Why Human CREATED Religions?
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No need to go into such infinite regression. lol There are so many possible arguments. From a moral pov, ontoligical pov, cosmological pov... etc. From all these arguments, we must be aware and be cautioned in extrapolating from common sense notions of causality to philosophical conclusions about the nature of all of reality. Man have always wondered about what is between God, the physical world, time and causality. We must be humble at our own limited intellect. I would not be so certain to make a universal negative assertion. I think you meant to suggests that any God complex enough to account for all of creation would necessarily be complex enough to require an explanation. My question is... does it really ? So while you may not believe there is one and with good reason, there are those that believe there is one. Also with good reasons.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
We can think all that is there....but putting it in writing here will not be nice....as a christian, u should forgive people whom are mean to you....Hahaha!
For the record, I have nothing personal against Jacky. I am very familiar with the rantings of the typical village atheist. I am simply pointing out to you that your earlier post about good strategy and open mind is more reflective of Jacky than me.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
For the record, I have nothing personal against Jacky. I am very familiar with the rantings of the typical village atheist. I am simply pointing out to you that your earlier post about good strategy and open mind is more reflective of Jacky than me.
Yeah yeah....constructive criticism?
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hey, i am back again...
well i tot abt this for some time and decided ok, i shall share why i say ''who created God'' is a flawed question...again i must emphasise wadever i share is the way i myself see it...so here goes...
1st, we need to set certain premises..1) do we agree tat God(if he exist) is infinite? 2) do we agree tat all matter are finite and limited by space and time? in other words, nothing whether living or non-living is infinite. once these premises are set, i can start sharing...
so now we noe tat matter is finite and limited but God is infinite...i bring forth the concept we learn in maths where we have the number series and the infinity sign...the numbers each have a value and are limited to their own values...infinity as we are taught has no value cos its beyond value...also, we cun give infinity a value cos if we do, then it will cease being the largest in the numerical series...
Now God is infinite, matter is finite...so ''who created God?'' is tantamount to asking ''whats the value of infinity?'' has anyone found the value of infinity? perhaps when tat day comes, we will also noe who created God..:)
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Muse over this: If indeed god is the creator of the UNIVERSE – who created ’’god’’ and before that who was the one who created ’’god’’?
It seems more like man created god in his own image and hence the utter mess!
it is no wonder some religious zealots have taken the place of god and place their judgement on people -
Historians, scholars say that religions were created by men simply because we can trace all modern religions to their BEGINNINGS.
Take for example christianity. It started about 2000 years ago. Some scholars say Paul was the founder of christianity while some say its jesus.
Regardless of who, the point is that we can trace it back to its origins.
Christianity was NOT "always there" like what BIC claimed.... It is very naive to say that it has always been there when we all know that christianity and the idea of jesus being god is only 2000 years old...
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Originally posted by laurence82:
it is no wonder some religious zealots have taken the place of god and place their judgement on people
And there are also religious atheist-zealots which have revived God from their lives and placed their judgement on others as deluded or irrational for believing that God exists. -
Originally posted by Tcmc:
Historians, scholars say that religions were created by men simply because we can trace all modern religions to their BEGINNINGS.
Take for example christianity. It started about 2000 years ago. Some scholars say Paul was the founder of christianity while some say its jesus.
Regardless of who, the point is that we can trace it back to its origins.
Christianity was NOT "always there" like what BIC claimed.... It is very naive to say that it has always been there when we all know that christianity and the idea of jesus being god is only 2000 years old...
As usual Tcmc has to resort to distorting what I said. I said that Christ coming was foretold way back in Genesis 3, and in this sense Christianity went all the way back. Of course Christ came to earth 2000 years ago and His followers made up the church. Byte even tracing Christianity to Christ does not prove your point that it is a man-made religion because Jesus was not just man, He was God. -
*Jesus was not just man, He was God* - jesus was a man indeed but he being god has been utterly distorted and reduced into a doctrine, dogma and hence it is labeled as organised religion. His beckoning to ... was to imbibe thru him the existential. He was not preaching but rather he was an invitation to for those who themselves are attuned to Beingness! To simplify - he was essence of spirituality and being spiritual by via of his ...... Mohd did the same, Krhishna did the same, Buddha did the same. Sadly, after their passing on ... they have all become isms! When one goes to a church or temple or .. hoping to find "GOD"" one is merely alienating oneself, cos how can one that is existing and yet not existing be outside of oneself. Between bondage and freedom - being .... is the only possible way to recognise the godliness within oneself that has always been there and always will be there. The question that may avail one to ''answers'' lies in this state of being: m I being in bondange (is being a christian or Buddshist or Hindu or ...) or m I being freedom (being Jesus, Being Krishna, Being Buddha. Muse over this : Most religious leaders like to herd and it presuppposes that another is sheep. Can one herd a lion?
