Christian parents forcing their children to go church
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
I think you missed the question. What does the bible say about walking humbly with Him? Don't be too quick to answer that one, go have a good read of the book from cover to cover and give me an answer when you know.
It's ok bro. i hav read the bible but maybe i dun explain so well. but perhaps u can share with me wat u know abt walking humbly with Him?
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Originally posted by novelltie:
or if Heaven does not allow immediate entry, there is a place call Purgatory where souls are being purified before entering Heaven... so in lame man's term; one can still enter the gates of Heaven if one is truly repenten of his sins...
this is purely my personal opinion.
So what is the point of trying to be righteous in this life? I will just try in the next one by squeezing into heaven by the skin of my teeth... after all I do have time in purgatory right?
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Originally posted by novelltie:
anything against the 10 commandments?
could you clarify the question? thanks.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Would you take the risk? We are not Yahweh, and we cannot say yes or no either way. And do you seriously think there is a heaven to go to? What is heaven? What does the bible say about going to heaven? Another question for you, define sin.
i'm not asking all of us to live a life of sin before the last moment of repentence. what i'm saying is i believe there is still salvation for men who committed grave sins during their years of living.
Heaven is where God lives? where he has it prepared for his children to live with him after their lives on earth? Lord Jesus said, "those who believed in me shall have eternal life".
sins like adultery, falsely accusing a fellow men and murder... these are the major sins but the Lord has one new one before he left us for Heaven, "Love one another as I've love you." Because Lord Jesus loves us so much, He came down to earth to suffer and die to take away the sins of the world, his sacrifice for the love of us is what he desires us Christians to have... to love one another as to sacrifice ourselves in time of need.
for example; if we saw a child holding a deadly snake, we ought to risk our lives and save the boy from the snake. if we see an old lady having problems with her groceries, we should sacrifice our time to assist her to carry her load or even open the door for her if the opportunity arises. it is all about loving one another as human beings that the Lord wants to instill in all of us. cos' when you love one another, you will not commit sins against them like if you love your mother, will you want to hurt her intentionally like accusing her falsely? will you want to hurt your brother by having adultery with your sister in law?
love is what God is teaching.
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Originally posted by novelltie:
that's life... in work place, people can stab you so they can gain the promotion. in school, people refuse to "enlighten" you in the subject so they can be on director's list... these people exist everywhere, even animals do that in nature... a king cobra will eat another snake so it can survive and grow bigger and badder... it is human nature (listen to Michael Jackson's Human Nature and you'll understand) to win.
if it's not worth fighting for; don't... let them win if it so matters to them. fight for your rights only if it's worth fighting for.
Yup will do. dun wanna waste my time fighting something worthless.
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oops.. =X
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
So what is the point of trying to be righteous in this life? I will just try in the next one by squeezing into heaven by the skin of my teeth... after all I do have time in purgatory right?
yes, you can try... i'm not stopping you for i'm not the judge end of the day. i'm can't stop you from committing crimes. i can't say to God, "hey, this guy's bad for the majority of his life yet why do i see him in Heaven?"
there is a story in the bible (Matthew 20; 1:16)a parable told by Jesus;
there was a land owner whose vinefield has yielded and it's time for harvest. he set out to the market place in the early morning search for some men to assist in the harvesting and at the corner, he saw 3 men. he said, "work for me in my fields till the end of the day and i'll pay you 5 denarius.
at noon, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
at mid noon, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
at about 5 pm, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
so the harvesting end about 7 pm... and those who started work early expected to get paid more since they worked longer hours than those who started at 5 pm but the land owner paid all of them the same wage... of course those who started the earliest complained viciously...
the land owner replied, "son, i did not cheat you. i paid you what i've promised; 5 denarius. don't i have the right to do as i wish with my own money? or are you jealous because i'm generous?"
the Lord God is generous, who am i to complain if He wishes to take you home with Him at the end of the day?
