Creationism, Intelligent Design & Evolutionism
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Just to sum up for BIC why I left Christianity:
1. Errors/inconsistencies in the bible, casting doubt on the authencity of the bible and the character of god
2. Trinity concept unclear
3. Simliarities between Christianity and other religions, making it NOT superior to other religions
4. Christians like BIC
I beg to differ. From what I have gathered based on my past exchanges with you, the reason why you left Christianity was because you never had a deep foundation to begin with. You knew little about the faith and was not equipped to handle intellectual assaults on the faith. Just reflect on the immature kind of objections you threw out here, and the shallow nature of your arguments. The sad fact is that there are many Christians just like you in the church today. Many live on feel-good sermons and are not being properly grounded in the truths of God's Word, or to defend it against those who seek to undermine the faith and Bible.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
good for you, as you have seen the light. to me, it just doesnt make sense the creator conceot, that god created us so that we can worship god. does it makes any sense to you at all?
Where did the Bible said that God created us so that we can worship Him? Show Chapter and Verse please. It's as absurd as saying that our parents gave birth to us so that we can call them father or mother. The reason why we call our parents "father" or "mother" is because they gave birth to us, and thus we are to honour them as such. We owe it to them because without them there would be no us. The same with God, who created the universe and all that is in it. The creation owes its existence to the Creator. While honor is due to our parents who begat us, much more than honor is due to God who made the universe and gave us life.
Why does God demand that we worship Him? The same way that our parents demand that we do not anyhow call other people "father" or "mother". Or wives demand that their husbands only love them and vice versa. It's being jealous for the right reasons.
But why let you off the hook? Does it make sense that the universe made itself from nothing? You tell me.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Do you roll your eyes and cynically complain "what a choice" when the government says that you will get a death penalty if you smuggle drugs into Singapore? Is the govt holding a gun to your head to tell you not to smuggle drugs, or is the government telling you of the CONSEQUENCES should you CHOOSE to do the wrong thing? Warnings are warnings, and consequences are bound up with the choices we make. It is absurd to claim that you do not have a choice just because the consequences are spelled out in advance for you. Consequences are there so that you can make a wise choice, not that you have no choice. You can still smuggle drugs if you want to, but then you will have to face up to the law.
Yes in fact I do.
In fact, I think death for NOT BELIEVING in some gods is even more ridiculous than death for smuggling small amounts of drugs.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I beg to differ. From what I have gathered based on my past exchanges with you, the reason why you left Christianity was because you never had a deep foundation to begin with. You knew little about the faith and was not equipped to handle intellectual assaults on the faith. Just reflect on the immature kind of objections you threw out here, and the shallow nature of your arguments. The sad fact is that there are many Christians just like you in the church today. Many live on feel-good sermons and are not being properly grounded in the truths of God's Word, or to defend it against those who seek to undermine the faith and Bible.
BIC,
If you say I never was a "strong christian", then you arent one too, because I was exactly like you. Spewing hate against nonbelievers and believing that all nonchristians will end up in fire.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Yes in fact I do.
In fact, I think death for NOT BELIEVING in some gods is even more ridiculous than death for smuggling small amounts of drugs.
Don't change the subject to the amount of drugs being smuggled or the severity of the consequences. The issue is whether there is a choice or not. There is. No one is forcing you not to smuggle drugs. You can either choose to smuggle drugs or not to, given the fact that you know the law and its consequences. The govt has the right to set the consequences for those livng in Singapore just as God has the right to set the consequences for those living in His universe.
Fact is, you will die physically whether you believe in God or not. What is at stake here is not your physical life, but your spirit. Where will you spend eternity? It's not as if you have two new roads before you, turn left to hell and turn right to heaven. If this is what you are thinking then it again shows how poor your Bible knowledge is. The Bible teaches that all have sinned and fallen short. We are already condemned and already are going down the road to hell because of our sins. Make no mistake, if you persist in your rebellion against God, it would not be because of unbelief that you end up in hell, but because of your rebellion against God and the sins you have committed against Him. Believing in Jesus is the only way we can be lifted out of this path and emplaced onto the highway to heaven, so to speak.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC,
If you say I never was a "strong christian", then you arent one too, because I was exactly like you. Spewing hate against nonbelievers and believing that all nonchristians will end up in fire.
Please do not drag me down to be like you.
Firstly, I do not hate nonbelievers.
Secondly, I have a far better grounding in the faith than you, at least in terms of Bible knowledge and theological understanding, which I give credit to those who have written books to equip Christians in their walk.
And there is nothing wrong in believing that nonChristians will end up in hell just like there is nothing wrong in believing that murderers will end up in prison or get a death penalty. Just as the govt set the laws, so God sets the rules. Or do you want to tell me that it is wrong to believe that murderers should be punished by the law? Likewise, there is nothing wrong to believe that those who choose to rebel against God would be punished in hell for eternity.
And you know what your problem is? You keep using the word "non-believers" as if it is merely a matter of believing, and nothing to do with sin at all. I think this is just your tactic used to give the impression of God who is so petty to judge people for just failing to believe. This is again being deceptive and misleading.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Please do not drag me down to be like you.
