Six Questions to Ask An Atheist
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it started off quite alright... but seemingly any discussion on christianity issues eventually becomes a offensive and defensive thing. How to get a good discussion going?
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Originally posted by alize:
I take my leave from this thread. Lord knows I've taken pains to be logical and you've made a mockery of this debate.
Huh? In what way have I made a mockery of this debate? And are you ignoring the other posters who are truly guilty of mocking this debate, those who have nothing constructive or substantive to add but just their anti-Christian inane rantings?
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which are those thats nth constructive?
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Originally posted by laffin123:
BIC started this questionaire thread for one purpose. To show that theist can have moral judgement by making use of god-given ability. Atheist thinks and discerns on matter using chemicals in the body, that he thinks it is not possible. Atheist is suppressing god-given ability and live in denial.
I urge BIC not to think so simply on this issue using his god-given power. Thinking and discerning making need more than chemical in the body. The world is more complicated than reading a bible and believing. I do not live in denial, and hope that god appear before me. Then I will believe religion.
I am not taunting any theist.
I take my leave from this thread.
Happy chatting.
You are mistaken. I started this thread to highlight the point that BOTH the atheist and the theist have to address the same set of questions, but that oftentimes it seems that only the theist is put on the defense while the atheist is going on the offense by demanding answers to all sorts of questions that come off their mind, regardless of whether the questions are important or reasonable.
As a theist I affirm that we are moral beings because that's how we are created, in the image of God. Moral values makes sense because there exists a moral lawgiver. The atheist, however, thinks that his values are all determined by mere chemical reactions taking place in the brain. But how did he come to this conclusion? No answer was given at all.
You said that I am thinking simply. Well, I think that God created us that way is the simple truth and makes the most sense. Design points to a designer. A painting points to a painter. Morals proint to a moral lawgiver. Only the Bible gives us the correct worldview to look and understand the world we live in. And the Bible says that the atheist SUPPRESSES the evidence for God and lives in denial. People like Richard Dawkins sees design everywhere but he attribute it an illusion. If that is not suppression and denial then what is it?
Anyway, you are most welcome to join back this thread if you wish.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
which are those thats nth constructive?
That's not hard to spot at all. Think Susanteo, Beta, Pinknutri, Summer Hill
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
it started off quite alright... but seemingly any discussion on christianity issues eventually becomes a offensive and defensive thing. How to get a good discussion going?
It's certainly possible, so long as trolls do not troll here and posters stick to the theme in the first post. I think any discussion is a mutual reciprocal thing. We try to be as civil and cordial as possible, even while disagreeing. Stick to the issues and not go on personal attacks.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
It's certainly possible, so long as trolls do not troll here and posters stick to the theme in the first post. I think any discussion is a mutual reciprocal thing. We try to be as civil and cordial as possible, even while disagreeing. Stick to the issues and not go on personal attacks.
oh well.. base on experience, it doesn't happen even without trolls -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
oh well.. base on experience, it doesn't happen even without trollsWell, based on my experience, the trolls usually cannot stand to see any cordial or civilised exchange taking place about Christianity between a believer and a non-believer, so they will always come in and mess up and derail the thread.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Well, based on my experience, the trolls usually cannot stand to see any cordial or civilised exchange taking place about Christianity between a believer and a non-believer, so they will always come in and mess up and derail the thread.
i don't think all of them are trolling for no reason -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i don't think all of them are trolling for no reasonCan there ever be a GOOD reason for trolling? I don't think so.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Can there ever be a GOOD reason for trolling? I don't think so.
you are the mother of all trollers here. I cant be bothered replying these days, cos all you do is sprouting nonsense, utter rubbish, full of garbage coming from you.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
it started off quite alright... but seemingly any discussion on christianity issues eventually becomes a offensive and defensive thing. How to get a good discussion going?
christians are very defensive and extreme in their world views. they dun care if the world believe in them. they live in this world as if their religion is the only true religion in this world, which is much further away from the truth. -
BIC is the mother of all troll here
read the entire pages inundated with his troll posts
who are on his side? one against so many?
like Jacky Woo pointed out, all BIC does is utter rubbish
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hee hee
all tongues shall troll u
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
christians are very defensive and extreme in their world views. they dun care if the world believe in them. they live in this world as if their religion is the only true religion in this world, which is much further away from the truth.This sounds pretty hypocritical, considering that atheists like Jacky think that ONLY atheism is true and all religions are false!
Are Christians defensive? Well, in my experience many atheists are very offensive and extreme as well. Some even think that bringing up children in a Christian way is child abuse!
Anyway, against the incessant attacks on the Christian faith from many quarters (esp from the vocal militant atheists) the apostle Peter exhorted Christians to always be ready to offer a defense of the faith.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
you are the mother of all trollers here. I cant be bothered replying these days, cos all you do is sprouting nonsense, utter rubbish, full of garbage coming from you.
I see that you are still projecting.
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I came across this "Letter to an Atheist" which in some ways is similar to my first post.
Dear Atheist,
Before I ask you a few questions, I am going to be entirely honest with you right from the start and tell you that I dont believe you exist. By that, I do not mean you are not physically in existence. Clearly someone pressed the “send” button” to transfer the letter I found in my e-mail box this morning that reports to have come from you. I see no reason to question its authenticity.
What I mean is that I dont believe you are a true atheist. I dont just say that about you though, I say that about every professing atheist. That is because, from my worldview as a Bible believing Christian, the God who has clearly revealed Himself both through this natural order and in Scripture has told us:
Romans 1:18-22 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools…"
God does not believe that genuine atheists exist. He has made the truth of His existence known to you and you are suppressing this knowledge with all the mental gymnastics you can muster from a heart in defiance of Him. Actually, that leads me to my first question:
(1) Why do you spend so much time on the internet and in every other possible venue seeking to spew out hatred for a God you say you don't believe in? If he does not exist, why do you seem to hate Him so much?