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Originally posted by novelltie:
i'm not asking all of us to live a life of sin before the last moment of repentence. what i'm saying is i believe there is still salvation for men who committed grave sins during their years of living.
Heaven is where God lives? where he has it prepared for his children to live with him after their lives on earth? Lord Jesus said, "those who believed in me shall have eternal life".
sins like adultery, falsely accusing a fellow men and murder... these are the major sins but the Lord has one new one before he left us for Heaven, "Love one another as I've love you." Because Lord Jesus loves us so much, He came down to earth to suffer and die to take away the sins of the world, his sacrifice for the love of us is what he desires us Christians to have... to love one another as to sacrifice ourselves in time of need.
for example; if we saw a child holding a deadly snake, we ought to risk our lives and save the boy from the snake. if we see an old lady having problems with her groceries, we should sacrifice our time to assist her to carry her load or even open the door for her if the opportunity arises. it is all about loving one another as human beings that the Lord wants to instill in all of us. cos' when you love one another, you will not commit sins against them like if you love your mother, will you want to hurt her intentionally like accusing her falsely? will you want to hurt your brother by having adultery with your sister in law?
love is what God is teaching.
Heaven is where Yahweh lives, but is that where belivers will live in the world to come? Maybe try reading the book of Revelations?
Love one another as I have loved you is not really a new commandment. It espouses the 10 mitzvot given by Yahweh in the Tenakh (OT). To Yeshua's peers, it was automatically known to be taken from there.
I don't think so. Love is not what Yeshua is teaching. Yeshua is really teaching repentance. Love is but one of the myraid of things that you do after repenting and after loving Him. Otherwise the love would be warped and not in the correct context.
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i wish people will own up to their own mistake
where is the integrity nowadays
sigh
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Originally posted by novelltie:
yes, you can try... i'm not stopping you for i'm not the judge end of the day. i'm can't stop you from committing crimes. i can't say to God, "hey, this guy's bad for the majority of his life yet why do i see him in Heaven?"
there is a story in the bible (Matthew 20; 1:16)a parable told by Jesus;
there was a land owner whose vinefield has yielded and it's time for harvest. he set out to the market place in the early morning search for some men to assist in the harvesting and at the corner, he saw 3 men. he said, "work for me in my fields till the end of the day and i'll pay you 5 denarius.
at noon, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
at mid noon, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
at about 5 pm, he saw another group of men and he said to them, "work for me in my fields till the end of day and i'll pay you 5 denarius...
so the harvesting end about 7 pm... and those who started work early expected to get paid more since they worked longer hours than those who started at 5 pm but the land owner paid all of them the same wage... of course those who started the earliest complained viciously...
the land owner replied, "son, i did not cheat you. i paid you what i've promised; 5 denarius. don't i have the right to do as i wish with my own money? or are you jealous because i'm generous?"
the Lord God is generous, who am i to complain if He wishes to take you home with Him at the end of the day?
The problem is that is you are preaching and promising, that Yahweh will be as generous as you say, but how can you guarantee that it will be? Do you want to be responsible for leading someone astray with that teaching? Are you willing to bear that responsibility?
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brey, doesnt it sound like the cheap grace doctrine aka antinomianism??? u heard of it?
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
The problem is that is you are preaching and promising, that Yahweh will be as generous as you say, but how can you guarantee that it will be? Do you want to be responsible for leading someone astray with that teaching? Are you willing to bear that responsibility?
friend, i have not promised anything. yes, i cannot guarantee anything, that's why if you have read my posts earlier on i'm telling you and the rest of the world, it's okay to have a different opinion and beliefs. i'm not even teaching, i'm just quoting the bible. if you think i'm preaching, it's your opinion and i'm not going to try changing that.
i'm not going to change your religion for you, i'm telling you and the rest of the world that i'm perfectly fine if you want to be a Taoist, a Buddhist or even a Muslim. i have no distinction because it's your choice and it's your life. i am not even going to shun you if you are a different religion. frankly in my everyday life, i have never used religion as a guide for making friends.
as i've said, i'm being the most open minded Catholic around here.
