Sufferings
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Page 5!
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eh...i thought i accepted your challenge liao, answered your question already, wads nex?Originally posted by M©+square:Page 5! 
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next better challenger lor.Originally posted by davidche:eh...i thought i accepted your challenge liao, answered your question already, wads nex? 
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Which answer?Originally posted by davidche:eh...i thought i accepted your challenge liao, answered your question already, wads nex?
You mean the 'I don't knows???' -
i hv already answered under the circumstance that the question had a lack of relavant info.Originally posted by M©+square:Which answer?
You mean the 'I don't knows???' -
So you're ready to take another question?Originally posted by davidche:i hv already answered under the circumstance that the question had a lack of relavant info. -
you want him to jie1 ni3 how many zhao1?Originally posted by M©+square:So you're ready to take another question? -
sure,...... its fun....keep my brains workingOriginally posted by M©+square:So you're ready to take another question?
oh, and did i get correct for the 1st answer? -
We'll see how it goes?Originally posted by Icemoon:you want him to jie1 ni3 how many zhao1?
You're free to help/support him.
Maybe you may lead me to see more of other perspective.
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Let's go back to thread: Fundamental Questions.Originally posted by davidche:sure,...... its fun....keep my brains working -
should we do it like .. 6 sects attack Guangming Peak?Originally posted by M©+square:We'll see how it goes?
You're free to help/support him.
Maybe you may lead me to see more of other perspective.
Mc2, Icey, vince, ben, SIS, lau
We have protestant, catholic, atheist, humanist etc. all attack him at once. -
you very funny, we may end up "killing" each other before we even reach the base camp....Originally posted by Icemoon:should we do it like .. 6 sects attack Guangming Peak?
Mc2, Icey, vince, ben, SIS, lau
We have protestant, catholic, atheist, humanist etc. all attack him at once. -
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Icemoon : I think you become minutes taker in Fundamental Questions better.
Can take stock of our exchanges. -
we create our own suffering. In order to lead a life of happiness and luxury, we make ourself miserable while trying to get all those worldly procession out of our reach that will eventually lead us to misery.Misery= Miserable Miserable= unhappiness, unhappiness= Suffering. Why unhappiness= suffering. If u are unhappy, nothing will be is worth to be happy for thus causing pple ard u or urself to SUFFER in misery. I maybe wrong in my opinion no offence, this is where we share view.Originally posted by ben1xy:a question then. Who created suffering? suffering cannot come into existence without being created. is there a force that is equal to that of God? -
....finally....Originally posted by davidche:yes indeed its a state of the mind. -
why I not here?Originally posted by Icemoon:should we do it like .. 6 sects attack Guangming Peak?
Mc2, Icey, vince, ben, SIS, lau
We have protestant, catholic, atheist, humanist etc. all attack him at once. 
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ok lah... you can take my place in the list, I go hide in the bunker, watch show...Originally posted by Chin Eng:why I not here? -
If my POV that for most parts, especially in the early records of Genesis is to be taken as an analogy or a parable, then that conversation may not have taken place literally. If it is going to interest you, I am not one of those who believe that creation took place in 6-24 hr days.... but this is just my personal view. In any case, I don't see it as holding a conflicting view of the Bible. There are many parts of the Bible that is written as analogies and Jesus Himself told many parables to illustrate specific points.
If u do not wanna take genesis literally, then how do u know which part to treat seriously and which part u do not ? There r a lot of fundamental issues which answers lies in genesis, such as why there r sins etc. It seems too convenient to just take any part of the genesis and view it seriously yet ignore certain part of it if it seems outdatedThis is simple. Punishment is something that someone inflicts upon oneself, suffering is what one feels. Obviously, in many cases, punishment can result to suffering. However one need to understand that there are cases where there is suffering but no punishment, and vice versa. At the end of the day, the individual has to decide if he is suffering or not.
My definition of suffering is different, from dictionary.com
I am diabetic.... but am I suffering? Sure, from the figure of speech, it can be said that "I am suffering from a disease", but in my own mind, I am not suffering. I only happen to have a disease and have come to terms with it and take care of my diet so that this disease to not worsen. But am I suffering, of course not.
suffering: the state of a person or thing that suffers
suffer: To tolerate or endure evil, injury, pain, or death
In short, suffering is not only mental. There is a physical element to suffering as well. In the sense from genesis, god implement the physical trait of suffering (work, sick, death) and these lead to suffering. Without these physical traits, there is no suffering. From your example
I am diabetic.... but am I suffering?