Firstly, I do not hate nonbelievers.
Secondly, I have a far better grounding in the faith than you, at least in terms of Bible knowledge and theological understanding, which I give credit to those who have written books to equip Christians in their walk.
And there is nothing wrong in believing that nonChristians will end up in hell just like there is nothing wrong in believing that murderers will end up in prison or get a death penalty. Just as the govt set the laws, so God sets the rules. Or do you want to tell me that it is wrong to believe that murderers should be punished by the law? Likewise, there is nothing wrong to believe that those who choose to rebel against God would be punished in hell for eternity.
And you know what your problem is? You keep using the word "non-believers" as if it is merely a matter of believing, and nothing to do with sin at all. I think this is just your tactic used to give the impression of God who is so petty to judge people for just failing to believe. This is again being deceptive and misleading.
Your blind spot. You spew hate against nonbelievers by saying we will go to hell and say you do not hate us.
Such hypocrisy!
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Your blind spot. You spew hate against nonbelievers by saying we will go to hell and say you do not hate us.
Such hypocrisy!
So if I warn a reckless driver that he will get into an accident it is considered a hate crime? Duh!
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"And there is nothing wrong in believing that nonChristians will end up in hell just like there is nothing wrong in believing that murderers will end up in prison or get a death penalty"
and so non believers are murderers?? You are trying to tell us that the protrayal of god's "love" is in such a form?
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
"And there is nothing wrong in believing that nonChristians will end up in hell just like there is nothing wrong in believing that murderers will end up in prison or get a death penalty"
and so non believers are murderers?? You are trying to tell us that the protrayal of god's "love" is in such a form?
This is exactly the kind of emotional knee jerk reaction I cautioned about earlier. You completely missed the point! Just like the murderer broke the law and must face the death penalty, the unbelievers broke God's law and must face an eternity in hell. I am in no way saying that unbelievers are murderers. Chill man. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
So if I warn a reckless driver that he will get into an accident it is considered a hate crime? Duh!
smlj wei
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
"And there is nothing wrong in believing that nonChristians will end up in hell just like there is nothing wrong in believing that murderers will end up in prison or get a death penalty"
and so non believers are murderers?? You are trying to tell us that the protrayal of god's "love" is in such a form?
hahaha.....how can non christians go to hell when their god is made up and invented by men. sure we go to hell when we die, but that is their perception. the truth of the matter is this, how can we go to hell when god is a figment of their imagination.
so kids believe that harry potter is as real as superman or thor or hulk?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
hahaha.....how can non christians go to hell when their god is made up and invented by men. sure we go to hell when we die, but that is their perception. the truth of the matter is this, how can we go to hell when god is a figment of their imagination.
so kids believe that harry potter is as real as superman or thor or hulk?
Please explain how you have established that the truth of the matter is that there is no hell or that God is merely a figment of our imagination.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Please explain how you have established that the truth of the matter is that there is no hell or that God is merely a figment of our imagination.
How about you proving the otherwise? i've asked you about tat and you refused to. Im wondering if its you refused to or you could not do so? Really wanna shut jacky up? Prove to him god existed and stop asking him to prove to you! Cant prove someone is wrong and you ask someone to prove he is right? -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
How about you proving the otherwise? i've asked you about tat and you refused to. Im wondering if its you refused to or you could not do so? Really wanna shut jacky up? Prove to him god existed and stop asking him to prove to you! Cant prove someone is wrong and you ask someone to prove he is right?haha, its so typical of him sia
he knows he is lying and he still continue
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
How about you proving the otherwise? i've asked you about tat and you refused to. Im wondering if its you refused to or you could not do so? Really wanna shut jacky up? Prove to him god existed and stop asking him to prove to you! Cant prove someone is wrong and you ask someone to prove he is right?It's absurd to ask me to prove to you that I am not imagining things in my mind. You can't get into my head nor can I open up my head to show you anything. But if you can show me a way to prove that one is not imagining things, then I'll be happy to use that method, fair?
It is absurd to think that only the theist has the burden of proof. So long as a claim is made (e.g. there is a God, there is no God, God is a figment of imagination) there is a burden of proof. As for me, I have numerous posts arguing the case for God's existence. Note that I NEVER said that I have proven God's existence, but I said that the evidence points there, and that God's existence makes the most sense of what needs explaining. I said it is a matter of FAITH since both theist or atheist believe God exists or He does not.
BTW, I have many times challenged atheists here on what the cause of the universe here. The best Jacky could do was to drop big names like Stephen Hawkings and think that invoking unseen hypothetical multiverses he has therefore shown that theism is false. What he forgets is that he is violating Occam's Razor here, multiplying entities unnecessarily.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
It's absurd to ask me to prove to you that I am not imagining things in my mind. You can't get into my head nor can I open up my head to show you anything. But if you can show me a way to prove that one is not imagining things, then I'll be happy to use that method, fair?