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Originally posted by despondent:
brey, doesnt it sound like the cheap grace doctrine aka antinomianism??? u heard of it?
Eh despondent, you very scholarly lah.. antinomianism.. wah big word... yes I have heard of cheap grace...
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Eh despondent, you very scholarly lah.. antinomianism.. wah big word... yes I have heard of cheap grace...
very very "deep"... i have to find the dictionary for it...
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Bro novelltie, like wat u told me...listen to MJ's human nature...haha...u told me if it's not worth fighting for don't... let them win if its life & death matters to them. fight for your rights only if it's worth fighting for right?
For some pple if they can't hav the last word in an argument they can't swallow.
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Originally posted by novelltie:maybe i am wrong, maybe it's just my perception... maybe i'm just being silly but i remembered i was told that sinful man can still enter the gates of Heaven if he repents at the last minute or second.
friend, i have not promised anything. yes, i cannot guarantee anything, that's why if you have read my posts earlier on i'm telling you and the rest of the world, it's okay to have a different opinion and beliefs. i'm not even teaching, i'm just quoting the bible. if you think i'm preaching, it's your opinion and i'm not going to try changing that.
My dear, I really don't see any verse you have put up to put your point across.
Just wind back for a minute and think, supposing you were having this conversation with a friend and this certain person heard what you said, would not this person go off with the wrong message in his head? It's too misleading and dangerous to put it across that way.. exactly for that fact that you cannot guarantee that Yahweh will be that generous that you should not speak about this very point.
Besides, we are not talking about what religion I want to be but the religion that you believe, a religion is only as strong as its followers and if you cannot grasp the basic tenents of your religion, how can you speak about it?
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so i do see people wanting to have last word, contradicting basically whatever they said
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brey, antinomianism has the same meaning as cheap grace...i have met catholics like novelltie...they r usually not very concern abt the salvation of the lost. reason being they believe tat the lost can still go heaven if they repent during or after the purgatory. i have met catholics who tell me tat its not logical for God to send buddhist monks, taoist priests n such righteous n holy ppl to hell...so they sincerely believe tat such ppl can go heaven...
yes, i noe the non-christians in tis forum will embrace such christians since they appear more at peace n less self-righteous...basically, novelltie falls in the category of catholics who believe tat accumulating enuff gd works can get u to heaven...one pt to note is tat protestants usually dun take such a stand...such a stand can onli be found among the catholics where mainstream christianity is concerned...
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Originally posted by despondent:
brey, antinomianism has the same meaning as cheap grace...i have met catholics like novelltie...they r usually not very concern abt the salvation of the lost. reason being they believe tat the lost can still go heaven if they repent during or after the purgatory. i have met catholics who tell me tat its not logical for God to send buddhist monks, taoist priests n such righteous n holy ppl to hell...so they sincerely believe tat such ppl can go heaven...
yes, i noe the non-christians in tis forum will embrace such christians since they appear more at peace n less self-righteous...basically, novelltie falls in the category of catholics who believe tat accumulating enuff gd works can get u to heaven...one pt to note is tat protestants usually dun take such a stand...such a stand can onli be found among the catholics where mainstream christianity is concerned...
Ah.. but the bible clearly states that works alone cannot save.... and that is really not what turning back to Yahweh is about. My question is that if Yahweh was such a jealous G_d, why would he want the priest of another "god" to enter into salvation? I mean like in the OT, these people wer supposed to be killed, destroyed etc.. just does not make sense to me. BTW, being a buddhist monk or a taoist priest does not make one automatically righteous in the eyes of Yahweh...puzzled.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
so i do see people wanting to have last word, contradicting basically whatever they said
kekekeke....
