simplified bible
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Originally posted by Servant:
Thu church has brought the sun gods wholesale in? Funny thing is that I've never heard of them before. So if 25th Dec happens to coincide with Hitler's birthday, do we worship Hitler? Yes, the actual birthday and resurrection days of Jesus may not be exactly on Christmas and Easter Days itself, but so what? Isn't it more important to remember and celebrate the days for what they signify than whether it actually happened historically on that day?
When Aaron made the golden calf for the Israelites at Mount Sinai, he had still proclaimed the celebration that attended its inauguration the “feast of the Lord.” (Exodus 32:5). Yet, this did not prevent the wrath of God from falling upon them. This is exactly what the church is doing...
Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29–32).Yet the church has not obeyed...
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Originally posted by Servant:
I'm not sure if you've realised by now that your bizzare, unsubstantiated and offensive attacks on the Catholic faith (in this post and others) speak volumes about the kind of religion that you subscribe to. One thing you have helped me confirm is that Catholics will continue to endure these relentless attacks as Jesus himself warned his church that we will be persecuted if we follow Him, just as he was persecuted by his enemies. A word of advice - ask Catholics for what Catholics believe, don't ask an anti-Catholic for what Catholics believe as you will end up committing the sin of bearing false witness against your neighbour.
All my points that I have brought up are substantiated by historical fact so how can they be bizzare? just do your research... understand your bible. FYI, Yeshua never went to church, nor did He start one. He went to synagogue and kept all the feasts of Yahweh... so I ask you this question, if the rcc claims to follow Him and G_d how come they do not follow what He has ordained? How do you explain that the rcc celebrates christmas and easter and not the more important feasts of passover, feast of unleavened bread, feast of first fruits, pentacost, rosh hashanah, yom kippur and feast of tabernacles?
The worst bit for you is that you are not even following Yeshua and yet still get persecuted. I don't need to ask catholics for what catholics believe, I know what you believe... I came from there...and will NEVER return. Yet you commit the far greater sin of not keeping His feasts and His appointed times as well as not keeping Shabbat... the penalty for which is death... you go figure. The purpose of all this is to warn you ahead of time for the love of your soul, to warn you and ask you to open your eyes to do the relevant research so that you don't go into something blind.. at least make the effort to seek the truth not just blindly follow... not to put an attack against the rcc or any church for that matter...
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
the round wafer of bread itself is also a sun symbol, that imagery that you so speak of is a copy of all things which are linked to pagan sun worship. the eucharist turns into real flesh?... ie rcs are cannibals? Yeshua is risen and seated at the right hand of Yahweh, so by saying that the eucharist is actually the flesh of Yeshua is to say that He left some part of Himself here? Now who is the absurd one...
Then you are calling Jesus absurd because He is the one who instituted the Eucharist at the last supper the night before He was betrayed. We can only speculate why God chooses to continue to lavish His graces upon us in this manner. Bread which sustains our bodies, also sustains our souls through this unique sacrament when it has been consecrated. Although there are many other means, this is probably the most significant and important way that He continues to pour out His grace on us till this very day.
So frankly, this is not something which the Catholic church dreamt of, but a direct command from Jesus Christ himself. As He mentioned in the Gospel of John, chap 6:
48I am the bread of life. 49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
52 Then the Jews (CF)began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Please go and read Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah) chapter 10. Do you not know the origins of chirstmas??
The Catholic Encyclopedia tells us: "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts;
Historians acknowledge that the earliest December 25 celebration of Christ’s birth "took place at Rome about the middle of the fourth century… The first mention of a Nativity feast on December 25 is found in a Roman document known as the Philocalian Calendar, dating from the year 354 [ad]… From Rome, Christmas spread throughout the West, with the conversion of the barbarians" (Miles, pp. 20–21). The Bible, of course, does not mention the date of Jesus’ birth. "The real reason for the choice of the day [December 25] most probably was, that upon it fell the pagan festival" that celebrated the rebirth of the sun (ibid., p. 23).
Hoping to encourage pagans to embrace the Roman Catholic faith, clerics sought to adapt pagan customs into their religion by giving them new names. Pope Gregory I, writing in 601ad, urged Augustine of Canterbury to allow the pagan Anglo-Saxons to retain the outward forms of their old festivals, but to practice them with a new meaning (Miles, p. 179). As one author concludes, reflecting on the Pope’s letter, "We see here very plainly the mind of the ecclesiastical compromiser" (ibid.).Catholic historian Will Durant acknowledged this plainly when he wrote, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it… the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the Mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the idea of the Trinity… the adoration of the Mother and Child, and the mystic theosophy that made Neoplatonism and Gnosticism and obscured the Christian creed… From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother… Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient pagan world" (Caesar and Christ, p. 595).
