Is there a law to ban evangelizing in public?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
What was their crime? They were distributing materials that were deemed offensive to other religions. Distributing tracts itself was NOT the offense they were indicted for. If I distribute Christmas tracts that preach Jesus as the reason for the season, you think this is against the law? Of course not. You can throw away the tract just like you throw away the housing agent tracts.
Their crime was incitng hate. Their vehicle was aggressive insensitive evangelism.
Of cos distributing tracta bout christmas wouldnt be offensive. THats a mild form of evangelism.
I am talking about the couple's form of aggressive evangelism
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Their crime was incitng hate. Their vehicle was aggressive insensitive evangelism.
Of cos distributing tracta bout christmas wouldnt be offensive. THats a mild form of evangelism.
I am talking about the couple's form of aggressive evangelism
Tcmc,
You are confused as usual. If the issue is unethical evangelism, then deal with that. Since you agree that tracting is not an offense, then be clear on that. Their crime was to distribute tracts of a certain content that was offensive to another religion.
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I think anything aggressive should be avoided....christians must be more tactful....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I think anything aggressive should be avoided....christians must be more tactful....
To say aggressive is not saying much. If you are very sensitive, you can even say handing a tract to you is aggressive. And have you heard the complaint that talking about Christianity on forums is aggressive because it is shoving the Gospel down the throats of people? This is patently absurd because each person controls what he clicks and what he wants to read and see. But the point I am making is that whether it is aggressive or not very much depends and differs from person-to-person. So long as you are not held against your will or is physically manhandled or is being stalked like a hawk, I think it doesn't fit the idea of aggressive. Heck, some may even think singing carols is offensive!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
To say aggressive is not saying much. If you are very sensitive, you can even say handing a tract to you is aggressive. And have you heard the complaint that talking about Christianity on forums is aggressive because it is shoving the Gospel down the throats of people? This is patently absurd because each person controls what he clicks and what he wants to read and see. But the point I am making is that whether it is aggressive or not very much depends and differs from person-to-person. So long as you are not held against your will or is physically manhandled or is being stalked like a hawk, I think it doesn't fit the idea of aggressive. Heck, some may even think singing carols is offensive!
Okay ok...its subjective...but following me and talking non-stop for 25 mins was really aggressive...even after I'd said no many times....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Okay ok...its subjective...but following me and talking non-stop for 25 mins was really aggressive...even after I'd said no many times....
I would agree with you on that. The same goes for street touts or walking salesmen who walk with you for even more than 30 seconds!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I would agree with you on that. The same goes for street touts or walking salesmen who walk with you for even more than 30 seconds!
Hahaha! They are just over-zealous....I know some who are like that....so I stay away from them....I know they just wanna share the "good news" to more people...but they should be more tactful like I've said...otherwise their efforts may even back-fire....
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I have already proved that evangelism is lawful, the ball is in your court to prove that banning evangelism is lawful in the eyes of law, and as the Constitution now stands.
You were the one who state banning evangelism is unlawful, shouldnt it be you who prove it?Woah, say something push the ball to other people..good sia u
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
You are confused as usual. If the issue is unethical evangelism, then deal with that. Since you agree that tracting is not an offense, then be clear on that. Their crime was to distribute tracts of a certain content that was offensive to another religion.
I dont know why you are so defensive. I never once said that evangelism is illegal or that tracting is illegal in singapore.
I merely said that aggressive/offending evangelism can be illegal. And to know what is offending, you got to look at the context.
Dont you agree that some forms of evangelism is illegal? E.g In singapore, preaching about christianity to a muslim is illegal and in the case of the christian couple, it is also illegal
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Hahaha! They are just over-zealous....I know some who are like that....so I stay away from them....I know they just wanna share the "good news" to more people...but they should be more tactful like I've said...otherwise their efforts may even back-fire....
So for these people we just learn to tolerate them lor. No need to call down the police on them. These are minor inconveniences. Be gracious, overlook, move on.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
You were the one who state banning evangelism is unlawful, shouldnt it be you who prove it?Woah, say something push the ball to other people..good sia u
Failed to read. It is unlawful because it is lawful to propagate religion. You can't have contradicting laws lah! You wanna ban evangelism, first remove Article 15(1).
