line is if who is saved or not. And what are those who are saved considered? Christians.
About the dilution of truth to create One Religon where everybody compromises, I'm sure we all have our stand on that. But at the same time we must be mindful if we are getting the "corner on truth" mentality, where we feel that we are the only right ones and the rest are teethering on the edge of hell. It helps to take a step back and see things from the big picture. -
catholics or christians, doesn't really matters... even within the christian community there's different denominations. wat really matters is are we saved thru the blood of Christ thru faith?
like this chinese saying I heard very much....
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I'm not a Christian, but here is the most damning collection of critiques on the Harry Potter series that I know of :
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/hpmain.html
The site is run by an "orthodox" Christian - as opposed to, say, "charismatic"?
As for LOTR, there is an alternative, non faith-based interpretation of his writings.
I can't remember the URL now, but it goes something like this : the elves, dwarfs and other creatures are aliens who have roamed the earth at some point in the distant past.
The various races have both worked together with and fought against the humans who are the "native people".
At the end of the story, the elves are seen to be leaving in boats. This may be considered an allegory which can be compared to, say, the Vorlons of Babylon 5 leaving the known galaxy in their starships.
And as for Frodo and his uncle joining them? They were invited, and accepted the invitation, to make the trip "way out there" together with them!
Incredible? I thought so too! -
That's an interesting interpretation of the classic. Tolkien was a staunch believer of God. I doubt he meant it that way. Not forgetting the stories he wrote were meant to be told to his children in the early years.
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well, i think neontetra know what my parent does, and well, what they told me about books like harry potter is, can read, but pls don believe it.....well, harry potter did have it's lesson in it........reading material i would recommend....to people who can differentciat between real world and fantasy lah....
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In that case what are you reading it for?Originally posted by snk86:well, i think neontetra know what my parent does, and well, what they told me about books like harry potter is, can read, but pls don believe it.....well, harry potter did have it's lesson in it........reading material i would recommend....to people who can differentciat between real world and fantasy lah....
For fun? How can supporting a character who resorts to witchcraft and other extremely demonic stuff to do things which are obviously opposite to what you believe in be considered any kind of a good read? What are you reading it for then? Is it even worthwhile entertainment? -
hey hey hey, i do consider it good entertainment, because in the book, it does implant good moral lessons........and well, frankly speaking, people are just being too sensitive about it, no one complained about D&D or magic the gathering......and well, it is really not very demonic, as it did not portal the main positive character doing immoral or demonic(as in bad stuff) things.....Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:In that case what are you reading it for?
For fun? How can supporting a character who resorts to witchcraft and other extremely demonic stuff to do things which are obviously opposite to what you believe in be considered any kind of a good read? What are you reading it for then? Is it even worthwhile entertainment? -
Care tell me what good moral lessons these books implant? There is no truth but what that we make for ourselves? New age teachings? Blatant use of demonic powers to get your way in life?Originally posted by snk86:hey hey hey, i do consider it good entertainment, because in the book, it does implant good moral lessons........and well, frankly speaking, people are just being too sensitive about it, no one complained about D&D or magic the gathering......and well, it is really not very demonic, as it did not portal the main positive character doing immoral or demonic(as in bad stuff) things.....
About D&D and Magic, I think it's clear enough.
The worse things don't need to be blatanty bad, they can be subtly deceptive, drawing you in with what seems okay and good at first and but in truth, it's entirely nonsense. Prehaps you should go and consider the link provided by lowem.
If you can answer every one of the points there raised, then I have nothing to say. -
Enough of Harry Potter. don't realy enjoy it
So which are the themes that are found in Tolkien's books that draws you to his stories?
For me, it's the sense of comradeship. Different races comign together to fight the odds. Covering for each other, saving each others lives.
Secondly, the sense of doing what is right then what your heart desires. -
can i just add my 2 cents? (looks like i'm doing it anyhow
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I especially like the scene where the humans battle it out at Mordor. Clearly they were outnumbered by tens of thousands. The relevation that comes is mind-blowing, 'Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of it' Mark Twain
Also the theme of friendship, loyalty. How Sam stuck with Frodo to the end. As contrast to the disciples (and us) who fell asleep while Jesus was praying in the garden of Gethsamne.
Finally, that there is a struggle within us. so let the good arise (with grace) -
I dun care abt LOTR or Harry Potter. Both are the same to me. None of my friends ever tot of LOTR as having christian themes running underneath nor do they catch any christian themes nor do they want to find out abt Tolkien being a christian. All they are interested is the power, fantasical (if there is such a word) characters. Harry Potter is bad? Yes i think so but LOTR isnt any better. Just my view. Watch any movies you want but you have to be clear on your convictions. Cheers.
