Buddhism and Christianity
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somehow I don't think AEN knows/understand Christianity, sometimes I feel that he is interpreting the Christianity using his own belief systems.Originally posted by laoda99:I somehow think all of us here dun understand what is mystic, including Eternal
mystic to me sound abit like local taoism practices...like dang3 gi1.....like can communicate with the dead or superior being one...
thought the gospel of judas belong to the gnostics, but guess buddhists read it from a different light? -
I am not speaking from the conventional viewpoint of a Christian.Originally posted by vince69:somehow I don't think AEN knows/understand Christianity, sometimes I feel that he is interpreting the Christianity using his own belief systems.
I am speaking from the viewpoint of Christian mysticism.
If you have been following my posts you would have known.. -
im pretty sure jesus spoke to god in the bible; and not himself inside of him.. and isn't buddha teaching in the higher realms?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:"Someone who looks for me in form or seeks me in sound
is on a mistaken path and cannot see the Tathágata."
"All forms are but illusions; in seeing that all forms are illusory, then one sees the Tathagata."
- Diamond Sutra
'Being' is beyond forms. It cannot be perceived by the mind as an entity. When Buddha said 'see the Tathagatha', he is pointing to a deeper essence - to our Buddha Nature. -
??Originally posted by Ito_^:does it mean the first becoming like christ, the son of god, yet retaining human ego; and second mean becoming god? but christ is god mah, thanks to the complicated holy trinity.
No, union can only be possible when you completely relinquish your ego and submit to God.
And it is not your ego become God, but rather, let God overtake your ego. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
I wonder how true this list is, anyone can claim that so and so is a member (as long as these people are dead)
Some interesting stuff abt mystics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism
[b]Mysticism from the Greek ìõù (muo, "concealed") is the pursuit of achieving communion or identity with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, the divine, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight; and the belief that such experience is an important source of knowledge or understanding. It may involve a belief in the existence of realities beyond immediate perceptual apprehension, or a belief that true perception of the world goes beyond intellectual apprehension, or that 'beingness' is central to all perception.
Mystics generally hold that there is a deeper, more fundamental state of existence hidden beneath the appearances of day–to–day living (which may become, to the mystic, superficial or epiphenomenal). For the mystic, the hidden state is the focus, and may be perceived in any of various ways — as God, ultimate reality, a universal presence, a force or principle, psychological emancipation — and be experienced or realized directly. Such experiences are spoken of, variously, as ecstatic revelation, theosis, direct experience of the divine or of universal principles, nirvana, enlightenment, satori, samadhi, etc. They are sometimes characterized by a fading or loss of self, or a perceived interconnection with all existence, and are often accompanied by feelings of peace, joy or bliss.
The funny thing is....they have a list of mystics for each faith, even Christianity. Some of the names I never heard of
, mebbe cultic figures?
Christian mystics
Some examples of Christian mystics:
St. John the Apostle (? -101)
Clement of Alexandria (? -216)
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430)
St. Gregory I (590-604)
Saint Anselm (1033-1109)
Hugh of Saint Victor (1096–1141)
St. Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179)
Francis of Assisi (1182-1226)
Albertus Magnus (1206-1280)
Mechthild of Magdeburg (1210-1279)
St. Thomas Aquinas (1224-1275)
Angela of Foligno - (c.1248-1309) )
Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 - 1327/
Richard Rolle (c. 1290 - 1349)
St. Gregory Palamas (1296 - 1359)
St. Bridget of Sweden (1302-1373)
Julian of Norwich (1342-c.1416)
Margery Kempe (c.1373-143
Paracelsus (1493-1541)
St. Teresa of Avila (1515-1582)
St. John of the Cross (1542-1591)
Jakob Boehme (1575-1624)
Sir Thomas Browne (1605-1682)
Michael de Molinos (1628-1696)
Sarah Wight (1632-?)
Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772)
William Blake (1757-1827)
Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824)
Jakob Lorber (1800 - 1864)
Rufus Jones (1863-194
Max Heindel (1865 - 1919)
G. K. Chesterton (1874-1936) (haha...this is the one which a website says: an apostle of common sense...also become mystic liao har? )
Aiden Wilson Tozer (1897-1963)
Daniil Andreev (1906-1959)
Thomas Merton (1915-196
[/b] -
Do mystics believe the soul must leave the body so that can be liberated? (e.g. thru death)
If this is so, I have got one extreme example of mysticism....not targetted at Buddhism, but think this example should be avoided at all cost
http://www.coloradocollege.edu/dept/RE/SrSeminar03/Brundage03.htm
Flaming Lotus: Sacrifice in
Buddhist Practice
Sarah Brundage
As with many religions, Buddhism offers its practitioners the opportunity for different levels of involvement on the spiritual path towards enlightenment. This spectrum of involvement ranges from one who practices with minimal sacrifice primarily to achieve personal spiritual gain to one who sacrifices his or her life with the hope of benefiting all of humanity. Furthermore, as a person moves along this spectrum from little to great sacrifice, one also harbors a growing commitment to the spiritual welfare of all sentient beings. As the kinds of practice and sacrifice are explained for different levels of involvement in the religion, it will become clear that the relative commitment to help others directly correlates to the stage of practice and sacrifice. [color=brown]Additionally, an intriguing comparison will be made between these concepts within Buddhism and very similar concepts with the Jewish tradition of mystical or contemplative death.....[/color] -
Jesus spoke from his union with God which is beyond comprehension. From the mystics viewpoint Jesus has already completely relinquished all his ego and let God overtake him.Originally posted by Ito_^:im pretty sure jesus spoke to god in the bible; and not himself inside of him.. and isn't buddha teaching in the higher realms?
'and isn't buddha teaching in the higher realms?'
