simplified bible
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
well..guess it will make you happy if you know earth is made in 6 literal days..i would enjoy sharing information with you freely as i would to many others..inconsistences are not in the bible but from what men said of bible..
thats why creation cannot be 6 literal days..
then the contradictions come in here. god is so powerful that he cant create in an instant? get my point dude?
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Originally posted by marcteng:
then the contradictions come in here. god is so powerful that he cant create in an instant? get my point dude?
yes yes..got your point...while we are at it..why not ask can God create something so heavy that he cannot lift it right??
again like i said..what difference does it make to create in 6 days or 6gazillion years??the point is..we are still able to debate our arse off here and now how long it take to create..we will still have nature to admire be it 6 days or 6 "days"...personally i feel its more fruitful to focus on something more fruitful but of course, im willing to keep you company to talk about 6 days.. =)
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Hi,
in my opinion, i believe the creation was done in literal 6 days.
Then the question comes, if yes, then show proof. Of course, if have rock solid proof of course early early show liao.
But my request is, could someone give me rock solid proof that the old [not young] earth theory [not law] is absolutely true? could someone give me the proof of methods used in obtaining the dates of how old fossils are absolutely true?
In discussiong about methodology and order, i first choose to believe that the Bible is true and neverchanging, and continue in reasoning and science as well. But some will believe in scientific theory to be true and neverchanging, then say that Bible is false.
I would say that, as fallen man, my understanding is yet full and my comprehension of the matter lacking. Thanks to all, i would continue in understanding it, but i will do it with the believe and faith and foundation that the Bible is the Truth.
Thanks
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
yes yes..got your point...while we are at it..why not ask can God create something so heavy that he cannot lift it right??
again like i said..what difference does it make to create in 6 days or 6gazillion years??the point is..we are still able to debate our arse off here and now how long it take to create..we will still have nature to admire be it 6 days or 6 "days"...personally i feel its more fruitful to focus on something more fruitful but of course, im willing to keep you company to talk about 6 days.. =)
yes thats the contradiction isnt it. ask god to create something he cant lift and if he can lift, he is not powerful.
how can you say its not a big difference dude. 6 days and 6 million or billion years is a huge difference. that means the creation of 6 days is a myth, proven by science, period.
I am wondering why are you defending the indefensible inconsistencies and contradictions.
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Originally posted by don1266:
Hi,
in my opinion, i believe the creation was done in literal 6 days.
Then the question comes, if yes, then show proof. Of course, if have rock solid proof of course early early show liao.
But my request is, could someone give me rock solid proof that the old [not young] earth theory [not law] is absolutely true? could someone give me the proof of methods used in obtaining the dates of how old fossils are absolutely true?
In discussiong about methodology and order, i first choose to believe that the Bible is true and neverchanging, and continue in reasoning and science as well. But some will believe in scientific theory to be true and neverchanging, then say that Bible is false.
I would say that, as fallen man, my understanding is yet full and my comprehension of the matter lacking. Thanks to all, i would continue in understanding it, but i will do it with the believe and faith and foundation that the Bible is the Truth.
Thanks
dear don..carbon dating can be off..but not pure nonsense..science is in lieu with the bible..but the bible isnt a science text book..6 literal days will contradict both the bible as with science..in fact bible first mentioned that the earth is round..and scientific laws showed how precise everything is and cannot be a by product of chance..
so therefore..look at our nature..look at the textbooks..and look in the bible..and you will see all compliement each other..just be careful of human lies..
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
dear don..carbon dating can be off..but not pure nonsense..science is in lieu with the bible..but the bible isnt a science text book..6 literal days will contradict both the bible as with science..in fact bible first mentioned that the earth is round..and scientific laws showed how precise everything is and cannot be a by product of chance..
so therefore..look at our nature..look at the textbooks..and look in the bible..and you will see all compliement each other..just be careful of human lies..
you really can amaze me with the wonderful explanations of your own.
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Originally posted by marcteng:
you really can amaze me with the wonderful explanations of your own.
the explainations of mine are not my own..if you are free..read the bible without prejudice..then you will see...
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Well, Einstein has already proved with his theories that Time is not a constant. Ie. it can slow down and speed up depending on circumstances.
Maybe one day in heaven is equivalent to a thousand years on earth, so who knows?
One can't just discredit the bible based on carbon dating, which may be flawed also. (By the way, I am not a anti-science person. I am studying in the Faculty of Science at NUS lol)
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Originally posted by icytoad:
Well, Einstein has already proved with his theories that Time is not a constant. Ie. it can slow down and speed up depending on circumstances.
