To save oneself from facing all these problems, pray and worship God at home and any where else , not necessary to attend church.
Church is a community, I respect that it needs some kind of a structure to run smoothly. If Churches view power, manipulation and approval as top priorities they have no love for people as the bible so clearly stated about the love of God.
SErving in Churches is really out of one's free will and to some it is the calling from God. Serving in churches does not equate blessings from God.
New christians, old christians, and non christians are all precious where the Almighty God is concerned.
Originally posted by laurence82:some people dont understand
after all the facts been presented
after 10 out of 10 people go in and tell him how wrong he is
he is still stuck in denial
well, but then again, like super expected
Evil creature is one problematic ass. He has the propensity to oppose for the sake of opposing and draw attention to asself.
I see evil creature as being guilty conscious, so desperate to defend. Truth really hurts. What is being said here pricks his conscience and he is trying to put a stop for discussion about it. words here are not pleasing to his reading.
He rather chooses to be stubborn to take comments here seriously than to lose his ass' face.
By the way, he has all the "symptoms" of a bad christian.
I think you guys are not looking at the complexities within the church itself.
Admittedly there are always "bad" and "good" christians.
And back to the main topic of new vs old members and the treatment, I think before we really start to criticise, which is always easy, we have to also always look at ourselves. I mean, seriously.
I know of christians that have all the motives of.. sales la.. finding gf/bf,praise n worship to promote themselves rather than glorifying God, PRCs finding PRs .. yada yada. It is unfortunate that this happens. Given the religion itself is of love and all that good stuff, its hard or difficult or even impossible to turn away the "bad" ones.
I mean, if Jesus gave us chances, why shouldnt we right ? In the end, alot of times its how the word is being preached. There are churches that believes that praise and worship is to glorify God, but then there are Churches that think that God is so almighty he doesnt need u to gloryfy him, but instead use the songs to touch yourselves those around you.
I get it. Really. I mean. You say serving in Churches is really out of one's free will and to some it is the calling from God. Sure. I mean its really easy to say that.
Any of you church goers ever really served ? I mean like REALLY REALLY served. I mean, being the sound technician + choir conductor + teacher for free violin classes + praise and worship group ? I am not talking about ushers and that stuff. I am talking about REAL responsibilities. And no, i am not looking down at the ushers. It is a piss easy job in comparison. But they are a equally as important and relevant part to the church itself. I am talking about the nature, degree and scope of it's responsibbilities. Its tough. Yes. And not to mention, the members in your group that so neeeed the love and care. I mean seriously ? Not to mention your other obligations in your personal life.
Sure you can say half is free will and the other half is something like being asked to. You can reject right ? But then again, you have the power and ability to change and help. So which is it ? Even if the pianist is being a dick, or the group leader always tell u last minute stuff.
Was I frustrated ? Pissed ? Annoyed ? Tired ? Hell yeah. I mean. But a real man dont bitch and moan. You get your act together you get your shit done. If you really do not think that the church is not the way it should be, you can leave. And when you find a church that is totally free of any of this kind of stuff. Hook me up. In the meantime, I still gotta suck it in and deal with these "bad christians" that yous all characterise as.
But thats still not going to change the fact that I myself have problems too. U see those really good and nice christians ? Yup. They the ones that always get bullied. Yup. The ones that genuinely help you, but they are also the ones that are the most vulnerable to the christians and non-christians that have ulterior motives. I am serious. You CANT be so innocent, good and nice or niang and be shrewd, calculative and manly too.You are just contradicting yourself. And it's just going to tear yourself up inside.
Parn to me is just oversimplyfying and overgeneralising the complexities within the church and the psychological makeup. I agree in some of Parn's opinion, but thats her opinion. And I will be equally naive and gullibile to totally discount what Parn said. And yes, it does happen. Have I been condemned before ? Yes. Have I been ridiculed ? Yes. Have I had my faith questioned before on when I was give the position of responsibility? Yes .Have I ever decided to fold and belly up due to these pressure ? HELL YEAH.
You got your pragmatists, you got ur liberals, and u got your whatever committee people, cell group leaders.. all that and you have to encompass all these things under the churches roof. Its not easy. If you really want to preach the REAL TRUE WAY like you so want it to be, be a pastor.