Don't get you. What are you asking? -
I think AEN is speaking from the stand of Buddhism mysticism.....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I am not speaking from the conventional viewpoint of a Christian.
I am speaking from the viewpoint of Christian mysticism.
If you have been following my posts you would have known.. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
No. That is one part I do not agree with Gospel of Judas documentary - that Jesus died because of that particular reason. I believe Jesus died for another reason. A mystic is beyond bondage by his body even during life.
Do mystics believe the soul must leave the body so that can be liberated? (e.g. thru death) -
Christian mysticism.Originally posted by laoda99:I think AEN is speaking from the stand of Buddhism mysticism.....
Buddhists dont really speak like that.. -
So in ur view, why did Jesus diedOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:No. That is one part I do not agree with Gospel of Judas documentary - that Jesus died because of that particular reason. I believe Jesus died for another reason. A mystic is beyond bondage by his body even during life.
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no meh? U mean Buddhism dun have mysticism? Tibetan Buddhism look very "mystic" to me...can levitate in the air somemore....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Christian mysticism.
Buddhists dont really speak like that.. -
To show us the way and induce stigmata.Originally posted by laoda99:So in ur view, why did Jesus died -
The different between the two of us,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I am not speaking from the conventional viewpoint of a Christian.
I am speaking from the viewpoint of Christian mysticism.
If you have been following my posts you would have known..
you says Mystic Christian is another form of christian teaching.
my view is that they are not even christian teaching at all (at best can only call them rojak anything also can mix type)
Quoting the Bible does not means its christian teaching if the interpretation is not inline with what the Bible is saying. -
u mean the "stigmata" as in catholic context? why must induce stigmata?...bery occultic to me.....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:To show us the way and induce stigmata.
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I think he is refering to the Buddhist way, just setting an example to follow.Originally posted by laoda99:u mean the "stigmata" as in catholic context? very occultic to me..... -
doesn't dat somehow prove that buddha is still an individual? and not one of a great mass of unspeakable reality?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Jesus spoke from his union with God which is beyond comprehension. From the mystics viewpoint Jesus has already completely relinquished all his ego and let God overtake him.
'and isn't buddha teaching in the higher realms?'
Don't get you. What are you asking?
anyways.. when jesus spoke to god before he was arrested by the rome dudes, he was with his own personality and individuality. this was proven when he was crucified, he cried out to god for help and questioned his method even for a spilt second. it proves he is still human at that point; his ego exists. -
"The cross is a torture instrument. It stands for the most extreme suffering, limitation and helplessness a human being can encounter. Then suddenly that human being surrenders, suffers willingly, consciously, expressed through the words 'Not my will but Thy will be done.' At that moment, the cross, the torture instrument, shows its hidden face: it is also a sacred symbol, a symbol for the divine.
That which seemed to deny the existence of any transcendental dimension to life, through surrender becomes and opening into that dimension'
- Eckhart Tolle -
I have a question, if everyone can become a mystic and join "god" his own way (becoz he can communicate direct to "god"), then why do they need mystical "Jesus" to show them the way? Can just bypass mystical "Jesus" mah....Originally posted by vince69:I think he is refering to the Buddhist way, just setting an example to follow. -
if mystisim teaches that the traditional way of churches, etc, is incorrect, isn't it dualism itself?Originally posted by vince69:The different between the two of us,
you says Mystic Christian is another form of christian teaching.
my view is that they are not even christian teaching at all (at best can only call them rojak anything also can mix type)
Quoting the Bible does not means its christian teaching if the interpretation is not inline with what the Bible is saying.
but i dun think he meant this right? in fact, traditional religion is not incorrect..? -
Originally posted by Ito_^:
Still don't get you.
doesn't dat somehow prove that buddha is still an individual? and not one of a great mass of unspeakable reality?
Buddha is fully human, but also 'fully divine' - or rather, 'fully enlightened'.anyways.. when jesus spoke to god before he was arrested by the rome dudes, he was with his own personality and individuality. this was proven when he was crucified, he cried out to god for help and questioned his method even for a spilt second. it proves he is still human at that point; his ego exists.
Yes - but after he surrendered, at that point, the Cross becomes a symbol of the divine.
Wait - I didn't type the Eckhart Tolle's part after reading your message - what a conincidence. -
mystics believe must be tortured than can see the light?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:"The cross is a torture instrument. It stands for the most extreme suffering, limitation and helplessness a human being can encounter. Then suddenly that human being surrenders, suffers willingly, consciously, expressed through the words 'Not my will but Thy will be done.' At that moment, the cross, the torture instrument, shows its hidden face: it is also a sacred symbol, a symbol for the divine.
That which seemed to deny the existence of any transcendental dimension to life, through surrender becomes and opening into that dimension'
- Eckhart Tolle -
the first one is, aim to become like Christ, fully human, yet fully divine (ie. god)Originally posted by Ito_^:does it mean the first becoming like christ, the son of god, yet retaining human ego; and second mean becoming god? but christ is god mah, thanks to the complicated holy trinity.
the second is, Christ had become god, like Christ, human can also become god.
any diffferent in meaning other than the way its being phrase? -
Not incorrect. It just is. In the eyes of the mystic he holds no discriminations.Originally posted by Ito_^:if mystisim teaches that the traditional way of churches, etc, is incorrect, isn't it dualism itself?
but i dun think he meant this right? in fact, traditional religion is not incorrect..?
However he sees what the other doesn't see. He is in union with God. -
Mystics believe that in whatever situations, even the most horrible situation, once you surrender to God, that torture instrument will become the symbol of the divine. And Jesus showed us very clearly how it can be done.Originally posted by laoda99:mystics believe must be tortured than can see the light?