i mean, in a Christian point of view; everything is created by God and everything belongs to Him... including all religions and all races of men and women...
so, indirectly... just guessing and jumping into conclusion plus assuming (making an ass of me and you) God is behind Taoism, Buddhism and Islam, won't a Taoist priest be under His care and also liable to enter Heaven?
Originally posted by novelltie:a Buddhist friend once gave me something to ponder...
how do you know if God was not the creator behind Buddhism? how do you know if the reason behind all religions is actually a game between God and Satan?
i have no answer... but when you queried about why God would want the priest of another god to enter salvation, this question came to my mind.
i'm not trying to pick a fight or argue back; just something that flashed into my mind when i read your post.
Very simple because buddhism is not what is written in the bible. Yahweh is not a G_d of confusion and He is not a G_d of contradiction, for if He did He would not be clear about who He is and what He is about. Something else for you to ponder then.
The point you make about religions is almost on the mark, but its not a game that Hashem would play, but one hasatan would play with us mortals. G_d does not play games.
Originally posted by novelltie:maybe i am wrong, maybe it's just my perception... maybe i'm just being silly but i remembered i was told that sinful man can still enter the gates of Heaven if he repents at the last minute or second.
we have this thing call last rites for dying men and women... it is the last chance for them to reconcile with God before they breath their last. it was believed or rather i believed that a man may be sinful and may be notorious during the years of his life but at the end, before the end he confessed to God during the last rites that he was a great sinner and he feels deep remorse for the sins he committed. i also remember if he declare that he believe that God is the Almighty and he pray for salvation earnestly, he will receive grace and he shall be allowed to enter the gates of St. Peter.
or if Heaven does not allow immediate entry, there is a place call Purgatory where souls are being purified before entering Heaven... so in lame man's term; one can still enter the gates of Heaven if one is truly repenten of his sins...
this is purely my personal opinion.
the dead cannot make that choice anymore. if you read on the parable of lazarus and the rich man, the rich man didn't repent and it's impossible to cross over.
this is something i read on psalm 88.
Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Do those who are dead rise up and praise you?
Selah
Is your love declared in the grave,
your faithfulness in Destruction?
Are your wonders known in the place of darkness,
or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion? psalm 88:10-12
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then follow Him and all His ways. Understand who your G_d is and what He requires from you.
If all good men go to heaven regardless of religion, then we need a definiton of what is good in the sight of Yahweh. If you don't have that definition, then you are just aiming at a moving target and Yahweh is not that wishy washy. He is clear and precise as to what He wants from you and He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
all good men and sinful men who repented can go to heaven so... in that aspect; what definition do you need?
the Lord gave us the Law that governs us today... you shall not steal, you shall not kill, you shall not commit fraud and blah blah...
if you live within the law, then you are half way there... the next part is are you living morally as the law does not cover that aspect eg. adultery
then we should look if we live a life worthy of Christ. if we show love and compassion for a fellow neighbour, if we assist those in need... if we have good character.
i believe, in my opinion if you fulfill all those 3 aspects, you should be liable for a one way ticket to Heaven. again it's my opinion.
Originally posted by novelltie:i mean, in a Christian point of view; everything is created by God and everything belongs to Him... including all religions and all races of men and women...
so, indirectly... just guessing and jumping into conclusion plus assuming (making an ass of me and you) God is behind Taoism, Buddhism and Islam, won't a Taoist priest be under His care and also liable to enter Heaven?
so then why do you believe? why choose christianity over all other religions? how then do you explain this:
I am the LORD your G_d, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Originally posted by xalkyrie:the dead cannot make that choice anymore. if you read on the parable of lazarus and the rich man, the rich man didn't repent and it's impossible to cross over.
this is something i read on psalm 88.
Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Do those who are dead rise up and praise you?
SelahIs your love declared in the grave,
your faithfulness in Destruction?Are your wonders known in the place of darkness,
or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion? psalm 88:10-12
that's why we Catholics pray the Rosary... for Mother Mary told us through Mother Theresea that when we pray for the souls in purgatory, their burden might be lighter and they might enter Heaven earlier...
http://catholicism.about.com/od/prayersforthedead/Prayers_for_the_Faithful_Departed.htm
we were taught that the dead does not have the ability to choose anymore so we are asked to pray for them in purgatory... and also, make that choice while we still can on earth.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:So He does not exist elsewhere?
It does matter from your pov, because if a good person goes to heaven and a bad person goes to "hell" then the definition of who is good is important. So what is that definition?
Mark 10:18
So Yeshua said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, G_d.Micah 6: 8
He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the ADONAI require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your G_d?So then the question is how do you walk humbly with your G_d?
Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. luke 9:23-24
this is a step on walking humbly with God.
Originally posted by novelltie:all good men and sinful men who repented can go to heaven so... in that aspect; what definition do you need?
the Lord gave us the Law that governs us today... you shall not steal, you shall not kill, you shall not commit fraud and blah blah...
if you live within the law, then you are half way there... the next part is are you living morally as the law does not cover that aspect eg. adultery
then we should look if we live a life worthy of Christ. if we show love and compassion for a fellow neighbour, if we assist those in need... if we have good character.
i believe, in my opinion if you fulfill all those 3 aspects, you should be liable for a one way ticket to Heaven. again it's my opinion.
