Originally posted by alize:So the question to you remains, WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE? Instead of talking about many things, let's just cut to the chase and sum it up at the level of the universe.
You have only TWO options as an atheist. Either the universe made itself from nothing, or it always existed. Take your pick and defend it.
Nobody knows what caused the universe. To scientific thinkers the question goes unanswered. Does it mean god made it?
If you choose to believe a fairy tale that your God made it in 7 days, so be it. Very logical of you.
Ignorance is not an answer nor an argument. In any case, if you don't know what caused the universe, how you KNOW it ain't God? It's not that the question goes unanswered, but that many scientists have ruled out God from the start. Tell me this ain't bias.
And you have yet to substantiate the allegation that my belief in 6 days creation is a fairy tale.
Mind you, evolutionists are the ones who believe that if you kiss a frog long enough it turns into a prince! Get my analogy?
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:god created the earth in 7 days lol. why 7 days, why not in an instant? you cant fathom this could you.
do you find this logical and coherent, that god created us so that we can worship god?
You are doubly wrong.
Firstly, God created the heavens and the earth and everything in it in SIX days, not seven. This stems from your ignorance of the Bible, or failure in English comprehension.
Secondly, contrary to your claim, the Christian KNOWS why God created in six days. This isn't a mystery to fathom at all. God told us why. In Exodus 20 God commanded His people to work six days and to keep the Sabbath holy. Why? Because God worked six days and rested on the seventh. It was a pattern for man to follow. And did you know that our 7 day week has no astronomical basis, unlike the day, month, or year? Only the Bible supplies the basis for that.
Sorry to bust your objection again, Jacky.
Originally posted by alize:
I just researched this. According to the bible,
1. Our Earth is older than the sun and the moon.
2. Our sun is the oldest star in the universe.
3. Yet light was created before the sun.
4. Day and night were created earlier than the sun.
5. Day and night are independent of the sun.
6. Before all the above was created, there were only two things. Water below and darkness above.
7. This applied throughout the universe. Water "down" and darkness "up". What to do, the concept of round earth was not known. Refer to day and night being independent of the sun.
8. I assume water was "down" because god hovered "over" the water.
Quoting Genesis:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. <animals, plants and dry land created...>
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
While I commend you for taking time to read the Bible, I cannot commend you for failing to interpret it correctly. You are taking a fault-finding approach. Just a short comment should suffice.
You don't need the sun to have day and night. All you need is a directional light source and a rotating earth. And the sun is not the only thing that gives out light. God is light. When Jesus was transfigured He shone brighter than the sun. God caused a temporary light source which was replaced by the sun on day four of creation week.
See http://creation.com/light-life-and-the-glory-of-god
Originally posted by BroInChrist:While I commend you for taking time to read the Bible, I cannot commend you for failing to interpret it correctly. You are taking a fault-finding approach. Just a short comment should suffice.
You don't need the sun to have day and night. All you need is a directional light source and a rotating earth. And the sun is not the only thing that gives out light. God is light. When Jesus was transfigured He shone brighter than the sun. God caused a temporary light source which was replaced by the sun on day four of creation week.
See http://creation.com/light-life-and-the-glory-of-god
BIC,
Errors are errrors. Stop trying to hide them.
Bats are birds, the bible says!
Originally posted by Tcmc:
alize,
the bible also says that bats are birds and that the mustard seed is the smallest. All wrong.
Nope. YOU are wrong. You are still misleading people after I have refuted you on these things.
The Hebrew word translated ‘bird’ is ‘ôwph, and simply means ‘winged/flying creature’—it is derived from ‘ûwph meaning ‘to fly’.
Taking it in context, which atheists rarely do with the Bible, the parable refers to the smallest seed that a Jewish farmer would sow in his field. It says that it would grow into the greatest of all herbs (KJV) or garden plants (NIV, NASB), not all plants. But this is missing the point anyway. Jesus was teaching that out of something tiny, something huge can grow.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:You are doubly wrong.
Firstly, God created the heavens and the earth and everything in it in SIX days, not seven. This stems from your ignorance of the Bible, or failure in English comprehension.
Secondly, contrary to your claim, the Christian KNOWS why God created in six days. This isn't a mystery to fathom at all. God told us why. In Exodus 20 God commanded His people to work six days and to keep the Sabbath holy. Why? Because God worked six days and rested on the seventh. It was a pattern for man to follow. And did you know that our 7 day week has no astronomical basis, unlike the day, month, or year? Only the Bible supplies the basis for that.
