why
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They are being punished for the sins of their past lives. That is my personal theory.Originally posted by bluewinged:can anyone enlighten me? if God created human why some people are borned with deficiencies? be it physical or mental. -
In the first place, did i even talk about you or "atheists" ? Why get so worked up and defensive ? Your choice of language and spear of emotions doesnt really make you a logical person either.Originally posted by skyfoo:it seems that u christians still dun understand how we atheists think. for ur claim, u say we refuse god, but the fact is we dun believe in god. there's a difference here. by saying we refuse god, it's like saying we know that god exist but we deny it and claim otherwise. this is definitely no true and u know it. unless u can convince us that god exist, there's no way we believe in his existence. and till then, u shld not say we refuse him.
So based on your above statements, are you trying to get people here in the forum to convince you ? Dont you think there is a better way ?
Are you really seeking, or are you just making use of any opportunity to bash the whole boat of people who believe in God ?
If you are of the former, i am sure you are wiser than just to seek in a christian forum. If you are of the latter, then do be watchful less your own bitterness sink you into a deep hole of misery each and every single day. -
for ur info, my previous post has no offensive/aggressive meaning. not my intention at all. u read too much into it. and if u're not directing at atheists, den who? so who refuse god here?Originally posted by klydeer:In the first place, did i even talk about you or "atheists" ? Why get so worked up and defensive ? Your choice of language and spear of emotions doesnt really make you a logical person either.
So based on your above statements, are you trying to get people here in the forum to convince you ? Dont you think there is a better way ?
Are you really seeking, or are you just making use of any opportunity to bash the whole boat of people who believe in God ?
If you are of the former, i am sure you are wiser than just to seek in a christian forum. If you are of the latter, then do be watchful less your own bitterness sink you into a deep hole of misery each and every single day. -
I see, i read too much into it. Well...ok.Originally posted by skyfoo:for ur info, my previous post has no offensive/aggressive meaning. not my intention at all. u read too much into it. and if u're not directing at atheists, den who? so who refuse god here?
Who am i talking about ? i am talking in general about people who came to know God but refuse Him. Refusing God is not so much about not acknowledging His existence. It is more about refusing what He has offered and who He is.
I was one of them in the past and i know how it was like. Definitely not talking about you since you claim not to know God - so chill. -
ok, peace. u're the one who shld chill.Originally posted by klydeer:I see, i read too much into it. Well...ok.
Who am i talking about ? i am talking in general about people who came to know God but refuse Him. Refusing God is not so much about not acknowledging His existence. It is more about refusing what He has offered and who He is.
I was one of them in the past and i know how it was like. Definitely not talking about you since you claim not to know God - so chill. -
Chilly chill. Have a Kilkenny !Originally posted by skyfoo:ok, peace. u're the one who shld chill.
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Hello there my friendOriginally posted by bluewinged:can anyone enlighten me? if God created human why some people are borned with deficiencies? be it physical or mental.
Sin infected all of us my friend: Spirit, soul and body [not to mention mind, will and emotions].
IT IS DUE TO THE CURSE THAT SIN BROUGHT IN. GOD ALLOWED SIN TO TAKE IT'S TOLL ON FALLEN HUMAN BEINGS.
Today, God is in a program of making a new creation through Jesus Christ. Someday when the Day finally comes, this new creation of His [which is perfect and impregnable to diseases and ailments] will be made manifest during the appointed time.
The important question is: "are you a part of this new creation?"
you can my friend if you repent and trust in Christ alone for salvation. -
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sorry i dun quite get wad u mean can u explain to me?sorry haha im not exactly very smart. but why are babies borned with defects when they did not commit any sin?Originally posted by Ironside:Hello there my friend
Sin infected all of us my friend: Spirit, soul and body [not to mention mind, will and emotions].
Today, God is in a program of making a new creation through Jesus Christ. Someday when the Day finally comes, this new creation of His [which is perfect and impregnable to diseases and ailments] will be made manifest during the appointed time.
The important question is: "are you a part of this new creation?"
you can my friend if you repent and trust in Christ alone for salvation. -
Actually, when our federal head Adam fell, all of us inherited his fallen nature. We are fallen in spirit, soul and body.Originally posted by bluewinged:sorry i dun quite get wad u mean can u explain to me?sorry haha im not exactly very smart. but why are babies borned with defects when they did not commit any sin?
