Can pastor hold a platinum card and own club memberships?
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Actually my argument with you was whether a pastor should receive allowance or salary. I said a salary is more appropriate because a pastor has a family to feed, unlike a priest.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Up till now, still nobody could explain why a pastor needs such a high salary. He is not a CEO or MD of a multi million dollar business. He is merely a servant serving in a community which survives highly on individual's weekly donation at the church service.
Previously, some have said that because pastors have families to feed. That is fine. But... $10,000 a month?!?!!? He has 50 children to feed?
Whether a pastor receives high or low salary depends on the church. In a mega-church with a congregation of like 10k (NCC has more than 12,000 members), it is 'weird' if the pastor only get like 2-3k per month. It is weird also if you pay your pastor 2-3k but your church has titanium walls. -
It is nothing weird about paying pastor only 2-3K a month with or without titanium walls. The problem is even without (or cannot afford) titanium walls, pastors are drawing high pay. NCC doesn't even have its own church building (I don't think they own The Rock at Suntec).Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually my argument with you was whether a pastor should receive allowance or salary. I said a salary is more appropriate because a pastor has a family to feed, unlike a priest.
Whether a pastor receives high or low salary depends on the church. In a mega-church with a congregation of like 10k (NCC has more than 12,000 members), it is 'weird' if the pastor only get like 2-3k per month. It is weird also if you pay your pastor 2-3k but your church has titanium walls.
Churches in Singapore are all registered charities and/or IPC. With T T Durai's case happened previously, we should scrutinise how the church money is being used. After all, it's the highly salaried pastors who weekly urged people to donate. Maybe the pastors should display a little bit integrity by making it clear that part of the proceeds goes to upkeeping his comfortable lifestyle -- changing a new car every year, club memberships, titanium cards, holiday to USA or Europe with family etc. -
Opulence has some correlation with congregation size and the people in it. For example, 100 old folks cannot match up with 10 elites like doctors and lawyers. The titanium walls are only an example. The real issue should be the amount of tithes received every month and the percentage the staff is getting. Once again, it doesn't make sense for Pastor Prince to receive only 2-3k per month for pastoring 12,000 people.Originally posted by Honeybunz:It is nothing weird about paying pastor only 2-3K a month with or without titanium walls. The problem is even without (or cannot afford) titanium walls, pastors are drawing high pay. NCC doesn't even have its own church building (I don't think they own The Rock at Suntec).
Churches in Singapore are all registered charities and/or IPC. With T T Durai's case happened previously, we should scrutinise how the church money is being used. After all, it's the highly salaried pastors who weekly urged people to donate. Maybe the pastors should display a little bit integrity by making it clear that part of the proceeds goes to upkeeping his comfortable lifestyle -- changing a new car every year, club memberships, titanium cards, holiday to USA or Europe with family etc.
I believe the financial statement is made available during every AGM.
Not that I feel very happy with pastors drawing 10k per month. I just feel they are entitled to that amount if you consider the amount of tithes received a month. The impact is miniscule for a church if the pastor now get 2k instead of 10k. But 'morale' might plummet.
The church should be transparent with how they use the tithes. Since the pastor is drawing a salary, we shouldn't call it a proceed and he need not inform people how he spends the money. -
A church is like a membership. You 'pay' for the pastor and facilities. Which is why the comparison with charities is unfair because you don't benefit from your charity contribution other than tax exemption.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Churches in Singapore are all registered charities and/or IPC. With T T Durai's case happened previously, we should scrutinise how the church money is being used. After all, it's the highly salaried pastors who weekly urged people to donate. -
have got to read 'people with substance''s posts.
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Churches, as registered IPC, does issue tax exemption receipt. They are non profit orgn. But in case, by paying high salary, this is an indiciation that the church is making profit.Originally posted by Icemoon:A church is like a membership. You 'pay' for the pastor and facilities. Which is why the comparison with charities is unfair because you don't benefit from your charity contribution other than tax exemption. -
Which contributes to my point. You pay for the pastor and facilities, in addition to whatever tax exemption receipt.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Churches, as registered IPC, does issue tax exemption receipt. They are non profit orgn. But in case, by paying high salary, this is an indiciation that the church is making profit.
Making profit? Hmm .. my finance sucks but how is profit defined in this case? It looks like all churches will be making a profit, just how much only. -
As long as it's a revenue, it's called a proceed, esp when it is a revenue from sponsorship of donations.Originally posted by Icemoon:Opulence has some correlation with congregation size and the people in it. For example, 100 old folks cannot match up with 10 elites like doctors and lawyers. The titanium walls are only an example. The real issue should be the amount of tithes received every month and the percentage the staff is getting. Once again, it doesn't make sense for Pastor Prince to receive only 2-3k per month for pastoring 12,000 people.
I believe the financial statement is made available during every AGM.
Not that I feel very happy with pastors drawing 10k per month. I just feel they are entitled to that amount if you consider the amount of tithes received a month. The impact is miniscule for a church if the pastor now get 2k instead of 10k. But 'morale' might plummet.
The church should be transparent with how they use the tithes. Since the pastor is drawing a salary, we shouldn't call it a proceed and he need not inform people how he spends the money.
