Why Darwinism isn't true.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Exactly. Why it exists. Not the creator. U have to understand its creation, before u can understand its creator.I have not understood why my penis can become big sometimes and also small sometimes.
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
I have not understood why my penis can become big sometimes and also small sometimes.
You want me to give u some idea ?
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Maro:
1. There is no need to capitalize 'science' and 'theory'. They are just words, not some sacrosanct entity.
2. Your idea of truth still eludes me. Can you define it more objectively, because I suspect that my interpretation is starkly different from yours.
If some event or observation is overwhelmingly evident and verifiable, then it is true, is it not?
In simple logic:
Observation X occurs in all experiments created.
It is true that X occurs. It is a fact that X occurs. (I find this 2 statements equivalent)
A theory X* explains why X occurs within the framework on science. X* should be consistent with all phenomena that is predicts.
So X is true and X* explains why its true.
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How objectively do u want ? You seem like a reasonably intelligent person in this entire thread, what is it that eludes you? I am merely stating and no agreeing in Science = Truth/Fact as stated by reservist(dude).
Even before man has walked the earth, gravity has existed(Truth). Man has taken advantage of the phenomenon of gravity, but that time it wasnt called gravity yes ? Science called it gravity.
What is true, and is a fact, changes over time. I did not say u are wrong. You still dont get it .
All i am saying is, Science.. IS NOT TRUTH .
What is TRUE might not be the TRUTH. Do u understand what i am trying to say.
Example:
You are stupid = Fact / True
Science which uses one of its arms, and that is Psychology to explain WHY you are stupid and the answer after using the Binet-Simon test = Theory
Answer: LOW IQ
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
How objectively do u want ? You seem like a reasonably intelligent person in this entire thread, what is it that eludes you? I am merely stating and no agreeing in Science = Truth/Fact as stated by reservist(dude).
Even before man has walked the earth, gravity has existed(Truth). Man has taken advantage of the phenomenon of gravity, but that time it wasnt called gravity yes ? Science called it gravity.
What is true, and is a fact, changes over time. I did not say u are wrong. You still dont get it .
All i am saying is, Science.. IS NOT TRUTH .
What is TRUE might not be the TRUTH. Do u understand what i am trying to say.
Example:
You are stupid = Fact / True
Science which uses one of its arms, and that is Psychology to explain WHY you are stupid and the answer after using the Binet-Simon test = Theory
Answer: LOW IQ
Is it a theory that all planets revolve around the Sun?
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Originally posted by Larryteo:
Is it a theory that all planets revolve around the Sun?
To answer it correctly,
It is the truth, that in our solar system, the planets revolves around our sun. The Heliocentric theory explains the truth of it.
However , it revolves in an elliptical manner because of this strange geometry of the even stranger thing called spacetime , and it is the equations we use to describe this warping of space (as laid out by Einstein). We have SOME idea of how and why things are the way they are, but the equations merely describe the truth, they are not the truth itself.
Again , Science explains How and Why.
Do u understand ?
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Perhaps your idea of 'truth' is with absolute certainity, is that what you mean? In that case what you are searching for is technically called a 'proof' in the mathematical sense. As long as we properly define numbers and the addition operator, the statement "1+1 = 2" is true, there is no other way out.
Unfortunately, very few laws of science can be 'proven' rigourously like this. The only one I can think of is the 2nd Law of Thermo because its is largely a purely mathematical derivation.
I think this 'truth' of yours is no different from asking a never-ending sequence of whys. Do you see the relation?
At this point you must be aware of the current situation of research theoretical physics. Right now, there are 2 huge fields in physics: general relativity and quantum theory. These 2 theories are hugely successful in predicting many of the physical phenomena. They have answered a long sequences of why's to explain the current state of the Universe.
However, it is clear that these 2 individual parts are still incomplete because they fail to combine nicely. As such, there are extreme situations such as inside black holes and at the beginning of the universe where science do not have the full answer. Someday in the future, some one smart enough may combine these 2 great theories into what is practically a Thoery of Everything which will describe every aspect of the universe from conception to death.
Unless the ToE is so powerful it predicts itself, then it is pretty much the end of the road. Science cannot answer why ToE but it can bring us so tantalising close to "understanding the mind of God". I believe it is this final 'why' which is your interpretation of the 'truth'.