All of us has defects the moment we are born be it physical, emotional and etc.
The moment we are born we start dying immediately. -
no wonder Jesus must be virgin birthed.Originally posted by Ironside:Actually, when our federal head Adam fell, all of us inherited his fallen nature. We are fallen in spirit, soul and body. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
This runs contrary to the one belief that infants who die will go heaven.
Actually, when our federal head Adam fell, all of us inherited his fallen nature. We are fallen in spirit, soul and [b]body. [/b]
Also .. this runs contrary to the fact that God favoured certain individuals in the OT whom He calls righteous.
I dunno they fallen or not .. but God clearly favoured them. Noah, Enoch etc. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
icic.just feel very disturbed by the fact that due to one man, the future generations have to suffer. is it right to question like this cuz im also a believer.
Actually, when our federal head Adam fell, all of us inherited his fallen nature. We are fallen in spirit, soul and [b]body.
All of us has defects the moment we are born be it physical, emotional and etc.
The moment we are born we start dying immediately.
[/b] -
yah lor .. where is justice?Originally posted by bluewinged:icic.just feel very disturbed by the fact that due to one man, the future generations have to suffer. is it right to question like this cuz im also a believer.
Actually it wasn't due to one man .. it was because of that guillible woman called Eve!
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God gave the command of not to eat that fruit to Adam, instead of reminding Eve of it, he just stand there and watch as she talk to the serpent and eat the fruit, and also eat with her.Originally posted by Icemoon:yah lor .. where is justice?
Actually it wasn't due to one man .. it was because of that guillible woman called Eve!
Eve can claim ignornant, Adam cannot
btw, after that, they (starting with Adam) try to play the "tai chi" game (aka push the blame) with God. -
There r 2 problems with tis notion on adam eating the fruit
1) God is too unforgiving, harsh and over-react so much so tat he curse all beings (animals included) to death, create "sin" and create all these problems of the world due to his outburst. He could simply just forgive, or given his omnipotent, reverse time and take out the fruit from adam, or just in the first place keep the fruit far away since he already knew from the first place adam is gonna eat anyway, given his omniknowledge. In short god really expect adam to eat the fruit and purposely did nothing to stop it
2) Inheriting sins from your ancesters is really bullsh!t. Wat he did is beyond your control and there is nothing u can do to reverse the fact adam eat the fruit. It is really the case where when the father was charged with murder all his sons and daughters, who is can even be 1 year old, have to die with him. -
If Eve can claim ignorance .. then why is she still sinful and cursed with childbirth?Originally posted by vince69:God gave the command of not to eat that fruit to Adam, instead of reminding Eve of it, he just stand there and watch as she talk to the serpent and eat the fruit, and also eat with her.
Eve can claim ignornant, Adam cannot
btw, after that, they (starting with Adam) try to play the "tai chi" game (aka push the blame) with God. -
1) but she did not.Originally posted by Icemoon:If Eve can claim ignorance .. then why is she still sinful and cursed with childbirth?
2) ignorance does not equate innocence -
1. She did. In effect she told God "I dunno .. nobody told me not to eat .. the serpent told me can eat .. so I ate".Originally posted by vince69:1) but she did not.
2) ignorance does not equate innocence
2. Of course it does. A lunatic cannot be convicted of murder, don't you know that?
So at the most we can blame Eve of being too guillible. Since God owned the garden, the least she could do is to ask permission from God first. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
That's a humanistic paradigmatic measure isn't it?
[b]
2. Of course it does. A lunatic cannot be convicted of murder, don't you know that?
[b]
i would argue that if u kill someone , whether u are ignorant or not, u still have killed that someone -
actually, her claim of ignornant can (speculative) only be that God did not directly tell her, but she cannot claim don't know (she can tell the serpent that, God said if eat the fruit will die)Originally posted by Icemoon:1. She did. In effect she told God "I dunno .. nobody told me not to eat .. the serpent told me can eat .. so I ate".