Maybe one day in heaven is equivalent to a thousand years on earth, so who knows?
One can't just discredit the bible based on carbon dating, which may be flawed also. (By the way, I am not a anti-science person. I am studying in the Faculty of Science at NUS lol)
is that therelativity theory??where if you are with someone you like, time appear to move quickly than when you are with someone you dont like..time slows down....
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
the explainations of mine are not my own..if you are free..read the bible without prejudice..then you will see...
all god religions are talking about a creator ie whether one god or many god, it doesnt matter. In India alone, there are 300 plus god religions alone. every religion would surely preaches their religion is the one and only religion that is true.
It takes away human endevour. look how far mankind has progresse in leaps and bounds with science and technology. frankly speaking what has bible or god reveal other than say that god is almighty and creator of all things.
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Hi,
in my opinion, science and technologies is just one of the means that a civilisation, a culture progresses, last time we use to write mails, now we write emails so can be said as language and literiture. But what is the motivation behind all these things?
Science, in latin, is Scio, which literaly means, to know. But what motivates you to know? Is curiosity enough and sufficient to motivate [not force] you to know?
In the ancient times, people view time as a wheel, mainly known as a wheel of time. So things happen and re-happen and so on, life, death, life death and so on. But the Bible tells us in Hebrews chapter 1
2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things
and as St Augustine understands from the Bible that time is linear, and in his Book "City of God" writing that, even if the earthly rule of the empire was imperilled, it was the City of God that would ultimately triumph.
By knowing where history is heading, Christians by right, should have no excuse and strive and progress in this live, and giving all glory to God.
Some of us would detest Christians that are all about happy happy, lovey dovey, warm and cuddly and sometimes even self consumed and lived in our own small little enclove. But this is not the case, Christians are called to bring glory to God, and even to let all nations give glory to God.
Sadly, sometimes [maybe most of the time] we fail. But it shows us, on the other hand the mercy and grace of God, and His willingness to have a partnership with us humans.
I understand and accept the objective and sincere remand/comments made towards Christians. We fail at times, and needed to move on. Thank you so much.
regards,
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Originally posted by marcteng:
yes thats the contradiction isnt it. ask god to create something he cant lift and if he can lift, he is not powerful.
how can you say its not a big difference dude. 6 days and 6 million or billion years is a huge difference. that means the creation of 6 days is a myth, proven by science, period.
I am wondering why are you defending the indefensible inconsistencies and contradictions.
IMO..the thing of creating things he cant lift is just pure bull...its just twisting of words...
now the days and years thingy..time maybe a diff..huge diff i agree..but..the end result is the same..shit gets created..you get what i meant??
the creation in 6 days is bullshit as proven by science if you listen to what certain sects of christianity says...that im sure you agree...however,based on the example i gave..you cant deny it covers up pretty well...
im only defending the constant facts in the bible against the inconsistant crap of religious teachers...
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Originally posted by marcteng:
all god religions are talking about a creator ie whether one god or many god, it doesnt matter. In India alone, there are 300 plus god religions alone. every religion would surely preaches their religion is the one and only religion that is true.
It takes away human endevour. look how far mankind has progresse in leaps and bounds with science and technology. frankly speaking what has bible or god reveal other than say that god is almighty and creator of all things.
it revealed the earth is round way before anyone else discovered that..it also hmm, hinted?? that earth rotated on its own axis and around the sun..these are but some of it that i still remember..1 more..it also mentions that there are billions of stars out there in space when people are still incapable of flying..and that God named and remembers each name of the stars...
besides..not all religions says they are the true religion..and can you not say that for many, science,technology and patriotism has become a religion for them already??
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Originally posted by don1266:
Hi,
in my opinion, science and technologies is just one of the means that a civilisation, a culture progresses, last time we use to write mails, now we write emails so can be said as language and literiture. But what is the motivation behind all these things?
Science, in latin, is Scio, which literaly means, to know. But what motivates you to know? Is curiosity enough and sufficient to motivate [not force] you to know?
In the ancient times, people view time as a wheel, mainly known as a wheel of time. So things happen and re-happen and so on, life, death, life death and so on. But the Bible tells us in Hebrews chapter 1
2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things
and as St Augustine understands from the Bible that time is linear, and in his Book "City of God" writing that, even if the earthly rule of the empire was imperilled, it was the City of God that would ultimately triumph.