What then does it mean to repent? What are you repenting from?
So again I ask you what is the law? What are His commandments?
Err.. are you sure that the moral aspects of the law do not cover adultery? I believe that it is the seventh mitzvot given to us by Elohim.
What is the most important aspect of the way Yeshua lived?
Again I ask, where does it say in the bible that we are going to heaven?
Originally posted by novelltie:that's why we Catholics pray the Rosary... for Mother Mary told us through Mother Theresea that when we pray for the souls in purgatory, their burden might be lighter and they might enter Heaven earlier...
http://catholicism.about.com/od/prayersforthedead/Prayers_for_the_Faithful_Departed.htm
we were taught that the dead does not have the ability to choose anymore so we are asked to pray for them in purgatory... and also, make that choice while we still can on earth.
where is this ever mentioned in the bible? the bible clearly states that when one dies, you are sleeping in your grave until the day of judgement.
Originally posted by xalkyrie:Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. luke 9:23-24
this is a step on walking humbly with God.
No qualms with that bit.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:so then why do you believe? why choose christianity over all other religions? how then do you explain this:
I am the LORD your G_d, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
my reason of choosing Christianity is simple; i was born in a Catholic family and the Lord has shown His presence to me... i mean not literally but by the acts of this world. He has showed me compassion through the works of others and i sincerely believes His existence, again i quote; my opinion.
my personal opinion of "other gods" defined as idols worshipped by the people of Israel cos' Israel was God's designated land since the times of Abraham and Moses. meaning He was there since Israel was furtile with men or rather, He was the founding God, the first when the people know how to survive. He mentored them and taught them life... so since He was first, how could there be other gods in the Israelis' eyes. the Lord was angry cos' He has shown himself to the people yet they decided to pray to idols later on down the centuries.
comparing to those born in the Buddhist family. Buddha is their first official god and there shouldn't be any other gods...
likewise, if i'm the father of my child... i will be pretty angry if my child calls another one father...
may not sound very convincing, i know... but again, it's my opinion.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:where is this ever mentioned in the bible? the bible clearly states that when one dies, you are sleeping in your grave until the day of judgement.
now; there are many definitions for that "dead" beliefs...
we Catholics believe that you aren't sleeping so that ends the conflict... i mean it's your opinion and i'm cool if you don't believe mine...
there isn't anything to argue since your opinions and mine differ.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:No qualms with that bit.
Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself (self sacrifice) and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, (those who are selfish) but whoever loses his life (willing to sacrifice) for me (me: can be defined as fellow human beings) will save it.
for the Lord said, "if you feed the man that sits outside your house, you are feeding me. if you are generous to the poor, you are being generous to me but if you are hurting the orphans, you are akin to hurting me.
Originally posted by novelltie:now; there are many definitions for that "dead" beliefs...
we Catholics believe that you aren't sleeping so that ends the conflict... i mean it's your opinion and i'm cool if you don't believe mine...
there isn't anything to argue since your opinions and mine differ.
its not a point of what you believe or not, but its a point of what is said in the bible. Unless you don't follow that book?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:its not a point of what you believe or not, but its a point of what is said in the bible. Unless you don't follow that book?
if you read the link; we Roman Catholics believe that Prayer for the dead is one of the greatest acts of charity we can perform. Our prayers help them during their time in Purgatory, so that they can enter more quickly into the fullness of heaven. These prayers are especially suited for offering a novena on behalf of the dead, or for praying during those seasons of the year (November, in the Western Church; Lent, in the Eastern Church) designated by the Church as times of fervent prayer for the faithful departed.
this is our Roman Catholic's interpretation; are you contesting it now?
Originally posted by novelltie:my reason of choosing Christianity is simple; i was born in a Catholic family and the Lord has shown His presence to me... i mean not literally but by the acts of this world. He has showed me compassion through the works of others and i sincerely believes His existence, again i quote; my opinion.
my personal opinion of "other gods" defined as idols worshipped by the people of Israel cos' Israel was God's designated land since the times of Abraham and Moses. meaning He was there since Israel was furtile with men or rather, He was the founding God, the first when the people know how to survive. He mentored them and taught them life... so since He was first, how could there be other gods in the Israelis' eyes. the Lord was angry cos' He has shown himself to the people yet they decided to pray to idols later on down the centuries.
comparing to those born in the Buddhist family. Buddha is their first official god and there shouldn't be any other gods...
likewise, if i'm the father of my child... i will be pretty angry if my child calls another one father...
may not sound very convincing, i know... but again, it's my opinion.
So then how do you think Yahweh would view buddah? so then the question is why would He accept a buddhist monk? You have to be consistent. The way you put things your god is a very confused one. The moment you become a believer, you believe in the G_d of Israel, the G_d of Avraham, Yitzak and Yakov. What would your G_d say about all these other religions? Its seems very much that you are toeing the line and want to have a foot in both camps. You are either for your G_d or you are not.
What do you mean exactly by founding G_d? He still is G_d.
