Character of the Christian God
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?
Demon Bane
Yes. I see your point.
You're asking if God can have exceptions to "cross the line" sometimes, then it would be ok for him to tell his followers to wage war and kill like in the crusades.
Is that what's bothering u?
-
to tcmc,
ok, i leave him to justify wad he said...cos i didnt say tat...
to demon bane,
are the crusaders God? did God personally appoint them to kill? they claim to be appointed but were they? note tat in those cases in the bible. either God did it himself or God specifically appoint ppl to do it...its like the judge pass the sentence, the executioner act on his behalf...
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
Demon Bane
Yes. I see your point.
You're asking if God can have exceptions to "cross the line" sometimes, then it would be ok for him to tell his followers to wage war and kill like in the crusades.
Is that what's bothering u?
Yes, I'm afraid so....maybe my scripture knowledge is poor....any good answers to this issue ?
-
Originally posted by despondent:
to tcmc,
ok, i leave him to justify wad he said...cos i didnt say tat...
to demon bane,
are the crusaders God? did God personally appoint them to kill? they claim to be appointed but were they? note tat in those cases in the bible. either God did it himself or God specifically appoint ppl to do it...its like the judge pass the sentence, the executioner act on his behalf...
But in the bible, God also told his people to wipe out Amalekite children, women and babies? So weren't the crusaders just doing what God's people did in the bible?
What's the difference that cause you to say that God's ppl was right to wipe out amalek children but it was wrong for crusaders to do the same thing? I am curious. thanks
I am not concluding if you're right or wrong. I just want to know a christian's POV regarding this
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC,
So in other words, there are some situations that would allow us to "sin" or in this case to lie, right?
Tcmc,
I believe in a hierarchy of values. A higher value overrides a lower one. If withholding the truth to an evil man is what it takes to preserve the life of a loved one, then it is not a sin to deny the evil man the truth. But please answer my question concerning the scenario of evil man raping your sister.
-
to christians, the bible is evidence of wad God said...so since its in the bible, its clear God appointed them...
But wad the crusaders said, is it validated by any source? its nowhere in the bible too...also, nowhere in the bible is it stated tat God will continue to appoint ppl to kill until the end of time...
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?
Demon Bane,
This begs the question: Where does the Bible teach that Christians can kill or murder in God's name? Please give a specific teaching of Christ or the apostles to this effect. I know not of such a teaching. But if I am ignorant of it then please enlighten me.
-
Originally posted by despondent:
to christians, the bible is evidence of wad God said...so since its in the bible, its clear God appointed them...
But wad the crusaders said, is it validated by any source? its nowhere in the bible too...also, nowhere in the bible is it stated tat God will continue to appoint ppl to kill until the end of time...
So lets say if someone includes the crusades into the bible, it's correcT?
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
But in the bible, God also told his people to wipe out Amalekite children, women and babies? So weren't the crusaders just doing what God's people did in the bible?
What's the difference that cause you to say that God's ppl was right to wipe out amalek children but it was wrong for crusaders to do the same thing? I am curious. thanks
I am not concluding if you're right or wrong. I just want to know a christian's POV regarding this
Tcmc,
Tthe command to wipe out certain groups of people was given to a specific people for a specific purpose for a specific time. It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. If it was then we should expect the NT to also continue to teach it. Eh, I thought you study the Bible deep deep? How come it still does not show?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Demon Bane,
This begs the question: Where does the Bible teach that Christians can kill or murder in God's name? Please give a specific teaching of Christ or the apostles to this effect. I know not of such a teaching. But if I am ignorant of it then please enlighten me.
BIC
Actually if you regard the OT God as Jesus Christ, then there are many OT passages that tell us about God "wiping out sinners" in His Name.
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
So lets say if someone includes the crusades into the bible, it's correcT?
Fact is, it is not. So deal with it. If you have no case, don't try to concoct one. What's your intention?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Fact is, it is not. So deal with it. If you have no case, don't try to concoct one. What's your intention?