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
I dont know why you are so defensive. I never once said that evangelism is illegal or that tracting is illegal in singapore.
I merely said that aggressive/offending evangelism can be illegal. And to know what is offending, you got to look at the context.
Dont you agree that some forms of evangelism is illegal? E.g In singapore, preaching about christianity to a muslim is illegal and in the case of the christian couple, it is also illegal
Like I said, it is the CONTENT of the message that gets one into trouble. Is preaching to a Muslim illegal? I don't know, can you cite a law saying that? Some actions may violate the religious harmony bill, and that really depends on a case-by-case basis. I don't think there is anything to say that one form of evangelism is illegal. But I am ready to be corrected if you can cite some law on that.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Failed to read. It is unlawful because it is lawful to propagate religion. You can't have contradicting laws lah! You wanna ban evangelism, first remove Article 15(1).
But banning it, isnt unlawful either. So pls prove it. -
Originally posted by laurence82:
But banning it, isnt unlawful either. So pls prove it.
That should be for you to prove, not me. Please get this right: the reason why I say it is unlawful to ban evangelism is because the Constitution provides and protects for the freedom of religion and its propagation. To ban evangelism is to act against the Constitution. If you insist that doing so is lawful, then you have to prove it. It is really absurd to ask me to prove it is unlawful to ban evangelism when it should be you proving that it is lawful, and when I have already shown that evangelism is provided and protected by law. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
That should be for you to prove, not me. Please get this right: the reason why I say it is unlawful to ban evangelism is because the Constitution provides and protects for the freedom of religion and its propagation. To ban evangelism is to act against the Constitution. If you insist that doing so is lawful, then you have to prove it. It is really absurd to ask me to prove it is unlawful to ban evangelism when it should be you proving that it is lawful, and when I have already shown that evangelism is provided and protected by law.
You are the one who originally make such statement, you should be the one proving itI dont clean up the mess you created
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Originally posted by laurence82:
You are the one who originally make such statement, you should be the one proving itI dont clean up the mess you created
You were the one who messed up. Don't push your mess to me. You said it is not unlawful to ban evangelism, so prove it. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Why should evangelism be banned? Where is the tolerance for the religious activities of others? Many religions are missionary religions, to ban evangelism means to criminalise certain religions and this also violates the Constitution of Singapore.
This was the very first statement you made, 5th Dec, on 12.09 am
You said banning evangelism violate the constitution, so prove it
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Originally posted by laurence82:
This was the very first statement you made, 5th Dec, on 12.09 am
You said banning evangelism violate the constitution, so prove it
Don't waste my time lah. If banning evangelism is not a violation of the Constitution then I don't know what is. In any case, you JUST made the claim again that it is lawful, so you prove it. -
You originally made the claim its unlawful, so pls prove it
You are wasting time trying to skirt the issue. Facing it would be time saving and hopefully face saving for you.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Okay ok...its subjective...but following me and talking non-stop for 25 mins was really aggressive...even after I'd said no many times....
for 25 mins? hahaha...it is not something he or she has to offer, but you must have something he or she is interested in.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
for 25 mins? hahaha...it is not something he or she has to offer, but you must have something he or she is interested in.
Yup..those people are fanatical and too zealous...Hahaha! I just try to stay away....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Yup..those people are fanatical and too zealous...Hahaha! I just try to stay away....
yeah, there are also fanatical trollsjust look at the likes of Badzmaro or BIC
*shudders*
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Originally posted by laurence82:
yeah, there are also fanatical trollsjust look at the likes of Badzmaro or BIC
*shudders*
Yes!! Great at faultfinding.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
Yes!! Great at faultfinding.
if i am from PAP, i go make sure my house is clean first before i go point fingers at WPand not ignore that i have Ms Kate Spade..lol
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Hey Rooney
I know it's all not true now.
But at that point of time, leaving christianity meant that my church friends would all stay away from me. And they did.
So i lost alot when i left the religion.
But then I realise that if they left me because of religion, then they were not truly my friends. :)
U go bro.Those are truly not your friends. U can do with out them.