From this point, it will be up to Theologians and Philosophers to debate if the theory was drawn up by a diving creator or a flying monster with sphaghetti appendages.
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Originally posted by Deadstroke:
Perhaps your idea of 'truth' is with absolute certainity, is that what you mean? In that case what you are searching for is technically called a 'proof' in the mathematical sense. As long as we properly define numbers and the addition operator, the statement "1+1 = 2" is true, there is no other way out.
Unfortunately, very few laws of science can be 'proven' rigourously like this. The only one I can think of is the 2nd Law of Thermo because its is largely a purely mathematical derivation.
I think this 'truth' of yours is no different from asking a never-ending sequence of whys. Do you see the relation?
At this point you must be aware of the current situation of research theoretical physics. Right now, there are 2 huge fields in physics: general relativity and quantum theory. These 2 theories are hugely successful in predicting many of the physical phenomena. They have answered a long sequences of why's to explain the current state of the Universe.
However, it is clear that these 2 individual parts are still incomplete because they fail to combine nicely. As such, there are extreme situations such as inside black holes and at the beginning of the universe where science do not have the full answer. Someday in the future, some one smart enough may combine these 2 great theories into what is practically a Thoery of Everything which will describe every aspect of the universe from conception to death.
Unless the ToE is so powerful it predicts itself, then it is pretty much the end of the road. Science cannot answer why ToE but it can bring us so tantalising close to "understanding the mind of God". I believe it is this final 'why' which is your interpretation of the 'truth'.
From this point, it will be up to Theologians and Philosophers to debate if the theory was drawn up by a diving creator or a flying monster with sphaghetti appendages.
1 + 1 = 2 is true... but not really the TRUTH!k k.. i am glad, it is finally settled. We have come to an understanding that its a never ending WHYs. Thats my whole point. Finally... somebody.. that understands ! I thought i was talking to rocks the whole time in this forum.
Thats why, we must keep an open mind! The possibilities. Thats what i am trying to bring forth, the relationship between science and religion.
And indeed, that time, it will be up to Theologians and Philosophers to battle it out. And we will long be dead by then.
And yes.. it is possible , by a flying monster with sphaghetti appendages. lol!
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His definition of truth is
"it must come from theologist"
Tat is why nothing else is truth to him. For other people, truth means it is true, correct. But he say 1+1 is not truth, gravity is not truth then obviously he do not know what is truth.Below is the definition of truth from the dictionary. Choose 1. Show to me tat it 1+1 is not the truth there.
truth
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1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth. 2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths. 4. the state or character of being true. 5. actuality or actual existence. 6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude. 7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness. 8. (often initial capital letter 
) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life. 9. agreement with a standard or original. 10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment. 11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy. -
Accoding to badzmaro idea of "truth", then theologist never tell the truth too. They just tell grandfather story. Lets say jesus christ exist and is the truth. Theologist just tell stories about him and wat he do etc. They r true, but they r not the truth. The truth is jesus christ. SO theologist just tell grandather stories, and no truth
Tat is why science cannot tell the truth, nothing can tell the truth because his definition of truth is in hebrew and not in english. According to him, even if it is true, it is not the truth.
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what you are people up to ?
word game ?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
His definition of truth is
"it must come from theologist"
Tat is why nothing else is truth to him. For other people, truth means it is true, correct. But he say 1+1 is not truth, gravity is not truth then obviously he do not know what is truth.Below is the definition of truth from the dictionary. Choose 1. Show to me tat it 1+1 is not the truth there.
truth
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth. 2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths. 4. the state or character of being true. 5. actuality or actual existence. 6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude. 7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness. 8. (often initial capital letter
) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life. 9. agreement with a standard or original. 10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment. 11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.Do u understand the subtlety of TRUE and TRUTH ? To understand the subtle meaning? If they are the same... why two words ? Fact, True and Truth are different. Something that is true is not absolute. What is wrong with understanding the word? Truth is something exist whether we know or not and is immutable. 'U cant handle the TRUTH.. not u cant handle the true stuff'
Whether we KNOW the truth.. is another matter. Whether we can comprehend the truth, based on the current knowledge we have, to the understand , our concept. 200 laters, it may not be the truth, then how can it be the truth if it is not true ? It may be true at that time.. and looking back, they will say we are so stupid, lucky we not born in that era.
