Originally posted by breytonhartge:Actually there is go to the Hebrew Tenakh. And I believe that both Judas and Yochanan would have read from the same text.
friend, this will never end... as i've said; the interpretation may mean something to you but another to another person.
are you saying the intrepretation of this book is the 100% truth? is there any loopholes? if there isn't, why is this "new" finding not published openly that there is no purgatory? i don't wish to debate any longer for this will really never end. i believe that there is a purgatory because i was taught so in the Catholic way. if you want me to change my opinion, it will take more than text from an ancient book.
put it this way, my Buddhist friend believes in reincarnation but i don't, do i have to fight with him over this issue everytime we meet? no for there is no conclusion. you believe that we will be sleeping after death, fine. i accept your beliefs but that doesn't mean i believe in it.
frankly, i rather agree to disagree on this issue about life after death
Originally posted by breytonhartge:The bible says that if we seek we will find, so if you are really seeking, then maybe one day you will find, like Shaul (Paul) said be like the bereans who search the scripture to prove that what is being taught is true. So will you search the scriptures to back up what your religion says is true?
this sounds more like the movie; the Da Vinci Code and seriously unless i'm loaded with money to travel to Egypt and Israel to search for "evidence" for the basis of my religion, i rather not. i'm poor and unless someone is sponsoring, i don't think i can ever afford the cost.
anyway why will i go searching first? what will i accomplish? finding out the dark secrets the Church has been hiding since the early centuries? er... that Jesus Christ have a daughter with Mary of Madgalene? sigh... i'm more worried now about how to clear my phone bills than the truth behind the bible.
Originally posted by novelltie:this sounds more like the movie; the Da Vinci Code and seriously unless i'm loaded with money to travel to Egypt and Israel to search for "evidence" for the basis of my religion, i rather not. i'm poor and unless someone is sponsoring, i don't think i can ever afford the cost.
anyway why will i go searching first? what will i accomplish? finding out the dark secrets the Church has been hiding since the early centuries? er... that Jesus Christ have a daughter with Mary of Madgalene? sigh... i'm more worried now about how to clear my phone bills than the truth behind the bible.
Finding out about the dark secrets the church has been hiding since the early centuries is a good start. All I am asking is for you to compare what you are taught to what is actually said in the bible.
Originally posted by novelltie:friend, this will never end... as i've said; the interpretation may mean something to you but another to another person.
are you saying the intrepretation of this book is the 100% truth? is there any loopholes? if there isn't, why is this "new" finding not published openly that there is no purgatory? i don't wish to debate any longer for this will really never end. i believe that there is a purgatory because i was taught so in the Catholic way. if you want me to change my opinion, it will take more than text from an ancient book.
put it this way, my Buddhist friend believes in reincarnation but i don't, do i have to fight with him over this issue everytime we meet? no for there is no conclusion. you believe that we will be sleeping after death, fine. i accept your beliefs but that doesn't mean i believe in it.
frankly, i rather agree to disagree on this issue about life after death
just like agnostist deny the existence of god. christians catholic and muslims believe doesnt mean they believe there is a god. who knows, the concept of god is created by men, even the holy books are written by man.
Originally posted by novelltie:friend, this will never end... as i've said; the interpretation may mean something to you but another to another person.
are you saying the intrepretation of this book is the 100% truth? is there any loopholes? if there isn't, why is this "new" finding not published openly that there is no purgatory? i don't wish to debate any longer for this will really never end. i believe that there is a purgatory because i was taught so in the Catholic way. if you want me to change my opinion, it will take more than text from an ancient book.
put it this way, my Buddhist friend believes in reincarnation but i don't, do i have to fight with him over this issue everytime we meet? no for there is no conclusion. you believe that we will be sleeping after death, fine. i accept your beliefs but that doesn't mean i believe in it.
frankly, i rather agree to disagree on this issue about life after death
Yes some translations have been biased and been wrong only because of a lack of understanding of the context and the way of thinking. a greek hellenistic mindset trying to interpret a hebraic mindset would find a lot of conflicting ideas. Just because you were taught in the catholic way does not make it automatically right, I was brought up a taoist, but you would not see me a mile near a taoist temple. That ancient book existied centuries earlier than your catholic church.
isnt it like 4.32am now?
Originally posted by laurence82:isnt it like 4.32am now?
working...lah... have presentation tomorrow. currently detailing bathrooms.
as far as i know, u werent in bathroom line...
-_-!
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Yes some translations have been biased and been wrong only because of a lack of understanding of the context and the way of thinking. a greek hellenistic mindset trying to interpret a hebraic mindset would find a lot of conflicting ideas. Just because you were taught in the catholic way does not make it automatically right, I was brought up a taoist, but you would not see me a mile near a taoist temple. That ancient book existied centuries earlier than your catholic church.
i never said we were 100% right, that's why in my earlier posts i said to all, don't bother too much about what Christians say about other religions or beliefs. live your life freely and to any religion you prefer. the TS was upset that some parents were forcing their child to church... some contested that Christians were too much, the Christians replied condemning all other religion and non believers are condemn to hell.
i step in and say don't bother too much about what Christians say, they have their beliefs, you have your own... as a fellow Christian, i sometimes feel that we are a little too forceful when trying to convince others which i believe is backlashing the whole Christians' faculty. i suggested they don't take us too seriously when we "condemn" them for it is useless if opinions and beliefs differ.
why? cos' i know that we do not have all the facts and answers to questions this world pose to us.
Originally posted by laurence82:as far as i know, u werent in bathroom line...
-_-!
architect mah... part of a home renovation...
Originally posted by breytonhartge:architect mah... part of a home renovation...
you really architect? how much u earn lol? 5k at least rite?
