Mother Teresa Doubted The Existence Of God
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Originally posted by 24/7:
isn't this a false dichotomy? you're assuming that just because a person might be suffering as a mortal, he should be sent to heaven when he will "prosper". You might be ignoring the possibility that his suffering will end soon, the redemption that comes with the alleviation of that suffering might be greater than that suffering itself, or ignoring the possibility that suffering has value in itself as well.
i wonder what kind of value can suffering have ? there was once a husband lost a wife, his wife died of sickness (it was in the newspaper long ago) someone told him god wanted him to learn from her death. he said he learned nothing from her death, what could be learned from death. he had few young kids at that time. what he said was valid.this was also in the newspaper long ago, there was an accident, the whole family died except the daughter ( christian family). the girl was only about 11 years old, her family friends told her she should be happy because her whole family went to heaven together. this is self deceiving. why left her behind then ? to grief for her family or so that there is someone to thank god for bringing the whole family to heaven ?
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exactly...cos heaven is paradise to christians and its seen as a much betta place than earth...u alredi said tat earth is full of suffering so isnt heaven a gd place to go to to escape suffering on earth??? look at ur posts, all focusing on the negative...the result of focusing on sufferings and not on blessings...
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to 24/7
their definition of faith has 2 extreme stands...1) its sth tat is based entirely on belief and has no scientific evidence/basis, no logic/reasoning....in other words, this stand believes tat faith in itself is always blind...2) its sth tat one shld onli exercise when there is substantial evidence, which is a contradiction cos as christians, we would say why would u need faith when u alredi noe the answer?
to conclude, to us crossing the road requires faith...to them, crossing teh road is a natural thing, so it doesnt require faith...
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to fairyfairy,
the moment u shared tat eternal life in heaven is scary to u even if its paradise, i alredi knew u will nvr understand the christian beliefs abt blessings....cos u are too focus on earth tat anything in the spirtiual realm which is unknown to u appears scary...plus u focus on the negative so wadever is paradise(positive) is unfamiliar territory to ur beliefs, leading to u feeling its scary...
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Originally posted by despondent:
to 24/7
their definition of faith has 2 extreme stands...1) its sth tat is based entirely on belief and has no scientific evidence/basis, no logic/reasoning....in other words, this stand believes tat faith in itself is always blind...2) its sth tat one shld onli exercise when there is substantial evidence, which is a contradiction cos as christians, we would say why would u need faith when u alredi noe the answer?
to conclude, to us crossing the road requires faith...to them, crossing teh road is a natural thing, so it doesnt require faith...
when crossing the road, you need to be alert, look out for cars (look out for logic), crossing the road based on faith (blindly) is just like taking chances, it will get you into accidents.
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see? i knew it...the definition of faith differs for both sides...how abt the scenario when all cars have stopped at the traffic light and the green man is up...we will cross the road rite? ever tot tat wad if one of the drivers suddenly moved his vehicle and hit u? believing tat u wun get knock down while crossing the road in this situation; to christians tat requires faith...cos u nvr noe whether one of the driver may lose control of his vehicle or the brakes came loose and cause the vehicle to move forward and hit u even though the light is red and green man is up...forget it lah...our definitions of faith is different to begin wif...
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anyway, just for some humour...fairyfairy, u replied my post EXACTLY 24hrs after i posted it...haha
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
Yes, but why help the unfortunate if one believes in Christian teaching, shooting them dead would be doing them a bigger favour, given that you are sending them off to heaven to rejoice.
how would shooting anyone be doing them a favour? although heaven is a place to rejoice but who are we to decide to send anyone there?
besides, what you said has nothing to do with Christians teachings....
a point you should note is that killing another person for whatever reason is still a sin and unacceptable....even mercy killing...in fact, there is no such thing as mercy killing.
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
when crossing the road, you need to be alert, look out for cars (look out for logic), crossing the road based on faith (blindly) is just like taking chances, it will get you into accidents.
can you help explain a little about your idea of blind faith?
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I tink i noe wad she means by blind faith...it means believing in sth that has no logical or scientific basis...but thats wad i tink she meant...wait for her to reply u ba...