It is absurd to think that only the theist has the burden of proof. So long as a claim is made (e.g. there is a God, there is no God, God is a figment of imagination) there is a burden of proof. As for me, I have numerous posts arguing the case for God's existence. Note that I NEVER said that I have proven God's existence, but I said that the evidence points there, and that God's existence makes the most sense of what needs explaining. I said it is a matter of FAITH since both theist or atheist believe God exists or He does not.
BTW, I have many times challenged atheists here on what the cause of the universe here. The best Jacky could do was to drop big names like Stephen Hawkings and think that invoking unseen hypothetical multiverses he has therefore shown that theism is false. What he forgets is that he is violating Occam's Razor here, multiplying entities unnecessarily.
Its stupid argument really
You are asking people to prove when you yourself cant prove your point
What do they teach in school these days?
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Originally posted by laurence82:
Its stupid argument really
You are asking people to prove when you yourself cant prove your point
What do they teach in school these days?
Yes, I cannot prove God exists. I already stated this many times. You were deaf to it.
Likewise the atheist also cannot prove his claim that God does not exist. Or that God is just a figment of imagination.
Which is why I said many times that this is a matter of BELIEF. But guess who refuses to admit that and constantly denies it? Yep, that's right, the atheist.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Yes, I cannot prove God exists. I already stated this many times. You were deaf to it.
Likewise the atheist also cannot prove his claim that God does not exist. Or that God is just a figment of imagination.
Which is why I said many times that this is a matter of BELIEF. But guess who refuses to admit that and constantly denies it? Yep, that's right, the atheist.
If you cant prove god exist, then begone
Anything you said here in this forum are mere statements
You are wasting time here
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Originally posted by laurence82:
If you cant prove god exist, then begone
Anything you said here in this forum are mere statements
You are wasting time here
Then by the same logic you should also be gone since you can't prove God does not exist. Moreover, this is a CHRISTIAN forum. I have a better reason to be here than you.
Shucks, why am I still feeding the troll?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Then by the same logic you should also be gone since you can't prove God does not exist. Moreover, this is a CHRISTIAN forum. I have a better reason to be here than you.
Shucks, why am I still feeding the troll?
Why are you here when you cant prove god exist? To rudely ask people to prove god dont exist?
So you are trolling. If this is a christian forum and you are christ stabber, what are you doing here?
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Dr David Catchpoole writes:
I must admit, the ferocity of many of the hostile comments we receive in response to our articles has surprised me.
A decade ago I naively thought that when people could be shown via creation science information that the Bible’s account of history can be trusted, they would excitedly embrace the truth—the salvation freely offered through Jesus Christ, our Creator and our Lord.
But now, the doggedness some correspondents show in refusing to accept obvious, observable facts prompted me to frustratedly say to a CMI colleague, “I feel like I’m bashing my head against a brick wall. We practically gift-wrap the truth for people in our articles, yet many still can’t see it.”
Hearing this, another Christian friend said, “Actually, I think in some cases it’s not that they can’t see it, it’s that they won’t see it.”
In light of a recent experience during a speaking ministry tour, I suspect he’s right. After giving a creation presentation, it’s not unusual to have someone come up and say, “I’m an atheist”, and then proceed to ask hostile questions. But recently, a young man whom I’ll call Brev introduced himself quite differently. His first words were, “I’m a seeker after truth”—and then he proceeded to ask hostile questions. On the existence of God, Brev said he was more agnostic than atheist.
His questions were against the background of his thinking that the universe can be explained via yin and yang forces over billions of years. I turned the questions back onto his own mixed-up views, and after about 45 minutes we got to the point where I asked him a simple yes/no question about whether there was any possibility that the history outlined in the Bible might be true. To my amazement, Brev said (after a long reflective pause) something that I’ve never previously heard any atheist or agnostic dare to admit: “Uh-oh, I can see where that question leads … but it can’t, we can’t go there … because the consequences of that would change my whole life—if the Bible’s history is true then I’d have to devote my whole life to serving God … The commitment would be too great … No, it’s impossible.”
Brev’s candid admission helps explain why the battle over the truth of the Bible’s historical account is so fierce. Brev’s candour is in stark contrast to atheists and agnostics who won’t admit what their real objection to the creation message is. And in one sense, Brev is right. If the history of the Bible is correct, then the implications are indeed huge for every individual alive today. There is indeed a ‘cost’—something Jesus spoke of (Luke 14:25–33). But having been on both sides of the divide (for I was once an atheist, living in line with the selfish purposelessness conveniently bestowed by the evolutionary paradigm), I can say that, for me, it’s a clear choice. There is nothing more satisfying than to joyfully commit your whole life to serving your Creator God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength—we are here for a purpose.
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The opposite also happens, xtians cant and wouldnt see the light
The story above is becoming irrelevant and pointless
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Originally posted by laurence82:
The opposite also happens, xtians cant and wouldnt see the light
The story above is becoming irrelevant and pointless
What kind of light do atheists see in selfish purposelessness bestowed by evolutionism? -
Uh huh, irrelevant point, if you xtians wouldnt see the light, dont go blame on atheists
Thats like blaming the neighbours for the poo i make in my own house