Have the old members ever brushed me aside ? Yes. But is there old members that still genuinely care ? Yes too. Then u got cellgroup leaders that have about 10 to 20 people under them + they hold responsibilities within teh church itself and definately there will come when someone somewhere... is feeling the lack of love and attention. Sure. What if you have lack of manpower to begin with ? U see the problem ?
And since you say that once u get to know them, they are ugly on the inside. Well, HELLO.. are ALL friendly and nice christians like that ? We ALL have faults. We ALL have weaknesses. You gotta give these people a chance. And like u said it, God is the one that will bring the hand of justice on their ass right ? So why fret so much.
If you really believe that the church has lost it's way. You got the balls, you stand up and voice it out. You ask ur group leaders, your cell group leaders.Or you can just leave. Or discard the religion. Really. Like you guys said it. Free will and all that good stuff. And I am sure you all will come out with some justifications to yourself in your actions.
It's like is anybody even going to be bothered to read this wall of text ? I dont know. But at least I tried. If I get shafted, well, what can I say right ? I am not here to force compliance. Only understanding.
Its very demanding to be a Christian. Really.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont in almost anything you do. But at least in the end of the day, when it's all over and as your life-force slowly trickles away,
You look back and u tell yourself "At least I tried... I tried to live the way of Jesus". And only the Almighty is going to know if u really tried.
Originally posted by onźźa:
Evil creature is one problematic ass. He has the propensity to oppose for the sake of opposing and draw attention to asself.I see evil creature as being guilty conscious, so desperate to defend. Truth really hurts. What is being said here pricks his conscience and he is trying to put a stop for discussion about it. words here are not pleasing to his reading.
He rather chooses to be stubborn to take comments here seriously than to lose his ass' face.
By the way, he has all the "symptoms" of a bad christian.
I hv one over in my company. My manager.
I think if we try and correct the way the statement is being framed as more like
"Why do some/most/majority/minority(ones i met) Christians who are only friendly to new christians only ? And when you actually get to know them.. they are ugly on the inside?"
Then I would say. I dont know. lol. Maybe because they do not yet fully understand what it is being a Christian ? I not a mind reader. I do not have that ability. Maybe U can ask THAT friendly christian ? It IS in the Bible too u know. I normally dont quote verses, but since I remember one being quoted in my thread some time ago, here it is :-
Consider James 5:20, "let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."
Something like that. I would think that it would be much more easier to confront the Christian with his own verse right ? And maybe after the battle of the verses you both can actually learn something ? Just a thought.
So yeah. Thats my 2 cents. lol
Originally posted by onźźa:
Evil creature is one problematic ass. He has the propensity to oppose for the sake of opposing and draw attention to asself.I see evil creature as being guilty conscious, so desperate to defend. Truth really hurts. What is being said here pricks his conscience and he is trying to put a stop for discussion about it. words here are not pleasing to his reading.
He rather chooses to be stubborn to take comments here seriously than to lose his ass' face.
By the way, he has all the "symptoms" of a bad christian.
he is one bad ass christian
he can try to defend all he wants, but he is downright hypocrite, many people here can see that he is
Originally posted by BadzMaro:I think you guys are not looking at the complexities within the church itself.
Admittedly there are always "bad" and "good" christians.
And back to the main topic of new vs old members and the treatment, I think before we really start to criticise, which is always easy, we have to also always look at ourselves. I mean, seriously.
I know of christians that have all the motives of.. sales la.. finding gf/bf,praise n worship to promote themselves rather than glorifying God, PRCs finding PRs .. yada yada. It is unfortunate that this happens. Given the religion itself is of love and all that good stuff, its hard or difficult or even impossible to turn away the "bad" ones.
I mean, if Jesus gave us chances, why shouldnt we right ? In the end, alot of times its how the word is being preached. There are churches that believes that praise and worship is to glorify God, but then there are Churches that think that God is so almighty he doesnt need u to gloryfy him, but instead use the songs to touch yourselves those around you.
I get it. Really. I mean. You say serving in Churches is really out of one's free will and to some it is the calling from God. Sure. I mean its really easy to say that.