Originally posted by novelltie:if you read the link; we Roman Catholics believe that Prayer for the dead is one of the greatest acts of charity we can perform. Our prayers help them during their time in Purgatory, so that they can enter more quickly into the fullness of heaven. These prayers are especially suited for offering a novena on behalf of the dead, or for praying during those seasons of the year (November, in the Western Church; Lent, in the Eastern Church) designated by the Church as times of fervent prayer for the faithful departed.
this is our Roman Catholic's interpretation; are you contesting it now?
I ask again please support this with a valid biblical verse.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
this is our beliefs and our interpretation of the bible which may not coincide with the rest of the Christians thus we are "divided".
are you going to contest about Mother Mary too? Are you going to contest about the choirs of angels and the authority of St. Michael the Archangel, we call the Prince of Heaven? are you going to contest the truth about saints from St. Paul to St. Octavius? do you want to contest the power of the Pope?
if you wish, then i am in no position to assist you for i'm not qualified to debate on these issues.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:So then how do you think Yahweh would view buddah? so then the question is why would He accept a buddhist monk? You have to be consistent. The way you put things your god is a very confused one. The moment you become a believer, you believe in the G_d of Israel, the G_d of Avraham, Yitzak and Yakov. What would your G_d say about all these other religions? Its seems very much that you are toeing the line and want to have a foot in both camps. You are either for your G_d or you are not.
What do you mean exactly by founding G_d? He still is G_d.
i have no answer about God's opinion about Buddha, for He is God and i'm mortal... regarding Buddha, as i've said it just now, i'm not arguing nor contesting just that a thought came to my mind of this question a Buddhist posed to me what if God was behind all these other religions... you have been forgetting, again these are my opinions and opinions require no proof for we are not in the court of law, just a debate on beliefs.
if i say i believe in spirits, must i show you a spirit before you believe me?
Originally posted by novelltie:now; there are many definitions for that "dead" beliefs...
we Catholics believe that you aren't sleeping so that ends the conflict... i mean it's your opinion and i'm cool if you don't believe mine...
there isn't anything to argue since your opinions and mine differ.
what your religion believes is in contradiction to the bible so how? What prevails? We are not talking about religion here, we are talking about what is in the bible, which is the basis of your faith.
Originally posted by novelltie:http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
this is our beliefs and our interpretation of the bible which may not coincide with the rest of the Christians thus we are "divided".
are you going to contest about Mother Mary too? Are you going to contest about the choirs of angels and the authority of St. Michael the Archangel, we call the Prince of Heaven? are you going to contest the truth about saints from St. Paul to St. Octavius? do you want to contest the power of the Pope?
if you wish, then i am in no position to assist you for i'm not qualified to debate on these issues.
I do not prescribe to the system of christianity or to the catholic way of thinking... but what I am discussing with you is what is in the bible.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:what your religion believes is in contradiction to the bible so how? What prevails? We are not talking about religion here, we are talking about what is in the bible, which is the basis of your faith.
how are we Catholics' beliefs contradict the bible? friend, you are now questioning the authencity of a religion when no one in this world can say their definition of any phrase or any parable in the bible is 100% true and accurate. only God can...
thus the Church is divided into different dominations. i mean if you are saying the Catholics beliefs are wrong, then please bring this up to the pope or another church's pastor. they will frankly not pursue the matter in open debate for no one and i dare to say no one has the courage to tell the pope in his face or any priest that our Catholic's definition of the bible is flawed.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:I do not prescribe to the system of christianity or to the catholic way of thinking... but what I am discussing with you is what is in the bible.
every phrase of the bible was debated by scholars centuries ago. some have their take on certain issues, some have different opinions thus we again have many versions of the bible.
from King James' version to New Living Translation to the Catholic's version of The Good News Bible...
who has the 100% accurate translation and definition, no one is certain. recently there were claims that Judas has a bible too and John the Baptist has another version too... who then has the accurate one?
Originally posted by novelltie:every phrase of the bible was debated by scholars centuries ago. some have their take on certain issues, some have different opinions thus we again have many versions of the bible.
from King James' version to New Living Translation to the Catholic's version of The Good News Bible...
who has the 100% accurate translation and definition, no one is certain. recently there were claims that Judas has a bible too and John the Baptist has another version too... who then has the accurate one?
Actually there is go to the Hebrew Tenakh. And I believe that both Judas and Yochanan would have read from the same text.
Originally posted by novelltie:how are we Catholics' beliefs contradict the bible? friend, you are now questioning the authencity of a religion when no one in this world can say their definition of any phrase or any parable in the bible is 100% true and accurate. only God can...
thus the Church is divided into different dominations. i mean if you are saying the Catholics beliefs are wrong, then please bring this up to the pope or another church's pastor. they will frankly not pursue the matter in open debate for no one and i dare to say no one has the courage to tell the pope in his face or any priest that our Catholic's definition of the bible is flawed.
The bible says that if we seek we will find, so if you are really seeking, then maybe one day you will find, like Shaul (Paul) said be like the bereans who search the scripture to prove that what is being taught is true. So will you search the scriptures to back up what your religion says is true?