City Harvest Church under investigation by CAD and CoC
-
one will always remain innocent
till the law passes judgement
only present and ex chc members will
know how chc operate..
-
looks like a lot of dirt is going to come out of this, just like NKF. I wonder will the kong hee, Sun and the board all resigned and stepped down until the investigation is completed, just like the old NKF.
-
Originally posted by GOD is my dog:
let's all pray (LOL) so that pastor Kong Hee will be brought to justice along with his popstar-wannabe wife !
if PAP really do go after these 2 fellas, then it's an election ploy !!! i doubt the letters from church members requesting an investigation were at all real.
anyway, what i wouldn't give to see those 2 in prison garb !!!!
then the next target would be NCC, eh ? PAP should've struck at those 2 at one go so NCC got no chance to ''doctor'' their books !
the look on all those church members' faces when pastors of CHC and NCC were put away would be PRICELESS !!! what a rude wake-up call !
pray to what? your dog? -_-
-
Originally posted by laurence82:
the troubling fact is not that CHC is being investigated, but the reaction of the members
CAD and COC have every right to investigate an organisation for crime or abuses, whatever is within their jurisdiction, and the members are implying its a goverment conspiracy
somebody please call in ISD and have these people arrested
you think ISD so free? please don't waste our taxes unless you wanna contribute more. -
Originally posted by Rooney9:
looks like a lot of dirt is going to come out of this, just like NKF. I wonder will the kong hee, Sun and the board all resigned and stepped down until the investigation is completed, just like the old NKF.
If you all remember, kong hee announced proudly to the whole world that he stopped taking salary from city harvest immediately after NKF TT Durai was being investigated.How come the timing so coincidental?
-
Originally posted by smrt3099:
I hope the CAD can do a hands off
Hands off ???Once the authority opens a case to investigate ... (with sufficient evidences),
they will dig all the way to the bottom.
-
Originally posted by bored`:
If you all remember, kong hee announced proudly to the whole world that he stopped taking salary from city harvest immediately after NKF TT Durai was being investigated.How come the timing so coincidental?
oh I didnt realised it. good on you dude
in 2005 right during the NKF saga. -
if there are charges to be made by the state prosecutor in court, expect a lot of dirt to come out in public, just like the NKF saga.
-
Yeah.. maybe something like golden taps & 1st class SQ tickets (reknown as NKF class) ??
-
first class tickets definitely, if not business class. after TT Durai, even if they have golden tap or bowl, would have removed it already lar.
-
Well, it is indeed a shocking news...
Bigger the organizations... it seems to be more vulnerable for loopholes...
-
-
don't really have to bold your every text.. we can read w/o bold text too....
-
read your full of shit? I pass. Wonder if you are from CHC. if so, no eyes see.
-
Awaiting for sentence to those greedy ones in CHC especially the mastermind.
Is horsyface ho involved in this money thing?
-
14 yrs ago....i already find them fishy
14 yrs later.....i still find them fishy (even more, especially after the simi "superstar" concert years ago...)
What took them (CAD) so long... LOL!
-
Jun 1, 2010
Churchgoers surprised
CITY Harvest members were taken by surprise when news that the police were investigating alleged misuse of church funds broke yesterday afternoon.
Media reports of the breaking news quickly led to a flurry of online chatter, including updates on blogs and social networking site Facebook, as well as frequent Twitter updates.
Most of the messages expressed shock at the news of the probe and most said they would pray for the church and its leaders through this 'difficult period'.
Undergraduate Teo Chin Ghee, 21, who has attended the church for the last four years, said she 'never expected' such a probe would take place.
'I trust the leadership of the church. I think they're as transparent as they can be (regarding finances),' she said.
Dr David Lam, 53, a general practitioner who has attended the church for nine years, added that he had absolute confidence in the church's leadership.
He said the church's leaders had always taken good care of its money.
'We were one of the first churches to post all our financial information on our church website. The church is tightly audited and I am confident that nothing fishy will surface from the investigations,' he said.
Some churchgoers, like public relations practitioner Wayne Chan, 31, who has been with the church since 2004, just wanted to be kept in the loop. 'As somebody who has been making regular donations to the church, I just want to know what's going on.'
He added that he welcomed the probe because it meant the truth would come to light. 'If the probe shows that nothing's wrong, we would finally be able to say that we've passed the test. If something is amiss, it's a good opportunity for the church to come clean, move forward and rectify any discrepancies there may be.'