"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god. Easter is the worship of Ishtar the fertility goddess...it has and will never have anything to do with the ressurection of Yeshua. Does the bible tell you to celebrate easter??
When Aaron made the golden calf for the Israelites at Mount Sinai, he had still proclaimed the celebration that attended its inauguration the “feast of the Lord.” (Exodus 32:5). Yet, this did not prevent the wrath of God from falling upon them. This is exactly what the church is doing...
Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29–32).Yet the church has not obeyed...
Sorry, I still don't see how the origins of a particular practice leads to pagan practice today. For 2000 years, I'm sure practices will develop (not change) to a certain degree, especially when cultural influences are absorbed along the way. So if people worship in English today instead of Hebrew / Greek and build churches that look more local rather than those in the early church, are they pagan??
But the most ironic part here is that despite all these 'paganisation' as you call it, the Catholic church today still most closely resembles the beliefs and the way the early Christians worshipped, especially as seen in the book of Acts and in the writings of the early church fathers.
For the facts on Easter's origins, pls read http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903chap.asp, so please stop this illogical reasoning that "this sounds like that, so everything about this is equal to that".
About the Jeremiah passage, how do you know Jeremiah was referring to Christmas trees and not a hundred other possibilities? You mean Christmas trees existed in Jeremiah's time and he was dutifully warning them against the trees??
And about the Israelites at Mt Sinai, of course they brought down the wrath of God because it's a golden calf! Again, Catholics don't worship Christmas trees, Easter bunnies, the sun, the moon or whatever else, except our Heavenly Father.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
All my points that I have brought up are substantiated by historical fact so how can they be bizzare? just do your research... understand your bible. FYI, Yeshua never went to church, nor did He start one. He went to synagogue and kept all the feasts of Yahweh... so I ask you this question, if the rcc claims to follow Him and G_d how come they do not follow what He has ordained? How do you explain that the rcc celebrates christmas and easter and not the more important feasts of passover, feast of unleavened bread, feast of first fruits, pentacost, rosh hashanah, yom kippur and feast of tabernacles?
The worst bit for you is that you are not even following Yeshua and yet still get persecuted. I don't need to ask catholics for what catholics believe, I know what you believe... I came from there...and will NEVER return. Yet you commit the far greater sin of not keeping His feasts and His appointed times as well as not keeping Shabbat... the penalty for which is death... you go figure. The purpose of all this is to warn you ahead of time for the love of your soul, to warn you and ask you to open your eyes to do the relevant research so that you don't go into something blind.. at least make the effort to seek the truth not just blindly follow... not to put an attack against the rcc or any church for that matter...
Again, the same old rhetoric about you being absolutely right and that the Catholic church will be condemned to hell for 'not even following Jesus' and 'not keeping His feasts' etc etc, amidst a list of other insults.
Enough said, sigh.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
All my points that I have brought up are substantiated by historical fact so how can they be bizzare? just do your research... understand your bible. FYI, Yeshua never went to church, nor did He start one. He went to synagogue and kept all the feasts of Yahweh... so I ask you this question, if the rcc claims to follow Him and G_d how come they do not follow what He has ordained? How do you explain that the rcc celebrates christmas and easter and not the more important feasts of passover, feast of unleavened bread, feast of first fruits, pentacost, rosh hashanah, yom kippur and feast of tabernacles?
The worst bit for you is that you are not even following Yeshua and yet still get persecuted. I don't need to ask catholics for what catholics believe, I know what you believe... I came from there...and will NEVER return. Yet you commit the far greater sin of not keeping His feasts and His appointed times as well as not keeping Shabbat... the penalty for which is death... you go figure. The purpose of all this is to warn you ahead of time for the love of your soul, to warn you and ask you to open your eyes to do the relevant research so that you don't go into something blind.. at least make the effort to seek the truth not just blindly follow... not to put an attack against the rcc or any church for that matter...
I pray that you will read this article with an open mind - www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp
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Originally posted by Servant:
I pray that you will read this article with an open mind - www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp
of course a catholic would not call catholism pagan... rolls eyeballs... grief!
