i see...u dont even know Who you are talking about all the while...for one who professed to be born again.Originally posted by casino_king:Frankly, you are an idolator.
hmm...i heard this sermon before...that was like 4 years back at NCC.Originally posted by vince69:do you know he is not joking about this part regarding "poor as a church mouse"? the context this was said is refering to people who insist that christians must live a life of proverty, cannot have enjoyment in life.
that's why, cannot sleep during service, cause will ended up with only the first part of the message and not the full picture.![]()
yes, its normally used on a person so poor he have nothing to eat. but to say a christian have to live such a life is call humbling / or identifying with the poor is not correct. Rather, personally, we are to live a life of contentment in the goodness and faithfulness of God who is our provider, and also be a blessing to the people around us.Originally posted by klydeer:hmm...i heard this sermon before...that was like 4 years back at NCC.
but interesting that the origins of the description "as poor as a church mouse" seems to come from 17th century - when churches do not have kitchens, and thats why mice living there do not get much to scavenge.
sorry, wrong hor... we are to be born again and live a life doing God's will for us in this life hor.... if it is a life of poverty among the poorest of the poor then so be it hor....Originally posted by vince69:yes, its normally used on a person so poor he have nothing to eat. but to say a christian have to live such a life is call humbling / or identifying with the poor is not correct. Rather, personally, we are to live a life of contentment in the goodness and faithfulness of God who is our provider, and also be a blessing to the people around us.![]()
living a life among the poor does not you have to be poor, its means you are there to minister to them. pocket empty does not means love God more, just like a rich person can choose to live a simple livestyle, and use his resources to bless the people around him.Originally posted by casino_king:sorry, wrong hor... we are to be born again and live a life doing God's will for us in this life hor.... if it is a life of poverty among the poorest of the poor then so be it hor....
Its about resting and having faith in the goodness and faithfulness of God.Originally posted by casino_king:please stop going around preaching prosperity hor...
Sorry wrong hor... you do not come to God with any preconditions and expectations. You simply have Faith in God. Please don't sell prosperity and idolatory. God is.Originally posted by vince69:Its about resting and having faith in the goodness and faithfulness of God.![]()
If God wanted those people to recieve money, then God would have sent them Bill Gates. God sends Christians to them to give them something even more precious. To tell them the Good News. To tell them what Jesus said: Be Born Again. Unfortunately, you seem to have no idea what being Born Again is and do not know how precious it is. That is why you focus on prosperity.Originally posted by vince69:living a life among the poor does not you have to be poor, its means you are there to minister to them. pocket empty does not means love God more, just like a rich person can choose to live a simple livestyle, and use his resources to bless the people around him.
why will God send a christian to the poor if its not to be a blessing to them, to minister to them, to show them His goodness and faithfulness?![]()
wah piangz, how many time I need to tell you don't focus on prosperity and money, and also read the full sentence, not half.Originally posted by casino_king:If God wanted those people to recieve money, then God would have sent them Bill Gates. God sends Christians to them to give them something even more precious. To tell them the Good News. To tell them what Jesus said: Be Born Again. Unfortunately, you seem to have no idea what being Born Again is and do not know how precious it is. That is why you focus on prosperity.
eh vince don't bother anymore. He just doesn't want to see things anyway. Stop tormenting yourself. Lets just all agree to leave the casino... ok?Originally posted by vince69:wah piangz, how many time I need to tell you don't focus on prosperity and money, and also read the full sentence, not half.
you whole day focus on money = prosperity, no use one, must focus in the God and His goodness and faithfulness. Blessing people is not just giving money, is also to minister to them, is to be able to identify with them, is to show them (not just telling them) God's goodness and faithfulness which is what the good news is about.
Don't focus on money, focus on God.![]()
NCC as I know and many people know, preach God focuing on healing and health and prosperity. There is no need to try to fool me as to what NCC preaches.Originally posted by vince69:wah piangz, how many time I need to tell you don't focus on prosperity and money, and also read the full sentence, not half.
you whole day focus on money = prosperity, no use one, must focus in the God and His goodness and faithfulness. Blessing people is not just giving money, is also to minister to them, is to be able to identify with them, is to show them (not just telling them) God's goodness and faithfulness which is what the good news is about.
Don't focus on money, focus on God.
Don't focus on what you think, focus on What God thinks.
Don't focus on how you wants it done, focus on how God wants it done.
Don't put a limit on God, focus on His character, and trust Him.
as for you, you should learn a thing or 2 from NCC. Don't listen to them preach about prosperity but do listen to their teaching about God not focusing on people's sins; so you stop judging the homosexuals believing that Paul in 1 Cor 6 gave you the right to judge them.Originally posted by breytonhartge:eh vince don't bother anymore. He just doesn't want to see things anyway. Stop tormenting yourself. Lets just all agree to leave the casino... ok?
What you say is true about Ps Prince's message, but just the first half of them, cause what is missing in your statement is the full picture which include on what basis these are being said, which all points to the fullness of Christ, the faithfulness and goodness of God. the key is focus on God and not on man and definitely not on God. by the way, do you know the faith we have on God is also from God? don't put this God given faith on man, cause man can fail, put them (the faith) in God, God nevers fails.Originally posted by casino_king:NCC as I know and many people know, preach God focuing on healing and health and prosperity. There is no need to try to fool me as to what NCC preaches.
Anytime you go to their service they will preach health and prosperity. They are so proud to do that so you do not have to apologise for them.