Any of you church goers ever really served ? I mean like REALLY REALLY served. I mean, being the sound technician + choir conductor + teacher for free violin classes + praise and worship group ? I am not talking about ushers and that stuff. I am talking about REAL responsibilities. And no, i am not looking down at the ushers. It is a piss easy job in comparison. But they are a equally as important and relevant part to the church itself. I am talking about the nature, degree and scope of it's responsibbilities. Its tough. Yes. And not to mention, the members in your group that so neeeed the love and care. I mean seriously ? Not to mention your other obligations in your personal life.
Sure you can say half is free will and the other half is something like being asked to. You can reject right ? But then again, you have the power and ability to change and help. So which is it ? Even if the pianist is being a dick, or the group leader always tell u last minute stuff.
Was I frustrated ? Pissed ? Annoyed ? Tired ? Hell yeah. I mean. But a real man dont bitch and moan. You get your act together you get your shit done. If you really do not think that the church is not the way it should be, you can leave. And when you find a church that is totally free of any of this kind of stuff. Hook me up. In the meantime, I still gotta suck it in and deal with these "bad christians" that yous all characterise as.
But thats still not going to change the fact that I myself have problems too. U see those really good and nice christians ? Yup. They the ones that always get bullied. Yup. The ones that genuinely help you, but they are also the ones that are the most vulnerable to the christians and non-christians that have ulterior motives. I am serious. You CANT be so innocent, good and nice or niang and be shrewd, calculative and manly too.You are just contradicting yourself. And it's just going to tear yourself up inside.
Parn to me is just oversimplyfying and overgeneralising the complexities within the church and the psychological makeup. I agree in some of Parn's opinion, but thats her opinion. And I will be equally naive and gullibile to totally discount what Parn said. And yes, it does happen. Have I been condemned before ? Yes. Have I been ridiculed ? Yes. Have I had my faith questioned before on when I was give the position of responsibility? Yes .Have I ever decided to fold and belly up due to these pressure ? HELL YEAH.
You got your pragmatists, you got ur liberals, and u got your whatever committee people, cell group leaders.. all that and you have to encompass all these things under the churches roof. Its not easy. If you really want to preach the REAL TRUE WAY like you so want it to be, be a pastor.
Have the old members ever brushed me aside ? Yes. But is there old members that still genuinely care ? Yes too. Then u got cellgroup leaders that have about 10 to 20 people under them + they hold responsibilities within teh church itself and definately there will come when someone somewhere... is feeling the lack of love and attention. Sure. What if you have lack of manpower to begin with ? U see the problem ?
And since you say that once u get to know them, they are ugly on the inside. Well, HELLO.. are ALL friendly and nice christians like that ? We ALL have faults. We ALL have weaknesses. You gotta give these people a chance. And like u said it, God is the one that will bring the hand of justice on their ass right ? So why fret so much.
If you really believe that the church has lost it's way. You got the balls, you stand up and voice it out. You ask ur group leaders, your cell group leaders.Or you can just leave. Or discard the religion. Really. Like you guys said it. Free will and all that good stuff. And I am sure you all will come out with some justifications to yourself in your actions.
It's like is anybody even going to be bothered to read this wall of text ? I dont know. But at least I tried. If I get shafted, well, what can I say right ? I am not here to force compliance. Only understanding.
Its very demanding to be a Christian. Really.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont in almost anything you do. But at least in the end of the day, when it's all over and as your life-force slowly trickles away,
You look back and u tell yourself "At least I tried... I tried to live the way of Jesus". And only the Almighty is going to know if u really tried.
I agreed that christians can choose to serve GOD by serving in their churches. But does christians understand how does serving in their churches really relate to serving GOD?
To put it in simpler terms, serving in church is meant to serve the people in the church. It's serving the PEOPLE and not really the organisation itself. Many christians had the impression that serving church is the same as serving The Church organisation.
If your fellow christians requires help/assistance and you are able to help them willingly and unconditionally out from your heart and soul to do it, then by all means please SERVE and offer your SERVICE to those fellow christians with all your heart and might. IF you aren't 100% convicted to help your fellow christians, then you are not ready to serve and it's better not to serve without a heart to serve. GOD will not be unhappy with you or angry with you because GOD knows you more than you know yourself and HE can understand that you are not ready. To serve without a heart to serve is lying, and it would be good to take note of this common sin.