By knowing where history is heading, Christians by right, should have no excuse and strive and progress in this live, and giving all glory to God.
Some of us would detest Christians that are all about happy happy, lovey dovey, warm and cuddly and sometimes even self consumed and lived in our own small little enclove. But this is not the case, Christians are called to bring glory to God, and even to let all nations give glory to God.
Sadly, sometimes [maybe most of the time] we fail. But it shows us, on the other hand the mercy and grace of God, and His willingness to have a partnership with us humans.
I understand and accept the objective and sincere remand/comments made towards Christians. We fail at times, and needed to move on. Thank you so much.
regards,
pretty well said actually..
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
it revealed the earth is round way before anyone else discovered that..it also hmm, hinted?? that earth rotated on its own axis and around the sun..these are but some of it that i still remember..1 more..it also mentions that there are billions of stars out there in space when people are still incapable of flying..and that God named and remembers each name of the stars...
besides..not all religions says they are the true religion..and can you not say that for many, science,technology and patriotism has become a religion for them already??
if bible said there are 9 planets in our solar system, namely Jupiter, Pluto, Mercury etc and that there are germs and bacterias naked to the eye 2009 years ago, then I would say bible is not a story after all.
by the way definition of religion is praying and worshipping to god.
Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism are not religions.
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Originally posted by marcteng:
if bible said there are 9 planets in our solar system, namely Jupiter, Pluto, Mercury etc and that there are germs and bacterias naked to the eye 2009 years ago, then I would say bible is not a story after all.
by the way definition of religion is praying and worshipping to god.
Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism are not religions.
it does say there are billions of stars and the size of the universe..it does say earth rotate on its own axis before technology was capable to determine that..it does say the earth was round when everyone thought the earth was flat..so too did it said the earth orbit around the sun when it was believed the earthe was the centre of everything and the sun orbited around it..and it says every kind of thing was created according to its kind and species..hence that shows why evolution cant be right as the capability to adapt to changing environment is inherent...
tao,buddhism,confucianism are philosiphies...and again the paganistic chinese love to make deities out of every other thing....turning the once way of enlightenment an object of idol worship..and most chinese know not the difference nor do they care so long as it appears to benefit them..nationalism and patriotism has also become new gods now...
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
it does say there are billions of stars and the size of the universe..it does say earth rotate on its own axis before technology was capable to determine that..it does say the earth was round when everyone thought the earth was flat..so too did it said the earth orbit around the sun when it was believed the earthe was the centre of everything and the sun orbited around it..and it says every kind of thing was created according to its kind and species..hence that shows why evolution cant be right as the capability to adapt to changing environment is inherent...
tao,buddhism,confucianism are philosiphies...and again the paganistic chinese love to make deities out of every other thing....turning the once way of enlightenment an object of idol worship..and most chinese know not the difference nor do they care so long as it appears to benefit them..nationalism and patriotism has also become new gods now...
Christianity is pagan in nature so please do not term anything pagan unless you are really sure. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Christianity is pagan in nature so please do not term anything pagan unless you are really sure.christianity is paganistic i know..all thanks to the rcc..when i meant christianity..i meant the true worship of Jehovah by placing trust in Jesus being the christ..not some mumbo jumbo christmas tree, easter day bullshit..you would think i am the same as christians who didnt see??
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
christianity is paganistic i know..all thanks to the rcc..when i meant christianity..i meant the true worship of Jehovah by placing trust in Jesus being the christ..not some mumbo jumbo christmas tree, easter day bullshit..you would think i am the same as christians who didnt see??
What aspect of the Catholic church is pagan and from where did it get this so-called paganism from?
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Originally posted by Servant:
What aspect of the Catholic church is pagan and from where did it get this so-called paganism from?
Now where do we start... but I think domon did mention two already, christmas and easter, go google it... even down to the items rc use for mass etc... its worship of the sun... hmmm the list can go on and on... just type history of chirstmas and easter and go read for yourself. These two in themselves should be quite enough...
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Now where do we start... but I think domon did mention two already, christmas and easter, go google it... even down to the items rc use for mass etc... its worship of the sun... hmmm the list can go on and on... just type history of chirstmas and easter and go read for yourself. These two in themselves should be quite enough...
Last I checked, I believe Christmas is a day where Catholics celebrate the birth of our Saviour, and his resurrection on Easter. I'll be hard pressed to find where christmas trees, santa clauses and easter bunnies figure in Catholic worship. And by the way, millions of non-Catholic Christians in Singapore and round the world also religiously celebrate these two sacred days, so please don't insult them.