Just going by despondent's logic of "if its in the bible, its correct"
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
Actually if you regard the OT God as Jesus Christ, then there are many OT passages that tell us about God "wiping out sinners" in His Name.
Tcmc,
Does God not have the right to use whoever He chooses to carry out His judgement on sin? What does the Bible says about the moral condition of the Amalekites and those who should be completely annihilated? You did your "objective" Bible study so can you enlighten us here? Or do you need me to expose your ignorance on this also?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Tthe command to wipe out certain groups of people was given to a specific people for a specific purpose for a specific time. It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. If it was then we should expect the NT to also continue to teach it. Eh, I thought you study the Bible deep deep? How come it still does not show?
BIC
"It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. "
I get you. It's acceptable for God to wipe out Amalek babies in the OT but not acceptable in the 11th century or now.
Thanks :)
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
Just going by despondent's logic of "if its in the bible, its correct"
Tcmc,
Wrong. Don't assume that what's recorded in the Bible means it is approved or endorsed. The Bible records the many evil deeds of people, but this does not mean it approves or endorses evil. Get this right.
-
yes. if its in the bible then its correct BUT only for that case...''crossing the line'' is only case-by-case basis, dun u agree? it doesnt mean all crusaders in future can do the same...
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Wrong. Don't assume that what's recorded in the Bible means it is approved or endorsed. The Bible records the many evil deeds of people, but this does not mean it approves or endorses evil. Get this right.
Thanks, tell that to despondent.
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC
"It is unwarranted of you to assume that this localised command should be universal across space and time. "
I get you. It's acceptable for God to wipe out Amalek babies in the OT but not acceptable in the 11th century or now.
Thanks :)
Tcmc,
Again this shows your FAILURE to study the Bible. If I said something to A, do you then assume it is for you too? The Bible says that Israel should walk round Jericho 7 times, does it mean Christians today should also do that today? Use your brain can?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Does God not have the right to use whoever He chooses to carry out His judgement on sin? What does the Bible says about the moral condition of the Amalekites and those who should be completely annihilated? You did your "objective" Bible study so can you enlighten us here? Or do you need me to expose your ignorance on this also?
You think it's ok to take someone's life because of sin in the name of God. I dont think so and i will never support it
That's our difference. :)
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Again this shows your FAILURE to study the Bible. If I said something to A, do you then assume it is for you too? The Bible says that Israel should walk round Jericho 7 times, does it mean Christians today should also do that today? Use your brain can?
Exaclty
You're saying many things were acceptable 4000 years ago ,but now many things that they did are now unacceptable.
Thats what you're saying
-
Originally posted by Tcmc:
You think it's ok to take someone's life because of sin in the name of God. I dont think so and i will never support it
That's our difference. :)
Tcmc,
I believe it is OK to punish sin. We also do it in our courts of law when we punish wrongdoing. The question is in who has the authority to effect or impose that punishment. Back in the OT, God would be the one to command it. Israel cannot do it on her own terms and decision. The same with our laws. Only the judge can set the punishment, we cannot be our own vigilantes.
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
I believe it is OK to punish sin. We also do it in our courts of law when we punish wrongdoing. The question is in who has the authority to effect or impose that punishment. Back in the OT, God would be the one to command it. Israel cannot do it on her own terms and decision. The same with our laws. Only the judge can set the punishment, we cannot be our own vigilantes.
1. So essentially are you saying " it's ok to take someone's life because of sin in the name of God. "?
2. But what about the amalek babies? What wrong have they done? : (
-
tcmc,
so are u suggesting that the executioner shld be hanged for killing the criminal?
-
Originally posted by despondent:
tcmc,
so are u suggesting that the executioner shld be hanged for killing the criminal?
No. Where did you infer that from? But if the executioner executes a baby, then maybe yes.
-
tcmc,
ever heard of the whole family getting killed cos one member committed a heinous crime?