Catholic have more than 1 Bible ?
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I kinda take offence when you said "It was the Catholic Church who first translated Bible into English.... "Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:But why the interest in English translation? -
I shall rephrase it to venucalar languages.Originally posted by Icemoon:I kinda take offence when you said "It was the Catholic Church who first translated Bible into English.... " -
too late.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I shall rephrase it to venucalar languages.
anyway no issue with vernacular languages. -
Why you so easily offended one?Originally posted by Icemoon:I kinda take offence when you said "It was the Catholic Church who first translated Bible into English.... "
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Perversion of history.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Why you so easily offended one? 
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actually i dun quite understand the need to pray to the saints so tt they can intercede for us, none of the apostles ever asked moses or elijah to intercede for dem rite? even though we can b sure moses and elijah is WITH God now..
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Most of the apostles could not speak Hebrew well, so they can't asked Moses or Elijah.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:actually i dun quite understand the need to pray to the saints so tt they can intercede for us, none of the apostles ever asked moses or elijah to intercede for dem rite? even though we can b sure moses and elijah is WITH God now.. -
Because Scripture tells us to ask our fellow Christians to intercede for one another. You ask your friends to pray for you and u pray with your friends etc. That is interceding. Similiarly in Catholicism, the Church is in communion with the Saints and hence they too can pray for us.Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:actually i dun quite understand the need to pray to the saints so tt they can intercede for us, none of the apostles ever asked moses or elijah to intercede for dem rite? even though we can b sure moses and elijah is WITH God now..
Scripture quotes to show Saints to pray for us.When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints. - Rev 5:8
To show that we are called to intercede for one another
Another angel came and stood at the altar, 3 holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the saints, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the saints went up before God from the hand of the angel - Rev 8:3-4
When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. They cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. - Rev 6:9-11
Brothers, pray for us (too). 1 Thess 5:25
1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says "pray constantly." If Jesus' role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?
as you help us with prayer, so that thanks may be given by many on our behalf for the gift granted us through the prayers of many. - 2Cor 1;11
Ohh and didnt Elijah and Moses appear in the Transfiguration. If they are unable to help us, why did they appear to Jesus? -
They are not there to help you.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Ohh and didnt Elijah and Moses appear in the Transfiguration. If they are unable to help us, why did they appear to Jesus?
They are there to have a good time with Jesus. -
My argumentss is meant to show that those in heaven still can help mortals and those on Earth. They are not separated as Protestants would love us to beleive. Instead we are in communion with the Saints in heaven.Originally posted by Icemoon:They are not there to help you.
They are there to have a good time with Jesus.
If you dont believe in intercessory prayers, why do people intercede and pray for one another?
If those living here on earth can intercede in behalf of each other, then those which have already been glorified in heaven, and are even closer "in Christ", are made holy as "one" unified through him (the mediator between God and men- on earth and heaven) by his sacrifice, can certainly intercede for those on earth as well.....Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. - James 5:16
How much more powerful s the prayer of one who is fully sanctified in heaven.... -
They can hear you meh?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:How much more powerful s the prayer of one who is fully sanctified in heaven.... -
And why cant they? Are they not part of the Church???Originally posted by Icemoon:They can hear you meh?
Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us. If not, what were they doing in revelations? Do they need to pray for themselves when they are already fully glorified...who else are they praying for? -
no mah .. Revelation is special case .. you can't use it to prove general case.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:And why cant they? Are they not part of the Church???
Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us. If not, what were they doing in revelations? Do they need to pray for themselves when they are already fully glorified...who else are they praying for?
You are using specifics to argue for generalities? -
Your arguments are illogical.Originally posted by Icemoon:no mah .. Revelation is special case .. you can't use it to prove general case.
You are using specifics to argue for generalities? -
what arguments?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Your arguments are illogical.
I haven't even begin yet. -
Then begin with it if u can find one. Good luck in confuting Scripture and Church FathersOriginally posted by Icemoon:what arguments?
I haven't even begin yet. -
don't bother lah.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Then begin with it if u can find one. Good luck in confuting Scripture and Church Fathers
even the prots don't bother liao, I bother for what? -
LOL...well only calvinist are against saint intercessory prayers.Originally posted by Icemoon:don't bother lah.
even the prots don't bother liao, I bother for what?
Martin Luther and Wesley venerated Mary. Anglicans as well.
And since when did prot become the benchmark of christinaity??? -
And since when did Christianity become the benchmark of the Truth?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:And since when did prot become the benchmark of christinaity???
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Since 33AD when the Catholic Church was foundedOriginally posted by Icemoon:And since when did Christianity become the benchmark of the Truth? -
so before 33AD, WHO has the Truth?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Since 33AD when the Catholic Church was founded -
The Jews naturally. BUt once Jesus died and created the New Convenant, all the authority and truth is transfered to the Church.Originally posted by Icemoon:so before 33AD, WHO has the Truth?
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Haha .. God would transfer His Truth from His people to the pagans? The Old Covenant, which God gave on Sinai, would be mysteriously replaced 1200 years later by pagans?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:The Jews naturally. BUt once Jesus died and created the New Convenant, all the authority and truth is transfered to the Church.
Don't make me laugh.
Once again, you just reinforced the fact that anti-semitism started from Christianity. -
sad to say, Icey, you have a point here.Originally posted by Icemoon:Haha .. God would transfer His Truth from His people to the pagans? The Old Covenant, which God gave on Sinai, would be mysteriously replaced 1200 years later by pagans?
Don't make me laugh.
Once again, you just reinforced the fact that anti-semitism started from Christianity. -
I urge anti-semitic people like Mr Pope to read the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament.Originally posted by vince69:sad to say, Icey, you have a point here.
During the last days, the Jews will be the focus, not the Church in Rome.
In fact, when the Temple is rebuilt, sacrifice will resume. The eucharist will be superseded by the original and proper sacrifice.
So tell me, who has the Truth?