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Originally posted by despondent:
I tink i noe wad she means by blind faith...it means believing in sth that has no logical or scientific basis...but thats wad i tink she meant...wait for her to reply u ba...
you are quite close but i have more to add. i am referring to believing in someone (god) whom you cannot comprehend, has no ability to comprehend and has no right to question. you can only say he is planning or doing something which is good for you even though it is obviously that it is not to your advantage when bad things happen. you can only trust him that he is doing in your best interest. this is what i called blind faith (pardon me) but to christians, this is called faith.
pardon me if i mention buddhism. karma is true or not is not the subject here but at least there is an explanation. it even goes into details, true or not is up to individual to believe (we shall not discuss whether it is true or not). for instance a man is rich but lives a short life. if you said god bless him, but why only wealth and not health ?
i read it somewhere and it sounds logical. if you ask me whether do i believe, i have yet an answer. it said based on law of karma, he was generous in doing charity in his past or present life but had done too many killings in his past or present life. doing charity does not cancel his killing bad deeds. every act is accounted for separately. at least there is an explanation.
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fair enuff...then may i ask if u ever wondered that the bible does have answers for such stuffs as well? its juz tat the answers are satisfactory to christians but unsatisfatory to non-christians like u...have u read enuff of the bible to conclude tat the bible does not have explanations for such issues?
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
you are quite close but i have more to add. i am referring to believing in someone (god) whom you cannot comprehend, has no ability to comprehend and has no right to question. you can only say he is planning or doing something which is good for you even though it is obviously that it is not to your advantage when bad things happen. you can only trust him that he is doing in your best interest. this is what i called blind faith (pardon me) but to christians, this is called faith.
pardon me if i mention buddhism. karma is true or not is not the subject here but at least there is an explanation. it even goes into details, true or not is up to individual to believe (we shall not discuss whether it is true or not). for instance a man is rich but lives a short life. if you said god bless him, but why only wealth and not health ?
i read it somewhere and it sounds logical. if you ask me whether do i believe, i have yet an answer. it said based on law of karma, he was generous in doing charity in his past or present life but had done too many killings in his past or present life. doing charity does not cancel his killing bad deeds. every act is accounted for separately. at least there is an explanation.
ok, i see your point....
it boils down to understanding....what do you understand about the christian faith (in this context, i mean christianity as a religion) ?
at the end of the day, the teaching is about loving your neighbour and being good.
being a christian is about following Jesus and His teachings (of doing good and loving others). Jesus lead by example but not all christians can and will follow His way.....
and faith means believing in God and Jesus. by following His way, we are on our way to eternal life....
but then who can claimed that they are sinless? and what happen when there are sins? Jesus died on the cross so that our sins can be forgiven by God and we need to truely repent and mend our ways....the key is repent in your heart and truely change.
many misconceptions about illogical etc...are due to lack of understanding and misrepresentation by anti-christians. i must admit that it is not easy to understand everything in the Bible and it takes time and efforts....thus, being a christian is a journey and not a destination.
in christianity too, every act or deed is also accountable for on it's own.....no good deeds will cancel any bad ones too...as we believe that we are accountable to God and on our judgement day, everything we did (good or bad) is known to God...He knows everything including our thoughts....
but bad deeds can be forgiven if we truely repent and change (which is why we said God is loving) as compared to persecution of people who made mistake but apologised and promised never to do it again...
people of all faiths made mistake and all deserve a chance to change....and God is here to forgive because he loved and want all of us to have eternal life with Him.
believe or not is a separate issue but blind faith does not mean following blindly.
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Originally posted by Happyinfo2:
ok, i see your point....
it boils down to understanding....what do you understand about the christian faith (in this context, i mean christianity as a religion) ?
at the end of the day, the teaching is about loving your neighbour and being good.
being a christian is about following Jesus and His teachings (of doing good and loving others). Jesus lead by example but not all christians can and will follow His way.....
and faith means believing in God and Jesus. by following His way, we are on our way to eternal life....
but then who can claimed that they are sinless? and what happen when there are sins? Jesus died on the cross so that our sins can be forgiven by God and we need to truely repent and mend our ways....the key is repent in your heart and truely change.
many misconceptions about illogical etc...are due to lack of understanding and msrepresentation by anti-christians. i must admit that it is not easy to understand everything in the Bible and it takes time and efforts....thus, being a christian is a journey and not a destination.
in christianity too, every act or deed is also accountable for on it's own.....no good deeds will cancel any bad ones too...as we believe that we are accountable to God and on our judgement day, everything we did (good or bad) is known to God...He knows everything including our thoughts....
but bad deeds can be forgiven if we truely repent and change (which is why we said God is loving) as compared to persecution of people who made mistake but apologised and promised never to do it again...
people of all faiths made mistake and all deserve a chance to change....and God is here to forgive because he loved and want all of us to have eternal life with Him.
believe or not is a separate issue but blind faith does not mean following blindly.