Originally posted by marcteng:you really architect? how much u earn lol? 5k at least rite?
me yes. I am an architect. rather not say how much I earn.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:me yes. I am an architect. rather not say how much I earn.
can ask whats the starting pay for architect? is it true that once you finished architecture degree at NUS, you do drafts only. must study masters than can do architecture? pls explain tks
Originally posted by marcteng:can ask whats the starting pay for architect? is it true that once you finished architecture degree at NUS, you do drafts only. must study masters than can do architecture? pls explain tks
errr. I am one of those singaporeans that have left the country... I really would not know but typically when I graduated, I did a lot of drafting and presentation work for my first boss, did not get to do any design work will about 1.5 years into working? I was only really allowed to do design work after getting registered, this was after 2.5 years. Even then only smaller projects. I currently have my own firm and work for myself. The way the degree course here goes, you will get a masters when you graduate. But seriously, unless you want to become an academic, its really not necessary, I have been working for quite a few years already.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:errr. I am one of those singaporeans that have left the country... I really would not know but typically when I graduated, I did a lot of drafting and presentation work for my first boss, did not get to do any design work will about 1.5 years into working? I was only really allowed to do design work after getting registered, this was after 2.5 years. Even then only smaller projects. I currently have my own firm and work for myself. The way the degree course here goes, you will get a masters when you graduate. But seriously, unless you want to become an academic, its really not necessary, I have been working for quite a few years already.
so u migrate to US I assume? u study architecture in NUS I suppose? why u want to leave sg? greener pasture elsewhere I reckon?
Originally posted by marcteng:so u migrate to US I assume? u study architecture in NUS I suppose? why u want to leave sg? greener pasture elsewhere I reckon?
nah did not go to the us... and did not study at NUS either... architecture was not my first degree... I did not set out to leave Sg initially but I guess that is the way things just worked out.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:nah did not go to the us... and did not study at NUS either... architecture was not my first degree... I did not set out to leave Sg initially but I guess that is the way things just worked out.
oh where r u now?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:and for once unker CE and I are on the same page... same page.. keke
yeah... page 5...
and now page 12.
Originally posted by marcteng:so u migrate to US I assume? u study architecture in NUS I suppose? why u want to leave sg? greener pasture elsewhere I reckon?
you don't disturb brey ok.....! he is a very rich man! ha ha
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
you don't disturb brey ok.....! he is a very rich man! ha ha
very funny... eh.. same page twice... what a coincidence... hehe... how are you unker?
bro brey...sometimes i feel very puzzled after seeing a short debate between u & nove...
i gave u a simple answer of my version with regards to christianity, nove gave u lengthy answers via quotes from the bible. still u are not satisfy. so i presume the problem here doesn't lie with our answers. no offence, but u gave me a perception dat u are jus stubbornly refusing to accept answers dat are spiritually related to God.
but i do take my hats off u for 1 thing is dat ur arguments are so much more sensible & matured.
Originally posted by novelltie:i mean, in a Christian point of view; everything is created by God and everything belongs to Him... including all religions and all races of men and women...
so, indirectly... just guessing and jumping into conclusion plus assuming (making an ass of me and you) God is behind Taoism, Buddhism and Islam, won't a Taoist priest be under His care and also liable to enter Heaven?
so God is behind all religions??so he is know as this and that in this religion while he is known as so and so in that religion so that everyone in different religion starts hating each other and killing each other due to the confusion??God is not a god of confusion..all races of men and women do belong to him whom He bought back with His son's death..
so after indirectly making an ass out...in your example of a taoist priest,should that guy did good and had certain qualities that moves God then of course he will be given the chance to know God and make a choice to serve his tao or God..
Originally posted by xalkyrie:the dead cannot make that choice anymore. if you read on the parable of lazarus and the rich man, the rich man didn't repent and it's impossible to cross over.
this is something i read on psalm 88.
Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Do those who are dead rise up and praise you?
SelahIs your love declared in the grave,
your faithfulness in Destruction?Are your wonders known in the place of darkness,
or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion? psalm 88:10-12
nice..you said dead cant make choice again cuz hes dead..now that clearly shows immortality of the soul is a false doctrine..for if the soul is immortal,it can make decisions again..and even repent..
Originally posted by novelltie:http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
this is our beliefs and our interpretation of the bible which may not coincide with the rest of the Christians thus we are "divided".
are you going to contest about Mother Mary too? Are you going to contest about the choirs of angels and the authority of St. Michael the Archangel, we call the Prince of Heaven? are you going to contest the truth about saints from St. Paul to St. Octavius? do you want to contest the power of the Pope?
if you wish, then i am in no position to assist you for i'm not qualified to debate on these issues.
brey made much more valid points than the church..mother mary isnt sinless though she was chosen by God to give birth to a spotless perfect Jesus..
the authority of Michael is given by God..for he is the only one who is like God..saints this and that..well, only comparable at most to other saints in other religions..
the power of the pope is vested by harloting with the political powers of nations.Jesus clearly said to have no part of this world..yet the church was behind many ungodly wars and bloodshed..i and i myself contest the false power of the pope..
Originally posted by novelltie:this sounds more like the movie; the Da Vinci Code and seriously unless i'm loaded with money to travel to Egypt and Israel to search for "evidence" for the basis of my religion, i rather not. i'm poor and unless someone is sponsoring, i don't think i can ever afford the cost.
anyway why will i go searching first? what will i accomplish? finding out the dark secrets the Church has been hiding since the early centuries? er... that Jesus Christ have a daughter with Mary of Madgalene? sigh... i'm more worried now about how to clear my phone bills than the truth behind the bible.
hmm..while its true hp bills are important..but then, does it not pain you that someone or something with so much power proclaiming they represent God are the very same ones who insults Him and sides with the enemy?would you not wanna know the truth about the God you claim you love??