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Originally posted by Servant:
Again, the same old rhetoric about you being absolutely right and that the Catholic church will be condemned to hell for 'not even following Jesus' and 'not keeping His feasts' etc etc, amidst a list of other insults.
Enough said, sigh.
do you keep His feasts simple question yes or no? They are listed for you in the old testament and Yahweh says they are His feasts to be kept through out all generations. So yes or no answer, do you keep HIS feasts?
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Originally posted by Servant:
Sorry, I still don't see how the origins of a particular practice leads to pagan practice today. For 2000 years, I'm sure practices will develop (not change) to a certain degree, especially when cultural influences are absorbed along the way. So if people worship in English today instead of Hebrew / Greek and build churches that look more local rather than those in the early church, are they pagan??
But the most ironic part here is that despite all these 'paganisation' as you call it, the Catholic church today still most closely resembles the beliefs and the way the early Christians worshipped, especially as seen in the book of Acts and in the writings of the early church fathers.
For the facts on Easter's origins, pls read http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903chap.asp, so please stop this illogical reasoning that "this sounds like that, so everything about this is equal to that".
About the Jeremiah passage, how do you know Jeremiah was referring to Christmas trees and not a hundred other possibilities? You mean Christmas trees existed in Jeremiah's time and he was dutifully warning them against the trees??
And about the Israelites at Mt Sinai, of course they brought down the wrath of God because it's a golden calf! Again, Catholics don't worship Christmas trees, Easter bunnies, the sun, the moon or whatever else, except our Heavenly Father.
I already gave you an example, when Aharon made the golden calf and worshipped it and called it the feast of Yahweh, it did not stop Yahweh from being angry with that... so what makes you think bringing pagan practices into the church and giving them a different name is ok for Yahweh? Like one writer said, paganism provided the rituals, and christianity the nomenclature... dressing a wolf in sheeps clothing still makes it a wolf, celebrating sol invictus or the brithdate of mirtha as the birth date of Yeshua still does not make it His birthday and still does not make a pagan ritual acceptable in the eyes of Yahweh. You do things HIS way and not the way man thinks it should be done. Yet I know so many who worship in english that are more like what the bible say we should be than the catholic church will EVER be. Practices like christmas and easter were NEVER entertained in the time of Yeshua and his disciples, even in the book of acts, we do not see the disciples celebrating easter or chirstmas. If Yeshua did not celebrate christmas, and His commandment to us is obey/follow Him as He obeys/follows the commandments of His Father, why are you celebrating christmas and easter? GO through the whole of the bible and find me the commandment to celebrate these two critical feasts in the christian/catholic faith.
please!! how does the catholic church resemble the belief system of the early believers. they were most certainly not "christian".go back and read and UNDERSTAND your bible. just comparing with the book of acts the church never existed and there was no such terminology...the church is so FAR different that it defies belief.
you claim to worship our Heavenly Father, so get rid of your idols, get rid of your pagan imagery... but remember He is the G_d of Avraham, Yitzak and Yakov. Not the G_d of the christian.
What do you do to a christmas tree? You put streamers around it decorate with gold and silver balls etc..these practices stem from the pagan rituals surrounding the christmas tree... yet the admonition from Yahweh was FOLLOW NOT THE WAY OF THE GENTILES(HEATHEN)... and what does the church do? exactly just that!
you see what you want to see I guess... only one word describes you... brainwashed.
I will refer you to this website... have a read of it for yourself... http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usmo&c=holidays&id=13036
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
I already gave you an example, when Aharon made the golden calf and worshipped it and called it the feast of Yahweh, it did not stop Yahweh from being angry with that... so what makes you think bringing pagan practices into the church and giving them a different name is ok for Yahweh? Like one writer said, paganism provided the rituals, and christianity the nomenclature... dressing a wolf in sheeps clothing still makes it a wolf, celebrating sol invictus or the brithdate of mirtha as the birth date of Yeshua still does not make it His birthday and still does not make a pagan ritual acceptable in the eyes of Yahweh. You do things HIS way and not the way man thinks it should be done. Yet I know so many who worship in english that are more like what the bible say we should be than the catholic church will EVER be. Practices like christmas and easter were NEVER entertained in the time of Yeshua and his disciples, even in the book of acts, we do not see the disciples celebrating easter or chirstmas. If Yeshua did not celebrate christmas, and His commandment to us is obey/follow Him as He obeys/follows the commandments of His Father, why are you celebrating christmas and easter? GO through the whole of the bible and find me the commandment to celebrate these two critical feasts in the christian/catholic faith.
please!! how does the catholic church resemble the belief system of the early believers. they were most certainly not "christian".go back and read and UNDERSTAND your bible. just comparing with the book of acts the church never existed and there was no such terminology...the church is so FAR different that it defies belief.
you claim to worship our Heavenly Father, so get rid of your idols, get rid of your pagan imagery... but remember He is the G_d of Avraham, Yitzak and Yakov. Not the G_d of the christian.