Nice article. -
Originally posted by Happyinfo2:
ok, i see your point....
it boils down to understanding....what do you understand about the christian faith (in this context, i mean christianity as a religion) ?
at the end of the day, the teaching is about loving your neighbour and being good.
being a christian is about following Jesus and His teachings (of doing good and loving others). Jesus lead by example but not all christians can and will follow His way.....
and faith means believing in God and Jesus. by following His way, we are on our way to eternal life....
but then who can claimed that they are sinless? and what happen when there are sins? Jesus died on the cross so that our sins can be forgiven by God and we need to truely repent and mend our ways....the key is repent in your heart and truely change.
many misconceptions about illogical etc...are due to lack of understanding and msrepresentation by anti-christians. i must admit that it is not easy to understand everything in the Bible and it takes time and efforts....thus, being a christian is a journey and not a destination.
in christianity too, every act or deed is also accountable for on it's own.....no good deeds will cancel any bad ones too...as we believe that we are accountable to God and on our judgement day, everything we did (good or bad) is known to God...He knows everything including our thoughts....
but bad deeds can be forgiven if we truely repent and change (which is why we said God is loving) as compared to persecution of people who made mistake but apologised and promised never to do it again...
people of all faiths made mistake and all deserve a chance to change....and God is here to forgive because he loved and want all of us to have eternal life with Him.
believe or not is a separate issue but blind faith does not mean following blindly.
Nice sharing
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just to add on to wad happyinfo shared...we tok abt forgiveness for bad deeds...qn: if the teaching of God forgiving our sins is a fairytale or a myth, then why is iut that when we do sth wrong, we desire or beg for forgiveness? where did tat desire and willingness to forgive originate from? why desire to forgive and why are we willing to forgive if the teaching of forgiveness has no logic and basis? in the teaching of karma, the part abt forgiveness is absent(correct me if i am wrong)...u dun get forgiven for bad deeds, u have to pay for it...
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Originally posted by -StarDust-:
Nice sharing
thank-you
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Originally posted by despondent:
just to add on to wad happyinfo shared...we tok abt forgiveness for bad deeds...qn: if the teaching of God forgiving our sins is a fairytale or a myth, then why is iut that when we do sth wrong, we desire or beg for forgiveness? where did tat desire and willingness to forgive originate from? why desire to forgive and why are we willing to forgive if the teaching of forgiveness has no logic and basis? in the teaching of karma, the part abt forgiveness is absent(correct me if i am wrong)...u dun get forgiven for bad deeds, u have to pay for it...
yeah, you are wrong. from what i have read. repentance is the core teaching in buddhism. sins can be lightened by repenting sincerely (truly regret what you have done and never repeat again) but cannot be pardoned. it also needs the right condition for karma to work. for instance if the person is really good, his bad karma will not have the right condition to work. kind of complicated.
if everyone carries the thought that whatever one does, as long as repent sincerely, all the sins will be forgiven, most people will commit sins without a second thought. i have also seen people commit sin, repent and then commit the same sin again. i wonder in christianity, what does it mean by repent ? repent each time you commit a sin or promise not to commit again ?
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repent and promise not to commit...however, sadly because adam's sinful nature is in all of us, we will still have the tendency to commit the same sin again...one difference u must take note is that there is a diff btw deliberately commiting the same sin again after repenting from it the 1st time and commiting it again accidentally...of cuz we are not referring to sins like murder, drug trafficking etc...we are referring to the so-called lesser sins which happen everyday in our lives...
one thing i have not told u abt christianity...it has its teachings rooted in the family concept...so most issues like grace, good works, salvation and even the teachings on heaven and hell traces back to the concept of the family...take urself out of buddhism for a moment and tink along the line of the family...see if u can get wad i am driving at...but u have to cast aside wadever u noe or believe regarding these issues...approach them like someone who noes nth abt such issues...wish u all the best!!!
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btw, christianity goes one step beyond repentance...we believe that after repentance, God is gracious enuff to forgive...so there is pardon after repentance...i would say its one step further...tat act of being gracious enuff to forgive is the act of Grace...in case u havent noticed, the word grace is hidden in the word ''gracious''...
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oh yes, after re-reading ur post, u have merely stated that repentance is a core teaching of buddhism...however, repentance and forgiveness are different...repentance is an act done by the offender when he/she came to the realisation that wad he/she did is wrong...however, forgiveness is an act done by the one who was offended...so its a different party from the party who repented...i noe buddhism teaches repentance but wad abt forgiveness? i was saying that forgiveness of sins is not taught in buddhism...sins once committed have to be paid for even if u repent from them...