Sorry to bust your objection again, Jacky.
first, why should I want and keen to know the sorry state of the fairy tale called the bible, full of incredible and unbelievable tales concocted by ancient men?
second, you still dun get my dig on your god? why, has he or it, since god is not a man, he cannot be called him or he isnt it. I shall call it. Why doesnt it, in an instant, create heave, hell or whatever in an instant, rather 6 days? with his powers, why does it need to even work, when it can just will it to happen lol. pity you lack the intelligence and common sense to see my digging at it.
Tcmc is back.
Welcome back!
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:first, why should I want and keen to know the sorry state of the fairy tale called the bible, full of incredible and unbelievable tales concocted by ancient men?
second, you still dun get my dig on your god? why, has he or it, since god is not a man, he cannot be called him or he isnt it. I shall call it. Why doesnt it, in an instant, create heave, hell or whatever in an instant, rather 6 days? with his powers, why does it need to even work, when it can just will it to happen lol. pity you lack the intelligence and common sense to see my digging at it.
Again we see the intellectual dishonesty displayed by atheists the likes of Jacky Woo.
When a fully coherent Biblical answer is given that exposes his ignorance and which he is unable to refute, he starts invoking the apathy clause.
God can certainly create in an instant, or 6 days, or 6 billion years if He wants. But He chose to create in 6 days and rested for one, so that it serves as a pattern for man. How would you like 6 million years of work and 1 million years of rest? Duh!
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Again we see the intellectual dishonesty displayed by atheists the likes of Jacky Woo.
When a fully coherent Biblical answer is given that exposes his ignorance and which he is unable to refute, he starts invoking the apathy clause.
God can certainly create in an instant, or 6 days, or 6 billion years if He wants. But He chose to create in 6 days and rested for one, so that it serves as a pattern for man. How would you like 6 million years of work and 1 million years of rest? Duh!
hahaha as usual what a load of rubbish.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:hahaha as usual what a load of rubbish.
Scoffing does not amounts to a refutation. Again the act of scoffing speaks more about you.
thats why people shouldnt be allowed to propagate
they are on campaign against non-Christians
I spotted one when I was 18...
Rabbit, chewer of the cud? Don't care if it was already mention here... If a book that claims to be truth and contains logical flaw/s, those truths that it claim can be TOTALLY disregarded. However, its not meant to be a science text... more of a historical text.
But still Jesus is the one I'd follow... in essense.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Nope. YOU are wrong. You are still misleading people after I have refuted you on these things.
The Hebrew word translated ‘bird’ is ‘ôwph, and simply means ‘winged/flying creature’—it is derived from ‘ûwph meaning ‘to fly’.
Taking it in context, which atheists rarely do with the Bible, the parable refers to the smallest seed that a Jewish farmer would sow in his field. It says that it would grow into the greatest of all herbs (KJV) or garden plants (NIV, NASB), not all plants. But this is missing the point anyway. Jesus was teaching that out of something tiny, something huge can grow.
BIC,
Why do you have to go to such lengths to try to explain "for god"?
I mean, why didnt he just put bats as mammals, since he KNEW that we would be picking on this error now?
If he knew that there would be so much confusion and controversy over bats = birds in the bible, why didnt he just put the f* cking "mammal" word there?
BIC
Moreover,
There have been many issues that you have not resolved or explained. Like the ones where I don't understand why an all-powerful, all-merciful and all-loving god had to command "his people" to kill infants and old people.
If he's real and he's all-knowing, he knew even before creating us that we would screw up, all that HIS products would mess up. And he KNEW he would have to command his people to kill babies.
Yet he carried on with his "creation plans".
I really dont get his point.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Moreover,
There have been many issues that you have not resolved or explained. Like the ones where I don't understand why an all-powerful, all-merciful and all-loving god had to command "his people" to kill infants and old people.
If he's real and he's all-knowing, he knew even before creating us that we would screw up, all that HIS products would mess up. And he KNEW he would have to command his people to kill babies.
Yet he carried on with his "creation plans".
I really dont get his point.
hey dude, dun ask him this, cos he is not god, hence could not speak on god's behalf.
I guess you and I know jolly well that we will never get a reply on this, because, this type of question creates a paradox and they will never answer such a question, cos they dun have the answers too. we jolly well know inside if the religion is able to withstand the test of time and knowledge. enough said.