I serve the people around me, christians and non-christians alike and I do not serve only christians. IF GOD wants us to spread the gospel and love one another, then certainly our level of servitude should extend beyond christians only, we must also be able to serve non-christians and show them our conviction. I have seen and known christians who only want to serve christians and yet they can warmly welcome visitors, new believers in churches even though their conviction is to serve christians exclusively only.
It's not really demanding to be a christian, you serve out of your heart and what you are willing and convicted to provide. And as long as you are serving from your heart, you are still serving even if you can only give 1% of your might compared to other christians who can give 10% of their might.
Do not overly impress GOD if you do not have the heart to do so, that would be the same as lying to your own faith. GOD understands who you are and what you are capable of at the present moment, even though Humans do not understand who you are and your relationship with GOD. Who cares what other Humans judged of your actions and behaviour IF GOD does not judge if you are worthy of becoming HIS follower when you first seeked HIM?
You do not need to look back at anything if you have lived your christian life the way according to your love for GOD. YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK FORWARD WITH GOD AND LOOK TO BUILD UP A HEART TO LOVE, OBEY AND SERVE GOD MORE WITH EVERY STEP IN YOUR JOURNEY CALLED LIFE.
Originally posted by parn:
I agreed that christians can choose to serve GOD by serving in their churches. But does christians understand how does serving in their churches really relate to serving GOD?To put it in simpler terms, serving in church is meant to serve the people in the church. It's serving the PEOPLE and not really the organisation itself. Many christians had the impression that serving church is the same as serving The Church organisation.
If your fellow christians requires help/assistance and you are able to help them willingly and unconditionally out from your heart and soul to do it, then by all means please SERVE and offer your SERVICE to those fellow christians with all your heart and might. IF you aren't 100% convicted to help your fellow christians, then you are not ready to serve and it's better not to serve without a heart to serve. GOD will not be unhappy with you or angry with you because GOD knows you more than you know yourself and HE can understand that you are not ready. To serve without a heart to serve is lying, and it would be good to take note of this common sin.
I serve the people around me, christians and non-christians alike and I do not serve only christians. IF GOD wants us to spread the gospel and love one another, then certainly our level of servitude should extend beyond christians only, we must also be able to serve non-christians and show them our conviction. I have seen and known christians who only want to serve christians and yet they can warmly welcome visitors, new believers in churches even though their conviction is to serve christians exclusively only.
It's not really demanding to be a christian, you serve out of your heart and what you are willing and convicted to provide. And as long as you are serving from your heart, you are still serving even if you can only give 1% of your might compared to other christians who can give 10% of their might.
Do not overly impress GOD if you do not have the heart to do so, that would be the same as lying to your own faith. GOD understands who you are and what you are capable of at the present moment, even though Humans do not understand who you are and your relationship with GOD. Who cares what other Humans judged of your actions and behaviour IF GOD does not judge if you are worthy of becoming HIS follower when you first seeked HIM?
You do not need to look back at anything if you have lived your christian life the way according to your love for GOD. YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK FORWARD WITH GOD AND LOOK TO BUILD UP A HEART TO LOVE, OBEY AND SERVE GOD MORE WITH EVERY STEP IN YOUR JOURNEY CALLED LIFE.
By the looks of this post, its all good with what you say and all.I mean in theory, if all the praise and worship people.. the church goers.. etc all really do as what u say, it would be Heaven On Earth already.But it isnt. And while I do not totally agree on how simple and non-demanding you make it seem to be, I mean, I would wish it's really that simple.
If it were true, then you wouldve been more accomodating towards those "friendly" or "bad" Christian. But its not so simple as it is as u now realise.
"I serve the people around me, christians and non-christians alike and I do not serve only christians. IF GOD wants us to spread the gospel and love one another, then certainly our level of servitude should extend beyond christians only, we must also be able to serve non-christians and show them our conviction. I have seen and known christians who only want to serve christians and yet they can warmly welcome visitors, new believers in churches even though their conviction is to serve christians exclusively only."