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Jesus was not just man, He was God – jesus was a man indeed but he being god has been utterly distorted and reduced into a doctrine, dogma and hence it is labeled as organised religion. His beckoning to … was to imbibe thru him the existential. He was not preaching but rather he was an invitation to for those who themselves are attuned to Beingness! To simplify – he was essence of spirituality and being spiritual by via of his …...
Mohd did the same, Krhishna did the same, Buddha did the same. Sadly, after their passing on … they have all become isms!
When one goes to a church or temple or .. hoping to find “GOD”” one is merely alienating oneself, cos how can one that is existing and yet not existing be outside of oneself.
Between bondage and freedom – being …. is the only possible way to recognise the godliness within oneself that has always been there and always will be there.
The question that may avail one to ’’answers’’ lies in this state of being: m I being in bondange (is being a christian or Buddshist or Hindu or …
or m I being freedom (being Jesus, Being Krishna, Being Buddha.Muse over this :
Most religious leaders like to herd and it presuppposes that another is sheep. Can one herd a lion?Whatever, bible is not applicable to all, only to certain chosen ones. Favouritism is damn damn rampant. tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk ! WAS!!!
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Jesus was not just man, He was God – jesus was a man indeed but he being god has been utterly distorted and reduced into a doctrine, dogma and hence it is labeled as organised religion. His beckoning to … was to imbibe thru him the existential. He was not preaching but rather he was an invitation to for those who themselves are attuned to Beingness! To simplify – he was essence of spirituality and being spiritual by via of his …...
Mohd did the same, Krhishna did the same, Buddha did the same. Sadly, after their passing on … they have all become isms!
When one goes to a church or temple or .. hoping to find “GOD�� one is merely alienating oneself, cos how can one that is existing and yet not existing be outside of oneself.
Between bondage and freedom – being …. is the only possible way to recognise the godliness within oneself that has always been there and always will be there.
The question that may avail one to ’’answers’’ lies in this state of being: m I being in bondange (is being a christian or Buddshist or Hindu or … or m I
being freedom (being Jesus, Being Krishna, Being Buddha.Muse over this :
Most religious leaders like to herd and it presuppposes that another is sheep. Can one herd a lion?
Again I am not here to defend others but just the Christian faith. On what basis do you say that the deity of Jesus is a distortion due to organised religion? Where's your supporting facts and evidence? -
Organized religion is the highest plight (as well as a flight) of human consciousnes and an individual search for existential expereince. Inner ''truth'' cant rest on the commonality of knowldege. However, one going inwards and sequentially when the sense of self is no longer a participant but a witness, a watcher to what is truth descends as it is! Truth spoken is truth negated. Behind the facade of roles/prjections truth abides to indivisibility. The questions/answers transcended truth simply IS. Organized religion is collectively organzied and altogether a different affair. Authentic religion is always an individual expereince and in that ''indivisibility'' of individuality it transforms one''s experience to that of being authenthic. Truth when ''organized'' dies. It is reduced to a dogma, a belief system, a theology, a philosophy, though the truth is may be expereinced it is not longer authenthic but an adulterated expereince. How can a crowd expereince truth! It happens only to individuals. It is akin and can be likened to love. One cant have ''organizations'' of love and where it is organized one need not bother; the organization will take care, the ''priest'' will love on one's behalf. That is what seems to be happening in religion (especially organised ones). When one discovers the truth, immediately one of the most cunning parts of humanity manifests itself lah, the priests encroach. They start accumulating words; they interpreting words. What is divisive is that they start making it clear that if one want to know truth, one has to go thru them and assume a role of being a mediator, a medium to Truth, God (any label does not matter). The reality is, self-appointed they circumsribe, they dictate.It is exploitation behind the facade behind the cloak of religiosity. In fact it is politicised. When it is organised - one has to abide by and live by the four corners of the ''document''. This is the fallacy and undoing of organised religion. In fact it is politics but so very subtle.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Organized religion is the highest plight (as well as a flight) of human consciousnes and an individual search for existential expereince. Inner ’’truth’’ cant rest on the commonality of knowldege. However, one going inwards and sequentially when the sense of self is no longer a participant but a witness, a watcher to what is truth descends as it is! Truth spoken is truth negated. Behind the facade of roles/prjections truth abides to indivisibility. The questions/answers transcended truth simply IS.
Organized religion is collectively organzied and altogether a different affair. Authentic religion is always an individual expereince and in that ’’indivisibility’’ of individuality it transforms one’’s experience to that of being authenthic. Truth when ’’organized’’ dies. It is reduced to a dogma, a belief system, a theology, a philosophy, though the truth is may be expereinced it is not longer authenthic but an adulterated expereince. How can a crowd expereince truth!