They even preach that if you do not prosper it is because you lack faith. Why are you apologising for them?
Have you ever attended their services?
What are you trying to say? That it is OK to preach that God will prosper you? That because you believe that it is God who prospers you than that is OK? That as long as you do not believe that it is your own effort but that it is God who prospers you than it is OK to preach prosperity?Originally posted by vince69:What you say is true about Ps Prince's message, but just the first half of them, cause what is missing in your statement is the full picture which include on what basis these are being said, which all points to the fullness of Christ, the faithfulness and goodness of God. the key is focus on God and not on man and definitely not on God. by the way, do you know the faith we have on God is also from God? don't put this God given faith on man, cause man can fail, put them (the faith) in God, God nevers fails.![]()
why do people want money, its because they want the lifestyle that they think only money can buy, so that they can live a life of contentment, peace, joy and hope.Originally posted by casino_king:What are you trying to say? That it is OK to preach that God will prosper you? That because you believe that it is God who prospers you than that is OK? That as long as you do not believe that it is your own effort but that it is God who prospers you than it is OK to preach prosperity?
Are you saying that?
don't worry if you don't understand, you need to keep seeking God, focus on Him and let the Holy Spirit help you to understand.Originally posted by casino_king:As you can see, I do understand the NCC message and for the longest time I was wondering what was it that disturbs Christians when they hear this type of preaching.....
Nicodemus during his conversation with the Lord Jesus felt no need for a Savior. He believed [like all the Pharisees] that his works could save him. He believed in God as Creator, King and etc. But he never believed that God in Christ is the Savior of souls.Like some of the fervent Israelites in his day he had zeal but not according to knowldege of the gospel.Originally posted by casino_king:Nick could not put his Faith in God because he believed that he had to fufill the letter of the law in order to be worthy.
Originally posted by Ironside:* serious mode...
Nicodemus during his conversation with the Lord Jesus felt no need for a Savior. He believed [like all the Pharisees] that his works could save him. He believed in God as Creator, King and etc. But he never believed that God in Christ is the Savior of souls.Like some of the fervent Israelites in his day he had zeal but not according to knowldege of the gospel.
Ro 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
He thought that it was through Law-keeping that righteousness should come. He did not know that:
"[b]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes".
To be born again or born from above we must trust in Christ alone for salvation. The gospel is the testimony of God to sinners like us. And inroder to be born from above we must believe tht testimony. And what is that testimony?
1Jo 5:10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
We are born again when He we believe what He has done to sinners through His Son. God says: "you have eternal life in Christ Jesus!!!!!!!!!!"
Faith says: "Yes, i believe that message. I will now stop believing that somehow by my good works i can have eternal life. God says: Eternal life is in His Son. There i rest in Him. I rest in what He has said"
[/b]
As much as I dun agree with CK, I do not agree with the health and prosperity doctrine also. These come from word faith preachers and we should approach it with cautionOriginally posted by vince69:don't worry if you don't understand, you need to keep seeking God, focus on Him and let the Holy Spirit help you to understand.
God bless.
agree, that's why must know the Bible, do the right thing, search the Bible, and see if the preacher is saying in accordance to that which is already in the Bible.Originally posted by laoda99:As much as I dun agree with CK, I do not agree with the health and prosperity doctrine also. These come from word faith preachers and we should approach it with caution
Like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM&search=kenneth%20copeland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4t9APdSG30&search=benny%20hinn
This is actually the result of not rightly dividing the truth.Originally posted by laoda99:As much as I dun agree with CK, I do not agree with the health and prosperity doctrine also. These come from word faith preachers and we should approach it with caution
Like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM&search=kenneth%20copeland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4t9APdSG30&search=benny%20hinn
I will have to disagree on the part that the Apostles (Paul included) are practically poor,Originally posted by Ironside:This is actually the result of not rightly dividing the truth.
Prosperity preachers would say: "BUT IT IS WRITTEN IN DEUTERONOMY AND OTHER OLD TESTAMENT PASSAGES THAT IF YOU WILL TURN TO GOD YOU WILL BE MADE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!"
At this point this is where the value of seeing the Church and Israel distinct comes in. Not being able to see the this distinction results in confusion.
Deuteronomy passages speaks TO ISRAEL AS A NATION. That was part of their Old covenant. Obedience= material blessings and earthly [not worldy] blesssings, materail prosperity aside from spiritual blessings.
But the Church is never promised any prosperity if we obey. in fact we are to expect tribulation [tribulation not the Great Tribulaton]. But this does not mean that we will not be blessed materially. According to God's soverign will he will give us or not give us. Israel was promised, they have the right to expect prosperity if they obey. We on the other hand are not promised prosperity. We leave it up to God.
This explains why Paul and the apostles remained practically poor all their lives. Though they were Israelites, they now belong to the Church. God sees them as thus.
important key in rightly dividing the Word:
Though all the Bible is written FOR me, not all of it was written TO me nor was it all written all ABOUT me.
Who is He speaking to Israel or the Church?
Ironside's point was that if you measure the apostles' situation with what was supposedly promised in Deuteronmy, they were poor.Originally posted by vince69:I will have to disagree on the part that the Apostles (Paul included) are practically poor,
1) its not in the Bible
2) they are either had been provided for by the church or run a business (tent making) like Paul, you don't find them begging on the street or going around asking people for money.
3) they live a life of contentment not proverty, for they trust in God to provide them their needs and God had been faithful.
God bless