Another 20-year-old churchgoer who wanted to be known as Mr Leong said, however, that he was not surprised by the probe.
He said the church had been involved in other controversies in the past, but had always come out clean.
Being in one of the church's ministries, Mr Leong said he has seen how money collected during church services is handled and believes that every single cent is accounted for.
Mr Leong, who is awaiting national service, said he will not let the probe affect his church attendance.
'There is nothing to worry about. I believe and trust in the leadership of the church,' he said.
-
hey i thought the bigger the church the better the people there... you know what i mean... well i heard the bad news before 3 years ago at that time i was still working in NTU but then i just ignore.. but now the bad news is out!!!... the truth is out! i hope they dont make use/use-up all the money contributed by some of the NTU STUDENTS there....or the good pple there...what a sad news!
-
if the verdict for pastor and wife is guilty, then can we expect a spate of suicides from fanatic brainwashed CHC members ? LOL........LOL
i believe the PAP was just waiting for the chance to pounce and the 310 million Suntec bid was what PAP was waiting for !
the PAP has been lusting after the hundreds of millions of dollars owned by CHC for some time !
Durai fell for the trap set for him when he sued the SPH reporter, didn't he ? LOL
-
Originally posted by dcx:
14 yrs ago....i already find them fishy
14 yrs later.....i still find them fishy (even more, especially after the simi "superstar" concert years ago...)
What took them (CAD) so long... LOL!
care to explain what was going on insider, since u got the insider info on CHC 14 years ago?
-
First NKF, then Ren Ci, then Youth Challenge. And now City Harvest Church.
The reaction online to our Yahoo! Fit-to-Post story about 17 City Harvest members, including founder Pastor Kong Hee, being investigated for misuse of funds has been nothing short of staggering.
In less than a day, over 2,000 remarks flooded the comments section, many applauding the move to audit the church’s finances.
Some defended the church while proclaiming their faith in its leadership and a rare few were downright nasty and insensitive.
It is obvious the probe has touched a raw nerve, and rightly so, because religion is and always will be a touchy and delicate subject in the multi-racial, multi-faith context of Singapore.
So before I continue, let me first say this — let us not jump to conclusions: Pastor Kong Hee and his staff are innocent until proven otherwise.
But it’s clear something is amiss.
Reports of the largest mega-church in Singapore (over 32,000 members) having amassed millions of dollars in reserves started to raise eyebrows years ago.
From a small church which started in 1989, City Harvest now boasts a 14,000 sq foot office in Suntec and its own $47 million building in Jurong West. It has 45 affiliate churches in Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan and Australia with a total of 48,000 members. It employs 154 full-time staff and has 15 committees overseeing all its operations.
The Straits Times reports that it spent $40 million alone in the last financial year.
Despite the much publicised fact that Kong Hee, 46, hasn’t been paid a salary by the church since 2005, the Pastor and his pop-star wife Sun Ho continue to attract their fair share of detractors.
City Harvest member Wayne Chen, 31, told the same paper that the Pastor is ”humble, caring and family-oriented” and always emphasises “family values and loving God and people”. Yet others criticise his wife for her celebrity lifestyle, raunchy music videos and daring dress sense.
But what the startlingly similar scandals involving the NKF, Ren Ci and Youth Challenge have taught us is that excess often leads to temptation. By all accounts, the leaders of all three non-profit organisations started off humbly and upheld genuinely noble ideals, until money — more than they knew what to do with — quickly led them down the path of greed, materalism and corruption.
In July 2005, CEO of the National Kidney Foundation, T. T. Durai, was arrested for making false declarations on NKF’s accounts. Lurid details of first-class air travel, a fleet of luxury cars at his beck and call, a $600,000 annual salary and even a golden tap in his private office suite emerged. During a much publicised trial, it was revealed in court that NKF had amassed $262 million in reserves.
A year later in 2006, Youth Challenge, which sends students overseas to do humanitarian work, came under fire for poor management practices and was subsequently voted for closure. Its leader, Vincent Lam – a former police officer who set it up in 1985 to keep aimless youths off the streets — was found to have an extravagant annual pay package of nearly $250,000 - 56 % of the charity’s total income. He resigned a year later. In March this year, Youth Challenge folded.