2. Of course it does. A lunatic cannot be convicted of murder, don't you know that?
So at the most we can blame Eve of being too guillible. Since God owned the garden, the least she could do is to ask permission from God first.
btw, the serpent did not tell her to eat, it tempt her to eat by helping her get an excuse to do it... -
Actually, you are just being honest about it. Honestly, i got bothered by this doctrine too years ago. But i have to bow down to the teachings of Scripture. I always put this in mind: WHENEVER SCRIPTURAL REVELATION CONFLICT WITH MY LOGIC, IT SHOULD BE SCRIPTURE REVEALTION THAT SHOULD PREVAIL IN MY HEART AND MIND.Originally posted by bluewinged:icic.just feel very disturbed by the fact that due to one man, the future generations have to suffer. is it right to question like this cuz im also a believer.
[We can ask God about this[Federal Headship principle] when we get to heaven]
Actually it is through this principle in Scipture about Federal Headships we got saved. This principle of Federal Headships is a blessing and a boon to us when we see another Federal Head--Jesus Christ.
Adam was no ordinary human being. He was the representative head of us all. When he fell, we fell also. This is clearly revealed to us in Romans 5. Some would contend that we did not fell in Adam we just inherited Adam's fallen nature. But continuing our reading of Romans 5 clearly portrays THE PRINCIPLE OF REPRESENTATIVE HEADSHIPS.
Adam was our Federal Head right? But there is another Federal Head that came into the scene. The Second Adam or as our Bible's call it: the Last Adam--the Lord Jesus Christ.
When He lived here on earth, He lived righteously, He committed no sin. Then He died on the cross REPRESENTING ALL HUMAN BEINGS!!!!
In the Last Adam, we obeyed all of God's laws. Why? Because the Lord Jesus lived perfectly sinless. In Christ, we died to the penalty of our sins!!! We don't have to pay for it come Judgment Day for our Representative Head has paid that penalty for us [Christians]!!!!
Blessed principle!!!!
How can one transfer from the Federal Headship of Adam to Christ's Federal Headship?
By trusting in Christ alone for salvation. -
you mean kill or murder?Originally posted by ben1xy:That's a humanistic paradigmatic measure isn't it?
i would argue that if u kill someone , whether u are ignorant or not, u still have killed that someone
In war you must kill a lot of enemies you know? -
You are right. It was an oversight on my part.Originally posted by vince69:actually, her claim of ignornant can (speculative) only be that God did not directly tell her, but she cannot claim don't know (she can tell the serpent that, God said if eat the fruit will die)
btw, the serpent did not tell her to eat, it tempt her to eat by helping her get an excuse to do it...
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I think you are just afraid of going to hell for not believing. If the logic and scripture conflict, why should the scripture prevail? Why don't you think this way: If God doesn't exist, then you would have spent a huge part of your life believing in something that was a whole big lie. You would have spent a great amount of time gathering at a big house with strange people, mumbling to yourself your whole life. For nothing.Originally posted by Ironside:Actually, you are just being honest about it. Honestly, i got bothered by this doctrine too years ago. But i have to bow down to the teachings of Scripture. I always put this in mind: WHENEVER SCRIPTURAL REVELATION CONFLICT WITH MY LOGIC, IT SHOULD BE SCRIPTURE REVEALTION THAT SHOULD PREVAIL IN MY HEART AND MIND.
[We can ask God about this[Federal Headship principle] when we get to heaven]
Actually it is through this principle in Scipture about Federal Headships we got saved. This principle of Federal Headships is a blessing and a boon to us when we see another Federal Head--Jesus Christ.
Adam was no ordinary human being. He was the representative head of us all. When he fell, we fell also. This is clearly revealed to us in Romans 5. Some would contend that we did not fell in Adam we just inherited Adam's fallen nature. But continuing our reading of Romans 5 clearly portrays THE PRINCIPLE OF REPRESENTATIVE HEADSHIPS.
Adam was our Federal Head right? But there is another Federal Head that came into the scene. The Second Adam or as our Bible's call it: the Last Adam--the Lord Jesus Christ.
When He lived here on earth, He lived righteously, He committed no sin. Then He died on the cross REPRESENTING ALL HUMAN BEINGS!!!!
In the Last Adam, we obeyed all of God's laws. Why? Because the Lord Jesus lived perfectly sinless. In Christ, we died to the penalty of our sins!!! We don't have to pay for it come Judgment Day for our Representative Head has paid that penalty for us [Christians]!!!!
Blessed principle!!!!
How can one transfer from the Federal Headship of Adam to Christ's Federal Headship?
By trusting in Christ alone for salvation.
You won't do that, because you are afraid of going to hell. Without religion, we can still lead productive lives and be good people.