Many good christians spread the word genuinely but as you can see from EH, not many people like it, infact, they despise it. And they will come down calling christians arrogant or intolerant and that stuff. Like I said, u cant be preaching about peace in an unsafe environment while holding a gun. Being pragmatic n u will be condemend for your fundamantelist ways, but being a liberal, and u are criticised for no longer truly living by the word of God. Its not easy man.
And its exactly how difficult it is. The whole point IS to spread the gospel. Its not IF God wants us to spread the gospel. It is part of Christianity itself to spread the gospel through different ways. Thats why the Methodist schools, the Red Cross... etc.
Perhaps its the way the gospel is being spread ? The very way how it is being spread? The inadequacues of ones own understanding of the Bible ? Perhaps ?I dont know.
I am just saying, I wish it is that simple, maybe I am the one that is making it complicated or due to a complicated life and my ego and arrogance in trying to outperform outdo anyone and everyone(Which are traits I am trying to overcome),but when you got those genuinely good Christians come breaking down on you crying about how people are treating them and all that. Its sad man. While I wish to be like them.. I also wish I am not like them.
Your post should be printed out and distributed within your church and perhaps to those guys u mentioned. Maybe to ALL Christians.
Maybe its not demanding to you, but it is definately very demanding to me.Trust me. When you got psychotic anti-christians, anti-religious people and even fellow Christians all around you, they will be hounding your ass, every single move you make, every single decision you take, and they will come and challenge the very way a supposedly Christian should live by. So yes, it is demanding.
Thats why it's true how they say, it's easier to live life without religion. You answer to no one. But to yourself.
If you really do what u preach lilke in this post, I really give u the stamp of approval. But dont get angry, I am just going to use the 40K ring example, and how its hard to reconcile with your above post. Because that is also fundamental in how you precieve things and the way Christians should lead their life. Hope you understand what I mean.
Hi BadzMaro,
Thanks for giving us an insight into Christian life.
The problem is just that there are too many fake christians and too few faithful ones, and this is a problem that permeates the entire Christian community at all levels. A lot of people, including myself, have bad experiences with people who likes to invoke the name of God and Christianity, and hence Christian forums tend to be the targets for flame wars.
I read thru your post, and I like how you explain the difficulties faced by a good Christian. Fake christians simply joined a church for dubious purposes, and should not be considered as Christians. Therefore you do not have to bother with defending the actions of those black sheeps, 'cos it's really not your fault. Otherwise it will just burn you out and distract you from seeking God.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:By the looks of this post, its all good with what you say and all.I mean in theory, if all the praise and worship people.. the church goers.. etc all really do as what u say, it would be Heaven On Earth already.But it isnt. And while I do not totally agree on how simple and non-demanding you make it seem to be, I mean, I would wish it's really that simple.
If it were true, then you wouldve been more accomodating towards those "friendly" or "bad" Christian. But its not so simple as it is as u now realise.
"I serve the people around me, christians and non-christians alike and I do not serve only christians. IF GOD wants us to spread the gospel and love one another, then certainly our level of servitude should extend beyond christians only, we must also be able to serve non-christians and show them our conviction. I have seen and known christians who only want to serve christians and yet they can warmly welcome visitors, new believers in churches even though their conviction is to serve christians exclusively only."
Many good christians spread the word genuinely but as you can see from EH, not many people like it, infact, they despise it. And they will come down calling christians arrogant or intolerant and that stuff. Like I said, u cant be preaching about peace in an unsafe environment while holding a gun. Being pragmatic n u will be condemend for your fundamantelist ways, but being a liberal, and u are criticised for no longer truly living by the word of God. Its not easy man.
And its exactly how difficult it is. The whole point IS to spread the gospel. Its not IF God wants us to spread the gospel. It is part of Christianity itself to spread the gospel through different ways. Thats why the Methodist schools, the Red Cross... etc.
Perhaps its the way the gospel is being spread ? The very way how it is being spread? The inadequacues of ones own understanding of the Bible ? Perhaps ?I dont know.
I am just saying, I wish it is that simple, maybe I am the one that is making it complicated or due to a complicated life and my ego and arrogance in trying to outperform outdo anyone and everyone(Which are traits I am trying to overcome),but when you got those genuinely good Christians come breaking down on you crying about how people are treating them and all that. Its sad man. While I wish to be like them.. I also wish I am not like them.