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
kekekeke....
tsk, no salary no talk
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Originally posted by despondent:
brey, antinomianism has the same meaning as cheap grace...i have met catholics like novelltie...they r usually not very concern abt the salvation of the lost. reason being they believe tat the lost can still go heaven if they repent during or after the purgatory. i have met catholics who tell me tat its not logical for God to send buddhist monks, taoist priests n such righteous n holy ppl to hell...so they sincerely believe tat such ppl can go heaven...
yes, i noe the non-christians in tis forum will embrace such christians since they appear more at peace n less self-righteous...basically, novelltie falls in the category of catholics who believe tat accumulating enuff gd works can get u to heaven...one pt to note is tat protestants usually dun take such a stand...such a stand can onli be found among the catholics where mainstream christianity is concerned...
i must say you are very very wise...
yes, i sincerely believe that all good men goes to heaven irregardless of religion and all sinful men, if repented can still enter heaven. i am very convinced that the Lord is generous and kind. this is my opinion and you may object but again, it's my opinion.
without His generousity, i would have never met my wife for i was a very big sinner then. i committed adultery like no one cared, i've committed sins that deserves retribution but the Lord was kind enough to allow me to meet my wife who changed my perspectives. He gave me opportunities to work and earn enough for a wedding when times were bad and my qualifications pretty lame; a diploma in info-communications gets you nowhere.
the Lord was kind and generous in my opinion and though i hate to admit it... He watches over me, just like He does to the rest of the world.
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Originally posted by novelltie:
i must say you are very very wise...
yes, i sincerely believe that all good men goes to heaven irregardless of religion and all sinful men, if repented can still enter heaven. i am very convinced that the Lord is generous and kind. this is my opinion and you may object but again, it's my opinion.
without His generousity, i would have never met my wife for i was a very big sinner then. i committed adultery like no one cared, i've committed sins that deserves retribution but the Lord was kind enough to allow me to meet my wife who changed my perspectives. He gave me opportunities to work and earn enough for a wedding when times were bad and my qualifications pretty lame; a diploma in info-communications gets you nowhere.
the Lord was kind and generous in my opinion and though i hate to admit it... He watches over me, just like He does to the rest of the world.
*Applauds*
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Ah.. but the bible clearly states that works alone cannot save.... and that is really not what turning back to Yahweh is about. My question is that if Yahweh was such a jealous G_d, why would he want the priest of another "god" to enter into salvation? I mean like in the OT, these people wer supposed to be killed, destroyed etc.. just does not make sense to me. BTW, being a buddhist monk or a taoist priest does not make one automatically righteous in the eyes of Yahweh...puzzled
a Buddhist friend once gave me something to ponder...
how do you know if God was not the creator behind Buddhism? how do you know if the reason behind all religions is actually a game between God and Satan?
i have no answer... but when you queried about why God would want the priest of another god to enter salvation, this question came to my mind.
i'm not trying to pick a fight or argue back; just something that flashed into my mind when i read your post.
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Originally posted by novelltie:
i must say you are very very wise...
yes, i sincerely believe that all good men goes to heaven irregardless of religion and all sinful men, if repented can still enter heaven. i am very convinced that the Lord is generous and kind. this is my opinion and you may object but again, it's my opinion.
without His generousity, i would have never met my wife for i was a very big sinner then. i committed adultery like no one cared, i've committed sins that deserves retribution but the Lord was kind enough to allow me to meet my wife who changed my perspectives. He gave me opportunities to work and earn enough for a wedding when times were bad and my qualifications pretty lame; a diploma in info-communications gets you nowhere.
the Lord was kind and generous in my opinion and though i hate to admit it... He watches over me, just like He does to the rest of the world.
Then follow Him and all His ways. Understand who your G_d is and what He requires from you.
If all good men go to heaven regardless of religion, then we need a definiton of what is good in the sight of Yahweh. If you don't have that definition, then you are just aiming at a moving target and Yahweh is not that wishy washy. He is clear and precise as to what He wants from you and He is the same yesterday, today and forever.