Oh.. and i never said Gravity is not the truth. I explicitly said Gravity is the truth.. Newtons is true on this planet for now, until proven otherwise. But the existence of gravity will still be the truth. Are u putting words in my mouth now ?
Or is this simple concept overloading your limited capacity to understand. Do u even understand the word understand ?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Accoding to badzmaro idea of "truth", then theologist never tell the truth too. They just tell grandfather story. Lets say jesus christ exist and is the truth. Theologist just tell stories about him and wat he do etc. They r true, but they r not the truth. The truth is jesus christ. SO theologist just tell grandather stories, and no truth
Tat is why science cannot tell the truth, nothing can tell the truth because his definition of truth is in hebrew and not in english. According to him, even if it is true, it is not the truth.
I am not talking about theologist here. Just trying to separate the concept here what is true.. and what is the truth. Science is not about searching the truth. Its about unravelling the mysteries of the universe.The Jesus example is correct. Yes u get it. So why is it so hard ?
Right now, we may have a misunderstanding of the word truth and true.
In the days of Coppernicus, they regarded that earth is the centre of the universe. And they claim that is the TRUTH. But he managed to discover that it is wrong! So it is not true. The truth is we revolve around the sun. But my point is, during that time they consider it true. And its not the truth is it. Now, we know the truth. What is true.. may not be the truth. Even if all the people on the planet think otherwise, it is still the truth!
So yes, accordingly to me, what is true may not be the truth. Bravo. Simple concept yes no ?
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Come on la... u know wat is the subtle difference between true and truth ? True is usually used as an adverb or adjective while truth is normally used as a noun. The definition of truth is really "the true or actual state of a matter". Tat is english. U don't define the word truth. U follow. And if u talk about " You can't handle the truth" and "U can't handle the true facts". The meaning is the same. It is just tat the first one sounds shorter.And if u want to add "fact" inside, from the dictionary it is "something that actually exists; reality; truth". Again fact =truth=true except it is adjective, noun or u wanna rephrase the wording of a sentence
And u don't use time to confuse people. The coffee may be hot a second and cold in an hour. If the time I said "the coffee is hot" is when the coffee is hot, then it is the truth and true and a fact. It may be cold later but it doesn't make my previous statement wrong or a lie or not true, fact or truth.
Please use the dictionary and show me your definition. Otherwise u r not talking english. It is a basic fact tat if your word used is different from the meaning in the dictionary, u r not talking english.
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So yes, accordingly to me, what is true may not be the truth. Bravo. Simple concept yes no ?
please use dictionary and show me how something tat is true and not be the truth. Thank you.
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That is your understanding. Fair enough.
I am not saying you are wrong. Based on your scenario is what is true is fact is the truth. I have no problem understanding your concept of the truth.
Why cant u just accept the possibility that what is true may not be the truth.
I understand your meaning of the truth put in your context.
My truth is simple = actual existence.
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My truth is simple = actual existence.
SO is your truth = English truth ? If it is not I think u r not talking english here. Do u agree with me ? U do not set the standard of english. If u believe communication is to allow everybody to be understood, u follow the medium, which is language so everybody can understand. If we can define any words we want, then nobody understand each other.
I can say "owe" actually to me means "borrow", then all the IOU I signed become the prove everybody owes me money. Wat do u think the world will be like ?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
please use dictionary and show me how something tat is true and not be the truth. Thank you.
Very simple .. for ALL your benefit AGAIN.Before Coppernicus, people thought that earth is the centre of the universe, and other objects go around it. Now at that time, that statement is considered true. But is it the truth ?
Even if the WHOLE WORLD believes the statement to be true, the TRUTH is, the earth revolves around the sun. In actual reality, we revolve around the sun. It doesnt matter !
Whether u think its true or false, it does not matter, we still revolve around the sun. And that is the truth! Whether we accept it to be the truth or not.
Now fast forward to now, based with all the facts and information we have, we may think something is true, but is it.. the truth ? 500 laters we may find out new stuffs, and realised we are wrong. What we say is true now, may not be the truth.