Your post should be printed out and distributed within your church and perhaps to those guys u mentioned. Maybe to ALL Christians.
Maybe its not demanding to you, but it is definately very demanding to me.Trust me. When you got psychotic anti-christians, anti-religious people and even fellow Christians all around you, they will be hounding your ass, every single move you make, every single decision you take, and they will come and challenge the very way a supposedly Christian should live by. So yes, it is demanding.
Thats why it's true how they say, it's easier to live life without religion. You answer to no one. But to yourself.
If you really do what u preach lilke in this post, I really give u the stamp of approval. But dont get angry, I am just going to use the 40K ring example, and how its hard to reconcile with your above post. Because that is also fundamental in how you precieve things and the way Christians should lead their life. Hope you understand what I mean.
Hmm....having the heart to serve doesn't means I will allow myself to endure unreasonable demands, suffer in silence if I'm being molested, raped or taken advantage of. Because that would be slavery if I had to serve while enduring all harsh sufferings in silence. I serve the people around me, but I also serve wisely. I won't serve people who are out to take advantage of me like inviting me alone to their place at night, meet them and their group of male friends alone, go out alone with them on a mock-up "date", or even borrow money to them...and etc. Thank GOD for giving me brains and instincts and often warning me against people who would do harm to me...really....
It's just about whether christians having the heart to serve or not, and knows who they should be serving if they do possesses the heart to serve. GOD will not be pleased to see HIS beloved christians to be ENSLAVED or RAPED by people with such evil intentions. Christians should be blessed not to serve blindly by faith alone.
Love one another also doesn't means I'm going to allow myself to have multiple sex partners to convince them that I do love and care for them.
Regarding spreading the gospel, I can say you need to have the right audience and the right opportunity and you must be ready to spread the gospel before you can start spreading the gospel. Just plain making bookmarks on the bible and memorising alot of verses on the bible isn't good enough to express your faith and conviction to influence people that Christianity is the religion that will save them and their families. (I use the word "INFLUENCE" instead of "convince" because we need to attract and draw the audience by making ourselves into the best real-life living example of what we believe in)
For myself, I'll be very happy if I can have many children, influence them to take up Christianity as their religion and watch them grow up and do the same for their children. That to me is already spreading the gospel in the most natural way that will bring joy to my GOD. I'm still young but I believed GOD will provide the right person for me or my parents would anyway.
Don't allow your life to be demanding on you, learn to ignore people who are out to find trouble with you and distance yourself from them if you know you cannot save yourself if you do not save yourself from them right now. Love them if you are able to understand them, tell yourself you are not ready to love them now if you are not able to understand them.
Stay focus on your faith and conviction when you are challenged/provoked by others. People do that because they are lost and they are searching for answers to the meaning of their lives. Make PEACE with your heart and mind first then make peace with your ears and eyes so that you do not get affect by their tauntings. THEN YOU RUN AWAY FROM SUCH PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ARE TROUBLEMAKERS FOR YOUR SOUL! YOU RUN TO SAVE AND WIN YOUR OWN SOUL, YOU RUN AWAY FROM THEM TO SAVE THEIR SOULS FROM FALLING DEEPER.
Your heart will often be feeling empty and lost if you do not have a religion, you do not have a purpose in your life if you do not have a religion. You are nothing more than an empty shell, a walking dead if you do not fill up that space in your heart and ignite your soul with a religion. Where will you go when you're dead? Who can you seek counsel from when you're alone? Who can help and hear you out when all your friends and loved ones have left and abandoned you? Who will guide your heart and grow your soul? Humans don't lived long enough to mature their wisdom to advise you against unforseen things in your life.
I'm not offended about the mentioned of the 30k ring post. In fact, everyone...christians and non-christians alike, have dreams and expectations in their lives, regardless of whether they are rich or poor, capable or incapable, noble or cheap. True love or not true love, we all want to be loved and desire love from people. I too require love from my future partner as much as I don't mind to be hated in sgforums.
If 30k ring is the minimum requirement for my proposal ring, then I'm fine with it as long as it does not betray the love, faith, conviction that I have for my GOD, my LORD and my SAVIOUR.
