dont waste each other's time.
there is no point trying to convince each other with words.
happyinfo2
yes, u have understood the family concept...although there is more to it, ur answer is gd enuff for wad we are discussing...so far, onli christians understand the family concept and how its related to christianity...i have yet to meet a non-christian who can relate family and christianity tgr...
ok lah, fairyfairy...help u out a bit more...i am sure u have heard christians pray b4? now, wad do we call our God when we pray? we call Him sth no other religion would call their deity/god...we call Him heavenly Father...does the word ''Father'' ring a bell concerning the family concept?
Originally posted by Happyinfo2:sorry that i interupt...
i see similarity which you may not...what you want is to conclude that God has no control.....?
and you are right... happier now?
God has no control as He gave us free will.....we choose to live the life we want.....you can choose not to believe in God or you can choose to believe in God....
God is loving but does not means that misfortune will not fall on His followers.....
for example, one choose to dash across a busy road instead of using the predestrian crossing....then kena knock down by a speeding car.....misfortune?
yes, then God has no control in that sense.
but it does not change the fact that God is love and here to save - not to condem.
follow the Lord and follow the way to eternal life....sins will be forgiven if there is repentence......
again i find it contradictory that "if buddha had the power to forgive and let everybody lives without misfortune, he would have done so but buddha admitted he had no control over karma"
then "he could only tell you how karma works and how to repent in order to lighten your bad karma and how to live a life of no misfortune"
if i understand correctly from what you said in the first part, there is no such thing as lives without misfortune.....then second part said that lighten bad karma can help us to live a live of no misfortune?
so got live without misfortune or not?
i am not disputing or disagreeing with any faith here...just trying to understand what fairy is writting....
one question, parents love their child and they teach them to be careful and avoid getting hurt or getting into trouble.....but children still get hurt and get into trouble.... does that means (to you) that these parents does not really love their children? or that the love is not real because parents have no control?
i understand that one can live a life of misfortune if follow the teachings strictly. i've seen a few, though now rich but live a peaceful life. how can you compare human parents with god? god is supposed to be powerful because we are all his creations. he can do wonders.when a christian pass away, people will say god calls him home. so it is god's will ? sometimes at his will, sometimes at our own will. very confusing. anyway i'm just trying to understand how things happen and trying to figure out who is behind all these. anyway i'll never get an answer, afterall i'm just a normal human being with no supernatural power.
i shall close my case here because we are all not sure how things happen.
correction : though not rich but live a peaceful life
u noe why christians comapre human parents with God? because we are created in God's likeness...at least, thats wad we believe...however, this doesnt mean we are perfect like God...this juz mean we have certain attributes like Him...juz like when babies are born, they inherit certain genes from their parents...now do u see the family concept clearer?
Originally posted by despondent:u noe why christians comapre human parents with God? because we are created in God's likeness...at least, thats wad we believe...however, this doesnt mean we are perfect like God...this juz mean we have certain attributes like Him...juz like when babies are born, they inherit certain genes from their parents...now do u see the family concept clearer?
If that's the case, can't blame people for being vengeful, jealous, capricious, etc,traits which the Bible clearly outlines god as possessing
Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:i understand that one can live a life of misfortune if follow the teachings strictly. i've seen a few, though now rich but live a peaceful life. how can you compare human parents with god? god is supposed to be powerful because we are all his creations. he can do wonders.when a christian pass away, people will say god calls him home. so it is god's will ? sometimes at his will, sometimes at our own will. very confusing. anyway i'm just trying to understand how things happen and trying to figure out who is behind all these. anyway i'll never get an answer, afterall i'm just a normal human being with no supernatural power.
i shall close my case here because we are all not sure how things happen.
actually, i do not understand what you mean by "i understand that one can live a life of misfortune if follow the teachings strictly" ??
and i do agree that many people who are not rich but live a peaceful life....I see that in many people in the church. i consider myself one of them.
the love that God has for us is the same as the love that parenets has for their children. why can't we make that comparison? didn't you use parents hiding sweets from kids too?
God is not supposed to be powerful - He is and He does everything at his will. not sometimes at His will and sometimes at human's will. He gave us free will to choose and discern.... we are not robot and surely you don't want to live like one right?
do you want your parents to control everything you do? what to eat, what to wear, where tp go, when to go, what to say etc....etc...etc....?
yes, when a christian pass away, people will say god calls him home - it is god's will.
i know you are trying to understand things....which is very good.
i also feel that you are leaning more to buddhism which is also very good.
i also feel that you are trying to justify leaning toward buddhism by doubting christianity....which i think is not very good and not necessary....
suggest you try to understand buddhism instead and if that convince you, well go for it.
if you doubt christianity and go to buddhism, then i think you go for a wrong reason. the reason for going to any faith is not because you doubt another.....but rather you believe in what the faith has to offer you.....and you understand the teachings of the faith.