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An over simplistic view on the subject, one that's rooted deeply in ignorance. If you are in ingorance, what good are your convictions?
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nope, as i said, just because the writer wrote this story more for the childrens then you all so hostile, in harry potter lesson on integrity, loyalty and friendship........there are thousands of story based on witchcraft, even education material are based on it(primary 4, chapter 11Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Care tell me what good moral lessons these books implant? There is no truth but what that we make for ourselves? New age teachings? Blatant use of demonic powers to get your way in life?
About D&D and Magic, I think it's clear enough.
The worse things don't need to be blatanty bad, they can be subtly deceptive, drawing you in with what seems okay and good at first and but in truth, it's entirely nonsense. Prehaps you should go and consider the link provided by lowem.
If you can answer every one of the points there raised, then I have nothing to say. 
).......still, i must say i fully ANTI the practice of any form of witchcraft.... -
I believe the big problems lies in that it is written for children, young, impressionable children can learn far more about the virtues you mentioned in other literature and unless you haven't had a good touch with reality, the net result of reading such literature is that ist increases an interest in the occult for the young ones who look wistfully upon their "heros" in the book and wish that they could do all that stuff as well.Originally posted by snk86:nope, as i said, just because the writer wrote this story more for the childrens then you all so hostile, in harry potter lesson on integrity, loyalty and friendship........there are thousands of story based on witchcraft, even education material are based on it(primary 4, chapter 11 ).......still, i must say i fully ANTI the practice of any form of witchcraft....
All this was fine if it remained in the realm of far off fantasy, but unfortunately (but not surprisingly) we can see that harry potter provides an accurate and blatant dipiction of witchcraft presented in a positive light, as well as ideas directly in contradiction to our faith being sold as worldviews. These are things young, impressionable children will pick up, an interest into the occult. The reason why I am so hostile to this is the very fact that the basic theme of Harry Potter is, and should be repungant to Christians.
For non-christians, who are we to tell them what to read? But for our own house, I strongly believe that Harry Potter should remain out of it. It's something that you can hardly condone.
As somebody who has seen the work of the enemy up close and personal firsthand, in both the lives of my friends and myself, I can tell you these things are not even worth flirting with. -
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
woah! you kinda saw it up close and personal, care to share it?
I believe the big problems lies in that it is written for children, young, impressionable children can learn far more about the virtues you mentioned in other literature and unless you haven't had a good touch with reality, the net result of reading such literature is that ist increases an interest in the occult for the young ones who look wistfully upon their "heros" in the book and wish that they could do all that stuff as well.
All this was fine if it remained in the realm of far off fantasy, but unfortunately (but not surprisingly) we can see that harry potter provides an [b]accurate and blatant dipiction of witchcraft presented in a positive light, as well as ideas directly in contradiction to our faith being sold as worldviews. These are things young, impressionable children will pick up, an interest into the occult. The reason why I am so hostile to this is the very fact that the basic theme of Harry Potter is, and should be repungant to Christians.
For non-christians, who are we to tell them what to read? But for our own house, I strongly believe that Harry Potter should remain out of it. It's something that you can hardly condone.
As somebody who has seen the work of the enemy up close and personal firsthand, in both the lives of my friends and myself, I can tell you these things are not even worth flirting with.[/b]
*proceed to sit down and listen -
It isn't pretty, that's what I can sum it up as. It will be an eye opener for anybody seeing such things for the first time.Originally posted by snk86:woah! you kinda saw it up close and personal, care to share it?
*proceed to sit down and listen
When people told you dabbling with the dark side was generally harmless as long as you didn't mean it, or take it seriously, I'm afraid the enemy sees no such distinction, and he plays havoc with their lives. And what happens later? They all have to be set free.
All these things are real, and very serious, and we shouldn't approach them with a calliaver attitude. Don't mess with them. -
oh, ok..........i would assume you witness someone who practice dark arts right? well............harry potter did't mention too much abt that what.......well, that is what i personally few after reading thru all 5 books 5 times thru and fro..............Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:It isn't pretty, that's what I can sum it up as. It will be an eye opener for anybody seeing such things for the first time.
When people told you dabbling with the dark side was generally harmless as long as you didn't mean it, or take it seriously, I'm afraid the enemy sees no such distinction, and he plays havoc with their lives. And what happens later? They all have to be set free.
All these things are real, and very serious, and we shouldn't approach them with a calliaver attitude. Don't mess with them.