Hmm....I do not understand why the 30k ring post is difficult to reconcile with my previous post. If you don't mind, please elaborate further.
If only christians can leave the non christian alone, dont distrub them, dont preach them, dont call them every now and then, dont knock the door...then I should say that christian is a good christian.
Originally posted by kilfer:Hi BadzMaro,
Thanks for giving us an insight into Christian life.
The problem is just that there are too many fake christians and too few faithful ones, and this is a problem that permeates the entire Christian community at all levels. A lot of people, including myself, have bad experiences with people who likes to invoke the name of God and Christianity, and hence Christian forums tend to be the targets for flame wars.
I read thru your post, and I like how you explain the difficulties faced by a good Christian. Fake christians simply joined a church for dubious purposes, and should not be considered as Christians. Therefore you do not have to bother with defending the actions of those black sheeps, 'cos it's really not your fault. Otherwise it will just burn you out and distract you from seeking God.
Hey Kilfer man,
Sometimes the good and bad , faithful and non-faithful ones, the convulsion, its hard to seperate them out. Unless you truly understands them individually, but that will consume time and energy.
And its not really about defending their actions sometimes, it would definately be easier if one just doesnt care and ignore, but unfortunately, not caring is not one of the principals of Christianity. So there you go, you have a contradiction within yourself.
But as u know it, there are those out there who are out just to take advantage. Its hard to tell a faithful and caring Christian not to be caring.
And at most times, what is a good and a bad Christian differs from where you stand. Examples:- likeyou thinks a good Christian leaves them alone, but to his fellow Christians, what he is doing is what a good christian should do.
Originally posted by parn:
Hmm....having the heart to serve doesn't means I will allow myself to endure unreasonable demands, suffer in silence if I'm being molested, raped or taken advantage of. Because that would be slavery if I had to serve while enduring all harsh sufferings in silence. I serve the people around me, but I also serve wisely. I won't serve people who are out to take advantage of me like inviting me alone to their place at night, meet them and their group of male friends alone, go out alone with them on a mock-up "date", or even borrow money to them...and etc. Thank GOD for giving me brains and instincts and often warning me against people who would do harm to me...really....It's just about whether christians having the heart to serve or not, and knows who they should be serving if they do possesses the heart to serve. GOD will not be pleased to see HIS beloved christians to be ENSLAVED or RAPED by people with such evil intentions. Christians should be blessed not to serve blindly by faith alone.
Love one another also doesn't means I'm going to allow myself to have multiple sex partners to convince them that I do love and care for them.
Regarding spreading the gospel, I can say you need to have the right audience and the right opportunity and you must be ready to spread the gospel before you can start spreading the gospel. Just plain making bookmarks on the bible and memorising alot of verses on the bible isn't good enough to express your faith and conviction to influence people that Christianity is the religion that will save them and their families. (I use the word "INFLUENCE" instead of "convince" because we need to attract and draw the audience by making ourselves into the best real-life living example of what we believe in)
For myself, I'll be very happy if I can have many children, influence them to take up Christianity as their religion and watch them grow up and do the same for their children. That to me is already spreading the gospel in the most natural way that will bring joy to my GOD. I'm still young but I believed GOD will provide the right person for me or my parents would anyway.
Don't allow your life to be demanding on you, learn to ignore people who are out to find trouble with you and distance yourself from them if you know you cannot save yourself if you do not save yourself from them right now. Love them if you are able to understand them, tell yourself you are not ready to love them now if you are not able to understand them.
Stay focus on your faith and conviction when you are challenged/provoked by others. People do that because they are lost and they are searching for answers to the meaning of their lives. Make PEACE with your heart and mind first then make peace with your ears and eyes so that you do not get affect by their tauntings. THEN YOU RUN AWAY FROM SUCH PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ARE TROUBLEMAKERS FOR YOUR SOUL! YOU RUN TO SAVE AND WIN YOUR OWN SOUL, YOU RUN AWAY FROM THEM TO SAVE THEIR SOULS FROM FALLING DEEPER.