I am not saying everything that is true is not the truth. I am just saying, that is my definition of truth and true. Thats it.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
SO is your truth = English truth ? If it is not I think u r not talking english here. Do u agree with me ? U do not set the standard of english. If u believe communication is to allow everybody to be understood, u follow the medium, which is language so everybody can understand. If we can define any words we want, then nobody understand each other.
I can say "owe" actually to me means "borrow", then all the IOU I signed become the prove everybody owes me money. Wat do u think the world will be like ?
Go to Dictionary.com and type in the word TRUTH. I am talking english, perhaps, its YOUR limited understanding of the word.
What do u think i was trying to do all this while ? Arent i now trying to explain ? Its been quite a few posts already. Do u understand the words that are coming out from my mouth? Well...not literally, but i am talking out aloud while typing this. Using keyboard, appearing on ur side as text.
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Originally posted by laffin123:
Hi Douglas,
I wish you success in learning science.
Also, in the future, please do not use your "artificial fossil argument" to invalidate Darwinism, especially to people who studied science. You get ridiculed for using lop-sided argument.
sincerely
laffin
I REALLY loved this reply... "I wish you success in learning science." XD!!!!!
@Douglas: Proving that fossils can be created within short spans of time does not prove that there were no fossils that originated from 3.5b years ago, and therefore does not in any way invalidate the possibility of Darwinian theory.
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Before Coppernicus, people thought that earth is the centre of the universe, and other objects go around it. Now at that time, that statement is considered true. But is it the truth ?
In your statement, u use two different standards here. One is coppernicus impression and the other is your impression. If u look from the english point of view, it is the truth then tat the earth is the center of the universe.If u ask them "is it the truth tat earth is the center of the universe" and they answer "yes it is the truth". From an english point of view, it is not wrong. U got to understand tis. U r really saying the *subjective truth" is not equal to the real truth. But no matter wat, true=truth (except adjective, noun)
Now the only problem is, u feel tat science can say a lot of things now, but they may be wrong. Is tat the thing u r trying to say all the time ? Isn't it easier if u say it tat way ?
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And another thing is, if u look at gravity, it is true, and truth tat things fall down to the ground and it is define as gravity. No matter wat happens in the future, tat statement is always true because things realy felt to the gound now. SO how could u say tat is not the truth ?
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No, "1+1 = 2" is true regardless of the physical universe. Mathematics is an inpendent and separate entity from existance. Aliens will know "1+1 = 2", other universes (if there are parallel universes) can develop mathematics that is exactly the same as what man has done.
Its a difficult concept to understand, so I will try to make an example, but not a very good one.
In mathematics, we can theoretically calculate the value of pi without any physical measurements. However, this value of pi is only true if the geometry of the space is 'flat' (ie, parallel lines never meet and etc.) Yet, this universe of ours might be not perfectly flat (parallel lines can diverge or intersect). Consequently, the real value of the ratio of the circumference to diameter is slightly. Thus, you can see that this value of pi is independent of physical existance. It does not need to be created.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
In your statement, u use two different standards here. One is coppernicus impression and the other is your impression. If u look from the english point of view, it is the truth then tat the earth is the center of the universe.If u ask them "is it the truth tat earth is the center of the universe" and they answer "yes it is the truth". From an english point of view, it is not wrong.
Now the only problem is, u feel tat science can say a lot of things now, but they may be wrong. Is tat the thing u r trying to say all the time ? Isn't it easier if u say it tat way ?
I am using Truth as concept 5: Actual Existence.
From an english point of view, its not wrong . I agree
No, i am here hoping you guys are smart enough to understand. I see all the truth, true and fact, so i wanted to talk more chim with you guys. I didnt know u guys were that stupid.
Sorry for the language, you may feel anger or irritation, but i dont know what other simple words anymore to describe how i feel.
You have to forgive me. I am sorry.
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so to the basic statement, 1+1=2 or gravity makes things fall to the ground or earth the truth or not ? U can't win in tis u see. The word is defined as such. U r not fighting about the facts of the world here but the definition of the word "2" and "gravity"
I can't help laughing when I hear someone say tat 1+1=2 is not the truth. How do u define the word "2" ?