If the pastor feels that he don't need to declare how he spend his salary (which is solely from the hardearned money from the congretation), I see a need to remind the church-goers that they have the right to question that (ie. why pastor's high salary, where the money goes to).
If the pastor cannot provide a decent answer, but start quoting from bibles and here and there to confuse you, STOP DONATING! Don't let this kind of pastor con you into contributing. They will probably say things to make you feel bad or even tell you that you won't go to heave. They may even quote and anyhow twist the bible meaning to make you look lousy.
Personally, Protestant or Catholics, I will always advise them to go to a main stream, established church. Rather than those that branch out out of no where, cuz these ARE the ones that will force you to tithe (claiming that it's biblical.
Just remember: you want donate -- by all means. Just remember that money is not merely for upkeeping the church. It's mostly for providing and maintaining the pastor's condo, new car etc. -
I haven't seen their financial statement. So I won't know how much surplus they make every week. But to register as a charity and IPC, they are known as non-for profit organisation. But the way they pay their pastor is like paying a CEO. But a pastor is not a CEO. and the church is not and should never run like a business entity.Originally posted by Icemoon:Which contributes to my point. You pay for the pastor and facilities, in addition to whatever tax exemption receipt.
Making profit? Hmm .. my finance sucks but how is profit defined in this case? It looks like all churches will be making a profit, just how much only.
I am going to find out from other source to see if there is AWS, variable bonus and profit sharing. This is very serious. We should open the can of worms like the way we deal with NKF issues. -
i gt a question
Being a pastor can earn money? -
of course. if you are paid a salary, you can earn money.Originally posted by xiaosotong:i gt a question
Being a pastor can earn money? -
They all say can.Originally posted by xiaosotong:i gt a question
Being a pastor can earn money?
But I say cannot. Pastors should be paid allowance just enough for spending. -
I tend to support the view that Pastors should be paid a salary (as they have family to feed).Originally posted by Honeybunz:They all say can.
But I say cannot. Pastors should be paid allowance just enough for spending.
How much? I think 2-3k is very good already, as I believe some of them have cars/lodging from the church. -
wait a minute .. Catholics got non mainstream church/parish? Bishop will approve meh?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Personally, Protestant or Catholics, I will always advise them to go to a main stream, established church. Rather than those that branch out out of no where, cuz these ARE the ones that will force you to tithe (claiming that it's biblical.
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Curiousity's sake......how much are Catholic Bishops paid? More than the average priest?
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Then the question to ask is .. how much is the increment every year.Originally posted by laoda99:I tend to support the view that Pastors should be paid a salary (as they have family to feed).
How much? I think 2-3k is very good already, as I believe some of them have cars/lodging from the church.
Earning 2-3k is quite pathetic. You work for MOE teaching get more than 3k starting pay. They teach thousands of people get only 2-3k?
Edit - not so bad if they get perks and free vehicle and lodging from the church. -
Increment can be pegged to civil service.Originally posted by Icemoon:Then the question to ask is .. how much is the increment every year.
Earning 2-3k is quite pathetic. You work for MOE teaching get more than 3k starting pay. They teach thousands of people get only 2-3k?
Edit - not so bad if they get perks and free vehicle and lodging from the church.
U mad har. Starting pay for MOE where got more than 3k. U think everyone 1st class or 2nd upper honours ha?
If I am not wrong, some denominations provide transport for their pastors. If petrol is reimbursed, then 2-3k starting pay is very good liao. -
This I certainly agree. 2-3K is very enough to feed him and his family already.Originally posted by laoda99:I tend to support the view that Pastors should be paid a salary (as they have family to feed).
How much? I think 2-3k is very good already, as I believe some of them have cars/lodging from the church.
Provide lodging -- this is quite reasonable and ideally he lives near or within church premise. Pastors are to work full time, not just during office hours.
Provide car -- this is also reasonable cuz they WILL need transportation for their work (house visits, hospital visits etc).
Serving the church is a religious vocation, not a professional job like Managing Director or what. There is no reason for a pastor to draw a 5 digit pay. -
for guys who have served NS .. third class hons also get > 3k.Originally posted by laoda99:U mad har. Starting pay for MOE where got more than 3k. U think everyone 1st class or 2nd upper honours ha?
Honours $3,115 to $3,292
http://www.moe.gov.sg/teach/salary.htm -
yah, open the can.
And show to the willing givers.
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I only know average priest is less than $1000 allowance cuz their everything already bao by the church.Originally posted by laoda99:Curiousity's sake......how much are Catholic Bishops paid? More than the average priest?
Bishop could be slightly more, cuz they always travel overseas for meetings (I think). Never spoken with an Archbishop before, so I dunno. Paiseh.
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They earn more than the NSFs.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I only know average priest is less than $1000 allowance cuz their everything already bao by the church.
NS only bao the lodging and food. No transport. -
The ultimate question is how much does the Pope earn.
Does he earn more than the archbishop of canterbury? -
open the can, and still some ppl are willing to give, that's fair.Originally posted by M©+square:yah, open the can.
And show to the willing givers.
It's wrong to keep willing givers in the dark. -
cuz NSmen dun travel from camp to hospital and then to homes, and then to elderly folks and then back to camp. But pastors and priests do.Originally posted by Icemoon:They earn more than the NSFs.
NS only bao the lodging and food. No transport.