Yes, u r suffering. U just cope wih suffering but tat doesn't make suffering lesser. U still has to undergo the pain of injections and control of diet. And tis suffering has a physical trait to it. U got a sickness and tat is why u suffer. Even from a common usage of the word in the sentence "John is suffering from diabetes" has nothing to do with his mental readiness, but only physical attributes.Punishment.... say I am not happy with my son's results and I punish him by not allowing him to watch TV. In the meantime, he finds other things to do... did he suffer? No.....!
I think tis example is not wat the true question really lies. It is on whether does god create suffering or not. From the bible, it really is. God invent suffering as a punishment. And for your example, real punishment means u wanna inflict some suffering to tis person who u wanna punish. In your case, your son have restricted freedom of action and he is really suffering from it. If he do't really care about watching TV, then u r not punishing him at all
It is just tat u view suffering as something tat must be catastrophic. Minor form of punishment still result in suffering, but it just seems trivial to u.
Secondly, in the passage which u quote earlier, the crux of it is to state tat the punishment god give to men is suffering. Tat specific punishment is suffering. It is not saying all punishment=suffering, but tat particular punishment is suffering.But let's take a step back, we cut ourself, we bleed. So we can also say that God created the bleeding. Or if I spill my coffee now, I'd screw up my keyboard, and again hold God responsible for my damaged laptop.... it this a fair game?
Lets not say whether do we deserve it or not. Is not about consequences etc. It is only about who invent and implement suffering. Did adam invent out suffering and implement it on himself ? He did not do tat because he is powerless to do tat. He cannot create death or sickness etc. He cannot even imagine wat is death. And he is no idiot to implement it on himself. Then is it god tat invent and create suffering ? Well, obviously it seems tat he is the one tat come out with suffering. He comes out with the physcal traits of suffering and cursed men to it. He really shout out the words himself on his curse. Only with the presence of physical traits of suffering, then exists suffering. It is not about consequences, it is not about whether does men deserve it or not, it is only who create suffering. From the bible, god create suffering.
Yup, God created the whole infrastructure of spaceship earth. He created consequences, but we are responsible for the consequences, not Him.... -
Aiya, no suffering, where got joy rite. Question too simple leh. Can you come up with more challenging ones?
Suffering and joy is not opposite. Opposite of sadness is joy. It is correct to say tat no sadness where got joy, but it is not correct to say no suffering where got joy. U can stll have joy even if u r suffering, like a diabetic men still can have joy.
Saying there is no suffering where got joy is like saying if there is no bitter taste, there is not sweet taste. One got to realise bitter taste and sweet taste r not opposite or one another. U can feel bitter and sweet at the same time. For sadness and joy, a man at a point in time, can overall either feel happy or sad. (Lets say he make a mistake and happy he knows some lesson over it yet sad because he make a mistake. But OVERALL[ amount of happy - sad] he is either happy or sad) -
you are the reinforcement.Originally posted by Chin Eng:why I not here? -
nahh.. feel free to post. so u r positing that suffering is just a state of mind?Originally posted by oldbandit:we create our own suffering. In order to lead a life of happiness and luxury, we make ourself miserable while trying to get all those worldly procession out of our reach that will eventually lead us to misery.Misery= Miserable Miserable= unhappiness, unhappiness= Suffering. Why unhappiness= suffering. If u are unhappy, nothing will be is worth to be happy for thus causing pple ard u or urself to SUFFER in misery. I maybe wrong in my opinion no offence, this is where we share view. -
Originally posted by vince69:you very funny, we may end up "killing" each other before we even reach the base camp....
high possibility -
...but isn't it up to this individual to decide whether he's happy or sad? likewise, fact: I am diabetic, but I decide I am not suffering inspite of the pills (no injections). I might avoid some food but it's no different from a person who decides he doesn't want to drink beer even though he might enjoy it.
......Lets say he make a mistake and happy he knows some lesson over it yet sad because he make a mistake. But OVERALL[ amount of happy - sad] he is either happy or sad)
having said that... if you still chose to think that I am suffering, it's ok with me...
the genesis account.... I can explain, but would you accept anything that I say... note the word ACCEPT, not AGREE. Therefore, I won't even want to start. -
for whom????Originally posted by Icemoon:you are the reinforcement. 