It happens only to individuals. It is akin and can be likened to love. One cant have ’’organizations’’ of love and where it is organized one need not bother; the organization will take care, the ’’priest’’ will love on one’s behalf. That is what seems to be happening in religion (especially organised ones). When one discovers the truth, immediately one of the most cunning parts of humanity manifests itself lah, the priests encroach. They start accumulating words; they interpreting words. What is divisive is that they start making it clear that if one want to know truth, one has to go thru them and assume a role of being a mediator, a medium to Truth, God (any label does not matter). The reality is, self-appointed they circumsribe, they dictate.It is exploitation behind the facade behind the cloak of religiosity. In fact it is politicised. When it is organised – one has to abide by and live by the four corners of the ’’document’’. This is the fallacy and undoing of organised religion. In fact it is politics but so very subtle.
You wax lyrical about truth yet also said that truth is relative. You are confused. And I wonder if most here even know what you are talking here most of the time. Keep utter simply and clear please. -
When one is attuned to waking up one leaf falling from the tree is enough. However, when one is sleepwalking (sheep)) the whole tree can fall - one would not even notice it.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
When one is attuned to waking up one leaf falling from the tree is enough. However, when one is sleepwalking (sheep)) the whole tree can fall – one would not even notice it.
When one has a problem communicating simply and clearly he should not find fault with his listeners. -
In the movie "Cast Away", Tom Hanks created his friend "Wilson" from a volleyball....why ? Becos he was lonely and needed someone to talk to ? Was it the same reason why human created religions ?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
In the movie "Cast Away", Tom Hanks created his friend "Wilson" from a volleyball....why ? Becos he was lonely and needed someone to talk to ? Was it the same reason why human created religions ?
In that movie, Tom Hanks was separated from his family and friends, cut off from civilisation. As a social being man needs companionship. But loneliness alone does not explain why man would want to create religions. Anyway, the Bible teaches that it is God who created humans, not the other way round. Of course man can invent deities and gods to believe in, but this only shows that man is incorrigibly religious because that's how God made man to be, in fellowship with Him. But sin has cut off that fellowship with God. But man still yearns for the divine and many has invented religions to meet this spiritual void.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
In that movie, Tom Hanks was separated from his family and friends, cut off from civilisation. As a social being man needs companionship. But loneliness alone does not explain why man would want to create religions. Anyway, the Bible teaches that it is God who created humans, not the other way round. Of course man can invent deities and gods to believe in, but this only shows that man is incorrigibly religious because that's how God made man to be, in fellowship with Him. But sin has cut off that fellowship with God. But man still yearns for the divine and many has invented religions to meet this spiritual void.
Interesting perspective, I'll research more into this....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Interesting perspective, I'll research more into this....
come on please, dun be naive to believe the nonsense that extremist sprouted. of course it would be expected coming from the mouth of a xtian. but he doesnt take into account of other views such as how sure is he there is a god and so many gods out there, why does xtian insists their religion is true and others are false. other religions can also say the same thing and claim their religion is true and all other false.
use your thinking cap to analyse all these put forward. and dun believe in anything blindly and accept everything that is thrown at you without giving some thought to it.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
come on please, dun be naive to believe the nonsense that extremist sprouted. of course it would be expected coming from the mouth of a xtian. but he doesnt take into account of other views such as how sure is he there is a god and so many gods out there, why does xtian insists their religion is true and others are false. other religions can also say the same thing and claim their religion is true and all other false.
use your thinking cap to analyse all these put forward. and dun believe in anything blindly and accept everything that is thrown at you without giving some thought to it.
Jacky the atheist trying to fault Christians for saying that only Christianity is true while he insists that ALL religious are false and only atheism is true? This is most bizarre and twisted logic! And he is telling others not to believe me blindly but expects them to believe him blindly! A classic case of special pleading! -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Jacky the atheist trying to fault Christians for saying that only Christianity is true while he insists that ALL religious are false and only atheism is true? This is most bizarre and twisted logic! And he is telling others not to believe me blindly but expects them to believe him blindly! A classic case of special pleading!
We are discussing mah....agree doesn't mean believe....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
We are discussing mah....agree doesn't mean believe....
Just pointing out the double standards that Jacky is holding to. If I am labelled extremist for believing only Christianity is true, then why should atheists like Jacky not be labelled even worst than extremist for believing only atheism is true and ALL religions are false? -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Just pointing out the double standards that Jacky is holding to. If I am labelled extremist for believing only Christianity is true, then why should atheists like Jacky not be labelled even worst than extremist for believing only atheism is true and ALL religions are false?Why is Jacky so upset ?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Why is Jacky so upset ?
I think atheists are always upset with Christians and Christianity, and with God!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I think atheists are always upset with Christians and Christianity, and with God!
What were Einstein's and Newton's religion ?