Your heart will often be feeling empty and lost if you do not have a religion, you do not have a purpose in your life if you do not have a religion. You are nothing more than an empty shell, a walking dead if you do not fill up that space in your heart and ignite your soul with a religion. Where will you go when you're dead? Who can you seek counsel from when you're alone? Who can help and hear you out when all your friends and loved ones have left and abandoned you? Who will guide your heart and grow your soul? Humans don't lived long enough to mature their wisdom to advise you against unforseen things in your life.
I'm not offended about the mentioned of the 30k ring post. In fact, everyone...christians and non-christians alike, have dreams and expectations in their lives, regardless of whether they are rich or poor, capable or incapable, noble or cheap. True love or not true love, we all want to be loved and desire love from people. I too require love from my future partner as much as I don't mind to be hated in sgforums.
If 30k ring is the minimum requirement for my proposal ring, then I'm fine with it as long as it does not betray the love, faith, conviction that I have for my GOD, my LORD and my SAVIOUR.
Hmm....I do not understand why the 30k ring post is difficult to reconcile with my previous post. If you don't mind, please elaborate further.
Fair enough, we are no Mother Teresa. But this is again, us as human beings setting limitations on ourselves. But that would be another issue altogether.
I personally prefer influence over the usual evengelism way. But then you are going to have problems again. U will notice that, the "influences" do have it's side effects to it. And most of the time now, alot of people equate their prosperity as influence. And that is one the most common ways being done as you can see. And it invites a sort of false sense, I would think warped way. What is leading and living by example ? Different people realy will view it differently.
Then equally, those that come in with "motives" can equally justify themselves that yes, this new found religion does give me prosperity. Its like a close friend of mine. Sole Distributor of Salem in South East Asia. We often discuss about it. We are both involved in businessess that many more pragmatic Christian would think as not good. Alchohol distributorship, Bar, Lounge thats why we have these conversations everytime we meet. Yes. Its BIG. His is rich ... as! But is what he is doing a good Christian ? We all know cigarettes kill. Is what he is doing right ? In the eyes of Jesus. Thats when we start to give ourselves justifications.
Thats where fundamental and liberal interpretations start to clash. Some may say it is a form akin to the prosperity theory and how God wants us to prosper and stuff, but the question is, is THAT the way a "good" Christian would lead. Like politics too. We may not be influencing them in the right path. To them, to be rich.. you be a Christian.
Given that we dont live long enough for that attainable wisdom, but u can always pray for wisdom ?If u believe in King Solomon.
The 30K ring is how we view the material need to be satisfied. I personally do not really consider myself as a "good" Christian. I am unwilling to give up on my wealth and material wants. I mean the way I used to spend money, and how I used to think that the money is a blessing. But seriously, more like God blessed my parents and I am just free riding.
And its very easy to justify yourself on what u think how God wants u to live. I have always thought that God truly blesses those that gives him his all, and through that conviction is blessed in return. Not by first wanting to be blessed without giving up on anything.
Of course we have dreams and expectations. But are those dreams and expectations Christian in values ? Would Jesus have those dreams and expectations too ? WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?)
But like I said, we sometimes have diifferences in interpretations. And since u have very high belief in as long whatever u do does not betray the love, faith, conviction that I have for my GOD, my LORD and my SAVIOUR, then you will definately not see any problem with the expectations of 30k ring.
And u know how there are some Christians who in his view felt disgusted by the hypocrasy within the church and decided that attending sunday worship is irrelevant, as one can understand the scriptures from the Bible alone. Is that true ? Is that right ? Both have their own interpretations of what Sunday is.
Its like while I fully understand the importance of faith and love to God in your own time and without the need to attend Services, I still think its equally as important to attend Sunday Service regardless of whether or not one thinks he can do a Service by himself in his own room on Sunday.
We both on the outset of it seems similiar in terms of our convictions, but we differ in it's interpretations at most times.
But at least we share the same God. And I am not here to say u are wrong or yours is the truth, just the realisation that things can be different even within a Christian perspective, non-christian and anti-religion/christian people.
Originally posted by likeyou:If only christians can leave the non christian alone, dont distrub them, dont preach them, dont call them every now and then, dont knock the door...then I should say that christian is a good christian.
i think, at the basic level, dun be like casopia
he flamed other religion, then pretended he didnt do it, and accuse others of being misguided
and of course demand people respect his belief
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