What do you do to a christmas tree? You put streamers around it decorate with gold and silver balls etc..these practices stem from the pagan rituals surrounding the christmas tree... yet the admonition from Yahweh was FOLLOW NOT THE WAY OF THE GENTILES(HEATHEN)... and what does the church do? exactly just that!
you see what you want to see I guess... only one word describes you... brainwashed.
I will refer you to this website... have a read of it for yourself... http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usmo&c=holidays&id=13036
Same old anti-Catholic, sorry, anti-Christian rhetoric (''God is not a God of Christians' as you put it).
Thank you for helping me believe that it is better to be 'brainwashed' in His Catholic church. You have done much to reaffirm my faith, especially in the way that you conduct yourself and your arguments. Peace!
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_fishingAccording to this dogma, it is accepted by Christ.
I find it amusing dat u actually believed something written by human on wikipedia. hahaha...surely u r not so light-headed?
Truly accepted by Christ? or written as accepted by christ? i leave u to ponder.
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Originally posted by Servant:
Same old anti-Catholic, sorry, anti-Christian rhetoric (''God is not a God of Christians' as you put it).
Thank you for helping me believe that it is better to be 'brainwashed' in His Catholic church. You have done much to reaffirm my faith, especially in the way that you conduct yourself and your arguments. Peace!
Bro we stick to our weekly masses, brey sticks to his own worship. At the end of our lives...we will come before God on the day of judgement. will we still be arguing then who's right & who's wrong in front of our creator? :)
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Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:
Bro we stick to our weekly masses, brey sticks to his own worship. At the end of our lives...we will come before God on the day of judgement. will we still be arguing then who's right & who's wrong in front of our creator? :)
Thanks much for your support and affirmation dear Sikoyo, completely agree with you. I guess this is an "occupational hazard" of the faith huh?
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Originally posted by Servant:
Same old anti-Catholic, sorry, anti-Christian rhetoric (''God is not a God of Christians' as you put it).
Thank you for helping me believe that it is better to be 'brainwashed' in His Catholic church. You have done much to reaffirm my faith, especially in the way that you conduct yourself and your arguments. Peace!
by your arugments you tell me that you don't even read and understand your bible. being brainwashed is no excuse when you stand before Him. Yahweh never sanctioned the catholic church, ever.
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Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:
Bro we stick to our weekly masses, brey sticks to his own worship. At the end of our lives...we will come before God on the day of judgement. will we still be arguing then who's right & who's wrong in front of our creator? :)
don't need to argue about that one... one of us will be right and the other wrong I guess... so we will see. or we could both be wrong... ; )
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Originally posted by Servant:
What aspect of the Catholic church is pagan and from where did it get this so-called paganism from?
like i mentioned..christmas day..easter day...using of rosary in prayers..idolatry..holy mother concept..trinity..these are but some of it i can remember off hand..where it stemmed from??remember the RCC was formed in where??ROme..Rome was known for??paganism..no RCC wasnt formed purely from 1st-3rd century christians..if that was the case..then all will be good..but christianity was intergrated into paganism..
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Now where do we start... but I think domon did mention two already, christmas and easter, go google it... even down to the items rc use for mass etc... its worship of the sun... hmmm the list can go on and on... just type history of chirstmas and easter and go read for yourself. These two in themselves should be quite enough...
thanks for pointing it out..btw...the use of the cross itself is paganistic..it is the symbol of tammuz if i remember it correctly..
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Originally posted by Servant:
Last I checked, I believe Christmas is a day where Catholics celebrate the birth of our Saviour, and his resurrection on Easter. I'll be hard pressed to find where christmas trees, santa clauses and easter bunnies figure in Catholic worship. And by the way, millions of non-Catholic Christians in Singapore and round the world also religiously celebrate these two sacred days, so please don't insult them.