In 2008, Reverend Ming Yi, the chairman of Ren Ci Hospital and Medicare Centre, was charged with forgery, conspiracy and misuse of funds. He allegedly approved million-dollar investments for Ren Ci, but the funds included loans for himself. Stories of BMW cars, lavish condos and excessive splurging were revealed in court with the monk defending his lifestyle as that of “a modern monk”. Just last week, his jail sentence was reduced from 10 months in jail to just six.
And now, City Harvest Church, which recently invested in a whopping S$310 million stake in Suntec City Convention Centre. In its 2009 audit, it was found to have S$103 million in reserves.
From March next year, CHC will be renting a convention hall from Suntec Convention Centre which will include a 12,000-seat main auditorium, 10 meeting rooms, a multi-purpose hall, theatre and concourse on the top floors.
Check out how it raised funds for the impending move.
Benjamin Tan, 26, who makes regular contributions to his own church, told Yahoo! Singapore, ”When it comes to religious organisations like City Harvest, the money they receive should be more than enough to cover the maintenance of the church. I see no need for a reserve fund, or the investment of excess.”
“The role of religion is the worship of God, not a tool or vehicle to make money,” he adds.
Another senior church leader agreed, saying the sums of money being reported made him uncomfortable.
“Money is meant to flow through the church. There is no need for it to amass so much money because the Bible teaches us that, at the end of the day, we must have faith that God will provide,” he said.
Others disagree.
A 22-year-old City Harvest churchgoer, who wished to remain anonymous, said, “Any organisation that wants to do anything on a large scale needs a large amount of finances, be it charity work or even day-to-day administration.”
“City Harvest Church needs such a large amount of funds partly because it runs one of the largest community service organisations in Singapore – City Harvest Community Service Association (CHCSA),” he explains.
The CHCSA sent teams to Banda Aceh after the 2004 tsunami as well as sent medical and relief teams to help in the Haiti earthquake in January this year.
Whatever the reasons behind the financial complications in these organisations, one thing is certain — it is often the needy and those who really depend on them for prayer, food, treatment and life’s basic necessities who suffer the most.
Ren Ci Hospital, for example, suffered a severe plunge in donations from S$9.3 million in 2007 to just S$1.1 million in 2008. A drop in NKF donations also saw the organisation dipping into its reserves to keep its commitments to Singaporeans suffering from kidney failure.
Perhaps even more damaging is that instead of celebrating the many success stories by these charity and religious bodies which so often go un-noticed, the general public begin to question and doubt.
“Do my tithes or donations really help the needy?”
“What’s my money being used for?”
“How much do they already have in their offers?”
So, tell us, just how much money is needed to run a charity or a religious organisation? Is it right that they be run and financed like a private corporation? Or is the concept of a simply-run, no-frills church an out-dated model in this day and age?
If we are to say that CHC is innocent until proven otherwise, then why are they linked to other fraud cases like Ming Yi, NKF, Youth Challenge?
If the journalistic ethic codes are to be applied here, I guess the media is just not putting them at a fair and just platform but a off-balanced one, no?
Quoting quotes from both parties (for & against) does not make your piece a balanced writing. You could say you are fair by asking opinions from both sides, but obviously, NOT balance. By trying to deny their work on the community, well that’s a fact. Why not try to find out how many people they have helped? Instead of suggesting how many luxurious cars they bought – which, could be not true. None of the facts and figures are cited from the reliable sources anyway so why not, do your homework first before anything is posted up?
I am concern, at how the media reporting their news nowadays, no longer just reporting the information, but sensationalize it, painting pictures, suggesting things that might not be true and misleading because media holds the power to shape opinion. What is the reason for all this? Just so that people would come to your website more? Or simply because you hold something against the issue.
Perhaps this is just another platform for people to write whatever they want, forfeiting the real role of journalist/media. What a pity.
Agree with PAul and Relak Brudder, Church is not a charity organisation, they dont go around asking for donation. In fact it is the duty of Christian to tithe. In fact, Pastor Kong always talks about dont give if you are not happy because GOD loves a cheerful giver.
Just wonder if i willing to give my son money and he squander it, what can i do ? Can i go to COC or CAD to report him ?Let us not forget that the people donate to the Church or any other organisation voluntarily. Money is needed to expand the Church and extend welfare to people less fortunate. Some money has to be kept in reserve but nobody can possibly say how much is enough. If the 310 million was just given to poor people then it would be a one off thing whereas building a future will create more help and charity in the long term. A poor man cannot help a poor man!