yes, you will never get any complete answer from a forum as far as christianity is concerned. you need to spend time to learn and understand about the faith.....only then you can clear or confirm your doubts.....you need time and effort.
the same kind of time and effort is also needed for other faith.....
and if your mind is already closed and heart decided, then nothing will change that....not because you are normal human being with no supernatural power, but because your heart is not willing....
continue to search with an open heart and you will find your answer....God bless you.
to dadeadman
ah...u are advocating the idea tat God is both good and bad...and this is contrary to the christian teachings abt God...i mentioned clearly tat i was referring to the christian perspective so God would then be defined as perfectly good...so can we still say tat we inherited jealousy, vengeance, capriciousness from Him?
again, its a matter of definitions which u and i have toked abt in the past...we are looking at God from different perspectives...so its will be an apple-orange argument if we continue...
Originally posted by despondent:to dadeadman
ah...u are advocating the idea tat God is both good and bad...and this is contrary to the christian teachings abt God...i mentioned clearly tat i was referring to the christian perspective so God would then be defined as perfectly good...so can we still say tat we inherited jealousy, vengeance, capriciousness from Him?
again, its a matter of definitions which u and i have toked abt in the past...we are looking at God from different perspectives...so its will be an apple-orange argument if we continue...
The definitions will vary, with the arguments built upon the definitions, thus providing the basis for the apple-orange logic. However to look at it from another perspective, the definitions have to be supported by evidence I believe, however the bible does suggest contrary to the Christian definition. In certain instances words like "vengeance" & "jealousy" are explicitly stated, how would a church raise a defence to that argument?
by checking the context and original meaning of the word ''jealousy'' according to the hebrew/greek text? just like the word ''love'' in the bible...it has 3 different meanings in greek...but in the english bible,its juz ''love''
Originally posted by despondent:by checking the context and original meaning of the word ''jealousy'' according to the hebrew/greek text? just like the word ''love'' in the bible...it has 3 different meanings in greek...but in the english bible,its juz ''love''
The word for it in Hebrew is qin'ah, in Greek "zelos", meaning heat, anger, envy and of course jealousy. The idea behind it is there, even across languages.
Originally posted by despondent:u noe why christians comapre human parents with God? because we are created in God's likeness...at least, thats wad we believe...however, this doesnt mean we are perfect like God...this juz mean we have certain attributes like Him...juz like when babies are born, they inherit certain genes from their parents...now do u see the family concept clearer?
no, no, it is still wrong to compare us with god because he is supposedly to be more powerful than us. no point debating. conclusion is christians see the logic (i don't understand how the logic comes about) that is why you are chritians, we don't see the logic, that is why we are non-christians.
Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:no, no, it is still wrong to compare us with god because he is supposedly to be more powerful than us. no point debating. conclusion is christians see the logic (i don't understand how the logic comes about) that is why you are chritians, we don't see the logic, that is why we are non-christians.
right, no point discussing (i don't think we are debating), you will not see logic if you don't want to even when it is obvious.....
we cannot compare ourselves to God - no...no..no.... and that's not what we are trying to do (at least not me). just want you to see the logic and concept that God loved us like a parent loving their kids......
you won't understand it until you put your heart and mind into understanding it..... like a maths problem....you will not understand how to solve them....you won't see the logic until you understand the concept behind it....
i have pointed the contradictions in your post but....
well i can safely say i am not comparing humans wif God either...fairyfairy, its abt using parallels to explain things...for u, u dun see things in parallels...i feel tat u tend to look at things at face value...A is A, B is B...but wad i have been sharing is A is A, B is B, they are related because they have a common trait...both are letters in the alphabet...hence, its relevant to link A wif B although they are different individually...hope u get wad i saying...
to dadeadman
i dun tink tats the onli possible greek word for jealousy...although i must admit i am not trained and didnt search the greek words for jealousy...wad i can be certain is tat i have heard trained bible teachers mention tat the word jealousy has a few possible greek meanings...in other words, zelos(like u said) would not be the onli one...
to fairyfairy and happyinfo
personally, i feel tat the reason why christians use parallels and link things the way we do is cos of the belief in a single creator which many non-christians(excluding muslims and jews) dun...the belief in a single creator would imply that the things on earth are a result of creation from the same creator and hence they are related in some sense since they originate from the same creator. however, if creation wasnt true, then things either happened by chance or self-exist...hence, they are independent of each other and cannot be linked to each other since they may not share the same origin.
so fairyfairy, its understandable why many a times u dun understand christianity and the way we explain/link things...cos ur starting pt is non-creationistic...things on earth dun come from a common source, they dun share the same origin and hence to u, humans are humans, gods are gods...however, if humans are created by God, then the nature of creation would mean humans will possess some(NOT ALL) qualities/attributes of the common creator...i hope this helps...