Originally posted by Aneslayer:I spotted one when I was 18...
Rabbit, chewer of the cud? Don't care if it was already mention here... If a book that claims to be truth and contains logical flaw/s, those truths that it claim can be TOTALLY disregarded. However, its not meant to be a science text... more of a historical text.
But still Jesus is the one I'd follow... in essense.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
Why do you have to go to such lengths to try to explain "for god"?
I mean, why didnt he just put bats as mammals, since he KNEW that we would be picking on this error now?
If he knew that there would be so much confusion and controversy over bats = birds in the bible, why didnt he just put the f* cking "mammal" word there?
Oh, I am sure you would wish that you can keep on attacking the Christian faith in this forum and that no one stand up to refute your objections, many of which are just plain silly and nonsensical. Like it or not, the apostle Peter exhorted believers to be ready to give a reason for our belief, and Jude commands believers to contend for the faith.
BTW, why should God inspire the writing of the Bible with fault-finding atheists like you in mind? You are just upset that your "bats are birds" objection has been thrashed, so now you change tact and complain that Bible did not say bats are mammals. That is just so lame and shows how desperate you are.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:hey dude, dun ask him this, cos he is not god, hence could not speak on god's behalf.
I guess you and I know jolly well that we will never get a reply on this, because, this type of question creates a paradox and they will never answer such a question, cos they dun have the answers too. we jolly well know inside if the religion is able to withstand the test of time and knowledge. enough said.
Well, I've got news for you. The critics have been hammering at the faith for more than 2000 years, and Christianity has withstood them all. The hammers have been all worn out but the anvil remains as ever.
Originally posted by Aneslayer:I spotted one when I was 18...
Rabbit, chewer of the cud? Don't care if it was already mention here... If a book that claims to be truth and contains logical flaw/s, those truths that it claim can be TOTALLY disregarded. However, its not meant to be a science text... more of a historical text.
But still Jesus is the one I'd follow... in essense.
Question is, if YOUR bible is "inspired by your god", how come there are errors?
You mean, the god who inspired the book isnt capable of making it perfect?
Or is the god who inspired the book "unwilling" to make it perfect? Why is he/she unwilling? Why confuse people?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Question is, if YOUR bible is "inspired by your god", how come there are errors?
You mean, the god who inspired the book isnt capable of making it perfect?
Or is the god who inspired the book "unwilling" to make it perfect? Why is he/she unwilling? Why confuse people?
You are just rehashing the same old objections which have already been answered in the other threads you created for the sole purpose of attacking Christianity. Please refer to those threads.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Moreover,
There have been many issues that you have not resolved or explained. Like the ones where I don't understand why an all-powerful, all-merciful and all-loving god had to command "his people" to kill infants and old people.
If he's real and he's all-knowing, he knew even before creating us that we would screw up, all that HIS products would mess up. And he KNEW he would have to command his people to kill babies.
Yet he carried on with his "creation plans".
I really dont get his point.
In school when you fail to understand the subject do you then resort to denying the existence of the subject or speak against it? So just because you fail to understand something does not mean you reject it.
Many books have been written on the subject of God's foreknowledge and human responsibility. Have you even read one of them? Or do you just use the same village atheist tactic of just attacking out of ignorance? And when the answer is given you change tact and say "Why should I care for your answer? You also not God."
Originally posted by BroInChrist:You are just rehashing the same old objections which have already been answered in the other threads you created for the sole purpose of attacking Christianity. Please refer to those threads.
Why you only use christian sources to support your christian beliefs?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Why you only use christian sources to support your christian beliefs?
Why you change subject again?
Why you ask the same question in this thread when you have asked and I have answered the very same question you asked in the other threads you created for the purpose of attacking Christianity?
To fault my sources for being Christian is to commit the genetic fallacy. In any case, I have used secular sources as well but apparently you have chosen to ignore it. Selective reading and cherry picking on your part?
BroInChrist, are you Singaporean? Rare to find such a commited christian in Singapore.
Disputes between science and christian religion are not that hotly debated in most asian countries since christianity is an alien religion in this region. So I am surprised.
Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:BroInChrist, are you Singaporean? Rare to find such a commited christian in Singapore.
Disputes between science and christian religion are not that hotly debated in most asian countries since christianity is an alien religion in this region. So I am surprised.
Actually, sadly, the number of christians like BIC in singapore is increasing. I was from an extreme church too. Extremism is based on a lot of emotions