It is clear that somethings are not right, if not the CAD would not have arrested 17 people an grill them form more than 18hours, and taken 400 boxes of evidence away for investigation. If church is not a charity organisation what for do they need so much money to buy suntec and a 47 milllion building?
Totally agree that this article is outright biased. Please don’t point fingers without knowing what’s going on. By the way, the people who tithe and donated did not make noise. So why are the public so concerned, i wonder.
KT on June 2, 2010 at 6:52 am
Agree with PAul and Relak Brudder, Church is not a charity organisation, they dont go around asking for donation. In fact it is the duty of Christian to tithe. In fact, Pastor Kong always talks about dont give if you are not happy because GOD loves a cheerful giver.
Just wonder if i willing to give my son money and he squander it, what can i do ? Can i go to COC or CAD to report him ?
————————————————
When you give it to your son, it’s your son’s, so let him spend.
When you give tithing to your church, it’s your church’s, so let it spend.
Remember, it is your church’s money ok, not your pastor’s.
But even if you let your church spend your money in anyway.
Remember that churches have other standards governing them.
Your son can spend your money on booze, but a church can’t.
So different, how to compare?Has the final judgment been passed? As if you know what is going, talk so much only you people. ZZZZZZZ
You Guys Need To Understand that nothin gis comfirmed and you simply can’t say “another NKF” case!I’ve attended CHC since 2004 and I have seen our money being put to good use! After reading comments like : Stupid Church, stupid pastor etc. I am really very mad at these people! What proof that you have that CHC is Guilty?? None Right? So don’t start talking rubbish if you don’t have any proof!And Btw, we people voluteer to donate and the Church DOES NOT FORCE US TO DONATE!
It’s not confirmed that Pastor Kong really did that yet. God says we shouldn’t judge people based on just this. We aren’t the judge. God is. Maybe all this is part of God’s plan. Maybe a misunderstanding to raise people’s awareness of Christianity. I dunno. I believed in Pastor Kong. He’s a great pastor. He and Sun Ho spent over 20 years of tremendous effort jus to build CHC. He won’t just throw these efforts into the drain just like this. It’s cos of his calling from God to build the church. I believe he won’t disappoint God. There must be a reason behind this incident. Something uncovered. Something yet to be found. God works in mysterious and mighty ways. According to my pastor, Pastor Kong prayed earnestly for a bigger area at suntec and because God recognises his prayer, it became priority prayer and God really grant him the wish and encourage him to grow the church even further. He is and always will be a respected pastor.
the result is not out yet so the people who are talking nonsence better stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
will keep chc in prayers!!!!!!!!!!!!!I know God is a good God So CHC havr faith and we will overcome this situation!!!!!!!!!!Let god be the JUDGE? What crap talk. In real world right now…. the government is the judge. If you are bad people, God will punish you when you died or when you are not around in this world. Pls wake up and stop dreaming. Right now…government is the real GOD. Judgement is by them. Dig that?
under investigation = test from God
convicted = forgive and forget
acquitted = praise lordso easy!
-
Mind Control is a series of psychological practices that allow unscrupulous leaders to manipulate the people under them (read the Cultwatch site www.HowCultsWork.com if you do not understand how Mind Control works). The cults are where you find Mind Control since those practices allow money, effort, and obedience to be easily extracted from cult followers. However, in our recent past, Mind Control practices made inroads into the Christian Church, and tremendous damage resulted. It all started three decades ago with six men - Derek Prince, Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson, Don Basham, Ern Baxter, and John Poole - who in the 1970s propagated a church government of delegated authority and covenant loyalty under their organization "Christian Growth Ministries", based in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Their teaching was known as the Shepherding or Discipling Movement and effectively acted as a Christian "wrapper" for Mind Control, giving these practices a veneer of biblical respectability. They taught a covenant love that evidenced devotion to God by submission to a man; shepherds ruling over sheep in a pyramid structure. Down through the pyramid went the orders, and up through the pyramid went the tithes. Some shepherds even started placing personal revelations (rhëma) on a par with Scripture. However the excesses of the movement soon became evident even to those who had started it. Derek Prince was the first to break away, repenting publicly in 1981, saying, "I feel as though I have offended the Lord Himself", and "these particular emphases very easily lent themselves to an unhealthy submission resulting in perverse and unbiblical obedience to human leaders". Over time we understand all of the other five men rejected the unbiblical monster they had created, and so the teaching disappeared from the Christian Church, doomed to be exiled forever to pseudo Christian cults like the International Church of Christ. Or so it seemed. Not many Christian leaders are students of recent church history and so some things that should not have been forgotten, were lost.