Catholics worship the sun?? I think this shows very clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of Catholic beliefs and practices. I don't think I've ever worshipped the sun in the Mass or in any other sacrament all my life, so please don't say that we do something when we don't. Time to discard all the fiction that you may have heard or read about Catholicism.
kindly point out the verse to support 25th dec of the gregorian calander is the birth of JC..and also easter...25th dec was the celebration of the roman sun god's birth and return after the winter..they celebrated it the good old way of mass orgies..lots of debauchery and gluttony..25th dec in the hebrewic calendar was the time for shepherds to keep their sheeps at home as it was very cold and rainy...now jesus was born on the period when shepards had their sheeps out in the field and camp with them..if you know things about shepherding..you would know its no easy task to move the large amounts of sheeps in a single night or day...so that eleminates the birth of christ on 25th dec..as for easter..like what bro brey said...google it lor...
and you mentioned that millions of non christians celebrate so called holidays..means its not wrong??so things perceived by many must be right???that shallow??throw them any other holidays and im sure they will celebrate it too...
besides the most prominent holidays God's people are to keep was the sabbath and now the last supper..
RCC worshipping the son falls back on my 1st paragraph..
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Originally posted by Servant:
Thu church has brought the sun gods wholesale in? Funny thing is that I've never heard of them before. So if 25th Dec happens to coincide with Hitler's birthday, do we worship Hitler? Yes, the actual birthday and resurrection days of Jesus may not be exactly on Christmas and Easter Days itself, but so what? Isn't it more important to remember and celebrate the days for what they signify than whether it actually happened historically on that day?
Yes, I'll proudly say that I have a Christmas tree at home and I give Easter eggs. Am I replacing Jesus Christ with the tree and the eggs? I give Christmas presents and Easter eggs to my loved ones because I want to without any religious significance. They experience peace, love and joy as a result, what's wrong with this? And yes, we worship on Sunday for the simple reason that God rested on the 7th day after the creation of the world and asked us to keep that day holy. No coincidence also that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose on the 3rd day which is now called Sunday, or Easter Sunday. And no, our biggest Easter service is the Easter vigil mass the night before Easter morning.
The entire point about the monstrance is the Eucharist within that it contains, not about the monstrance itself. The imagery of light is used to decorate it as Jesus himself said that He is the light of the world. During the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Catholics focus on the consecrated bread (which by the way has on a few occassions miraculously turned into actual human flesh and kept till today, praise the Lord), not on the decorative sun rays.
I'm not sure if you've realised by now that your bizzare, unsubstantiated and offensive attacks on the Catholic faith (in this post and others) speak volumes about the kind of religion that you subscribe to. One thing you have helped me confirm is that Catholics will continue to endure these relentless attacks as Jesus himself warned his church that we will be persecuted if we follow Him, just as he was persecuted by his enemies. A word of advice - ask Catholics for what Catholics believe, don't ask an anti-Catholic for what Catholics believe as you will end up committing the sin of bearing false witness against your neighbour.
hmm..satan keeps transforming into an angel of light in order to deceive..do u ever read articles about how things came into being?or rather..do you even read the bible??let us take a look at your views by paragraph..
1st..yes..i do agree the birthday isnt important...as it was the death of the perfect human Jesus that was important..the ransom was paid..thats why we are told to commemorate the last supper..but never the birthday of Christ..the only 2 birthday celebrations in the bible was by erring kings and were profaning Jehovah/Yahweh on their birthday..making them equal or greater than Him..thus was duly punished..the celebration of birthdays marks both the day we are born and also makes the birthday person the most important person on that day..that itself is exulting oneself to an position that should be given to God..
eggs..sundays..how can we say sunday is the 7th day when some also says sunday is the 1st day of the week??thats why saturday is called weekend?by indulging in holidays(holy days) not of God's permission is as good as worshipping false gods...
3rd..so in your opinion, it is ok to use imagery to assist in the worship of God so long as in our heart lives God??what does God says about idolatry?if people love God, should they not live according to His standards instead of our own ways?
Brey bro had not been bizzare..he pointed out facts that christians should know..and RCC was way off from being suppressed..RCC started far to many wars..you wanna see christians groups being suppressed..take a look at Jehovah's Witnesses...
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
the round wafer of bread itself is also a sun symbol, that imagery that you so speak of is a copy of all things which are linked to pagan sun worship. the eucharist turns into real flesh?... ie rcs are cannibals? Yeshua is risen and seated at the right hand of Yahweh, so by saying that the eucharist is actually the flesh of Yeshua is to say that He left some part of Himself here? Now who is the absurd one...
also..Jesus cannot have been risen in the flesh as none of those of the flesh shall enter the heavens..