Catholics worship the sun?? I think this shows very clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of Catholic beliefs and practices. I don't think I've ever worshipped the sun in the Mass or in any other sacrament all my life, so please don't say that we do something when we don't. Time to discard all the fiction that you may have heard or read about Catholicism.
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Originally posted by Servant:
Last I checked, I believe Christmas is a day where Catholics celebrate the birth of our Saviour, and his resurrection on Easter. I'll be hard pressed to find where christmas trees, santa clauses and easter bunnies figure in Catholic worship. And by the way, millions of non-Catholic Christians in Singapore and round the world also religiously celebrate these two sacred days, so please don't insult them.
Catholics worship the sun?? I think this shows very clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of Catholic beliefs and practices. I don't think I've ever worshipped the sun in the Mass or in any other sacrament all my life, so please don't say that we do something when we don't. Time to discard all the fiction that you may have heard or read about Catholicism.
Yeshua was not born on christmas and He most certainly was not ressurected during easter... get YOUR facts straight... if you bothered to read your bible you would know when Yeshua was born and when He was ressurected. christmas the 25th of dec is well known to be the birth day of tammuz the sun god... and easter is associated with eoster, astarte, ashera.... do you remember what Yahweh said to do with ashera poles and the like? Yet the church brings them wholesale in...
These two supposedly sacred days are really pagan festivals which are adopted by the rcc under the leadership of pope gregory. I challenge you to ask how many christians have christmas trees in their homes and how many give easter eggs during easter...
Do you have sun rise service during easter? Do you not worship on SUNday...during mass...don't the rcc use what is called a monstrance/ostensorium, have a look at what it looks like... even the rcc admits that this is a sunburst...
"During the baroque period, it took on a rayed form of a sun-monstrance with a circular window surrounded by a silver or gold frame with rays."
Source: The Dictionary of the Liturgy by Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., published and copyrighted © 1989 by Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, ISBN 0-89942-273-X, page 436.
In fact, according to the
1913 edition of the
Catholic Encyclopedia-The most appropriate form (for the monstrance) is that of the sun emitting its rays to all sides (Instructio Clement., 5).
The priest sometimes holds up the sunburst monstrance with the host encased for the congregation to adore and venerate. Virtually any time the monstrance, a pagan sun symbol, is viewed by the congregation, they kneel in submission. A catholic cannot walk past this sun symbol without acknowledging it by kneeling and or making the sign of the cross with their hands.
Even st peters square in the vatican city pays hommage to the sun have a look at it from an aerial view... what do you see? suns rays emanating from a central point and what is worse, there is an obelisk which is well known as the phallic symbol of the pagan nimrod
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Yeshua was not born on christmas and He most certainly was not ressurected during easter... get YOUR facts straight... if you bothered to read your bible you would know when Yeshua was born and when He was ressurected. christmas the 25th of dec is well known to be the birth day of tammuz the sun god... and easter is associated with eoster, astarte, ashera.... do you remember what Yahweh said to do with ashera poles and the like? Yet the church brings them wholesale in...
These two supposedly sacred days are really pagan festivals which are adopted by the rcc under the leadership of pope gregory. I challenge you to ask how many christians have christmas trees in their homes and how many give easter eggs during easter...
Do you have sun rise service during easter? Do you not worship on SUNday...during mass...don't the rcc use what is called a monstrance/ostensorium, have a look at what it looks like... even the rcc admits that this is a sunburst...
Source: The Dictionary of the Liturgy by Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., published and copyrighted © 1989 by Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, ISBN 0-89942-273-X, page 436.
In fact, according to the
1913 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia-The most appropriate form (for the monstrance) is that of the sun emitting its rays to all sides (Instructio Clement., 5).
The priest sometimes holds up the sunburst monstrance with the host encased for the congregation to adore and venerate. Virtually any time the monstrance, a pagan sun symbol, is viewed by the congregation, they kneel in submission. A catholic cannot walk past this sun symbol without acknowledging it by kneeling and or making the sign of the cross with their hands.
Even st peters square in the vatican city pays hommage to the sun have a look at it from an aerial view... what do you see? suns rays emanating from a central point and what is worse, there is an obelisk which is well known as the phallic symbol of the pagan nimrod
Thu church has brought the sun gods wholesale in? Funny thing is that I've never heard of them before. So if 25th Dec happens to coincide with Hitler's birthday, do we worship Hitler? Yes, the actual birthday and resurrection days of Jesus may not be exactly on Christmas and Easter Days itself, but so what? Isn't it more important to remember and celebrate the days for what they signify than whether it actually happened historically on that day?