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
yeah, you are wrong. from what i have read. repentance is the core teaching in buddhism. sins can be lightened by repenting sincerely (truly regret what you have done and never repeat again) but cannot be pardoned. it also needs the right condition for karma to work. for instance if the person is really good, his bad karma will not have the right condition to work. kind of complicated.
if everyone carries the thought that whatever one does, as long as repent sincerely, all the sins will be forgiven, most people will commit sins without a second thought. i have also seen people commit sin, repent and then commit the same sin again. i wonder in christianity, what does it mean by repent ? repent each time you commit a sin or promise not to commit again ?
actually, repentance is also very much the teacing of Christianity.
and you are right about "truly regret what you have done and never repeat again"
but it is kind of contradictory when you wrote "if everyone carries the thought that whatever one does, as long as repent sincerely, all the sins will be forgiven, most people will commit sins without a second thought"
which actually means that such person never truly regret what they had done and will not hesitate to repeat them again, and thus his or her sins are never forgiven in the first place.
and the meaning of repent is what you have wrote "truly regret what you have done and never repeat again"
now that you mentioned, i guess the difference is simply that we believed that sins can be forgiven (when one truly regret what one had done and never repeat again) while yours believed that the "sins can be lightened ".
which is why christians always says that God is loving and He is prepared to forgive us our sins as long as we truly regret what we had done and never repeat again. not by saying but by our action and the way we live our life.
God is here to save and not to condem. hope this input helps.
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to happyinfo2
agreed. :)
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Originally posted by despondent:
oh yes, after re-reading ur post, u have merely stated that repentance is a core teaching of buddhism...however, repentance and forgiveness are different...repentance is an act done by the offender when he/she came to the realisation that wad he/she did is wrong...however, forgiveness is an act done by the one who was offended...so its a different party from the party who repented...i noe buddhism teaches repentance but wad abt forgiveness? i was saying that forgiveness of sins is not taught in buddhism...sins once committed have to be paid for even if u repent from them...
share a bit of what i know. karma is "no man operation", thus you can never find the word "punishment", "reward" and "forgiveness". there was a buddhist who told me if buddha had the power to forgive and let everybody lives without misfortune, he would have done so but buddha admitted he had no control over karma. he could only tell you how karma works and how to repent in order to lighten your bad karma and how to live a life of no misfortune.
sometimes i think could it be god is also in the same situation as buddha, no control over certain things, for he is a loving god, he will not let misfortune befall on his followers. i would have better opinion of god if someone tells me it is not god's will, god tries to help but it is beyond his control. that is just my guess.
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
share a bit of what i know. karma is "no man operation", thus you can never find the word "punishment", "reward" and "forgiveness". there was a buddhist who told me if buddha had the power to forgive and let everybody lives without misfortune, he would have done so but buddha admitted he had no control over karma. he could only tell you how karma works and how to repent in order to lighten your bad karma and how to live a life of no misfortune.
sometimes i think could it be god is also in the same situation as buddha, no control over certain things, for he is a loving god, he will not let misfortune befall on his followers. i would have better opinion of god if someone tells me it is not god's will, god tries to help but it is beyond his control. that is just my guess.
sorry that i interupt...
i see similarity which you may not...what you want is to conclude that God has no control.....?
and you are right... happier now?
God has no control as He gave us free will.....we choose to live the life we want.....you can choose not to believe in God or you can choose to believe in God....
God is loving but does not means that misfortune will not fall on His followers.....
for example, one choose to dash across a busy road instead of using the predestrian crossing....then kena knock down by a speeding car.....misfortune?
yes, then God has no control in that sense.
but it does not change the fact that God is love and here to save - not to condem.
follow the Lord and follow the way to eternal life....sins will be forgiven if there is repentence......
again i find it contradictory that "if buddha had the power to forgive and let everybody lives without misfortune, he would have done so but buddha admitted he had no control over karma"
then "he could only tell you how karma works and how to repent in order to lighten your bad karma and how to live a life of no misfortune"
if i understand correctly from what you said in the first part, there is no such thing as lives without misfortune.....then second part said that lighten bad karma can help us to live a live of no misfortune?
so got live without misfortune or not?
i am not disputing or disagreeing with any faith here...just trying to understand what fairy is writting....
one question, parents love their child and they teach them to be careful and avoid getting hurt or getting into trouble.....but children still get hurt and get into trouble.... does that means (to you) that these parents does not really love their children? or that the love is not real because parents have no control?