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Originally posted by Servant:
Then you are calling Jesus absurd because He is the one who instituted the Eucharist at the last supper the night before He was betrayed. We can only speculate why God chooses to continue to lavish His graces upon us in this manner. Bread which sustains our bodies, also sustains our souls through this unique sacrament when it has been consecrated. Although there are many other means, this is probably the most significant and important way that He continues to pour out His grace on us till this very day.
So frankly, this is not something which the Catholic church dreamt of, but a direct command from Jesus Christ himself. As He mentioned in the Gospel of John, chap 6:
48I am the bread of life. 49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
52 Then the Jews (CF)began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
can anything get clearer than this??or how crappy can humans get??
when Jesus said he is the living bread..he meant he is the way to the father..the only intercessor for humans and God..unleavened bread is used because yeast is considered "unclean" to help rise the bread..so unleavened bread=sinless..untainted..
durong the exodus..strange and wonderful manna was spawned to feed the jews..they ate and died eventually..but whomsoever "ate" the flesh of Jesus will live forever..meaning whomsoever follow the words of JC will live forever when earth is restored..or the selected few to be co heirs to the kingdom of God..in like manner..JC said he will rebuilt the temple of Jerusalem in 3 days..how is he gonna do that??again because his own body is the "temple" and God will rise JC up 3 days after his death..(note that i said God will rise JC,not God will rise God)
JC and the people present at the last supper were talking at different frequencies..JC was talking figuratively while the others were thinking literally..they didnt wanna be cannibals..feeding off the corpse of the greatest teacher ever lived..while JC wanted them to "eat" him so they might be saved..
actually..its just that simple..
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Originally posted by Servant:
Sorry, I still don't see how the origins of a particular practice leads to pagan practice today. For 2000 years, I'm sure practices will develop (not change) to a certain degree, especially when cultural influences are absorbed along the way. So if people worship in English today instead of Hebrew / Greek and build churches that look more local rather than those in the early church, are they pagan??
But the most ironic part here is that despite all these 'paganisation' as you call it, the Catholic church today still most closely resembles the beliefs and the way the early Christians worshipped, especially as seen in the book of Acts and in the writings of the early church fathers.
For the facts on Easter's origins, pls read http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903chap.asp, so please stop this illogical reasoning that "this sounds like that, so everything about this is equal to that".
About the Jeremiah passage, how do you know Jeremiah was referring to Christmas trees and not a hundred other possibilities? You mean Christmas trees existed in Jeremiah's time and he was dutifully warning them against the trees??
And about the Israelites at Mt Sinai, of course they brought down the wrath of God because it's a golden calf! Again, Catholics don't worship Christmas trees, Easter bunnies, the sun, the moon or whatever else, except our Heavenly Father.
the most ironic part is that RCC does nothing that resembles the true worship of God yet people think they are..its exactly like what the pharisees did back then and got screwed by JC..again..read the bible..compare it with the teachings of the churches..idolatry..
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Originally posted by Servant:
Same old anti-Catholic, sorry, anti-Christian rhetoric (''God is not a God of Christians' as you put it).
Thank you for helping me believe that it is better to be 'brainwashed' in His Catholic church. You have done much to reaffirm my faith, especially in the way that you conduct yourself and your arguments. Peace!
Yahweh/Jehovah..the God of adam, abraham, david, Jesus...the one true living God..christians was put in place to start the spiritual Israel since physical jews were no longer the favored people of Jehovah/Yahweh..it is the spiritual Israel that will be blessed..that was also why the start of revelation was addressed to all the elders of the congregations..the so call angels of the congregations was nothing more than elders..come a few more hundreds of years and humans destroyed the once pure christians and more sects of nicholas were born..in the end of days..people will come to me crying out "master,master" but i will tell them i do not know them.that was the warning given...
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
don't need to argue about that one... one of us will be right and the other wrong I guess... so we will see. or we could both be wrong... ; )
hmm..i lean towards the both are wrong direction =p
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
the most ironic part is that RCC does nothing that resembles the true worship of God yet people think they are..its exactly like what the pharisees did back then and got screwed by JC..again..read the bible..compare it with the teachings of the churches..idolatry..
actually Yeshua did not say that the Pharisees got it wrong entirely, He said that they kept Torah, but failed to pay more attention to the weightier matters of Torah... Yeshua also said this about the Pharisees... Matthew 5:20
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.