Yes, I'll proudly say that I have a Christmas tree at home and I give Easter eggs. Am I replacing Jesus Christ with the tree and the eggs? I give Christmas presents and Easter eggs to my loved ones because I want to without any religious significance. They experience peace, love and joy as a result, what's wrong with this? And yes, we worship on Sunday for the simple reason that God rested on the 7th day after the creation of the world and asked us to keep that day holy. No coincidence also that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose on the 3rd day which is now called Sunday, or Easter Sunday. And no, our biggest Easter service is the Easter vigil mass the night before Easter morning.
The entire point about the monstrance is the Eucharist within that it contains, not about the monstrance itself. The imagery of light is used to decorate it as Jesus himself said that He is the light of the world. During the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Catholics focus on the consecrated bread (which by the way has on a few occassions miraculously turned into actual human flesh and kept till today, praise the Lord), not on the decorative sun rays.
I'm not sure if you've realised by now that your bizzare, unsubstantiated and offensive attacks on the Catholic faith (in this post and others) speak volumes about the kind of religion that you subscribe to. One thing you have helped me confirm is that Catholics will continue to endure these relentless attacks as Jesus himself warned his church that we will be persecuted if we follow Him, just as he was persecuted by his enemies. A word of advice - ask Catholics for what Catholics believe, don't ask an anti-Catholic for what Catholics believe as you will end up committing the sin of bearing false witness against your neighbour.
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Originally posted by Servant: Yes, I'll proudly say that I have a Christmas tree at home and I give Easter eggs. Am I replacing Jesus Christ with the tree and the eggs? I give Christmas presents and Easter eggs to my loved ones because I want to without any religious significance. They experience peace, love and joy as a result, what's wrong with this?
Please go and read Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah) chapter 10. Do you not know the origins of chirstmas??
The Catholic Encyclopedia tells us: "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts;
Historians acknowledge that the earliest December 25 celebration of Christ’s birth "took place at Rome about the middle of the fourth century… The first mention of a Nativity feast on December 25 is found in a Roman document known as the Philocalian Calendar, dating from the year 354 [ad]… From Rome, Christmas spread throughout the West, with the conversion of the barbarians" (Miles, pp. 20–21). The Bible, of course, does not mention the date of Jesus’ birth. "The real reason for the choice of the day [December 25] most probably was, that upon it fell the pagan festival" that celebrated the rebirth of the sun (ibid., p. 23).
Hoping to encourage pagans to embrace the Roman Catholic faith, clerics sought to adapt pagan customs into their religion by giving them new names. Pope Gregory I, writing in 601ad, urged Augustine of Canterbury to allow the pagan Anglo-Saxons to retain the outward forms of their old festivals, but to practice them with a new meaning (Miles, p. 179). As one author concludes, reflecting on the Pope’s letter, "We see here very plainly the mind of the ecclesiastical compromiser" (ibid.).Catholic historian Will Durant acknowledged this plainly when he wrote, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it… the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the Mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the idea of the Trinity… the adoration of the Mother and Child, and the mystic theosophy that made Neoplatonism and Gnosticism and obscured the Christian creed… From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother… Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient pagan world" (Caesar and Christ, p. 595).
"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god. Easter is the worship of Ishtar the fertility goddess...it has and will never have anything to do with the ressurection of Yeshua. Does the bible tell you to celebrate easter??
When Aaron made the golden calf for the Israelites at Mount Sinai, he had still proclaimed the celebration that attended its inauguration the “feast of the Lord.” (Exodus 32:5). Yet, this did not prevent the wrath of God from falling upon them. This is exactly what the church is doing...
Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29–32).Yet the church has not obeyed...
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Originally posted by Servant:
The entire point about the monstrance is the Eucharist within that it contains, not about the monstrance itself. The imagery of light is used to decorate it as Jesus himself said that He is the light of the world. During the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Catholics focus on the consecrated bread (which by the way has on a few occassions miraculously turned into actual human flesh and kept till today, praise the Lord), not on the decorative sun rays.
the round wafer of bread itself is also a sun symbol, that imagery that you so speak of is a copy of all things which are linked to pagan sun worship. the eucharist turns into real flesh?... ie rcs are cannibals? Yeshua is risen and seated at the right hand of Yahweh, so by saying that the eucharist is actually the flesh of Yeshua is to say that He left some part of Himself here? Now who is the absurd one...