(2) In your evolutionary material worldview, where all things came from minute particles of matter exploding, can you please explain where personality comes from? For instance, if all there ever was was rock, which rock decided to expand itself to think, to choose, to like, to dislike – and how exactly did it do that?
(Just telling you right up front, if your answer is “matter, if given a whole lot of time developed personality ” you will have lost me. Something without personality cannot develop personality whether left to itself for 5 minutes or 5 billion years. If you then say that science has yet to observe this but I am sure it will, once again you will have lost me. Science has not only never observed it, but it defies all its basic premises. You are merely hoping for something and that is not dealing with the present reality we all have to deal with, the data currently available to us).
(3) You seem hell bent (pardon the expression) on tearing down the God of the Bible suggesting He does not live according to His own standards of goodness. You say that if He is ultimately reponsible for all that is and all that happens in this world, this raises serious questions about His goodness. But may I ask, where are you even getting the concept of good? Aren’t you having to borrow from my worldview to even find such a thing as moral goodness? How can there be moral goodness in an atheistic worldview? Aren’t you left with only moral preferences – you prefer to eat nicely at a restaurant today rather than go on a genicidal run to exterminate all people from Iceland, but in your system, those who choose the latter are merely those with a different preference for the day. There is no right and wrong when ultimately there is no one to answer to. And if you say that society at large comes up with morality, then nothing is fixed, because society (if we mean by that, what most people in a society think) changes its view regularly (slavery was one considered acceptable in America, and now obviously is not).
As one man observed, “what makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?”
(4) Why not be a full blown, out in the open, militant racist? If all we are is grown up germs (in an evolutionary/atheistic framework) who cares if black grown up germs or white ones, sit at the back of the bus. We get rid of germs in the sink, why not get rid of grown up germs in our neighborhood?
You realize that because there is an ultimate law giver who has made His will known and to whom all of us in every culture is accountable, I know WHY such a thing is wrong, but where in your system can you say any of this slaughter of people of a different color is morally “wrong”?
(5) I have asked where you get morality. Now I ask you what it is. If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a morality is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?
(6) I know you believe in morality because you accuse God of not being moral enough, so please tell me, how did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective morality? As one man asked so well, “Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.”
For my part, I believe there is no moral “good” apart from the God you say you dont believe in, and whose character you question.
I look forward to receiving your reply.
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Christians always refer to themselves as sinners. Father forgive them, for they donno what they doing!
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
Christians always refer to themselves as sinners. Father forgive them, for they donno what they doing!
Correction. The Bible teaches that ALL have sinned. Christians are those who have accepted God's forgiveness in the work of Christ on the cross. That's what last week's Good Friday is about. Question to you is: Have you asked for God's forgiveness for your sins?
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thats funny, asking something that does not exists for forgiveness.
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Originally posted by Lucifer_tan:
thats funny, asking something that does not exists for forgiveness.
Which begs the question, how you know God does not exist? On what basis?
And it is also more funny that atheists rail their hatred and vitriol against a Being whom they believe does not exist. I think that most atheists are angry people and perhaps this is because they are also people who have been deeply hurt. Some may even lack of a father figure in their lives and thus project it into a denial of God.
See also http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Fatherless-The-Psychology-Atheism/dp/1890626252
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prove it if god exists? prove once and for all god exists so that it is an undeniable fact and it is written in science textbooks and journals that god exists. so far god exists in bible and christian figment of imagination is because you cant prove it. until you can prove it, god exists in the bible the way superman and batman exists in DC comics.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Which begs the question, how you know God does not exist? On what basis?
And it is also more funny that atheists rail their hatred and vitriol against a Being whom they believe does not exist. I think that most atheists are angry people and perhaps this is because they are also people who have been deeply hurt. Some may even lack of a father figure in their lives and thus project it into a denial of God.
See also http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Fatherless-The-Psychology-Atheism/dp/1890626252
then how do you know god exists? no religion can prove that their own god exists isn't it?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
prove it if god exists? prove once and for all god exists so that it is an undeniable fact and it is written in science textbooks and journals that god exists. so far god exists in bible and christian figment of imagination is because you cant prove it. until you can prove it, god exists in the bible the way superman and batman exists in DC comics.
Can you prove that God exists in the Bible the way Superman and Batman exists in DC comics? You made such a claim, prove it then. Let's see how you fare. Burden of proof ya?
Point is, you can't. Simply because you are ignorant of what constitutes proof and what kind of proofs we are talking about. Not only that, you are also grossly ignorant of what science is all about, what it can or cannot do. The very fact that you demand that God's existence be made clear in science textbooks clearly reveal your ignorance about science. You need to hit the books.
Simple fact: Science CANNOT prove the existence or non-existence of God.
But so far, in all my exchanges with you alone, you have utterly FAILED to address the issue of the cause of the existence of the universe. I have argued many times that the universe requires a cause because it has a beginning, and that the cause is God. It is the same logic used in arguing that a painting like the Mona Lisa has a painter, regardless of whether you have actually seen the painter or not. So take your place and explain for what caused the universe, and let's see if you talk sense or garbage.
But I think I can safely make a prediction here, that you will NOT attempt to even answer my question at all. Why? Because the atheist simply has NO answers. It's a bankrupt belief system. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Show me you have the intellectual mettle to answer this question instead of just going for personal attacks on me.