Morphing its wrapper by using different phrases in place of old, and being championed by different leaders, the Mind Control monster is re-emerging in the Christian Church. Once again it is being touted as the next wave, the way forward for the Church, and a great deal of Christian Leaders are embracing it. The ordinary Christian may have heard rumblings of it's advance as new wrapper phrases for these Mind Control concepts are bandied about. Phrases that are familiar to Christians, but unbeknown to them have new meanings; phrases like "Apostolic", "The Local Church", "Apostolic Mandate", "Submission", "Tithing", "Church Government", "Authority", "Umbrella of Divine Protection", "Set Man", "Anointing", "Fivefold Ministry", and others. Instead of being called Shepherds, power seeking leaders are now calling themselves "Apostles" and demanding that all Christendom come to heel. God, they say, has anointed them as the new leaders. Only they can hear from God, and unless you obey and submit to them you cannot do God's will.
The prime mover for this second wave of Mind Control is Charles Peter Wagner, born in New York City in 1930. Wagner calls the movement the "New Apostolic Reformation" and has started several organizations to promote it including the "New Apostolic Roundtable" and the "International Coalition of Apostles". Wagner is said to have been designated the "pre-eminent Apostle", although it is hard to be sure since much of their manoeuvring is done in secret. But assuming this to be the case, then Wagner would be at the top of the new pyramid, with "Translocal" apostles below him, "Apostles to the City" below them, pastors below them, and so on. In his book "Apostles Of The City: How To Mobilize The Territorial Apostles For City Transformation" Wagner's writing on the subject of Apostles to the City defines them as those, "whom the Holy Spirit gives an anointing for extraordinary authority in spiritual matters over the other Christian leaders in the same city".
Already this "Attack of the Super Apostles" has infiltrated the Christian Church. Cultwatch has been contacted by an increasing amount of people who have read our www.HowCultsWork.com article and are saying that they have seen these Mind Control practices at work in their Churches, under the guise of the Super Apostles' teaching. City Pastors have even been called to meetings where another Pastor in their city has informed them that God has given him the "Apostolic Mandate" to rule their city, and so their submission is required. Christians are being damaged while the Super Apostles themselves are growing rich.Finally this episode can be closed, thanks to all the fellow forum runners whom had make many sleeping night to dig up all the trash in City Harvest Church helping coc and cad to make their job much easier.
I pray all the innocent member of City Harvest Church will not lose faith just because they had believed into a false spiritual leaders.
Lord I pray you open theirs ears and eyes now to know the truth nothing but the truth that Only Christ and Christ alone that we can go Heaven. And that is ONLY CHIRST that for our eternal live He became man to save us from damnation and Christ our Lord had stated clearly that man cannot serve two masters.
Lord I Praise you, Father God for not allowing this scam to go on and on especially in Singapore right in our home. Lord I also pray that New Creation Church in Singapore is also another scam and con church, Father I pray you will also exposed this New Creation Church from misleading the people here in Singapore.
AMEMExcuse me, what deception, confusion and deceit that we have sowed to protect kong hee? and wait a second... "wrong-doings"? are you a judge in the judicial system?
I have always maintained that we need verifiable information regarding the actions taken by the COC/CAD or whatever offices. Now that the information has been reported in the news, we have to wait for the investigation to be concluded and for the CAD to announce their findings.
You saying that the church is wrong, does NOT make it so. Only the Singapore Law can say if it has indeed broken any.
And by the way, i'm not protecting Kong Hee. I want the truth to be out, and the truth can clear ALL our doubts and questions when the official report is out. And if the people involved are being charged by the CAD, then so be it. But for now, let's just WAIT for the official investigation to be concluded --> it won't take very long.
Please at least have some maturity and responsibility to recognize that there are people here who think differently from you. I am trying to be as objectively as possible, while you are just sowing accusations. -
i just find it scary how intelligent people can be blinded too. if their resentment is ever tapped by the wrong people, consequences will be dire.
-
Originally posted by sir_peanuts:
i just find it scary how intelligent people can be blinded too. if their resentment is ever tapped by the wrong people, consequences will be dire.
What is faith?
It is believing without questioning.
It's a double edged sword.
-
ALL SIN IN THE NAME OF "LOVE"